Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: Western Suze
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 12:21 PM

"Genial" Jim Lloyd again being eased out of his Folk On Two slot

Lloyd wasn't eased out. He hung on well past his broadcast-by date because his wife Frances Line was the Controller of Radio 2. When she retired, he graciously handed in the golden tankard as well. Then Ralph McTell presented it for few months while they put it out to tender. Let's just say he wasn't a natural broadcaster.

Several miles up this thread (17 Oct 05:04 pm) I detailed what happened next, which drew no comment. Still true though.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: Western Suze
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 12:25 PM

I think the BBC has a general dislike of traditional music, what started out as Folk On 2 has been gradually watered down over the years

Yes, it was so much better when it was The Yetties, Isla St Clair and Johnny Silvo every week. Hardcore traddy stuff.

How easily we forget!

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: GUEST,Geoff Woolfe
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 12:25 PM

The problem with Radio 2 is that it will always seems to be the bland leading the bland. Some weeks I've listened to MH all the way through especially when he has an interesting guest,but as often as not I switch off when he plays the usual 'easy listening' folk... you know who I mean!
How often is real 'music of the people' aired on the radio?
Late Junction has been marginalised to the insomniacs slot. And you have to be lucky to get any folk music on regional radio.
As for me - I'm still angry because Dick Barton Special Agent was taken off and replaced by The Archers....

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 01:18 PM

So Western Suze, are you suggesting that those you mention are/were, not folk singers?
I would also be interested to know, why you expected an all traditional programme. It was never its remit as far as I know.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: GUEST,raymond greenoaken
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 01:21 PM

Western Suze - you've ruined my story arc. Why should we let facts get in the way of a good argument?

But as for Genial Jim being past his broadcast-by date: if you could get beyond his pipe-and-slippers cosiness and fondness for the Yetties, (whom he managed for a while, such was his fondness), you might be forced to admit that he was head and shoulders above the rag-tag assortment of part-timers that followed him in that slot over the decades. With Jim there was no grisly hyperbole, no clunking repetitiveness, no "When I was in Clutterbuck's Monkey Stranglers with Bernard Wrigley" self-promotion, no "What was I going to say next?" (J Kirkpatrick, j'accuse! JK is of course another hilarious live performer.), just smooth-as-the-Medway quiet professionalism. Mark Radcliffe, there's your plimsoll line - but chuck in a few good jokes, there's a good chap.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 01:53 PM

Support Mike,

sign the petition, it wont stop the Beeb but it will give a shout out for folk and show those of us who have enjoyed the show that we still like, and some of us love, Mike:

http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/the-bbc-reinstate-mike-harding-to-his-bbc-radio-2-weekly-folk-show-2

Les

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: GUEST,Harry Basnett.
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 03:01 PM

Really only listen to 6 Music these days...nice on there to hear folk music mixed in with other genres rather than just being shoved onto a one hour show which most people won't listen to. Might actually give Folk on 2 a try again when Mark's presenting it.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 03:02 PM

Is Mark Radliffe that bumbling bloke who intersperses ever sentence he utters with liberal doses of "errrr-umm, errrr-umm"? If so, God help us. At least MH actually knows something about the music he presents.

Good to see Diane back, BTW. Hope you're well now?

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: johncharles
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 03:12 PM

Geoff, Dick barton is on radio 4extra at 8 45pm tonight
john

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: Nick
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 05:50 PM

So much about the people so little about the music.

It's been mentioned in about 10% of posts maximum.

Surely it will either be a good show which we will isten to or not. I think I've listened to it twice in my life on the way to play live music on a wednesday so can neither get upset about Mike Harding's departure (I'm sure he is a good person and did a good job) or excited about Mark Radcliffe (I'm sure he is a good person etc etc)

If he plays music that people enjoy and he has a good presenting persona then the programme will work.

If not go somewhere else. Plenty of choice.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: Nick
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 06:02 PM

So did 860000 people listen to his show every week? That's very impressive.

It seems very high to me

The 7.17m figure for Chris Moyles was similarly interesting.

Figures are often not what they seem - mostly because there are not enough people in this country

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: Western Suze
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 06:58 PM

So Western Suze, are you suggesting that those you mention are/were, not folk singers?
I would also be interested to know, why you expected an all traditional programme. It was never its remit as far as I know.

I'm not suggesting anything. I was merely commenting on a previous poster's suggestion that Folk On 2 was more traditional and has been watered down ever since. I disagree. It has always been MOR cosy bland, At one time it was called Country Meets Folk (known out here in the stick as "Country Swamps Folk").

I'm not expecting much change either. It will continue the bland easy listening format designed to not frighten that horse which nobody has heard sing. The Krusby quotient should stay constant. Its Radio 2, for heaven's sake, that's what they do. The only thing I hope is that we won't have to put up with his pal Barbara Dickson at the bloody folk awards any more, assuming they're not next for the chop, which has to be on the cards.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 20 Oct 12 - 05:47 AM

"Figures are often not what they seem - mostly because there are not enough people in this country"

Online, podcasts and iPlayer - listeners don't have to be in this country

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: GUEST,Guest - Jan Cole
Date: 20 Oct 12 - 05:20 PM

Forgive me. Although interested in the topic, I got bored of reading this thread. I know several of the contributors and I know what age group they fall into. The postings all seemed to reference back and I saw very little regard for the future. Our 14 year old daughter loves folk music. She has grown up attending workshops at Sidmouth led by the likes of Jackie Oates, Emily Portman, Jim Causely. These are the people who gave folk music a relevance to her. She says we cannot ever stop going to Sidmouth - it is the centre of her universe and she adores her evenings in the Bulverton. She would never listen to Mike Harding - she has built her knowledge of folk music from her father and attending folk festivals since she was a babe in arms. (She learnt Parting Glass from Ed Sheeran's CD) The tradition will not stand still - there are kids out there loving the genre. I doubt she would ever listen to a folk radio show - she would use you tube or google to find out more about the artists she loves. In reality, who takes on the show may well become academic. It really is not how the world works now. Look at how many festivals there are, some that blend genres and do so much to reach out to new audiences. Your debate should not just reference your own desires, but should consider the wider and future audience. We ahould, for example, be considering Jon Boden for the job - he is knowlegeable and charismatic and would pull in a very wide audience.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: GUEST,Richard Tree
Date: 20 Oct 12 - 06:22 PM

As a presenter of a weekly Folk programme on Hospital Radio Lynn for almost 30 years I must say I am stunned and sickened by the shitty way Mike has been treated by those bloody "suits " upstairs in the Beeb.

I fully understand and respect that he might not be everyones cup of tea as a presenter,however he has undeniably done a huge amount of positive work to broaden the appeal of folk - just look at the huge increase in his listening figures for a start!

We seem to have been here before too - FOLKWAVES?

As for "mumbling" Mark Radcliffe   jeez!

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 21 Oct 12 - 05:10 AM

Geof the Duck - I liked the radio programme that came from the folk clubs better too. Often the floor singers out sung any of the main guests ( as they still do ). The present programme is just about people who have made Cds - no jamming or variation. Perhaps real folk doesn't lend itself to tinned radio.
My choice of presenter would be Jim Causley - I heard him as a compare at whitby and he made a very fine one.
FloraG

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: theleveller
Date: 21 Oct 12 - 07:23 AM

"Then Ralph McTell presented it for few months while they put it out to tender. Let's just say he wasn't a natural broadcaster. "

I think Ralph was by far the best presenter of the programme I've heard - I still have dozens of recordings of the show on cassette. A brilliant, eclectic mix of music that introduced me to people I'd never heard before. I listened to Mike Harding for a while then gave up. As for the idea of an all-traditional programme - that fills me with horror and would, i suspect, not last beyond a couple of weeks. When are the traddies going to get it into their heads that folk music is far, far wider than just traditional music.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Oct 12 - 07:24 AM

"Our 14 year old daughter loves folk music. She has grown up attending workshops at Sidmouth led by the likes of Jackie Oates, Emily Portman, Jim Causely. These are the people who gave folk music a relevance to her. She says we cannot ever stop going to Sidmouth - it is the centre of her universe and she adores her evenings in the Bulverton. She would never listen to Mike Harding - she has built her knowledge of folk music from her father and attending folk festivals since she was a babe in arms. (She learnt Parting Glass from Ed Sheeran's CD)"

One thing you overlook, though, is how the likes of Jackie Oates, Emily Portman and Jim Causley actually get to the position of playing those festivals in the first place. Or how a festival such as Sidmouth publicises itself. Or how Ed Sheeran gets to make a CD. Or how your daughter even knows who to look for on youTube. Whether she uses radio or not, the musicians she discovers at Sidmouth and on YouTube certainly do (and the organisers of Sidmouth) certainly do. She's a beneficiary of radio and other media without realizing it.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 21 Oct 12 - 07:27 AM

"As for the idea of an all-traditional programme - that fills me with horror and would, i suspect, not last beyond a couple of weeks. When are the traddies going to get it into their heads that folk music is far, far wider than just traditional music."

But, er, Mike Harding pretty much DID play an all-traditional programme! He just played the soft end of it. I'd say 95% of his show was traditional. And the exceptions were generally ones by traditional performers (eg Kate Rusby, Eliza Carthy etc)

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: theleveller
Date: 21 Oct 12 - 07:56 AM

Really? I find that hard to believe.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 21 Oct 12 - 08:11 AM

Well, whether you like the music or the person or not, Mike has been treated in an appalling manner by that arsehole at the BBC. For the most part BBC Radio 2 is shitty anyway.

I was treated worse by Binder Hamlyn a former large firm of Chartered Accountants after 23 years, and similarly by Maas International - a Dutch owned international vending company after 10 years, and it is happening again!

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: Continuity Jones
Date: 21 Oct 12 - 08:24 AM

In a fit of 10 minutes of boredom, here's the music from two recent Mike Harding shows. Maybe unlucky to have Bellowhead & Kate Rusby on them (in that they fit the image of his show rather well).


The Saw Doctors The Joyce Country Ceili Band

Pilgrims' Way Tarry Trousers

Heidi Talbot Grace Darling

Bellowhead 10,000 Miles Away

Bellowhead What's the Life of a Man?


Bellowhead Lillibulero

Kathleen MacInnes Tanga Binn Mo Mhathair


Stephanie Hladowski & C Joynes The Dark Eyed Sailor

Kate Rusby with Paul Weller

Bob Dylan Early Roman Kings

Rory McLeod Love Like a Rock

Ralph McTell Don't Think Twice It's Alright

The Shee Sugarwine

Cahalen Morrison & Eli West Stone to Sand

Henry Creaney Swallows Tail/Heather Breeze

Kate Rusby with Chris Thile Awkward Annie

Kate Rusby with Joe Rusby & Jerry Douglas The Good Man

Kate Rusby with Jim Causley I Courted a Sailor

Whapweasel The Hexhamshire Lass

Faustus The Hostesses Daughter

The Moulettes Uca's Dance

Dick Miles Concertina Tina and her Yellow Pashamina

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: Leadfingers
Date: 21 Oct 12 - 08:32 AM

I recall some Folk Dance club friends who decided they would start a Folk SONG Club - It would ONLY feature English Traditional songs - Then they realised that between them they would run out of songs halfway through the first evening , so they said only BRITISH traditional songs - that would have just about got them through til closing time , so they said " OK - ALL Traditional songs , which added NOTHING to their list .
Does that sound at all familiar ? An ALL traditional Folk Programme would NOT work , so lets have a good mix , but for God's sake , not JUST Bloody Pop Folk !!

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: Will Fly
Date: 21 Oct 12 - 11:00 AM

An ALL traditional Folk Programme would NOT work

Well, perhaps it would, Terry, because if you change the phrase 'Traditional SONGS' to 'Traditional SONGS and TUNES', there's surely enough in the repertoire to last for some considerable time. My own ceilidh band members on their own could offer several hours-worth...

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 21 Oct 12 - 04:44 PM

he was a bit predictable (kate rusby right here in the studio for a right old natter-but ok) the problem is there just isn't enough time for folk on bbc 2. for that try radio scotland - where there are about 6 hours a week - and tonight at 10pm 'another country' and the late night weekday show has loads of good stuff. there are some excellent shows on the radio-jarvis cocker on radio 6 (sun 4-6) my current favourite. much as i love folk and country i don't want to listen to radio that only plays exactly what i know and like -that's what my records are for. mark radcliffe a good choice, not his fault that the bbc treated mh badly.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: GUEST,Matt
Date: 04 Jan 13 - 03:35 PM

Now's your chance to listen for yourself

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01pgrp0

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 04 Jan 13 - 06:53 PM

Then they realised that between them they would run out of songs halfway through the first evening

Don't be daft. My 52 Folk Songs project, recently completed, eventually saw me singing and recording 99 traditional songs; a few of those were Irish and one or two American, but a good 90 of the 99 were British & most of those English. I learned a few of them for the recording, but equally there are several songs I know that got left out; I reckon I've 'got' at least 60 English traditional songs. (Mind you, I have been doing this for a while - I started singing at folk clubs back in 2003.) Put me in a room with five or six folkies with 40+ traditional songs each, and we won't start to repeat ourselves for a good long time.

Sorry for the slight thread derail, but that perception that English folk song consists of Thousands or more, No John No and Glorious Ale really bugs me - it's totally unfounded, and I think it deters a lot of people from exploring the ocean of old songs that's out there. A two-hour radio programme devoted to traditional songs from England (and Scotland) would be superb. (And they could always lighten the mood with a few tunes.)

theleveller - I don't know why you care what 'traddies' (like me) think. People like me - who turned to traditional songs because of how different they are from the singer-songwriter mainstream - are a tiny and basically voiceless minority; we're never going to determine who gets awards or airplay. When are the anti-traddies going to get it into their heads that you've won?

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Jan 13 - 03:51 AM

Well if the new blokes pretty good and the old bloke was all right - why don't they give them both an hour? Two hours of folk music a week would hardly be excessive.

Last night, I was was feeling sad and pissed off. ( I had a biopsy on my tongue on Thursday - a bit painful - and my best guitar has started making buzzing sounds - sod!) So there I am disconsolately channel hopping on Sky.

And there are all these mad gits going on about God. Each of them has their own TV channel. Why isn't there a channel for the mad gits of folk music?

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 05 Jan 13 - 04:52 AM

Pity it's not on Radio 3, then at least we could listen to it in HD stream quality.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 05 Jan 13 - 05:09 AM

Is MR aware that he is as likely to be replaced at short notice as MH. Would we prefer a variety of presenters?
FloraG

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: SunrayFC
Date: 05 Jan 13 - 07:49 AM

A breath of fresh air.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jan 13 - 03:35 PM

well I'm going to miss the Mike Harding show. Mark is ok but Mike did the show to such a high standed it was always the hour in the week i stoped all elses and sat and listend to radio 2..........Well Done Mike.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: Uncle Tone
Date: 08 Jan 13 - 04:05 PM

In general terms this was all about a programme controller trying to make a name for himself by fixing something that wasn't broken.

It's happened many times before, especially in commercial radio.

Tone
ex- Chiltern Radio Specialist Music Presenter

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: GUEST,Folknacious
Date: 09 Jan 13 - 10:48 AM

In the end it's simply down to whether you like the presenter's style, since they both played exactly the same fairly narrow range of music. I'm sure it'll only be a matter of weeks before MR makes a few gaffes like MH did (which one's Sonny and which one's Brownie, Mike? And was Shawn Colvin really a bloke?). Then the anti-MR nitpickers will have a field day.

There is more interesting music to be found elsewhere on the radio (Late Junction for example) and even more so on the web. Hopefully Harding will get more interesting on his podcast now free of Radio 2 M.O.R. requirements. I'm about to download the latest Froots Radio, which, according to the blurb "goes from Jumbo Brightwell to the Dancing Did via the Comoros Islands". I don't expect to hear any of those on Radio 2 any day soon.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: GUEST,geoffwoolfe
Date: 09 Jan 13 - 03:06 PM

Could someone please calculate the ratio on MRs show between music and chat? No I mean SHOUTING and a little bit of music.
The new format is probably better than the old - but being old maybe it's not meant for me!
At least we got Pete Coe tonight....
Mind you I can shout as good as him - but it's musical shouting when I sing with Bristol Shantymen.......

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: Betsy
Date: 09 Jan 13 - 07:09 PM

I was late coming to the thread and that's been a good thing. Plenty of opinions for me to read ,for,against and indifferent. I am saddened by the (apparently )ruthless departure of Mike - but the world moves on.
I don't know Nick Dow and why he keeps beating himself up regarding apostrophes , but Nick, if you ARE still reading this thread, supercedes (as you have spelt it earlier) is actually spelt supersedes. Something to do with the Latin verb seder = to carry.
I suppose some could take issue with spelt / spelled , anyway what the fuck ? supersede is one of those words I used for many years - written as Nick did, until someone pointed it out to me. Mea Culpa etc...
Otherwise keep contributing Nick - I enjoy reading your well-constructed comments (apostrophe or spelling mistakes or not).
Yours (tongue in cheek)
Betsy

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: paul vaughan
Date: 09 Jan 13 - 08:17 PM

I have only scanned throught this thread,so I apologise in advance if this has already been covered. It seems to me that, given that there appears to be no single candidate that everybody agrees on, one answer would be to have a series of guest presenters. There are many people qualified to host such a show but may, for whatever reason be disinclined or unable to take on the role on a permanent basis. Maybe this would be a way of keeping the show fresh and offer a varied approach?
Any thoughts?

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jan 13 - 05:41 AM

2nd episode was a bit lackluster tho

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: GUEST,Matt
Date: 12 Jan 13 - 04:46 PM

We should be reet now weve Mikes podcast from his website and Mark R.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: GUEST,Littleborough Steven
Date: 20 Jan 13 - 05:17 AM

Mike Harding got the boot because he was too boring. I heard it from the "top" - MR was brought in to inject some new life into a dulling show - it's as simple as that. The manner in which he was given his notice raised a few curious eyebrows, although to be given twelve weeks advance warning that your one hour long weekly show is ending (broadcast, incidentally, through an ISDN link from his house in Ireland) is a lot more than some people get these days. The music scene has always changed and evolved. Progress?