BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 26 Nov 12 - 07:28 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Gaza_Strip_barrier

This is well worth a look, destroying as it does, Keith's arguments re Israeli control of Gaza.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 26 Nov 12 - 07:13 AM

"- chemical warfare
That is a blatant lie. Israel has never used chemical weapons."

Why don't you ask the men who were splattered with burning phosphorus whether they accept that, or the mother of a child whose skin is on fire?

No matter what weasel words are used to cover up those injured and killed, the use of white phosphorus anywhere near civilians is an abomination.

If it isn't, de facto, a crime against humanity, it bloody well should be, and any government sanctioning its use should be bloody ashamed.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 26 Nov 12 - 07:03 AM

"Why do you tell lies to demonize Jews Don?"

You are really starting to piss me off mate.

I have been talking non stop about the Israei government and its bully boy so-called "defence" force.

The only person who keeps bring Jews into the argument is you, our resident Arab hater.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 26 Nov 12 - 06:59 AM

"Perhaps you deny the Nazis' racist lies because you regard them as accurate?"

Don't you dare to ascribe your stinking prejudice to me, you lying bastard.

I said exactly what I meant.

Hitler invented "Jewish" crimes in order to frighten the German population into giving up their rights and freedoms for the spurious security he offered, which allowed the Nazis to achieve power "legally" (and I use that word in its loosest sense).

However, when the "final solution" was enacted there was no further need for subterfuge, and he simply rounded up all that could be discovered, throughout occupied territories.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Nov 12 - 04:32 AM

Settlements - not in Gaza but on other Arab land.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_settlement



Settler oppression of Arabs
http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/eu-looks-to-compile-blacklist-barring-entry-to-known-violent-israeli-settlers.premium-1.480497


Israel's "Berlin wall"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Nov 12 - 04:26 AM

For heaven's sake - will you Zionists not listen even to David ben Gurion? "We took their land". What part of that do you not understand?


"If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement
with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country.
It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest
them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti-Semitism,
the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault?

They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their
country. Why would they accept that?"

-- David Ben Gurion.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Nov 12 - 04:01 AM

Shatila - Sabra -
I do not accuse you of making these massacres up, but they were carried out by Lebanese militias and Israel's role is disputed.
We have discussed this endlessly and it was 30 years ago!
malnutrition
Found in all countries and most towns.
- chemical warfare
That is a blatant lie. Israel has never used chemical weapons.
The problem is your personal definition.-
the deliberate destruction of built up areas,
Only those built up areas where Hamas fights from.
the intended plan to bring the people of Gaza to the point of starvation....
Yes. That is a lie.
even the reported death and injury figures in the recent attacks;
I only pointed out that Hamas' figures had not been confirmed.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Nov 12 - 03:43 AM

"Why can't your side discuss it without making stuff up?"
In all your claim of "lies" as a response to universally accepted evidence from the U.N., Amnesty International, and reports from relief and news agencies all over the world, you have not offered on single scrap of evidence to back up your outrageous claims.
Shatila - Sabra - malnutrition - chemical warfare - the deliberate destruction of built up areas, the intended plan to bring the people of Gaza to the point of starvation.... even the reported death and injury figures in the recent attacks; all inventions of who - a world full of anti-Semites, or what?
You are a fanatic - fortunately you are a extremely stupid and inept fanatic and so, very easy to spot - keep up the good work.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 25 Nov 12 - 11:02 AM

Why can't your side discuss it without making stuff up?

The Israelis have restrictions on how much food and medical supplies they will allow into Gaza

It is a lie Stringsinger.
You must know that.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Stringsinger
Date: 25 Nov 12 - 10:19 AM

Jews are not being demonized. Zionist propaganda is. The point is that we have a potential Stockholm Syndrome when the Likud Government starts acting like Zionazis.

There are many Jews world wide who decry Israel's application of Zionism, some are rabbis and others with Jewish heritage such as Naomi Klein, Norman Finkelstein, Goldstone (of the Goldstone report), Noam Chomsky who actually knows more about Judaism than anyone here, and Uri Avnery.

As I have stated before, falling on deaf ears to the erstwhile Israeli supporters here,David ben Gurion would be embarrassed to see what Zionism has become. He at least was honest enough to say that "we took their land" and was sensitive to this issue.

The lies are coming from the supporters of Israeli aggression and occupation.
In spite of the legitimate reality on the ground in Palestine, a tenacious, almost religious fervor takes hold of these supporters and no other facts are allowed into the discussion except the fictions they endorse.

Fortunately, there are Israelis who really care about the atrocities their country is committing despite that fact that many of done jail time, such as Uri Avnery and members of Gush Shalom, in a so-called democratic country which is becoming a theocracy day by day.

It is common knowledge that Hamas employs rocketry which kills practically no Israelis in proportion to the many thousands of Palestinians which have died, many women and children at the hands of the Israeli military.

There is no legitimate defense of the use of rocketry but this would cease when and if Israel decides to enter into a real peace negotiation and not the facade that they use to appropriate more land, expansion, and military buildup.



J

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 25 Nov 12 - 05:04 AM

Did you believe your own lies about the Marmara Don?
Why do you tell lies to demonize Jews Don?

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 25 Nov 12 - 04:58 AM

Perhaps you deny the Nazis' racist lies because you regard them as accurate?

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 25 Nov 12 - 04:42 AM

So you are saying that the Nazis did not blame the Jews for all Germany's and Europe's problems?
And you call me a racist!

I am prepared to criticise Israel and have done, but like MtheGM I think they have done their best with Gaza and Hamas is to blame for the suffering.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 07:04 PM

"Hitler and the Nazis never admitted that they rounded up Jews just because they were Jews.
They invented crimes that Jews were responsible for to justify it."

NO! They DIDN'T!

They rounded up Jews in all occupied Europe without giving any reason at all.

They used invented Jewish crimes in order to achieve power.

The "Final Solution" was entirely without any such claims. They weren't needed since the German nation was already convinced, in the main.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 05:26 PM

"Israel is not the evil monster you like to believe it to be.
Hamas actually is."

You are a genuinely devious a******e.

I claim both sides must accept blame, you say I'm anti Israel.

Yet you accept NO criticism of Israel whatever. You are definitely anti Palestine, anti Gaza and anti anybody who disagrees, you racist.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 05:07 PM

your moronic friend....Jim Carroll.
You are too hard on yourself Jim.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 03:10 PM

"I fear you are once more revealing yourself as a dab hand at making yourself look silly"
More empty evasion Mike - looks like we'll have to make up our own minds which side you're on - those of us who haven't already reached a conclusions, that is.
As for your moronic friend.......
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 12:49 PM

Yes lies Jim.
Your "Amnesty" quote was not on any Amnesty site and must be years out of date.
Likewise your Wiki piece about a previous conflict.

the Israelis are still forbidding essential agricultural material which prevents Palestinians from growing their own food to feed themselves and make a living.
There is another lie.

Also on their list are building materials which are necessary to rebuild the homes destroyed by indiscriminate Israeli attacks on built-up areas.
Not true Jim.
Building materials are allowed in under aid agency supervision.
It is just not given to Hamas to make bomb proof missile stores with.
Malnutrition due to food shortages, directly identified to the blockade by the UN and Amnesty, is present in 10% of Palestinian children.
AND ANOTHER ONE!
Remember that I showed aid agencies EXPORTING SURPLUS FOOD from Gaza by the truckload.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 12:31 PM

Sorry, Jim: you have really lost me now. I fear you are once more revealing yourself as a dab hand at making yourself look silly. Why do you keep doing it,, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 12:22 PM

http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2012/11/23/roy/sctFniw6Wn2n9nTdxZ91RJ/story.html

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 12:16 PM

"That is a lie"
And still more "lies"!!!
From Amnesty International:
Israel claims that the ongoing blockade of Gaza, in force since June 2007, is a response to the indiscriminate rocket attacks launched from Gaza into southern Israel by Palestinian armed groups. The reality is that the blockade does not target armed groups but rather punishes Gaza's entire population by restricting the entry of food, medical supplies, educational equipment and building materials.
The blockade constitutes collective punishment under international law and must be lifted immediately. As the occupying power, Israel has a duty under international law to ensure the welfare of Gaza's inhabitants, including their rights to health, education, food and adequate housing.
During Operation "Cast Lead", from 27 December 2008 to 18 January 2009,13 Israelis were killed, including three civilians in southern Israel, where dozens more were injured in indiscriminate rocket attacks by Palestinian armed groups. In Gaza, Israeli attacks damaged or destroyed civilian buildings and infrastructure, including hospitals and schools, the water and electricity systems. Thousands of Palestinian homes were destroyed or severely damaged. An estimated 280 of the 641 schools in Gaza were damaged and 18 were destroyed. More than half of Gaza's population is under the age of 18 and the disruption to their education, due to the damage caused during Operation "Cast Lead" and as a result of the continuing Israeli boycott, is having a devastating impact
Hospitals have also been badly affected by the military offensive and the blockade. Trucks of medical aid provided by the World Health Organization have been repeatedly refused entry to Gaza without explanation by Israeli officials. Patients with serious medical conditions that cannot be treated in Gaza continue to be prevented or delayed from leaving Gaza by the Israeli authorities - since the closure of crossings leading into and out of Gaza, patients have been made to apply for permits, but these permits are frequently denied. On 1 November 2009, Samir al-Nadim, a father of three children, died after his exit from Gaza for a heart operation was delayed
http://www.alternativeinsight.com/Gaza_War_Legacy.html

An initial survey conducted by the UNDP estimates that 14,000 homes, 68 government buildings, and 31 non-governmental organization offices (NGOs) were either totally or partially damaged. As a result, an estimated 600,000 tonnes of concrete rubble will need to be removed.[21] Since 2007, construction material have not permitted entry into Gaza, adversely affecting UN projects, in particular UNRWA and UNDP which were forced to suspend more than $100 million in construction projects due to lack of materials.[29] Another UNDP rapid damage assessment of 170 out of the 407 government and private schools in the Gaza strip found that ten schools were severely damaged, and that 160 government and ten private schools were partially damaged during the Israeli military operation. Eight kindergartens were severely damaged and 60 were partially damaged. The UN humanitarian office stated that repairing such schools remains an urgent priority. Ten UNICEF tents were brought to Gaza to be used as learning spaces in the most damage-stricken areas.[20]The Israeli Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories has confirmed that there is as yet no intention to revise the policy prohibiting clearance of reconstruction materials which would enable aid agencies working in Gaza to transition to rehabilitation and reconstruction.[26]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_the_Gaza_War

http://middleeast.about.com/od/usmideastpolicy/qt/congressional-letter-gaza-siege.htm

http://www.cjpmo.org/DisplayDocument.aspx?DocumentID=878

"but what the hell has Cambridge got to do with it"
Nothing at all Mike, put in as a reference to your childish name -calling, nothing more, but it's obviously given you the excuse not to pass an opinion on Israel's targetting of civilians - glad to have been of assistance
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 12:00 PM

Sorry, Jim. I know it isn't the main point and I should probably let it lie; but what the hell has Cambridge got to do with it, however rhetorical a trope, if not as a bit of chippiness? I genuinely cannot get your point as to how it relates to your perceiving me as 'wanting it both ways' ~~ see my response to Steve about judging each case on its merits. The Gaza/Hamas situation really does seem to me in a different category from the olive-groves, fences, and all the other disgusting Israeli goings-on that you [& I] take such justified exception to. I regard this as an attempt to arrive at a judgment on this precise aspect of the situation, rather that an inconsistency. You don't have to agree with this assessment, but try to recognise it for what it is ~~ & leave Cambridge out of it: I can't help having been there, & see no reason to be in any way ashamed of or apologetic for it -- it's some sort of unworthy 'ism' on your part, hosoever you try to laugh it off as 'rhetorical'. & if it isn't chippy-shoulderism, then it's something that ill befits your intelligence and your much-vaunted tolerance.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 11:46 AM

"Chip-on-shoulderism' is what I should call it.."
Avoiding telling us which side you are on, I call it Mike.
Never mind - it was a rhetorical question.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 10:08 AM

The Israelis have restrictions on how much food and medical supplies they will allow into Gaza,
That is a lie Stringsinger.

The aid agencies that you mention Keith are a farce. The real aid agencies such as the Marvi Marmara
That is just funny and makes you look stupid.
It was a UN agency exporting the food.
The Marmara was a one-off stunt.
It carried no food, and no medical supplies that were actually in short supply like cancer drugs.
It did carry quite a lot of out of date Tamiflu that was not wanted by anyone.
The Gazans left it uncollected at the border for two weeks until the embarrassed Turks begged them to take it.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Stringsinger
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 10:02 AM

Here's an artical that articulates the complete phoniness of the Zionist cause.
1. The Israelis aren't interested in peace but in land grabs.
2. There is purposeless on Israel's attack on Gaza.
3. The idea that Israel is trying to defend itself by aggression is specious.
4.   40% of Gazans are refugees from pre-1948 Palestine lived there for millenia.
5. Zionists expelled Gazans in 1948.
6. How can Israel be a war with a tiny community of 1.7 million people?
7. Many of the innocent Gazans are minors and couldn't vote for Hamas.
8. Israel is one of the most heavily armed with modern weaponry in the world.
9. Ahmad Jabari tried to negotiate peace talks but was killed for his effort.
10. The BDS (boycott, disinvestment and sanctions) will hurt Israel.

10 myths about Israel

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Stringsinger
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 07:56 AM

Sharon: monster

US partisan backing of Israel

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Stringsinger
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 07:48 AM

The Israelis have restrictions on how much food and medical supplies they will allow into Gaza, since they are punishing Palestinians for voting democratically for Hamas.

The aid agencies that you mention Keith are a farce. The real aid agencies such as the Marvi Marmara and other humanitarian attempts to really address the needs of the Palestinian people such as medication, food, and other basic staples are being ignored and suppressed by the brutal occupation.

Here are some more reality checks for you.

Health crises and crimes

a href="http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/11/20/israel-palestine-what-is-the-u-s-national-interest/">US partisan backing of Israel

US partisan backing of Israe">Gilad Sharon: monster

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 06:35 AM

the Israelis are still forbidding essential agricultural material which prevents Palestinians from growing their own food to feed themselves and make a living.
There is another one!

Also on their list are building materials which are necessary to rebuild the homes destroyed by indiscriminate Israeli attacks on built-up areas.
Not true Jim.
Building materials are allowed in under aid agency supervision.
It is just not given to Hamas to make bomb proof missile stores with.
Malnutrition due to food shortages, directly identified to the blockade by the UN and Amnesty, is present in 10% of Palestinian children.
AND ANOTHER ONE!
Remember that I showed aid agencies EXPORTING SURPLUS FOOD from Gaza by the truckload.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 06:28 AM

Hitler and the Nazis never admitted that they rounded up Jews just because they were Jews.
They invented crimes that Jews were responsible for to justify it.

Likewise Hamas claims it only kills Jews because of supposed crimes in the West Bank but, as their Covenant reveals, they are just dedicated to killing Jews.

People here claim that they only hate Israel for what it does, not for what they are, but they too have to make up the crimes, so I am not fooled.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 06:24 AM

& what kind of 'ism' is this constant gratuitous obsessive throwing up of the fact that I was at Cambridge and you weren't?   "Chip-on-shoulderism' is what I should call it..

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 06:24 AM

"THERE IS FREE MOVEMENT OF FOOD ACROSS THE BORDER BETWEEN GAZA AND ISRAEL!"
Whether this is so or not is totally beside the point - the Israelis are still forbidding essential agricultural material which prevents Palestinians from growing their own food to feed themselves and make a living.
Also on their list are building materials which are necessary to rebuild the homes destroyed by indiscriminate Israeli attacks on built-up areas.
Malnutrition due to food shortages, directly identified to the blockade by the UN and Amnesty, is present in 10% of Palestinian children.
As has been already pointed out, delays and border closures have caused shortages in medical supplies, leading to untreated illnesses, even deaths.
All this is fully documented and reported by reliable observers over and over again.   
The Israelis are continuing to carry out what they started in 1992 - to control and manipulate the Palestinian economy for their own expansionist ends.
The policy of measuring how much food is need so as not to tip Palestine into mass starvation says everything that needs to be said about the Israeli regime, as does its intention to team up with an ultra-religious party in order to hold on to power.
These rightists are now proposing the cutting off of water and electricity to Gaza in order to "drive them into Egypt" - not a lot of equivocation there - puts it in a nutshell really.   
This "slander" is far from dead, it's not even had time to take a nap.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 06:16 AM

... and for good measure, Collins defines 'dab hand' as ' someone particularly expert at something'.

Not a dab hand at definitions or postings, are you, poor old Jim!

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 06:11 AM

Sorry ~~ looking back again, Chambers defines 'dab' even more explicitly as 'an expert person'; followed by the definition for 'dab hand' given above.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 06:03 AM

Sorry, Jim ~~ but 'dab hand' implies skill and proficiency, not merely prolificancy ---

"dab - expert; a dab hand at - an expert at" {Chambers}.

Can't you even get that much right, my dear old fellow.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 04:41 AM

this thread is about the present moves by the Israeli regime towards starving the Palestinians into submission

It was Jim, but now we have established that they are not starving anyone.
THERE IS FREE MOVEMENT OF FOOD ACROSS THE BORDER BETWEEN GAZA AND ISRAEL!

You will need to make up a new slander against Israel.
That one is dead.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 03:12 AM

"Thanks for the compliment, Jim ~~ much appreciated. "
I didn't say you were skilful at them, just prolific. Given your latest offerings here, you are rather crudely childish at it - "old age", "disgustingly discourteous organism" - is that all that Cambridge left you with - tut-tut.
As far as your stance; this thread is about the present moves by the Israeli regime towards starving the Palestinians into submission, yet the only criticisms I can see from you are aimed directly at those who find such behaviour abhorrent.
To quote - "Which side are you on?"
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 02:38 AM

So why the shortages?
As they are not the fault of Israel who allow any amount in, it can only be the fault of the people in charge of Gaza.
Time to accept some uncomfortable truth Don.
Israel is not the evil monster you like to believe it to be.
Hamas actually is.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: bobad
Date: 23 Nov 12 - 06:49 PM

"So why the shortages?"

There is no shortage of rockets, is there?

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 23 Nov 12 - 06:42 PM

""Because they can get as much as they like delivered across the border with Israel, above ground, on big trucks, so why ever would they want to?
Likewise medical supplies.
Blaming mismangement in Gaza on Israel is just propaganda, and these knobs all lap it up.""

So why the shortages?

We have plenty of evidence from non Palestinian hospital staff that there is an ongoing shortage of medical supplies.

And your shouting about every criticism of Israel being propaganda doesn't make it true, and disparaging references to us "knobs" doesn't either you ignorant pr**k.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 23 Nov 12 - 04:31 PM

Learn some manners, Mr Bridge, or have the goodness not to address me again, you disgustingly discourteous organism.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 23 Nov 12 - 04:29 PM

I find Keith's stance rather detestable but at least he leaves nobody in any doubt as to where he stands.
..,,..
No doubt where I stand either, if you would only take the trouble to keep up. Just read what's posted, not what the ineffable James Carroll assumes ought to be posted...

Eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 23 Nov 12 - 04:26 PM

As for insults - you are a dab hand at those yourself ~~~
.,,,...

Thanks for the compliment, Jim ~~ much appreciated.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 Nov 12 - 04:00 PM

I don't think you will ever have seen a post of mine, Myer, denouncing "British Imperialism". If you have, please give an accurate citation. I am not conceited enough to keep a database of my posts.

You are completely wrong about the Arabs. They had always occupied the lands in point. It was merely a question of who notionally ruled them. The rule of the Ottoman Empire had vanished. The figleaf of legitimacy given by the League of Nations had vanished. The UN had no authority derived from the occupiers to give away their land (the classic "democratic deficit" of modern parlance).

And Begin was a terrorist opposing an occupying force - just like Gerry Adams.

Try to keep up. I know it's hard at your age.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Nov 12 - 03:00 PM

They are not my "friends", Jim, as you well know"
I find Keith's stance rather detestable but at least he leaves nobody in any doubt as to where he stands.
As for insults - you are a dab hand at those yourself - when the mask slips
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 23 Nov 12 - 02:06 PM

Richard ~~ Begin's campaign was against the British occupiers, who insisted on sticking around by the will or invitation of neither Arabs nor Jews after the Mandate which put them there expired with the end of the existence of the League of Nations, whose it was in the first place: all part of that British Imperialism, so often denounced by precisely the likes of you ~ the belief that the Pax Britannica must be upheld by force of arms wherever HM's Government thought fit. It was not against the Arabs - whose land, in any event, it wasn't in any sense: they lived there at the will & pleasure of the Turkish governors and never had a state of their own there: which renders your comparison with Ireland far beyond absurd, into the realms of loony fantasy in comparing like with absolutely unlike.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 23 Nov 12 - 01:57 PM

They are not my "friends", Jim, as you well know. What with that, and your constant bleats of 'hypocrite" without thinking of the beam in your own eye, you are resorting yet again to your old technique of flinging abuse when you run out of arguments. Right back to your predictable MO , alas! Do you really think you take anybody in?

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 Nov 12 - 04:31 AM

I have come late to this thread. I pause only long enough to confirm one thing Don said above. He is certainly no leftie. He votes conservative and is really very right wing on most things. For Keith and Myer to outflank him to the right must make their point of origin somewhere on Mars or further.

I might as well say one other thing. Israel is an invasion of Arab land. The Jewish political units created at the stroke of a pen from the end of the First World War until today were taken from the Arabs and given to the Jews by people who had no legitimate right so to do.

If one compares Ireland, it was invaded by the English starting in about the 1300s until wholly ruled by England. But the Irish refused to stay conquered. Their armed insurrection in the early 20s culminated in a (mostly)legitimate military overthrow. They continued a terrorist campaign (with substantial support from the USA) against the northern states and England until the terrorists named by McGrath got that they wanted - and in the fullness of time they will have the northern states. It's all rather like the terrorist Menachem Begin's successful campaign to establish the 1948 Israel.

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Nov 12 - 03:18 AM

it is the duty of the Palestinian leadership to resist the murderously genocidal regime
They have committed no murder, and far from genocide the Gazan population is in extreme rapid expansion.
who hasn't thought twice about massacring civilians
Or even once.
No "massacre of civilians."
Count the dead civilians from the latest terror attacks
The indiscriminate, illegal missiles and bus bomb are the only terrorism in this conflict.
bring about mass starvation with their blockade
Did you forget that THERE IS NO BLOCKADE OF FOOD, ONLY WEAPONS.

Without wild hyperbole and made up horrors, what is your case Jim?

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Nov 12 - 03:04 AM

"Jim has come right out and said they need the weapons more "
Whatever we might think of them, in the present situation it is the duty of the Palestinian leadership to resist the murderously genocidal regime who hasn't thought twice about massacring civilians and destroying their homes in their ongoing expansionism
Count the dead civilians from the latest terror attacks,
Read about the ultras who will partner your friends in the next election.
Explain why your friends are measuring just how far they can go before they bring about mass starvation with their blockade.
You have now joined your pupil in claiming that the regime you so strongly oppose is really the Christmas fairy bringing goodies to the Palestinian people
There, - isn't it much more comfortable out of that nasty old closet?   
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Nov 12 - 01:49 AM

Keith, you have stated that I don't have enough information about Israel.

EDUCATING STRINGY.
Palestinian children are suffering from malnutrition.
That's equivalent to starvation

No Stringy.
Malnutrition is found everywhere, including your town and my town, and it is not all Israel's fault.
Starvation is when you die.

6,000 Palestinians killed from Israeli agression.
3 Israeli citizens from Hamas rocket attacks.
You are clearly a member of the "make up a number and add noughts" school of statistics.
Which day of the conflict are you referring to?

Thank you for bringing some comedy into an otherwise grim subject.