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Meaning 'hombre' in song 4 legged friend

Mo the caller 04 Nov 12 - 03:10 PM
GUEST,Ebor_Fiddler 04 Nov 12 - 03:15 PM
GUEST,999 04 Nov 12 - 03:15 PM
Mo the caller 04 Nov 12 - 03:23 PM
Mo the caller 04 Nov 12 - 03:27 PM
MGM·Lion 04 Nov 12 - 03:28 PM
MGM·Lion 04 Nov 12 - 03:30 PM
McGrath of Harlow 04 Nov 12 - 03:30 PM
Jeri 04 Nov 12 - 04:05 PM
Bonzo3legs 04 Nov 12 - 04:19 PM
GUEST,Lighter 04 Nov 12 - 04:39 PM
Mo the caller 04 Nov 12 - 05:06 PM
McGrath of Harlow 04 Nov 12 - 06:07 PM
GUEST,Lighter 04 Nov 12 - 06:32 PM
JohnInKansas 04 Nov 12 - 10:36 PM
MartinRyan 05 Nov 12 - 05:22 AM
Rob Naylor 05 Nov 12 - 05:56 AM
MGM·Lion 05 Nov 12 - 08:15 AM
Mo the caller 05 Nov 12 - 10:48 AM
Bonzo3legs 05 Nov 12 - 10:53 AM
JohnInKansas 05 Nov 12 - 11:53 PM
Tattie Bogle 06 Nov 12 - 02:34 AM
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Subject: Meaning 'hombre' in song 4 legged friend
From: Mo the caller
Date: 04 Nov 12 - 03:10 PM

In the song Four Legged Friend , 3rd verse, what is the meaning of the line
"A two legged hombre is worthless as sand"

It's not a term in common use here. Would it have racist overtones?

The second verse could be read, nowadays, as sexist or at least misogynistic.


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Subject: RE: Meaning 'hombre' in song 4 legged friend
From: GUEST,Ebor_Fiddler
Date: 04 Nov 12 - 03:15 PM

"Hombre" is the Spanish word for "man". Not everybody speaks American.


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Subject: RE: Meaning 'hombre' in song 4 legged friend
From: GUEST,999
Date: 04 Nov 12 - 03:15 PM

Hombre is a Spanish word meaning man. Nothing racist or bad about it that I've ever known about. Mush as one might use the locution, "Hey, man, you got a light?", one might use also buddy, homes, hombre.


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Subject: RE: Meaning 'hombre' in song 4 legged friend
From: Mo the caller
Date: 04 Nov 12 - 03:23 PM

So is he saying that All women are hurtful as a prickly cactus and ALL men are treacherous and worthless as sand?


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Subject: RE: Meaning 'hombre' in song 4 legged friend
From: Mo the caller
Date: 04 Nov 12 - 03:27 PM

I suspected that was the derivation, but as it's not a word in common use in England, if I sang it here maybe people would think I was refering to a non-Englishman.


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Subject: RE: Meaning 'hombre' in song 4 legged friend
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 04 Nov 12 - 03:28 PM

Yes. It is from a Bob Hope film. He was a comedian. It is a joke. Meant to be funny. He is singing to his horse, whose virtues he praises hyperbolically, in contrast to the equally hyperbolically expressed deficiencies of humanity.

Geddit?

~M~


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Subject: RE: Meaning 'hombre' in song 4 legged friend
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 04 Nov 12 - 03:30 PM

Cross-posted ~~ that 'yes' was in reply to your penultimate post, Mo.


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Subject: RE: Meaning 'hombre' in song 4 legged friend
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Nov 12 - 03:30 PM

Yes. Nothing racist or sexist in that. It's just that Roy prefers horses to yahoos, like Gulliver. Maybe if it had been Trigger singing you could argue it was speciesist...


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Subject: RE: Meaning 'hombre' in song 4 legged friend
From: Jeri
Date: 04 Nov 12 - 04:05 PM

McGrath has it.
He likes his horse.

...a lot.


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Subject: RE: Meaning 'hombre' in song 4 legged friend
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 04 Nov 12 - 04:19 PM

It's just a song for fucks sake!!


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Subject: RE: Meaning 'hombre' in song 4 legged friend
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 04 Nov 12 - 04:39 PM

Needless to say, among non-Spanish speakers it's associated almost entirely with cowboys and the Southwest, chiefly as depicted in old movies ("oaters") and pulp Westerns.


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Subject: RE: Meaning 'hombre' in song 4 legged friend
From: Mo the caller
Date: 04 Nov 12 - 05:06 PM

Thanks for the background MtheGM. I geddit.
I never saw the film but it was a popular song of my childhood. Often played on the wireless.
I was reminded of it when I asked for Cowboy songs for 7 year olds, in another thread.
If I'm going to sing it I need to think about the meaning it will have in the context I sing it, as well as in the original context. Even if it is 'just a song', Bonzo.


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Subject: RE: Meaning 'hombre' in song 4 legged friend
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Nov 12 - 06:07 PM

Same meaning in any context. Humans tend to be a pretty dodgy mob. But since it's a human (I presume) singing it it clearly allows for the existance of exceptions.

So no one should feel required to be offended. Anyone who does feel offended needs to lie down in a dark room.

If anyone doesn't know "hombre" just means "bloke" the song provides an opportunity to extend their vocabulary just a teeny bit.


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Subject: RE: Meaning 'hombre' in song 4 legged friend
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 04 Nov 12 - 06:32 PM

Come to think of it, it usually implies a formidable or suspicious sort of fellow: "a tough hombre," "Who is that hombre?"

But it does sound odd outside of an Old-West context.


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Subject: RE: Meaning 'hombre' in song 4 legged friend
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 04 Nov 12 - 10:36 PM

In the US "cowboy country" there was sufficient Spanish influence that everybody used quite a few Spanish terms interchangeably with English ones. (And in some places they still do, without even recognizing any distiction as to origin.)

Hombre is just a generic term for "man," or in sexually neutral context for "mankind" or "human."

Almost, although maybe a little less common might be "Señor" for the masculine "you" or "Señorita" for an unmarried woman, and Señora for a married one.

A house is still often a "hacienda" in much of the Southwest US. (but used most often only if it's a relatively "fine" house). "Casa" is also used for house or home, with less implication that you live in an "impressive estate."

Spanish is especially rich in profanities and or double-entendres as the language is used in the same areas, and these do pop up in common speech, but mostly with no ethnic or racial implications unless the context makes something other than the generic meanings obvious. It's just the way "the good ol' boys talk" in informal contexts.

A nickel (or maybe a dollar after inflation) for every time some western actor in an "oater" movie used the term "hombre" to refer generically to a male person probably would buy a DVD of every one of such movies ever made. (John Wayne used it a lot.)

If there's a problem with your audience understanding it, just say "man" (or "critter," if they'll understand that and the metre is important) instead of "hombre." It's unlikely to change either meaning or inuendo, since the context in which the word appears will give the same meanings regardless of which is used.

John


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Subject: RE: Meaning 'hombre' in song 4 legged friend
From: MartinRyan
Date: 05 Nov 12 - 05:22 AM

In the context of flamenco song and dance, you will often hear Spanish listeners almost-muttering the word Hombre! when admiring a particular turn in the playing or dancing. (Digression: must find out how to invert an exclamation mark!) The Hiberno-English equivalent would be - "Ya boy, ye!". in the same tone of voice! ;>)>

Regards


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Subject: RE: Meaning 'hombre' in song 4 legged friend
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 05 Nov 12 - 05:56 AM

Mo, I'm surprised that you think that "hombre" would have the connotation of referring to a non-English man. It's obviously a "western" type song and almost anyone in England who's seen westerns (ie almost everyone!) will understand both the word and how it's used in the context of the song.


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Subject: RE: Meaning 'hombre' in song 4 legged friend
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 05 Nov 12 - 08:15 AM

OTOH, John, surely 'critter' [= creature] refers to any living organism, not necessarily human?

~M~


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Subject: RE: Meaning 'hombre' in song 4 legged friend
From: Mo the caller
Date: 05 Nov 12 - 10:48 AM

Rob, the last time I happened to be in the same room as a screen with a Western on it must have been 45 yrs ago and I wasn't paying attention to exact word use.
And the 7 yr olds i might have sung it to (and their parents) were born after the days of Saturday morning cinema.

The verse of the song was derogatory, I wanted to know who I was insulting, if I sang it.


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Subject: RE: Meaning 'hombre' in song 4 legged friend
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 05 Nov 12 - 10:53 AM

No me digas!


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Subject: RE: Meaning 'hombre' in song 4 legged friend
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 05 Nov 12 - 11:53 PM

Correct that "critter" is a non-specific term, but with the exception of Chongo the only two-legged ones likely to in the song would suggest what is meant in most contexts.

On Western European keyboards:

Alt-0161 should give ¡ or in html you can use ¡

Alt-0191 should give ¿ or in html code it ¿

John


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Subject: RE: Meaning 'hombre' in song 4 legged friend
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 06 Nov 12 - 02:34 AM

Now if it had been "dago" that is more likely to be construed as insulting, but I'd agree that hombre = bloke in this context.


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