BS: The RNVR who were they ?

Subject: BS: The RNVR who were they ?
From: GUEST,Beachcomber
Date: 29 Oct 12 - 11:23 AM

I discovered quite recently that an uncle of whom I knew very little, had been in the RNVR during WW1.
Prior to that he had joined a ship called the "Hindustan" as an Apprentice C. 1913. Going on the V of the initials in this branch of the British services, can I assume that he would have to have volunteered ? What changes would being enlisted in the RNVR have made to him at that time ? Would he have had to transfer to a Naval Vessel ? Generally speaking, who were in the RNVR in 1914 ?

My uncle contracted TB in later years and died in 1929, at home in Ireland.
My people spoke little of him and I believe now that this was because he had been in the British Forces. He was the oldest of the family and the first to die. It must have been difficult in every way.

Subject: RE: BS: The RNVR who were they ?
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 29 Oct 12 - 11:43 AM

The Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve was established in 1903. It was manned by civilians who trained several weeks a year under RN officers for possible naval service in an emergency. The RNVR was subsumed by the Royal Naval Reserve in the 1950s.

That's about all I know. Presumably there would have been a good number of fishermen and merchant sailors in its ranks.

Subject: RE: BS: The RNVR who were they ?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 29 Oct 12 - 01:16 PM

This may be part of the reason that he wasn't spoken of in the family.

Subject: RE: BS: The RNVR who were they ?
From: gnomad
Date: 29 Oct 12 - 01:22 PM

Going on a memory of long-ago reading here, so this may not be gospel:

RNR = men whose normal functions took them to sea full time, served as a reserve to the RN in times of crisis.

RNVR = Men whose normal activities were ashore, but having a long term interest in boating (an expensive middle- to upper-class hobby) Also served as a reserve to the RN in times of crisis.

I believe that both groups generally went into the wardroom, the ratings coming more from the conscripts, and of course the regular RN.

Wisdom of the era consequently had it that the RNR was sailors trying to be gentlemen, whereas the RNVR was gentlemen trying to be sailors.

Subject: RE: BS: The RNVR who were they ?
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 29 Oct 12 - 01:38 PM

JM, disgusting. Something similar happened after WW1, though that was slightly more comprehensible.

When Hitler's death was announced, Irish P.M. de Valera visited the German ambassador in Dublin to express his condolences.

Personally. A note or an aide wasn't good enough.

Subject: RE: BS: The RNVR who were they ?
From: Charmion
Date: 29 Oct 12 - 03:30 PM

My father served throughout the war as a "hostilities only" member of the Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve, having been conscripted on Day 2 of the war (or thereabouts). He was an engineering student at the University of London at the time.

As gnomad points out above, conscripts were assigned to the VR. This was done to avoid wrestling with the complex regulations surrounding the number of personnel serving in the Royal Navy and the Royal Naval Reserve, their terms of service, and their qualifications.

Subject: RE: BS: The RNVR who were they ?
From: GUEST,Beachcomber
Date: 29 Oct 12 - 06:15 PM

Wow, I seem to have stirred up a hornet or two with my family based query. Sorry for rousing you fellows I am however grateful to Lighter for his clarification of my uncle's position regarding WW1. Thanks also to Charmion and Gnomad.
I see no point in debating what must by now be a well rehearsed argument with the others, concerning Ireland's relationship with the UK during WW2, so, thanks again.

Subject: RE: BS: The RNVR who were they ?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 29 Oct 12 - 07:06 PM

The "Wavy Navy", so called because their rank stripes were not straight lines as in the RN and RNR, but zigzags on the sleeve of the uniform in home waters, and on the epaulettes on their shirts in tropical waters.

They were officers, a few conscripted but mostly volunteers, for the duration of hostilities and served alongside regular officers on all kinds of ships. Looked on with suspicion at the start, they earned the respect of the regulars, and some even rose to command ships in WW2.

My first boss had joined in 1939 as a sub lieutenant and spent most of his sea time running the gauntlet of U Boats and Condors between Scapa Flow and Murmansk.

He finished up as skipper of a corvette by the end of the war.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: The RNVR who were they ?
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 29 Oct 12 - 09:10 PM

Wasn't James Bond a Lieutenant Commander in the RNVR?

Subject: RE: BS: The RNVR who were they ?
From: GUEST,Charmion's brother Andrew
Date: 30 Oct 12 - 06:55 AM

He supposed to be Commander James Bond, RNR.

Subject: RE: BS: The RNVR who were they ?
From: GUEST,Charmion's brother Andrew
Date: 30 Oct 12 - 07:00 AM

Some wag's view of British naval officers in the Second War:
Royal Navy = gentlemen trying to be sailors
Royal Naval Reserve = sailors trying to be gentlemen
Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve = neither trying to be both

Subject: RE: BS: The RNVR who were they ?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 30 Oct 12 - 07:09 AM

Doesn't work Andrew, since the RNR were and are pretty well all ex Royal Navy regulars and therefore liable to recall, while RNVR were civilian volunteers, who, after the war gave up some of their free time to training along the lines of the Territorial Army and were available at future need as volunteers until the 1950s, when they were subsumed.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: The RNVR who were they ?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 01:57 PM

John MacKenzie posted:

< From: John MacKenzie - PM
< Date: 29 Oct 12 - 01:16 PM

< This may be part of the reason that he wasn't spoken of in the family.

For those who read the article he linked, the note posted today by NBC:

Ireland PM in historic tribute to veterans on British Remembrance Day

"By NBC News staff and wire reports
"BELFAST - Ireland's prime minister laid a wreath to honor fallen soldiers at a British Remembrance Day service for the first time on Sunday, the latest gesture of reconciliation between historic foes.
…"

Includes:

"With relations with Britain the warmest for decades, the Irish government in June pardoned thousands of servicemen who deserted to fight for the Allied forces during World War Two."

This may be old news to those closer to it, but it's the first mention I've seen of anything done relating to those volunteers, and could be of interest for those who, like me, missed it when it happened.

John

Subject: RE: BS: The RNVR who were they ?
From: Charmion
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 02:52 PM

Hi, Don: When some wag coined that definition of RNR personnel as "sailors trying to be officers", it was about 1940 and the RNR consisted of merchant mariners qualified as bridge watch-keepers. After the war, the VR was abolished, the RNR became what you describe, and the merchant skippers and mates went back to hauling cargo for commercial owners -- but no longer liable for naval service.