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BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm!
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Subject: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 29 Oct 12 - 07:54 AM REPORT: "The 17-member crew of the tall ship HMS Bounty has abandoned the vessel in the Atlantic Ocean 90 miles southeast of Hatteras, North Carolina." The ship has been monitored by Coast Guard planes. It's uncertain at this time what the rest of this story is. What in hell were they doing in the vicinity of this well forecast hurricane? Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 29 Oct 12 - 07:56 AM The Bounty was about 90 miles southeast of Hatteras, North Carolina, or roughly 160 miles from the center of Sandy, a Category 1 hurricane bearing down on the U.S. East Coast, the Coast Guard said. The three-masted, 180-foot (55-metre) vessel was believed to be taking on water and was without propulsion, stuck in 40 mile-per-hour winds and 18-foot (5.5-metre) seas, the Coast Guard said. An HC-130 Hercules aircraft had been in contact with the crew while flying overhead, and the Coast Guard was determining which rescue vessel or aircraft was best placed to respond, Petty Officer David Weydert said. "The crew is safe and accounted for. They have abandoned ship," said a posting on the ship's Facebook page. "They are in their sea survival suits and in a life boat." Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 29 Oct 12 - 08:08 AM Coast Guard helicopters are reported on the scene and rescue lift operations are reported on the way, with 18 foot seas and 40 knot winds. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 29 Oct 12 - 08:13 AM Evidently all 17 crew members have been rescued: click here for update! Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: maeve Date: 29 Oct 12 - 08:23 AM Thanks, Charley. I've had them on my mind. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Henry Krinkle Date: 29 Oct 12 - 08:28 AM Ships sink. It's part of the game. Other ones are built to replace them. =(:-( D) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 29 Oct 12 - 08:31 AM Thanks for your concern and insight, Henry... Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Henry Krinkle Date: 29 Oct 12 - 08:37 AM Is it the same boat Clark Gable made a movie with? Or the one Marlon Brado used? =(:-( )) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Bat Goddess Date: 29 Oct 12 - 08:51 AM Evidently she's not abandoned -- three people (presumably including the captain) were left on board. Not all Linn |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Bobert Date: 29 Oct 12 - 08:53 AM Why exactly is it sinking, Charlie??? Sail boats have enough weight in the keel to keep them afloat... Ya' just baton down hatches and the water sloshes off the deck... Kinda hard to sink unless it hits something and damages the hull... BTW, riding the storms out can be no fun but if ya' brace yerself well you survive even the biggest of storms in a sailboat... B~ (ridden out a few storms myself...) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Bat Goddess Date: 29 Oct 12 - 08:54 AM I've "sailed" on the Bounty -- under power, actually, not wind. Just out the Piscataqua River and then back to the dock in Portsmouth. My left contact lens mutinied and I lost it on the Bounty. Linn |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Bobert Date: 29 Oct 12 - 09:00 AM Sounds like the makings of a good folk song, B-Goddess... B;~) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: maeve Date: 29 Oct 12 - 09:10 AM "More than a dozen members of a Nova Scotia-built replica vessel have abandoned ship off the coast of North Carolina after getting caught in the high seas brought on by Hurricane Sandy. Officials with the U.S. Coast Guard told CBC News the crew of HMS Bounty decided to abandon ship after getting caught in 5.5-metre seas off Cape Hatteras on Monday. The ship sank several hours after the evacuation. Petty Officer 1st Class Jordan Campbell, with the U.S. Coast Guard, said 16 crew members of the tall ship managed to get on board two life-rafts. "We have two H-60 helicopters en route to attempt to hoist the 16 people on board the helicopters and bring them back to shore," Campbell told CBC News on Monday morning. As of 9:15 a.m. AT, a U.S. Coast Guard Jayhawk helicopter had hoisted five crew members from the life-rafts. Campbell said officials were still trying to determine exactly how many crew members were on board. The Coast Guard was originally told 17 people were on the Bounty but only 16 heat signatures were detected." http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/story/2012/10/29/ns-hms-bounty-hurricane-sandy.html |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Bill D Date: 29 Oct 12 - 09:10 AM Eye-eye? Captain? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Henry Krinkle Date: 29 Oct 12 - 09:17 AM Is the captains name George Bush? He has a knack for sinking ships, you know. =(:-( O) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: John MacKenzie Date: 29 Oct 12 - 09:29 AM Battening down the hatches is fine, unless you have sprung a timber, or in the case of a vessel with power, stern glands can leak. All sorts of things happen. However the ballast that most ships need to keep them "in" the water rather than on it, and in the case of a ship carrying tall masts and rigging, to help keep it upright while under sail. Will also work wery well to take her to the bottom once the integrity of her hull is compromised. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Bobert Date: 29 Oct 12 - 09:36 AM I understand that, John... Unless there were mistakes made deck side then something caused the hull to take on water... The seals of the screws (propellers) wouldn't be enough to sink it as the bilge pumps can easily handle that leakage... Sounds to me like the seas cracked the hull... The sailboats I used to crew on were almost indestructible with fiber-glass hulls... But then again they were a lot smaller and less subject to having 50 of so feet of boat coming out of the water and then slamming down... Sometimes smaller is better in a storm... I never felt scared during them... Sick??? Okay... A couple times... lol... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: gnu Date: 29 Oct 12 - 09:43 AM How terrible! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 29 Oct 12 - 09:53 AM PORTSMOUTH AP) -- The Coast Guard has rescued 14 members of the crew forced to abandon the tall ship HMS Bounty caught in Hurricane Sandy off the North Carolina Outer Banks. The Coast Guard is searching for two other crew members. It corrected the total number of crew to 16 from 17. Coast Guard Petty Officer 1st Class Brandyn Hill says 14 people were rescued by two Coast Guard helicopters about 6:30 a.m. Monday. So evidently 2 crew members are missing at this point and the Bounty has been reported as sunk. There will certainly be discussion of what the captain was doing in that area, given the advance information about the storm. The Bounty was reported coming down from the North (from Nova Scotia) and evidently attempting to shirt the Eastern edge of the hurricane on her way South to Florida. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 29 Oct 12 - 10:01 AM Construction History: "She was successfully launched in Lunenburg Ns in 1960 before being delivered to the owner. A spacious feeling is manifested with a total beam (width) of 9.21 metres / 30.2 ft. With a 4.21m (13.8ft) draught (maximum depth) she is deep. The material oak/spruce / steel was used in the building of the hull of the sailing yacht. Her superstructure above deck is built with the use of wood. Over the deck of H.M.S. BOUNTY she is 40.5 (132.9 ft) in length. The Propulsion Type - Engineering Figures On S/Y H.M.S. BOUNTY: The yacht is engineered with a sole CUMMINS main engine(s) and can find a stately top end speed of around 10 knots. The engine of the H.M.S. BOUNTY creates 550 horse power (or 162 kilowatts). Her total HP is 550 HP and her total Kilowatts are 324. H.M.S. BOUNTY is propelled by twin screw propellers." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Amos Date: 29 Oct 12 - 10:08 AM A case of bad judgement--he was allegedly trying to skirt the storm on his way to Florida. He should have been anchored tight in a bolthole somewhere. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Little Hawk Date: 29 Oct 12 - 10:25 AM This was the ship from the Marlon Brando film in the early 60s. It was a beauty. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Henry Krinkle Date: 29 Oct 12 - 10:54 AM It was nice. I want to watch the movie again. I have it here on DVD. It may be an insurance scam. =(:-( 0) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Lonesome EJ Date: 29 Oct 12 - 11:00 AM No one would take a sailing ship into such a storm to perpetrate an insurance scam, Henry, especially the owner. There are few things more terrifying. A case of bad luck and bad judgement, in my opinion. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 29 Oct 12 - 11:05 AM Here is where she was bound: The World Famous Tall Ship HMS Bounty will visit The Pier St. Petersburg, Florida November 10th – 11th Not happening! Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Ebbie Date: 29 Oct 12 - 11:09 AM Lorcan reported this on Facebook. I understand that the ship was/is a replica of the Bounty. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 29 Oct 12 - 11:12 AM Ebbie- Yes, of course, it is one of the replica Bounties. The original was burned off Pitcairn Island in the 18th century. This one was built in Lunenburg, Nova Scotia, in 1960, and totally rebuilt in Boothbay Harbor, Maine, just a couple of years ago. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 29 Oct 12 - 11:20 AM Here's more info on her last port of call: "HMS Bounty which sailed from New London, CT on Thursday, ahead of Hurricane Sandy. The ship was built for the the 1962 movie Mutiny on the Bounty with Marlon Brando. It now looks like the ship under the command of Captain Robin Walbridge has successfully slipped across the path of the storm and is sailing south and west as the hurricane tracks north toward the northeast coast. The captain estimates that the ship and the hurricane will pass each other on opposite courses sometime Sunday night or Monday morning. We can only wish the ship and her crew, a continued safe and successful voyage." Sad to say the plan did not work out... Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: number 6 Date: 29 Oct 12 - 11:25 AM Saw this ship docked in Eastport Maine early in September. An impressive Tall Ship. Hope all will be ok with it and it's crew. biLL |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Henry Krinkle Date: 29 Oct 12 - 11:28 AM Hasn't it already sunk?? =(:-( o) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Bat Goddess Date: 29 Oct 12 - 11:35 AM Here's from about a half an hour ago -- 10:45 a.m. Monday Evidently two people are missing. Linn |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 29 Oct 12 - 11:40 AM According to Linn's link above two of the crew members did not make it into the two lifeboats that were launched. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Bat Goddess Date: 29 Oct 12 - 11:40 AM Here's a bit more -- http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/as-many-as-three-missing-after-canadian-built-hms-bounty-replica-sinks-in-storm/article4719018/ For some reason, the blue clickifier has failed on it twice. Here's the article -- As many as three missing after Canadian-built HMS Bounty replica sinks in storm PAUL KORING and JANE TABER WASHINGTON — The Globe and Mail Published Monday, Oct. 29 2012, 10:24 AM EDT Last updated Monday, Oct. 29 2012, 11:28 AM EDT As many as three crew members were missing in high seas and raging winds after the Canadian-built replica of HMS Bounty was abandoned and sank Monday morning. "Fourteen are safe on shore and we've sent another Jayhawk out to the scene," Lieutenant-Commander Jamie Frederick told The Globe and Mail at 10:30 am. He confirmed some members of the Bounty crew were missing. A large Coast Guard Hercules was orbiting overhead but the search for the missing was being conducted in the midst of near-hurricane conditions. It wasn't clear whether 16 or 17 people were on board HMS Bounty, the 52-year-old replica of an 18th century British warship. The dramatic rescue – crew members were winched from life-rafts to the hovering, bright orange Jayhawk helicopters – began just after dawn after the crew of the stricken Bounty fought and lost a night-long battle to save the ship that had starred in many movies. After abandoning the sinking ship at about 4:30 a.m., the crew spent more than two hours tossing in life rafts before the Jayhawks arrived. "They're in cold-water survival suits in two life rafts and the first Jayhawk is overhead," Lt.-Cmdr Frederick said at 7 a.m. as the rescue began. One helicopter lifted nine of the crew, the other hoisted the reaming five. Although there was no official word on their condition, they were flown to the Coast Guard air station rather than direct to hospital which is a good sign. The ship, built in Lunenburg, Nova Scotia for the 1962 Mutiny on the Bounty movie was an enlarged replica of the famous British warship seized by mutineers in 1789 in Tahiti. The 55-metre, 400-tonne replica vessel has appeared in many documentaries and the Pirates of the Caribbean films. Bounty's crew sent a distress call at 6:30 p.m. Sunday night, reporting the ship had lost power and its pump was unable to keep up with water from high waves that was slowly flooding the ship. Bounty sank, according to the vessel's Facebook page, at 8:45 a.m. Monday morning. That report has yet to be confirmed. Two elderly shipbuilders, who had worked on the Bounty when it was being built in Lunenburg in the early 1960s, were shocked Monday morning to hear the news the ship had sank. Both had visited the Bounty this summer, admiring their handiwork from so long ago, when it came into the Lunenburg harbour as part of the Tall Ships festival. Edgar Silver worked on planking and framing of the famous ship, and said he was proud of the work he had done. The 88-year-old, who lives in Bridgewater, not far from Lunenburg, hadn't heard the news this morning that the Bounty had sunk. "Oh, oh," Edward Mosher said Monday morning when hearing the news about the Bounty. "Well, I don't know what to think." He was concerned about the fate of the crew. "It was a well-made ship," he said. U.S. Coast Guard Jayhawk helicopters rescued 14 others from life rafts in a dramatic dawn rescue about 150 kilometres off Cape Hatteras, North Carolina. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Henry Krinkle Date: 29 Oct 12 - 11:42 AM Condolences to the families. =(:-( l) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: maeve Date: 29 Oct 12 - 11:43 AM That information was also at my link at 9:10 AM: " Oct 29, 2012 12:20 PM All the crew members made it onto two covered life-rafts but only 14 people were hoisted onto helicopters, said U.S. Coast Guard Lt. Brendan Selerno. He said officials have not yet had the chance to debrief the 14 survivors to find out what happened to the two other crew members. Selerno said the two missing crew members are believed to be in cold water survival suits and life-jackets. He said the air search is being plotted based on wind direction and speed, and will be expanded." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: JohnInKansas Date: 29 Oct 12 - 11:44 AM Hurricane force winds extending 175 miles from the eye of this storm Monday morning. (50 mile increase in radius in past day?) Storm center moving with a ground speed of 18 mph with unpredictable direction today, somewhat slower yesterday. Ship top speed 10 kt (11.6 mph?). If the ship was out very far at all when the storm first was reported to be a hazard where they were, there's no visible way it could get to a safe harbor or run out of the path of the storm as they apparently tried to do. The storm has grown in area faster than it's moved, so the "danger zone" is moving significantly faster than the center, and there probably was just no place they could run to. Reports so far don't give enough information to plot the charts on the situation, but it's plausible enough to assume they were just in a situation where there was no way out. John |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 29 Oct 12 - 11:52 AM The U.S. Coast Guard confirms the loss of HMS Bounty this morning. A search continues for the persons unaccounted for. This is "history come alive" in the worst way. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Les from Hull Date: 29 Oct 12 - 12:11 PM Sailing ships have a tendency to capsize in very strong winds. The normal remedy is to 'send down' the topgallant and topmasts to reduce the top hamper but this might not be possible on the replica Bounty with the small crew available. With the engine out it would be very difficult to keep end on to the wind and Bounty would have have gone beam on to the sea and consequently gone over. Many sailing ships were lost in this way, as indeed were several of our local trawlers in Arctic waterps when the upperworks became iced over. The original Bounty was built about half a mile from me here in Hull. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 29 Oct 12 - 01:14 PM Sad Update: "Three crew members were washed overboard as they tried to get to two covered life-rafts, said the U.S. Coast Guard. Only one of the three members made it to the life-raft and was among the 14 people hoisted onto helicopters. Coast Guard officials said the two missing crew members — a man and a woman — are believed to be in cold water survival suits and life-jackets. He said the air search is being plotted based on wind direction and speed, and will be expanded. Claudia McCann, whose husband Robin Walbridge is the captain of the Bounty, told CBC News her husband is one of the two missing crew members. CBC News has learned the other missing crew member is Claudene Christian." Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Henry Krinkle Date: 29 Oct 12 - 01:24 PM I hope they make it. =(:-( l) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 29 Oct 12 - 01:33 PM Insured by LOYDS OF LONDON I 'm sure. Sincerely, Gargoyle ooppps...guess they went under a few years ahead of the bounty. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: gnu Date: 29 Oct 12 - 02:49 PM Listened to one of the builders on CBC this AM - 6 od 50 odd are still alive. Interesting. I pray for the missing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Bat Goddess Date: 29 Oct 12 - 03:21 PM Here's my friend Stephen Smith's interview two years ago with Captain Walbridge, now missing after the sinking of the Bounty -- Walbridge Interview He's a really enjoyable person to be around, great sense of humor, dealt well with the public. He's in a survival suit. I certainly hope he and Claudene are rescued. Linn |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 29 Oct 12 - 03:25 PM Here's another valuable link for expert commentary on this type of disaster from "gCaptain.com": click here for update! There's more of the story with some images. Thanks, Henry; it gets real... Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: maeve Date: 29 Oct 12 - 05:30 PM http://www.pressherald.com/news/Crew-of-tall-ship-off-NC-abandons-ship-.html |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 29 Oct 12 - 05:42 PM Thanks, maeve, for your update link above. Here's another update on the captain from his wife: Captain Robin Walbridge, 63, who worked on the Bounty for 17 years, was one of the missing, said his wife, Claudia McCann. "That was his passion," McCann said. "He's the best captain in the industry. ... There's not too many captains that can sail that kind of ship (a square-rigger)." The captain was the last to leave the ship, wearing red survival gear, she said. "That's the image I have in my head. I'm sure he made sure his crew were all tucked in their life boats before he got off the ship," McCann said. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 29 Oct 12 - 06:13 PM Here's an edited video of the helicopter rescue: Click here for video! The video is embedded in the report. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: maeve Date: 29 Oct 12 - 06:20 PM Just saw this: "The C-130 Hercules aircraft searched for the two missing crewmembers and a third Jayhawk crew assisted in the search and rescue efforts. Crews found one of those missing crewmembers Monday around 6 p.m. Officials said 42-year-old Claudene Christian was found unresponsive and taken to a hospital in Albemarle..." Claudene Christian found |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: ChanteyLass Date: 29 Oct 12 - 06:38 PM I hope she hangs in and improves. Probably too much of a stretch for her to be somehow related to Fletcher Christian. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: gnu Date: 29 Oct 12 - 06:58 PM Oh my. I hope she's okay. I know it may be odd for some to hear my grave concern. It would be the almost same for anyone in any dire straights, but... is it just me? living close to salt water, knowing freinds and relatives who "go to sea"... that makes some situations more "personal"? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Dorothy Parshall Date: 29 Oct 12 - 07:20 PM CBC reports that Claudene did not survive. This news will affect many tall ship folks around the world and all their friends. Captain is still missing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 29 Oct 12 - 07:23 PM Sad news for her family. The Coast Guard certainly are doing all they possibly can, and maybe even more. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: maeve Date: 29 Oct 12 - 07:43 PM gnu: '...living close to salt water, knowing freinds and relatives who "go to sea"... that makes some situations more "personal"? ' Not just you, gnu. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: michaelr Date: 29 Oct 12 - 08:20 PM Apparently the decision to sail was made because the risk of the ship being battered to shreds when tied up in a storm surge was deemed greater than the risk of sailing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 29 Oct 12 - 08:37 PM CBC Halifax update at 8 pm: "Bounty crew member Claudene Christian is in critical condition in an Elizabeth City, N.C., hospital after being found by the U.S. Coast Guard on Monday evening. An earlier report said Christian, 42, had died." Maybe there is hope. This story is now confirmed by Reuters. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Bill D Date: 29 Oct 12 - 08:42 PM **crossing fingers** |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: GUEST,kendall Date: 29 Oct 12 - 08:44 PM What a loss, so damn sad. There are few things as beautiful as a square rigged ship under sail. Or a Brig, or a barque, barquentine or brigantine...The Coast Guard cutter Eagle is a Barque.Gorgeous. Damn. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Dorothy Parshall Date: 29 Oct 12 - 09:11 PM The U.S. Coast Guard has recovered the body of a woman from the HMS Bounty replica sinking. Claudene Christian, 42, was located by an MH-60 Jayhawk helicopter Monday evening. Her body was taken to Albemarle Hospital in Elizabeth City, N.C. The hospital confirmed the death of Christian to CBC News. Still no sign of the captain. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Dorothy Parshall Date: 29 Oct 12 - 09:15 PM It is Atlantic time: Bounty in pictures UPDATED 9:52 p.m. Bounty crew member Claudene Christian died in a Elizabeth City, N.C., hospital after being found by the U.S. Coast Guard on Monday evening. Hospital officials said Christian, 42, died just before 9:30 p.m. AT after being listed in critical condition upon arrival at the hospital. A premature report from the U.S. Coast Guard said Christian had died earlier. "She was unresponsive when we located her," coast guard Petty Officer 1st Class Brandyn Hill said in an interview around 7:15 p.m. Atlantic time. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: bobad Date: 29 Oct 12 - 10:24 PM UPDATE: Missing crew member, Claudene Christian, 42, was pulled from the water unconscious and later confirmed dead by the Coast Guard. Captain Robin Walbridge is still missing. CBC News is reporting: Claudia McCann, whose husband Robin Walbridge is the captain of the Bounty, told CBC News her husband is one of the two missing crew members. CBC News has learned the other missing crew member is Claudene Christian. Claudene Christian is reported to be a distant relative of Fletcher Christian, the original Master's Mate who seized command of the ship during the mutiny. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 29 Oct 12 - 10:25 PM Yes, the death of Claudene Christian has now been confirmed from several sources. So sad. A miraculous survival would have been such heartening news. There are stories that suggest she was actually related to Fletcher Christian of the original mutiny on the Bounty. But maybe that's all wistful reportage. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Henry Krinkle Date: 29 Oct 12 - 10:32 PM Sorry to hear. =(:-( l) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: GUEST Date: 29 Oct 12 - 11:09 PM BAD LUCK To sail with a woman on board...even Capt. Sparrow could tell you THAT! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Jack Campin Date: 30 Oct 12 - 06:43 AM Nice video of the ship in rough seas: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jI4Jh5_woT0 |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Ed T Date: 30 Oct 12 - 07:23 AM Some ship info: Statistics |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 30 Oct 12 - 07:49 AM Here's a more detailed update from the Washington Post of the ship's last moments and the rescue efforts: http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/tall-ship-hms-bounty-sinks-off-nc-coast-two-still-missing/2012/10/29/d276daf8-21d8-11e2-8448 Actually this link didn't work when I just tested it; they may be doing further updates to the story. There are still some unanswered questions but the drama is now over. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Ed T Date: 30 Oct 12 - 07:51 AM RIP to those lost at sea. Historically, over 600 who sailed from the small fishing and shipbuilding community of Lunenburg were lost at sea on 150 ships. More recently you may recall the capsizing and sinking of the tall ship Concordia off Brazil in February 2010. The ship sank in 18 minutes. Fortunately all 64 survived, but spent 41 hours adrift in the stormy Atlantic. Tall Ship Concordia Lunenburg, sailing ships and the sea |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 30 Oct 12 - 09:42 AM Here's a critical assessment of the HMS Bounty sinking by another tall ship captain who decided to remain in Nova Scotia rather than sail south: Click here for story The captain of the Picton Castle says he can't understand why the Bounty was at sea Monday when a massive hurricane was forecast to hit. Indeed, Dan Moreland postponed leaving Lunenburg more than a week ago precisely because of hurricane Sandy. "It was an easy decision to make," he said. "It's black and white, there are no nuances with this. It's a huge system and that made the decision very simple." Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 30 Oct 12 - 10:27 AM Here's a link to a grim set of photos of the HMS Bounty actually sinking: Click here for photos! Thanks to the hard work of the Coast Guard almost all of the crew members were saved. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 30 Oct 12 - 01:04 PM Sometimes these threads have a light moment amid the tragic. Up above someone recommended "baton down the hatches." Was this an old ships custom when a storm approached? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Henry Krinkle Date: 30 Oct 12 - 01:13 PM Batten. Not baton. =(:-( l) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: MartinRyan Date: 30 Oct 12 - 01:17 PM Batten. Not baton. Quiet! ;>)> Regards |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 30 Oct 12 - 01:59 PM Gee whilikers and Gosh all Jehosophat! Humor not permissible? Of course batten, dense ones, but tbe image conjured up by 'baton' is interesting. Picture a chantey leader having the crew baton down the hatches. A whole new chantey could be in order. Batons up, bullies, As the wave rises, Hey! Batons down, bullies, As the wave sets, Whack! ------------------ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 30 Oct 12 - 03:42 PM Q "Sometimes these threads have a light moment amid the tragic." "Thanks for the lighter moment, " says Charley Noble, examining the weather gauge with his beady eye and taping the compass upon the taffrail. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: EBarnacle Date: 30 Oct 12 - 03:46 PM There is an old saying that the time to reef is when you first think of it. A corrolary to this is: Don't sail into the teeth of a storm that you know is coming. You can have many jobs but you have only one life. It was a [probably fatal] case of misjudgement. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: gnu Date: 30 Oct 12 - 04:06 PM Those pics are rough to look at, Charley. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Lonesome EJ Date: 30 Oct 12 - 04:47 PM If a more secure harbor was the concern, sailing North along the coast could have easily worked. My guess is that, the Bounty being a perennial tourist attraction for the Winter season in St Petersburg, the unfortunate decision to head south was made based at least partially on financial commitments to the Florida venue. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 30 Oct 12 - 05:10 PM gnu- So true. Lonesome EJ- There may have been some pressure from management to be down in St. Petersburg for the special tall ship's event the week after. We'll never know. I'm still trying to puzzle out why the captain decided to try to skirt around the western edge of the storm rather than the eastern edge; that's evidently how the ship sank at its present location, just 90 miles off Cape Hatteras. Skirting west would have been faster but more risky, and if the bilge pumps failed, the generators failed, and the engines failed, the hurricane would have been right on them (and the hurricane doubled its pace as it closed on the shore)... All so much speculation and there are more qualified sailors on this forum to do such speculation than me. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Lonesome EJ Date: 30 Oct 12 - 05:23 PM Charley, I don't want to cast any aspersions on the seamanship of the captain, or the owners' concern for financial commitments. And I am not a seaman of the caliber of Amos, or Kendall, or many others on this forum. I simply feel that, with a storm on the way that could have delayed Bounty's commitments for a substantial and undetermined period, in addition to the real possibility of sustaining damage while holed up in a harbor in the North, further delaying departure, a decision might well have been reached to make a run for Florida, a decision that ended in tragedy. I am sure more will come out regarding the reasons for the disaster. I doubt the captain would have made such a decision on his own. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Fossil Date: 30 Oct 12 - 05:47 PM "Battening down the hatches" was the practice aboard old-time sailing ships when bad weather was expected. Hatches are large openings in the deck through which cargo and stores are loaded aboard. On wooden ships, the hatch covers were planks, which are not watertight. So the planks were covered with oiled canvas, and to prevent the canvas coming off in the gale, long wooden strips (battens) were placed over it and nailed down. Of course, once the hatches were battened down like this, you couldn't use the hatchway, which is why this was only done when extreme safety precautions were considered necessary. Modern steel ships have waterproof steel hatch covers, so battening down is not necessary. I have no idea whether Bounty had large hatches requiring battening or not. Probably not, since I'm sure modern technology would have provided it with waterproof covers anyway. Which may be why, in the aerial photos, the hull still seems to be semi-afloat, if waterlogged. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 30 Oct 12 - 08:59 PM Fossil- The survivors should have some clue as to where the water was coming that overwhelmed the pumps and the generators. We just have to be patient for a more complete explanation. With a strong following sea, the Bounty would have been subjected to severe corkscrewing stress which could have opened up her seams, letting water in. Alternatively one of the overboard discharge valves that failed, or a hatch that failed as you suggest, might have done her in. The Bounty, as I think I've mentioned above, was completely rebuilt below the waterline in 2006-2007, and had undergone more repair work for a month in the same yard in Maine in September of this year. She should have been in good condition, for a 50-year ship. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Fossil Date: 30 Oct 12 - 09:53 PM Oh I wasn't suggesting that hatch covers were the problem that caused the Bounty to founder: there could be many explanations. I was just trying to explain the term "battening down" for the benefit of non-nautical members of the forum. I did note that one of the pictures of the vessel taken before the accident showed the wide expanse of stern windows typical of vessels of the era the Bounty replica was emulating. I'm sure they would have had "deadlights" (solid covers) fixed over these windows, but many yachts in severe storms have had deadlghts stove in by the force of the sea. Something similar could have happened if the ship was running before the storm, and once the windows were broken there would be waves from the following sea washing straight through - it wouldn't take long after that for the ship to fill up. But I really don't know what was the exact cause, though doubtless a serious effort will be made to find out. The power of the ocean in a storm like this one makes a sobering thought for those of us who do go out on the ocean. In the Sydney - Hobart Race disaster a few years back, modern, well-found racing yachts with experienced crews were rolled by giant waves, masts broken, cabin tops ripped off and even when survivors took to their life rafts, the rafts themselves were ripped apart by the force of the sea. At least this didn't happen with the Bounty and all the crew bar two were rescued, thanks to their survival suits and life rafts - this we must be thankful for. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: GUEST,skivee, guesting in Date: 30 Oct 12 - 11:10 PM This is such a sad day for the tallship community> |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Roger the Skiffler Date: 31 Oct 12 - 07:38 AM In terms of the total destruction caused by the storm, this is minor but it is sad when one of the few remaining period (albeit replica) tall ships is lost, especially with loss of life. RtS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 31 Oct 12 - 08:26 AM Here's a more detailed news summary describing what happened: Click here for update! There is still a conflict in reports with regard to which side of the hurricane the Bounty's captain was attempting to skirt, west versus east, but all agree she sank 90 miles east of Cape Hatteras, Monday. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 31 Oct 12 - 04:35 PM Here's a link to the Wooden Boat Forum where there are some more qualified sailing folks (more qualified than me!) discussing the sinking of the Bounty: click here for discussion! The discussion supports my contention that the captain tried to cut across the track of Sandy, a gamble which turned out disastrous. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Fossil Date: 31 Oct 12 - 06:01 PM One of the posters on the Wooden Boats forum referenced by Charlie made a telling point when he noted that where the ship foundered, they were in 40 to 50-knot northerly winds blowing directly against the Gulf Stream current. This situation can easily produce steep, breaking waves of up to 40 feet which would have caused the ship to work heavily. All wooden ships leak to some extent and apparently the Bounty was a particularly wet ship. Other posters with experience in sailing aboard her say that they had to check the water level and run the pumps every quarter of an hour. In a heavy storm like Sandy, it would take one minor mishap, such as a generator shorting out, to inactivate the bilge pumps, after which it was only a matter of time. But I do agree that criticism of the actions of the captain seems well founded. He took a 40-year old wooden vessel with lots of top-hamper out into a well-forecast hurricane with a small and somewhat inexperienced crew, surely a recipe for disaster. Someone else on the forum pointed out that even if they were under time pressure to get to Florida, delaying the departure for two days would have allowed them to complete the voyage within their deadline and in comparative safety. A lot more to come on this, I expect! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: gnu Date: 31 Oct 12 - 06:13 PM "At least this didn't happen with the Bounty and all the crew bar two were rescued, " There is what we can take solace in. The rest is just misery. Truly sad. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 31 Oct 12 - 10:59 PM Sad indeed. And I found myself getting choked up today when I was explaining to a neighbor what had happened with the Bounty and her crew. Caught me by surprise. I may go back to monitoring eagle cams or political debates. It probably will take months for a formal decision to be made, and I'm not even sure what kind of board is convened to do that. The captain is all responsible but whether he were negligent in some way would be for the board to determine. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Sandy Mc Lean Date: 01 Nov 12 - 12:01 AM This summer the Bounty returned home to Nova Scotia as part of the gathering of tall ships. For a few days she was tied to the wharf in Port Hawkesbury. I remember a lady playing a guitar on the dock and I believe that she was the deceased Ms. Christian, the lost crew-member who was a direct descendant of Fletcher Christian, who led the mutiny on the original Bounty. I was taking some photos and asked another crew-member when they would be leaving as I had hoped to get some pictures of her under sail. He introduced me to the captain and I spent a few minutes talking with him. After the ship left the dock it went through the Canso Canal and into the setting sun over St. George's Bay. Although it was not under sail I got some fantastic photos. I am saddened that a storm that carried my name caused so much destruction to so many souls! I will always remember walking the deck of The Bounty, speaking to her captain, and the image of a beautiful lady playing a guitar on the dock! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 01 Nov 12 - 07:26 AM Sandy- Yes, Ms. Christian played the guitar and sang sea songs, and she was a seasoned crew member. Her loss is a sad one. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 01 Nov 12 - 11:19 AM Here's a quote from the gCaptain Forum discussion to ponder: "Sarah, when you take an old wooden boat to sea in a storm the size of Sandy the ship is beat up by the waves and the seams will be stressed and begin to leak. It's a disaster waiting to happen. When you couple that with mechanical failure there is no more waiting, the disaster happens. My heart aches for the harrowing experience the crew suffered and the death of of Claudene Christian. But I don't think that explains the decision to take Bounty to sea and sail her in the direction of a monster hurricane, nor does the crew's willingness to go excuse the death of one sailor and the other 14 having to be rescued in the midst of a perfect storm. For the record, I am a tall ship sailor and I am married to a captain with almost 30 years experience. I have loved Barkentine Gazela since the day I first laid eyes on her in 1985, but I would not give my life for her. My heart is broken over the loss of Bounty and her crew." Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Seamus Kennedy Date: 01 Nov 12 - 12:37 PM They shouldn't have any trouble salvaging her, because Bounty is the quicker picker-upper..... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Lonesome EJ Date: 01 Nov 12 - 01:43 PM Little has been said regarding the courage and amazing skill of the Coast Guard crew who rescued these people. Imagine holding an aircraft steady in hurricane winds with seas rising up to your helicopter, then dropping away nearly forty feet in the next five seconds. All this while guiding and hauling exhausted sailors from rolling and tumbling rafts. It boggles the mind. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 01 Nov 12 - 03:56 PM The Coast Guard deserve our continued admiration. One of the final messages from the Captain Robin Walbridge to those ashore with regard to his revised sailing plan as of Saturday night: "I think we are going to be into this for several days, the weather looks like even after the eye (of the hurricane) goes by it (stormy weather) will linger for a couple of days. We are just going to keep trying to go fast and squeeze by the storm and land as fast as we can. I am thinking that we will pass each other sometime Sunday night or Monday morning." Clearly the captain was then planning to cut across the front of the incoming hurricane, between it and the shore, west of the storm instead of east as previously planned. However, at that point the hurricane picked up speed and the Bounty's fate was sealed. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Fossil Date: 01 Nov 12 - 07:54 PM Reviewing this thread last night, I took a look at the YouTube video posted by Jack (see above) of the Bounty in a biggish sea some while back. The ship looked so solid and reassuring you would never think it could get into trouble. But... one or two things worried me a bit: in the video the ship was said to be "hove to" in the open Atlantic Ocean waiting for a wind-shift to continue its voyage. Heaving-to is a perfectly respectable thing to do in this situation: a small foresail is rigged so as to push the boat's head away downwind, while the rudder is lashed over so as to turn into the wind. The resulting balance keeps the ship lying quietly while making little headway without it requiring a lot of attention from the crew. This was being done and the Bounty was duly sitting at a slight angle to the wind and sea, rolling a bit - quite a lot at times, possibly more than I would have been comfortable with. But heaving to in large, very steep seas has its downside, which is that an exceptionally large or steep wave could either roll the ship over, or break over the decks, swamping it. They may have tried this during Sandy and got caught out. Another thing that worried me was that the video was taken by a crewman wearing a head camera who had obviously come up on deck to make the video - he did nothing else. And - this is the point - he was *entirely alone* on deck: there was no-one watching the helm or keeping a lookout, which to my mind there should have been. Admittedly, keeping crew below in bad weather where they will be safer than on deck, can be a useful strategy. But most ships would have at least one designated watchperson on deck, to look out for exceptional waves or other ships in the vicinity. They would be suited and booted, wearing flotation gear and tied on with lifelines, but they would be there. To my mind this video raises a few additional questions of seamanship standards on the Bounty. Take a look and see what you think. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: gnu Date: 01 Nov 12 - 08:05 PM Interesting comments, Fossil. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: maeve Date: 01 Nov 12 - 08:18 PM Fossil: "Another thing that worried me was that the video was taken by a crewman wearing a head camera who had obviously come up on deck to make the video - he did nothing else. And - this is the point - he was *entirely alone* on deck: there was no-one watching the helm or keeping a lookout, which to my mind there should have been." Hmmm...Might want to take another look at the video Jack linked. At 2:08 I see two other crewmen on deck...near the foremast. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Joe_F Date: 01 Nov 12 - 08:36 PM Judgment, misjudgment, he's dead. Rest in peace. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Fossil Date: 01 Nov 12 - 08:39 PM I stand corrected - there are two other crewmen visible at about 2'30" - they are standing in the hatchway, wearing T-shirts and no safety gear at all, and are talking to each other, obviously not on watch nor keeping a lookout. They aren't visible in subsequent footage. But again, there are obvious breaks in the filming, so there is no real idea of how long a time period this video actually covers. Most yachties who sail the sea routes are well aware that a big container ship doing 20 knots or so can come up over the horizon and run you down in about 10 minutes. Which is why you try to keep a continuous lookout. A big sailing vessel like the Bounty would have radar reflectors, possibly its own radar set and will give a big signature on anyone else's radar, but you shouldn't be trusting the other fellow to be looking out for you... Yachts are regularly lost in the sea routes around Europe like this. Big ships are supposed to have watchkeepers on duty and mostly they do, but mistakes do get made every now and then. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 01 Nov 12 - 09:01 PM Fossil- Even with the video it's difficult to access what is happening. I'm sure someone was assigned to man the helm and someone else as lookout at all times. No captain worth his salt would do less. But we'll see what the investigation documents. The Coast Guard has announced that it has given up its search for Captain Walbridge. One wonders if he even wanted to be found. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Fossil Date: 01 Nov 12 - 09:11 PM Just random comments, really and you can't infer anything much from a video taken in other circumstances. I have sailed on tall ships myself and am terribly saddened by the loss of another one. By all accounts the skipper of the Bounty was a highly experienced sailor and a remarkable man and I do agree we mustn't rush to judgment. Doubtless an enquiry will be held in due course. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: GUEST,The Admiral Date: 01 Nov 12 - 09:20 PM The only people who've come out of this particular disaster (in more ways than one)with any credence are the US Coast Guard. Watching the video of the rescue from their point of view, my abiding memory will be hearing the voice (from the auto monitor of the altimeter, presumably) shouting (something like...) "Height, Height, Height"!. I'm guessing that this was because the aircraft was hovering at a steady height but the waves were reaching up to them. I've been at sea in the tail end of hurricane and stupid enough to be exhilerated by it. Whoever decided that ship should sail, they had enough warning, for goodness sake, is responsible for deaths and the loss of a remarkable ship. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Stanron Date: 01 Nov 12 - 10:56 PM It's a long time since I read on this subject but in the past I have read both Captains Slocum and Voss. They both wrote about strategies for coping with bad weather. One of the first actions they both took was to determine how their vessels behaved in the bad stuff. One of them advocated all sails down and the use of a sea anchor, essentially a cone of heavy duty fabric at the end of a long line from the bow with the point cut off. This held the bow of the boat into the wind which was felt to be the safest position. The other preferred to remove all sails and let the vessel find it's own position. In both cases they got down below and wedged themselves into some sort of secure position until it was all over. And of course it was only possible as long as they were far enough off shore. The point is that neither of them thought there was much point in anyone being above deck once the weather was so bad that they couldn't carry sail. I would not want to second guess an experienced skipper on the basis of a video and in the absence of pertinent information. I know that these two ships were smaller and there was only one person aboard still... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 02 Nov 12 - 09:21 AM The Captain's original plan to skirt this hurricane along its east side may have been confounded by its immense size (announced well in advance). The Bounty left from New London, CT, on Friday, October27. In order to skirt around the storm, which rotated counterclockwise with hurricane winds extending out almost 200 miles from its center, it would have had to plow into the wind for hundreds of miles before turning south. At some point Saturday evening the Captain elected to try to reverse course and sail between the advancing hurricane and the Cape Hatteras Shore. And there the ship was pinned and sunk. I am still dumbfounded that the Captain elected to risk his ship and crew in this (interject adjective of your choice) manner. This statement posted last Saturday on the Bounty's Facebook page will continue to haunt the owner and his staff: Riding the Storm Out...Day 2. ... Rest assured that the Bounty is safe and in very capable hands. Bounty's current voyage is a calculated decision ... NOT AT ALL ... irresponsible or with a lack of foresight as some have suggested. The fact of the matter is ... A SHIP IS SAFER AT SEA THAN IN PORT! Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Henry Krinkle Date: 02 Nov 12 - 09:30 AM Maybe suicide? =(:-( l) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 02 Nov 12 - 11:59 AM Henry- "Maybe suicide? " I really wouldn't be surprised. But then even a survival suit is little match for a full hurricane. We'll never know. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Henry Krinkle Date: 02 Nov 12 - 02:03 PM It's all very sad. =(:-( I) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: GUEST,Blowzabella sans cookie Date: 02 Nov 12 - 02:59 PM Here's some footage of Claudene Christian, singing and playing guitar http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbOSUP76s8E>/a> |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Amos Date: 02 Nov 12 - 03:19 PM In general, ships are safer when they have sea-room, but in this case--where the sea itself becomes an overwhelming maelstrom--there are too many examples in history where this would not be the case. I don't know where she would have been berthed if he had decided the other way, but that is all idle speculation now. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 02 Nov 12 - 05:44 PM The Bounty left New London, CT, Thursday afternoon for her dash south. No substantial damage was done by the hurricane to ships that stayed moored in New London or neighboring Mystic. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Sandy Mc Lean Date: 02 Nov 12 - 10:55 PM This is a photo that I mentioned earlier: Bounty |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: ChanteyLass Date: 03 Nov 12 - 12:06 AM This story continues to break my heart: the loss of a tall ship, even if it was a replica, and the sailing from New London, so close geographically and in spirit to my beloved Mystic, CT. Hindsight is always more accurate than foresight. And as much as I hate the loss of the ship, the loss of human lives is so much worse. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 03 Nov 12 - 09:58 AM Sandy- If I pull together a Bounty Facebook album I'll be sure to include the photo of her sailing off into the sunset. Any clue what the credit for the photo should be? This story is particularly sad for me because I've also visited aboard the Bounty several times in various ports, sang aboard her, and watched her major rebuilding in Boothbay Harbor back in 2006-2007. I only casually spoke to her crew members from time to time. I'm not sure what kind of song will come out of this experience but it's not one I'm in a hurry to begin. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Sandy Mc Lean Date: 03 Nov 12 - 10:28 AM Charlie, Feel free to use the photo. I am currently away from home but when I return I will be able to give you a higher resolution if you wish. Sandy |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Sandy Mc Lean Date: 03 Nov 12 - 10:39 AM Sorry for the spelling Charley! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 03 Nov 12 - 12:57 PM Sandy- Not to worry. I'm not very consistent myself! I'd love to have a higher resolution image. Charlie Ipcar, aka Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: GUEST,EBarnacle Date: 03 Nov 12 - 01:11 PM The coasties doing that rescue definitely lived up to their unofficial motto: The book says you gotta go out. It doesn't say anything about coming back. This goes back to when the rescue service was a bunch of lifeboats launched off the beaches of our coasts. We are very fortunate that all of the rescuers came back alive this time. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: ChanteyLass Date: 03 Nov 12 - 08:59 PM I had lunch today with a friend who lives in Newport, RI. She said that when the Bounty was docked in Newport as part of a Tall Ships events, she had worked as a volunteer and met the captain. Her job was to make sure that women did not wear high heels on the ship and to hand out cloth slippers for them. She said several women refused to wear them, saying they were ugly, and chose stay on the dock while friends and family members boarded the ship. She had been following the news reports closely and was quite distressed about it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 03 Nov 12 - 10:54 PM So far I've thought about composing a song in tribute to the Coast Guard. That's about the only creative option for now. I'm not sure what to do with the rest of the story. Probably best to wait and see what comes out in the inquiry. It's difficult for me to not to place some major blame on the captain; he is the one who decides to place the Bounty in harm's way, resulting in a cascade of events which sank her and took the life of one of his crew members and ultimately his own. I've been reviewing the various forum discussions from gCaptain, Woodenboat, and the Bounty Facebook page. Some very harsh things have been said on these forums, some from former Bounty crew members, some by experienced tall ship captains, and other deep sea mariners. Eventually we'll hear from the surviving crew members themselves. Let us join in wishing the surviving 14 crew members and their families, and the families of the two who perished, our deepest sympathy, and make a contribution to any memorial project they suggest. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Lonesome EJ Date: 04 Nov 12 - 06:04 PM Wrote a song today that became a tribute to this ship and her crew. I hope to get a version of this with slide show of the ship fairly soon. Thanks to Charley for starting this thread.... Bounty, Sail Away Original song Copyright 2012 by Ernest Johnson (Intro) Bm D A Bm D A (V 1) Bm D A Bm D A Endless rolling Blue No tale told more True Bm D A Bm D A Gray horizon haze Limit of our Days E A D And the Wind is the Melody E A D E In the Sails of our Destiny (V2) Bm D A Bm D A Rush of Hull on Wave The Gift the West Wind gave Bm D A Bm D A Wheel within the Hands Spins a Tale of Distant Lands E A D And the Force of her Plunging Bow E A D Turns the Foam like an Ocean Plow (CHO) A D E Bounty, Sail Away A D E (For the) Stars are in Your Wake D E D E Through the Storm Still safe from Harm D E A Bounty, Sail away Instrumental verse Bm D A Bm D A E A D E AD E (V 3) Bm D A Bm D A Far from Port and Home She must Forever Roam E A D Raise the Glass and you may Spy E A D E Her Sails against Horizon's Sky (CHO) A D E Bounty, Sail Away A D E (For the) Stars are in Your Wake D E D E Through the Storm Still safe from Harm D E A Bounty, Sail away (Repeat chorus and end) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 04 Nov 12 - 08:13 PM Lonesome EJ- I really like what you've done. If you send me your e-mail address via PM, I'll send you some photos that I think might fit in well with your slide show. Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: ChanteyLass Date: 05 Nov 12 - 05:37 PM That sounds like a slideshow I'll want to see and hear. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 05 Nov 12 - 05:43 PM Yes, I'm looking forward to it as well. I've sent some photos and notes to Lonesome EJ. Here's another update: November 2, LA Times: Rex Halbeisen, a friend of (Claudene) Christian, said he received an email from her before she died at sea saying she was worried about the storm and the condition of the ship. "She was very concerned for their safety and was 'praying to God that going to sea was the right decision,' " Halbeisen told the Los Angeles Times. "You know me, I am not a mechanical person but the generators and engines on this ship are not the most reliable," Christian said, according to email text provided by Halbeisen. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 06 Nov 12 - 03:59 PM ABC News broadcast an interview with the 14 survivors of the Bounty sinking this morning: click here for video! Not much new information but it was good to hear what they had to say in their own words: For first mate John Svendsen the call to abandon ship was one of the toughest he'd ever made. "We determined a safe time when we knew the ship would still be stable and we could get everyone on deck and change our focus from saving the ship to saving every life," said Svendsen, who credits Capt. Wallbridge's endless drills and preparation for the 14 lives that were saved. But the ship's leadership lost all control once a giant wave broadsided the ship, knocking some of the crew -- already in their survival suits -- into the roiling sea. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Sandy Mc Lean Date: 08 Nov 12 - 07:31 PM Some perspective here from an original crew member. CBC News |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 08 Nov 12 - 09:24 PM Sandy- That's a nice story from an old Bounty crew member. Thanks! I think we add to the record that most, if not all, of the surviving crew members were tossed into the sea as the ship rolled over on its side and had to swim to get into the two life rafts. One surviving crew member didn't make it into a life raft and was recovered first by the Coast Guard, if I've got the story straight. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Lonesome EJ Date: 10 Nov 12 - 12:47 AM Rough track available for listening..... here |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 10 Nov 12 - 09:24 AM Lonesome EJ- You've been busy! Good work! You've certainly got the tune and arrangement down. See my PM for technical suggestions. I think this could be a very powerful song, and a comfort to those most directly involved. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Lonesome EJ Date: 12 Nov 12 - 12:35 AM Here's the final Youtube version with slide show Bounty Sail Away |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: GUEST,Dani Date: 12 Nov 12 - 06:42 AM Heard this interview yesterday with some of the Coast Guard folks who rescued crew members. I think of all those shipwrecks before there was any such thing, and before life-saving equipment and (gasp!) swimming lessons: http://thestory.org/archive/20121109_The_Story__Assignment_Afghanistan.mp3/view Dani |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 12 Nov 12 - 10:07 AM Lonesome EJ- Excellent work on your tribute to the Bounty and her crew. I like your presentation of the songs, and the photos reinforce what you are singing. You may want to post the song above as well as a Lyrics Add. Now that the story is off the front page, it's unlike that many people are following it down below in the BS depths. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: ChanteyLass Date: 12 Nov 12 - 07:42 PM I like the song and the photos. Thank you for posting the link here, Lonesome EJ. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 14 Nov 12 - 08:22 AM Here's a very well done instrumental homage to the Bounty and her crew done by James Spalink with some wonderful photos: Click for video! Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Lonesome EJ Date: 14 Nov 12 - 01:02 PM Very haunting! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 14 Nov 12 - 03:21 PM EJ- I note that Spalink also did a good job of harvesting photos for his slide show, including some that you used. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Lonesome EJ Date: 14 Nov 12 - 03:44 PM Charley, there are indeed many, many photos and paintings of the ship, probably mainly due to promotions of her as a tourist attraction, but also because something about the Bounty seemed to capture a lost sense of adventure and freedom that you just don't see in a powered seacraft. Looking at the many photos, I was impressed with the craftsmanship given to her building and decoration, and her graceful appearance under sail, and even at anchor. A thing that has the handwork of so many humans in it seems to take on a human aspect of its own. She looked as though she had a soul. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: gnu Date: 14 Nov 12 - 06:32 PM Well said, LEJ... she did. All the souls of those that built her and sailed her. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 14 Nov 12 - 10:07 PM That's why I get excited when a group drags a derelict such as the barque James Craig from the mudflats of Tasmania, tows her back to Sydney Harbour, totally rebuilds her, and then periodically sails her. I helps start the first sea music sessions aboard her and today I learned they just held another. Wish I could have been there! The Mystic Seaport Museum is in the process of totally rebuilding the whaling bark Charles W. Morgan and when she's finished they plan to sail her back to New Bedford for a revisit; the last time she was there was a hundred or so years ago! And it is sad when one of these beautiful sailing ships goes down, taking all the hopes and dreams with her of those who loved her best. And sadder still when the captain in the case of the Bounty takes unnecessary risks and miscalculates. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Peter Kasin Date: 15 Nov 12 - 12:43 AM The Bounty holds a special place in my heart as this was my first ship, crewing aboard her in the summer, 1991. My deepest sympathy for the families of the captain and crew member lost, and to all her crew. Long may the Bounty be remembered for inspiring her many crew members over years. -Chanteyranger |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: ChanteyLass Date: 16 Nov 12 - 09:32 AM And here is news of the remains of an old shipwreck on Fire Island. The remains of the ship were exposed by Hurricane Sandy. http://news.yahoo.com/hurricane-sandy-exposes-fire-island-shipwreck-215513409.html;_ylt=A2KLOzJyTaZQUgMAbavQtDMD |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 16 Nov 12 - 10:29 AM ChanteyLass- Interesting story and haunting photo. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 13 Feb 13 - 10:04 PM The formal inquiry has begun: Click here for update! Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 14 Feb 13 - 09:28 PM Rant alert! I probably shouldn't be surprised that Mudcatters lack interest in the rest of this story, after the prime time media has also shifted its attention to other news-breakers. However, I am still disappointed. But there is still interest manifest in other forums such as g-Captain, Wooden Boat, and Historic Ships. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Jeri Date: 14 Feb 13 - 10:05 PM I'm interested in the "rest of this story", but that doesn't mean I have anything to say about an investigation that's just begun. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: ChanteyLass Date: 14 Feb 13 - 10:43 PM Charley, don't count us 'Catters out so quickly. You posted on Wednesday after I'd finished with all the BS threads (but not necessarily the music threads), and tonight I have just found this. It will be interesting to follow this story. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Amos Date: 15 Feb 13 - 01:15 AM The core issue was the Captain's decision to outrun a storm that was already on record as being unusually ferocious. It will be interesting to see if their were any issues with their refit, scantlings or other compliance issues. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 15 Feb 13 - 08:19 AM I was just feeling especially grumpy yesterday after a hard day's work. The rest of this story I feel will be important, even if it is not completed until months after the event. There was testimony yesterday by shipyard workers in Boothbay saying that they had discovered additional rotting planking in the hull during the month long renovation, and that the Captain ignored their findings and ordered the crew to just paint over the planking. The Mate has also testified that the Captain had rejected several appeals to abandon ship before finally conceding that the ship had to be abandoned, and then it proved too late to properly abandon the ship. The ship heeled over and the Captain some crew members were flung in the water, three never making it to the life rafts (one was rescued later by the Coast Guard helicopter crew). Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: vectis Date: 15 Feb 13 - 08:34 AM Shades of Marquese here I reckon. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Bat Goddess Date: 15 Feb 13 - 08:50 AM Didn't see this thread in the limited Mudcat time I have. Even if I had, there was nothing really to say at that point. I find it especially disturbing, though, that rotted hull planking was ignored and just painted over. Linn |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 15 Feb 13 - 09:06 AM Here's the link to g-Captain's summary of the testimony from the Boothbay Shipyard foreman about rotten framing: click here for update! There's also damning testimony from the insurance surveyor who appears to have had an all too cozy relationship with the Captain, and only inspected the ship in Boothbay from the outside after she was relaunched. I am getting more and more angry and depressed by the mismanagement of this vintage ship. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Greg F. Date: 15 Feb 13 - 06:10 PM It would seem to be fairly obvious from the get-go back in October that the captain is an idiot. Pretty much sums up the disaster. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: ClaireBear Date: 15 Feb 13 - 08:02 PM Fascinating, Charley. Thank you for the link! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: ChanteyLass Date: 15 Feb 13 - 11:24 PM Yes, thank you. I am still following this thread but waiting for more testimony. Hindsight is better than foresight, and I hate second-guessing, but . . . . |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Amos Date: 16 Feb 13 - 01:03 AM IF he was an eejit, which is certainly wihtin the realm of the possible, he is most likely a dead eejit. Unless he washed ashore in Belize and decoded to change his name. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 16 Feb 13 - 12:14 PM No, I don't think the Captain was an idiot. But he was willing to turn a blind eye to documented conditions on his ship which compromised her safety. Then he had the bad judgment to take such a ship out to sea when there was a well-publicized hurricane coming in from the South. Finally, he made the fatally bad decision to try to cross in front of this advancing hurricane. Calling the Captain an idiot lets him off too lightly, in my opinion. He may well have been criminally negligent. I expect a very harsh judgement from the Coast Guard Inquiry Board. And I would hope that former Bounty crew members and other vintage ship crew members would not turn a blind eye to the lessons that should be learned from this unnecessary disaster. I may come up with an angry song, finally, and it may well be titled "Turning a Blind Eye to the Storm." There's already a fine ballad titled "Bounty Farewell." Charley Noble, still on his rant |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Greg F. Date: 17 Feb 13 - 10:28 AM Then he had the bad judgment to take such a ship out to sea when there was a well-publicized hurricane coming...Finally, he made the fatally bad decision to try to cross in front of this advancing hurricane Well, that qualifies him as an idiot in my book, Charley, but that doesn't mean that he wasn't criminally negilgent as well. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: ChanteyLass Date: 17 Feb 13 - 02:23 PM The hearing has already revealed some interesting information. I wonder what is to come. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 17 Feb 13 - 07:13 PM Here's a link to Day 4 of the hearings as summarized on the g-Captain Forum: click here for update! The third mate and bosun were being questioned. Evidently neither had the experience and training to do their job of maintaining the integrity of the hull during repairs. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Pete Jennings Date: 18 Feb 13 - 12:56 PM They used a household glazing compound to caulk an ocean-going timber ship?!! DAP 33 doesn't sound like a suitable product for caulking... Any old sea dogs here? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Greg F. Date: 18 Feb 13 - 02:15 PM Household glazing? - One more vote for being idiots..... who put these fools in charge of this ship, anyway? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: ChanteyLass Date: 18 Feb 13 - 03:53 PM It just gets worse doesn't it? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 19 Feb 13 - 07:59 AM "Who put these fools in charge of this ship, anyway?" The Captain and he's no longer around to answer that question. The Bounty was classified as a "wharfside attraction" rather than as a passenger-carrying tall ship. She was thus able to avoid more stringent Coast Guard licensing regulations. She was considered a "private yacht" when traveling from one port to another. The consequences of this "shellgame" finally caught up with her, as it will with many of the other vintage tall-ships which engage in similar efforts to circumvent basic safety regulations. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 19 Feb 13 - 08:09 AM Here's a link to the 5th day of testimony via g-Captain titled "Sins of Omission": click for update! Evidently is was common practice not to test the regular pumps or their back-ups before going to sea, for concern about "wearing them out." The failure of the pumps and the crew's inability to get the back-up pumps top work were critical factors in the sinking of the Bounty. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 20 Feb 13 - 05:26 PM Here's the chorus that I've been working on for a song "Never Turn a Blind Eye to the Storm" about this sad sinking (Copy and paste into WORD/TIMES/12 to line up chords): Chorus: C--------------D------------------G------Em Never turn a blind eye to the storm, I say; ------C------------D--------------------Em----------------D The sea is unfor-giving and she'll snatch your life a-way; C--------------------D-----------------------Em Learn your trade, weigh the risks, and you'll see better days, ---------C-----D------------------Em Never turn a blind eye to the storm, ---------C-----D------------------G Never turn a blind eye to the storm! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: ChanteyLass Date: 20 Feb 13 - 08:06 PM . . . and still worse. This had better not happen to the Charles W. Morgan! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Amos Date: 20 Feb 13 - 10:50 PM Failing to test shipboard equipment because it might wear out is the ultimate in irrational tomfoolery. That's exactly why you DO test them!! Jaysus!!!! I would have had these barnacle-suckers scraping paint in the bilge, if they tried that nonsense. I swan! Either that or transferred to hand-copying office-supply invoices in the shore office. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: EBarnacle Date: 23 Feb 13 - 09:43 AM I believe that Slocum said it best: Any vessel which makes port can thank the mercies of divine providence. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: catspaw49 Date: 23 Feb 13 - 01:02 PM Charley and I had some early conversations on this but it must have been a different thread or on FB because I don't see them here. In any case, I've been following this case and feel pretty ready to issue my own judgement........I am surprised that this ship was still afloat to even try to act so stupidly with! What sunk Bounty started awhile back with the Captain's ego and the owner's lack of care. I guess the Captain was a nice guy who enjoyed the training of rookies into the world of sailing and specifically sailing tall, wooden, boats. That's very nice and even admirable. But the majority of them lacked any wooden boat experience and also most lacked any tall ship experience. To take such a crew as he had out into a storm when he didn't have to do so? I'd say that was insane. Even more insane is to take a boat in such bad condition as Bounty into a storm unnecessarily. To do both? The mind boggles. All I can figure is he must have believed himself invincible and I know of no one with any sailing experience at all who believes that........And let's recall the biggest mistake of all was something most of us know which is you choose life over death and your crew over a boat. Even if the Bounty had been perfect, he should never have left port. The idea of so many lost for no good reason and to put the CG recuers in jeopardy............There's a bit of insanity in this somewhere............. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 23 Feb 13 - 01:28 PM Spaw- We are in total agreement on this one. Here's the final summary of the Coast Guard Bounty hearing by retired Coast Guard officer Mario Vittone: click for update! This is a Facebook link to a professional mariner's Forum. Vittone shows a lot of compassion for the Bounty crew members but he refuses to turn a blind eye to their lack of experience and rigorous training, or the aging condition of the ship and its equipment. The conclusions by the Coast Guard board should be similar. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: ChanteyLass Date: 23 Feb 13 - 05:28 PM I hope so! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Bat Goddess Date: 23 Feb 13 - 08:04 PM The Bounty was classified as a "wharfside attraction" rather than as a passenger-carrying tall ship. She was thus able to avoid more stringent Coast Guard licensing regulations. She was considered a "private yacht" when traveling from one port to another. The consequences of this "shellgame" finally caught up with her, as it will with many of the other vintage tall-ships which engage in similar efforts to circumvent basic safety regulations. Soo...it was pretty obvious they were operating on a shoestring. She's been for sale since 2010. Who are the owners? What were their orders to the captain about the maintenance of the ship? Who profits from taking the risks? And there were so MANY risks, even under the best of conditions. Merde! Tom and I were out in the middle of the Piscataqua on her a couple years ago! Two people died and the ship is lost. But what of the owners? Ach! Linn |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 23 Feb 13 - 09:25 PM Linn- Those are the critical questions. They may explain why Captain Walbridge felt he had to set sail late Thursday afternoon and make it to St. Petersburg in time to meet the new donors who might bail out the Bounty. Or not! We just don't know why he made such an incomprehensible decision. "Safer at sea in a storm" just doesn't cut it, given the rotted frames of the Bounty and the competence of the crew as a whole; the engineer was a critical new hire and was not a licensed engineer; at the Coast Guard Inquiry he was unable to explain how the basic systems of the ship were supposed to work! My song "Never Turn a Blind Eye to the Storm" is posted above. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: GUEST,Fossil at work Date: 24 Feb 13 - 02:53 AM I've been reading the news of the enquiry and the stories coming out of it with increasing incredulity. Any sailor - particularly those who go out on the deep waters - has a healthy fear of the sea and its power. Just be out in one big storm, realise the truth in the old prayer "Oh Lord, the sea is so big and my boat is so small...." and you will never take chances again. How did this get short-circuited in the case of the Bounty? The ship had sailed through a lot of bad weather in its time and this might have contributed to the feeling of invincibilty which was the captain's undoing. I nevertheless have the feeling that the rotten framing, the use of household products to caulk the seams, all this is a sideshow. The seas the Bounty sailed into were more than capable of sinking her, even if she had just come new from the maker's yard. It was the decision to sail out into the hurricane that sealed her fate. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: catspaw49 Date: 24 Feb 13 - 09:18 AM Fossil.......I would tend to agree but I can't quite relegate all of the other factors to a sideshow. Going out at all was an error of tragic proportion and I doubt we find out why as the man who made the decision is dead. He too may have been responsible for the other problems but I think that warrants more investigation to find if there was pressure from the ownership. The experience factor of the crew and their actual knowledge of their jobs and their ability to perform them is very troubling. While training new people in the skills needed is an important task, sailing with an entire crew (almost) of newbies to that world is a plan for failure. Attraction versus sailing ship is a problem. Just too many others to mention........None as critical as going out into the storm but one helluva' large sideshow! Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Jeri Date: 24 Feb 13 - 10:06 AM On Charley's song (the chorus is posted above): On Facebook, I wrote The major problem is that turning "a blind eye to the storm" was only the final straw. Maybe you meant it ironically?I've been in organizations with all sorts of leaders. Ones who want to be liked and aren't big on boat-rocking are dangerous. You can have an ignorant boss with an experienced crew, and it works if they listen to each other. You can have an experienced boss with an ignorant crew, and it works if they listen to each other. Somebody needed to challenge the way things were being done, but if the captain didn't know, and the crew didn't know, who should it have been. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 24 Feb 13 - 10:18 AM The song itself "Never Turn a Blind Eye to the Storm" is now posted above as an ADD LYRIC thread and is also pasted to my Facebook page. The lyrics and a MP3 sample of how I sing it can be found on my website:http://www.charlieipcar.com/ I couldn't agree with Jeri more. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Bat Goddess Date: 24 Feb 13 - 10:46 AM We'll never know what Captain Walbridge was thinking or what pressures the owners or his conscience were putting on him. Knowing what he did about the ship's condition and risking his crew was totally reprehensible and irresponsible. I wouldn't be surprised if his last decision was to go down with the ship and he purposely let himself slip away. It's a very sad story all the way around. Linn |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: catspaw49 Date: 24 Feb 13 - 01:27 PM I wouldn't be surprised if his last decision was to go down with the ship and he purposely let himself slip away. Yeah.......I had that thought and I'm willing to bet it has been in the minds of those doing the investigation as well as most who have follwed the case. Yet again, another thing we may never know. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 24 Feb 13 - 05:23 PM There was some testimony from crew members at the inquiry that Captain Walbridge was injured as the Bounty began her last serious of abrupt rolls. He was seen to get up from the deck again but that was the last time he was seen. I was told by retired Coast Guard officer Mario Vittone that it would be weeks if not months before the Coast Guard Panel released its conclusions. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Greg F. Date: 24 Feb 13 - 05:32 PM We'll never know what Captain Walbridge was thinking Its rather patently obvious that the Cap'n WASN'T thinking, period, and that's what led to this disaster. Never misunderestimate the power of hubris & stupidity. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Bob Bolton Date: 25 Feb 13 - 11:34 PM G'day Charlie, It's been very saddening to read all the saga of the loss of this lovely ship and the loss of lives. She used to operate in Sydney ... doing tourist runs - mainly around the Harbour. I can remember using her, while moored, as a backdrop to some promotional photos of one of our 'Colonial Dancing' groups ... some years back! A high-school classmate of my youngest brother - who also is a workmate to me in what is now called Ausgrid ... Sydney's main electricity distributor used to crew on her ... Regards, Bob |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 26 Feb 13 - 07:48 PM Bob- I think that ship in Sydney Harbour was a different Bounty. There is another summary at gCaptain Facebook Forum of the 8th day of testimony and questioning. No new revelations. But Mario Vitonne observed that the professional crew, the officers, were much more circumspect in their answers than the deckhands. The truth, so to speak, will take a longer period of time to surface. There is a vivid description of how it was to be working in the engine room with the water rising around one, trying to keep the generators going to operate the pumps, as various electrical components died a fiery death. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Bob Bolton Date: 26 Feb 13 - 08:57 PM G'day Charley, Thanks for that! I've just accessed an entry on the various 'film replicas' and the one I saw, for a number of years in Sydney was a rather metallic Bounty! This is its history panel: "A second Bounty replica, named HMAV Bounty, was built in New Zealand in 1979 and used in the 1984 Dino De Laurentiis film The Bounty. The hull is constructed of welded steel oversheathed with timber. For many years she served the tourist excursion market from Darling Harbour, Sydney, Australia, before being sold to HKR International Limited in October 2007. She is now a tourist attraction (also used for charter, excursions and sail training) based in Discovery Bay, on Lantau Island in Hong Kong, and has an additional Chinese name." Your fully wood construction "Bounty" is, in many respects, a far greater loss! Regards, Bob |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: ChanteyLass Date: 23 Oct 14 - 10:00 PM This morning I went to an author talk about this book.http://www.amazon.com/Rescue-Bounty-Disaster-Survival-Superstorm/dp/147674663X I have not read the book, but the author seemed to have done a lot of research. |
