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BS: Obama Wins!!!

Bobert 06 Nov 12 - 11:31 PM
GUEST 06 Nov 12 - 11:36 PM
sciencegeek 06 Nov 12 - 11:37 PM
Henry Krinkle 06 Nov 12 - 11:42 PM
Don Firth 06 Nov 12 - 11:49 PM
GUEST,999 06 Nov 12 - 11:52 PM
Ron Davies 06 Nov 12 - 11:54 PM
Henry Krinkle 06 Nov 12 - 11:57 PM
GUEST,Lighter 07 Nov 12 - 12:01 AM
Wesley S 07 Nov 12 - 12:04 AM
Little Hawk 07 Nov 12 - 12:05 AM
GUEST,999 07 Nov 12 - 12:05 AM
GUEST,999 07 Nov 12 - 12:07 AM
Ron Davies 07 Nov 12 - 12:10 AM
Henry Krinkle 07 Nov 12 - 12:13 AM
GUEST 07 Nov 12 - 12:15 AM
ollaimh 07 Nov 12 - 12:25 AM
michaelr 07 Nov 12 - 12:30 AM
Little Hawk 07 Nov 12 - 12:33 AM
Ron Davies 07 Nov 12 - 12:33 AM
JohnInKansas 07 Nov 12 - 12:37 AM
Don Firth 07 Nov 12 - 12:53 AM
GUEST,999 07 Nov 12 - 12:59 AM
ollaimh 07 Nov 12 - 01:06 AM
Henry Krinkle 07 Nov 12 - 01:14 AM
GUEST 07 Nov 12 - 01:24 AM
GUEST,999 07 Nov 12 - 01:27 AM
Sandra in Sydney 07 Nov 12 - 01:58 AM
michaelr 07 Nov 12 - 02:11 AM
Ron Davies 07 Nov 12 - 02:25 AM
Joe Offer 07 Nov 12 - 02:37 AM
VirginiaTam 07 Nov 12 - 02:39 AM
Richard Bridge 07 Nov 12 - 02:58 AM
Henry Krinkle 07 Nov 12 - 03:11 AM
skarpi 07 Nov 12 - 04:34 AM
Owen Woodson 07 Nov 12 - 05:47 AM
GUEST,Lighter 07 Nov 12 - 07:04 AM
sciencegeek 07 Nov 12 - 07:11 AM
John MacKenzie 07 Nov 12 - 07:12 AM
The Sandman 07 Nov 12 - 07:21 AM
GUEST,davemc 07 Nov 12 - 07:30 AM
Henry Krinkle 07 Nov 12 - 07:49 AM
Bat Goddess 07 Nov 12 - 07:52 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 07 Nov 12 - 07:54 AM
Wolfgang 07 Nov 12 - 08:02 AM
bobad 07 Nov 12 - 08:03 AM
EBarnacle 07 Nov 12 - 08:03 AM
bobad 07 Nov 12 - 08:07 AM
Richard Bridge 07 Nov 12 - 08:23 AM
Henry Krinkle 07 Nov 12 - 08:26 AM
GUEST,marks(on the road) 07 Nov 12 - 08:31 AM
GUEST,achmelvich 07 Nov 12 - 08:32 AM
GUEST,Ouch 07 Nov 12 - 08:44 AM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 07 Nov 12 - 09:08 AM
bbc 07 Nov 12 - 09:10 AM
Rapparee 07 Nov 12 - 09:18 AM
GUEST 07 Nov 12 - 09:32 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 07 Nov 12 - 09:55 AM
GUEST,TIA 07 Nov 12 - 09:56 AM
Stringsinger 07 Nov 12 - 10:02 AM
GUEST,sciencegeek 07 Nov 12 - 10:04 AM
Charley Noble 07 Nov 12 - 10:26 AM
Richard Bridge 07 Nov 12 - 10:45 AM
GUEST,Lighter 07 Nov 12 - 10:46 AM
GUEST,gillymor 07 Nov 12 - 10:50 AM
Henry Krinkle 07 Nov 12 - 11:06 AM
GUEST,gillymor 07 Nov 12 - 11:12 AM
GUEST,CS 07 Nov 12 - 11:41 AM
GUEST,TIA 07 Nov 12 - 12:07 PM
Richard Bridge 07 Nov 12 - 12:08 PM
Ron Davies 07 Nov 12 - 12:19 PM
Ed T 07 Nov 12 - 12:40 PM
Charley Noble 07 Nov 12 - 12:49 PM
Charley Noble 07 Nov 12 - 12:59 PM
TIA 07 Nov 12 - 01:02 PM
Bobert 07 Nov 12 - 01:05 PM
GUEST,CS 07 Nov 12 - 01:11 PM
Charley Noble 07 Nov 12 - 01:12 PM
Bill D 07 Nov 12 - 01:15 PM
McGrath of Harlow 07 Nov 12 - 01:22 PM
GUEST,Lighter 07 Nov 12 - 01:31 PM
Charley Noble 07 Nov 12 - 02:12 PM
McGrath of Harlow 07 Nov 12 - 02:16 PM
Richard Bridge 07 Nov 12 - 02:21 PM
akenaton 07 Nov 12 - 02:21 PM
akenaton 07 Nov 12 - 02:24 PM
Henry Krinkle 07 Nov 12 - 02:26 PM
GUEST,Lighter 07 Nov 12 - 02:33 PM
GUEST,sciencegeek 07 Nov 12 - 02:44 PM
TIA 07 Nov 12 - 02:46 PM
Henry Krinkle 07 Nov 12 - 02:52 PM
Rapparee 07 Nov 12 - 03:39 PM
Richard Bridge 07 Nov 12 - 04:10 PM
Don Firth 07 Nov 12 - 04:17 PM
Charley Noble 07 Nov 12 - 04:27 PM
Bill D 07 Nov 12 - 04:28 PM
Little Hawk 07 Nov 12 - 04:42 PM
akenaton 07 Nov 12 - 05:09 PM
Bill D 07 Nov 12 - 05:32 PM
GUEST,bflat 07 Nov 12 - 05:59 PM
akenaton 07 Nov 12 - 06:18 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 07 Nov 12 - 06:29 PM
michaelr 07 Nov 12 - 07:22 PM
Ron Davies 07 Nov 12 - 09:12 PM
Ron Davies 07 Nov 12 - 09:14 PM
michaelr 07 Nov 12 - 10:36 PM
Ron Davies 07 Nov 12 - 10:51 PM
michaelr 08 Nov 12 - 12:45 AM
LadyJean 08 Nov 12 - 01:01 AM
GUEST,Big Al Whittle 08 Nov 12 - 01:20 AM
GUEST,giovanni 08 Nov 12 - 02:49 AM
GUEST,Don Wise 08 Nov 12 - 03:40 AM
Henry Krinkle 08 Nov 12 - 04:54 AM
WalkaboutsVerse 08 Nov 12 - 07:15 AM
GUEST,TIA 08 Nov 12 - 07:35 AM
gnu 08 Nov 12 - 07:51 AM
GUEST,Lighter 08 Nov 12 - 08:13 AM
Bobert 08 Nov 12 - 08:24 AM
Ed T 08 Nov 12 - 09:49 AM
Charley Noble 08 Nov 12 - 10:00 AM
akenaton 08 Nov 12 - 11:45 AM
akenaton 08 Nov 12 - 12:00 PM
Greg F. 08 Nov 12 - 12:22 PM
Henry Krinkle 08 Nov 12 - 12:47 PM
Stringsinger 08 Nov 12 - 12:51 PM
GUEST,gillymor 08 Nov 12 - 01:11 PM
GUEST,sciencegeek 08 Nov 12 - 01:28 PM
Charley Noble 08 Nov 12 - 01:33 PM
Ron Davies 08 Nov 12 - 01:42 PM
GUEST,Lighter 08 Nov 12 - 01:44 PM
McGrath of Harlow 08 Nov 12 - 01:47 PM
Little Hawk 08 Nov 12 - 01:49 PM
GUEST,sciencegeek 08 Nov 12 - 02:03 PM
Little Hawk 08 Nov 12 - 02:11 PM
Henry Krinkle 08 Nov 12 - 02:16 PM
Ron Davies 08 Nov 12 - 02:22 PM
Little Hawk 08 Nov 12 - 02:31 PM
Ron Davies 08 Nov 12 - 02:41 PM
GUEST,sciencegeek 08 Nov 12 - 02:41 PM
Henry Krinkle 08 Nov 12 - 03:18 PM
GUEST,Lighter 08 Nov 12 - 03:23 PM
Henry Krinkle 08 Nov 12 - 03:30 PM
Charley Noble 08 Nov 12 - 03:37 PM
GUEST,Lighter 08 Nov 12 - 03:53 PM
Bobert 08 Nov 12 - 05:26 PM
Greg F. 08 Nov 12 - 05:42 PM
Little Hawk 08 Nov 12 - 05:54 PM
Little Hawk 08 Nov 12 - 06:14 PM
Bobert 08 Nov 12 - 06:24 PM
Little Hawk 08 Nov 12 - 06:25 PM
Henry Krinkle 08 Nov 12 - 06:38 PM
Bobert 08 Nov 12 - 06:49 PM
Little Hawk 08 Nov 12 - 06:55 PM
Don Firth 08 Nov 12 - 07:15 PM
Bobert 08 Nov 12 - 07:28 PM
GUEST,TIA 08 Nov 12 - 08:25 PM
Bobert 08 Nov 12 - 08:31 PM
GUEST,Lighter 08 Nov 12 - 08:55 PM
Bobert 08 Nov 12 - 09:11 PM
Charley Noble 08 Nov 12 - 09:18 PM
Bobert 08 Nov 12 - 09:24 PM
GUEST,Lighter 08 Nov 12 - 09:39 PM
michaelr 08 Nov 12 - 09:45 PM
Ron Davies 08 Nov 12 - 10:08 PM
Ron Davies 08 Nov 12 - 10:16 PM
Joe Offer 08 Nov 12 - 11:02 PM
michaelr 08 Nov 12 - 11:05 PM
LadyJean 09 Nov 12 - 01:09 AM
WalkaboutsVerse 09 Nov 12 - 06:51 AM
Allan Conn 09 Nov 12 - 07:12 AM
bobad 09 Nov 12 - 07:43 AM
Charley Noble 09 Nov 12 - 08:06 AM
GUEST,sciencegeek 09 Nov 12 - 08:23 AM
goatfell 09 Nov 12 - 09:55 AM
Amos 09 Nov 12 - 10:41 AM
Bill D 09 Nov 12 - 12:28 PM
TIA 09 Nov 12 - 12:40 PM
Greg F. 09 Nov 12 - 04:09 PM
Charley Noble 09 Nov 12 - 04:10 PM
GUEST,TIA 10 Nov 12 - 12:07 PM
Ron Davies 11 Nov 12 - 10:11 AM
Ron Davies 11 Nov 12 - 10:22 AM
sciencegeek 11 Nov 12 - 10:40 AM
Ron Davies 11 Nov 12 - 11:00 AM
sciencegeek 11 Nov 12 - 11:12 AM
Ron Davies 11 Nov 12 - 11:24 AM
sciencegeek 11 Nov 12 - 11:41 AM
Ron Davies 11 Nov 12 - 12:03 PM
sciencegeek 12 Nov 12 - 05:44 AM
sciencegeek 12 Nov 12 - 05:49 AM
akenaton 12 Nov 12 - 06:06 AM
sciencegeek 12 Nov 12 - 06:41 AM
sciencegeek 12 Nov 12 - 07:25 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 12 Nov 12 - 07:29 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 12 Nov 12 - 08:04 AM
GUEST,TIA 12 Nov 12 - 10:15 AM
Little Hawk 12 Nov 12 - 01:18 PM
GUEST,TIA 12 Nov 12 - 03:46 PM
akenaton 12 Nov 12 - 04:18 PM
akenaton 12 Nov 12 - 05:04 PM
GUEST,DDT 12 Nov 12 - 05:45 PM
Amos 12 Nov 12 - 05:49 PM
Don Firth 12 Nov 12 - 06:23 PM
akenaton 12 Nov 12 - 06:48 PM
akenaton 12 Nov 12 - 06:50 PM
Bobert 12 Nov 12 - 07:25 PM
frogprince 12 Nov 12 - 08:52 PM
Bobert 12 Nov 12 - 09:01 PM
GUEST,DDT 12 Nov 12 - 10:41 PM
sciencegeek 12 Nov 12 - 11:29 PM
GUEST,TIA 12 Nov 12 - 11:46 PM
Joe Offer 13 Nov 12 - 01:50 AM
sciencegeek 13 Nov 12 - 07:12 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 13 Nov 12 - 07:23 AM

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Subject: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Nov 12 - 11:31 PM

Get over it, righties...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Nov 12 - 11:36 PM

It's 4.30 am in UK right now.

For a Brit who doesn't understand the complexities of US voting,
can I now go to bed confident this is a definite indisputable conclusive victory ?


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: sciencegeek
Date: 06 Nov 12 - 11:37 PM

thank god! even my long time Republican mom is a happy camper... she figured out that the Republican Party has gone over to the dark side when she was living in Missouri.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 06 Nov 12 - 11:42 PM

You could have had a woman. You could have voted Green. Instead you went along with a broken system. You sheep. Baaaa!!
=(:-( P)


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 Nov 12 - 11:49 PM

Hot Dawgies!!!

Sheep and be damned! Bawl your eyes out, Shrinkle!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST,999
Date: 06 Nov 12 - 11:52 PM

Ladies and gentlemen, how did the House do?


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Ron Davies
Date: 06 Nov 12 - 11:54 PM

289 electoral votes for the President (does include OH). But supposedly even without OH, he'd have 271.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 06 Nov 12 - 11:57 PM

You're another mindless Amerikan, Mr. Fluff.
Wall Street won. The dice were loaded long ago. The cards were marked. The House wins. Every time.
=(:-( ))


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 12:01 AM

Carl Rove says Romney can still win.

The Romney campaign says it will not concede at this time.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Wesley S
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 12:04 AM

Henry - do you ever get tired of being a whiner?


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 12:05 AM

Yeah, the house wins, of course. Thank goodness it's finally over! This means Chongo can get back to his real work pursuing petty criminals instead of pursuing the dangerous chimera of the US presidency. By tomorrow I'm sure he will feel a palpable sense of relief. The world (except the Likud Party in Israel) will be relieved that Romney didn't win.

And...things should get a bit friendlier around here too, hopefully. That would be a good thing to see.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST,999
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 12:05 AM

HOW did the HOUSE do????


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST,999
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 12:07 AM

Next time, speed it up, willya? I don't need your help to look like an idiot, many thanks.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Ron Davies
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 12:10 AM

House will be unclear for quite a while. Looks as if GOP keeps it.

Have to say WETA for one is just totally unfair in its coverage. Not only does Romney lose, but his supporters on screen are fatter than the Obama crowd.    Pobre cito.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 12:13 AM

Amerika loses again. You folkie anti-establishment types sure are conservative.
Baaa!Baaa!
=(:-( P)


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 12:15 AM

Kentucky lost its Democratic representative Ben Chandler to Republican Andy Barr. Democrat Tammy Duckworth from Illinois beat Republican Joe Walsh, so she'll be going to the House. Other races for House seats ...?


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: ollaimh
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 12:25 AM

all the vote spression dirty tricks of the republicasns couldn't win it for them. they usd the control of florida state government and the supreme court to appoint w bush but not this time.

too bad about last time, no w bush no iraq war and no three trillion dollars down the drain to the military corporations.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: michaelr
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 12:30 AM

Senate = Dems, House = Repubs, Prez = Obama.

$2 billion or more spent. Nothing's changed.

Who's happy?


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 12:33 AM

Those who wanted Obama to win are happy. (and that means most of the world!) But, yeah, nothing's really changed, except that Mitt Romney has probably had his last kick at the presidential can.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Ron Davies
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 12:33 AM

Hey, Fox is real entertaining.    What they now say--and it must be true, since it's on Fox--is that Romney only wrote one speech--an acceptance speech.

So he has to write another speech.

Ain't that cute.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 12:37 AM

Florida, Virginia, and Nevada are still uncounted, but the forecast gives it to Obama

Latest thing posted shows Senate with 50 seats Dem, 44 Rep, but still 6 seats undecided.

The House is showing 200 Rep to 146 Dem, with about 75 seats remaining; but the Republicans only need about 10 of those to have half of 'em.

The MSNBC.com home site has a tracker/predictor up, but they're redirecting to an election news page and I haven't been able to snatch a decently useful url to make a link. They're probably as reliable as any of the places tracking results, but nobody can make any guarantees until all the hanging chads are counted amd of course until the challenges are resolved.

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Don Firth
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 12:53 AM

Romney officially codes.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST,999
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 12:59 AM

IMO, once again the American people have done their best to decide between an idiot and a fool. The real election happened at a more grass roots level, and therein should they find how to govern themselves. It is disgusting that once again money has decided how American democracy is run. Logical votes would have done what Henry Krinkle did: GREEN.

Four more years of same-o same-o.

Nothing is about to change: not the news, not the rhetoric, not the value of people's feelings. It is a sadness too sad to be true (thank you Jesse).

Unless you get off your asses and develop a good third party, one that's stronger than the religious 'right' or the tea party--I refuse to capitalize that name--you will lose your country.

Odds makers have already called Romney in 2016. For those who want control, four years don't mean shit. Money isn't older than people, but it's rich enough to convince us it is.

Congratulations to America, and I guess it sucks to be the rest of us. Sour grapes? I suppose. But you will feel it hit home if you do nothing but revel in a Pyrrhic victory.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: ollaimh
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 01:06 AM

karl rove delayed admitting they lost because he was sure he had rigged those voting machines. he's still scratching his head.

somebody must have cancelled his rigging with their own. only possible explaination.

ido not think obama is either an idiot or fool. romney is gordon gecko. a corupt leveraged buy out expert.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 01:14 AM

Thank you, Bruce. Thank you very much.
=(:-( D)


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 01:24 AM

Perhaps now with the second term in the bag, Obama will have the balls to tell the big drug and health care insurance companies to "go forth and multiply" and bring decent universal health care to the American people. What a legacy that would be!


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST,999
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 01:27 AM

Hey, buddy, when you're right, you're right. :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 01:58 AM

When I got home this afternoon about an hour ago, I heard a news report on the election result, but didn't hear who won. I was asking the radio WHO? WHO?? I've been listening to news radio ever since, savouring the result.

Now I'm listening to President Obama's speech. Congratulations to him & to all the 'Catters & others who helped in his campaign. Over the past few weeks reporters based in the US have kept us up to date on the campaign.

Last night we heard from volunteers who traveled to Ohio to help get voters out. One was an Australian who has been working in New York for about 6 years & even tho he can't vote, has been helping on the campaign. He said there many other non-citizens helping, some had flown in from other countries.

sandra



Australian Live Blog on US election


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: michaelr
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 02:11 AM

999 - Romney 2016? Never again will that buffoon seek public office.

Obama does not have the balls to force insurance companies out of health care. I'm not sure anyone could.

Once again, we're stuck with the lesser evil, and are deprived of the common good.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Ron Davies
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 02:25 AM

Well Michael, why don't you run?   I'm sure your ideas are far better than anybody else's and the public should not be deprived of your talent--which I trust does extend beyond sour cynicism, though admittedly we have not seen anything else so far from you.

At least you seem to have some notion of grammar and are capable of putting a few sentences together.   Congratulations to you. That's a start.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 02:37 AM

Well, I'm happy. Some might wish for a liberal ideologue, but I think the Tea Party has shown us that we've had enough of ideologues. Barack Obama is a good man, an intelligent man, a man who has done an excellent job in his first four years as President. I can't understand why his opponents hate him so much. I'm hoping that we can get past all the partisan crap in the next four years, and get to the business of running the country.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 02:39 AM

Much as I am terrified by the lately developing republican party and disenchanted with the democrat party, a vote for any other party would have been wasted.

But I am heartened by Americans determination to exercise the right vote against many obstructions, technical and personal.   

I would love to see the Green party rise to a legitimately strong enough party to govern from the white house, but better I would more wish to see a real working cooperation between all parties for the good of all citizens and the good of the wider world.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 02:58 AM

One of the most shocking things is the irrefutable proof of the voting machines altering people's votes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 03:11 AM

I voted Green. And I've been attacked every step of the way. By Mudcatters.
=(:-( 0)


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: skarpi
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 04:34 AM

tú gratjúleisjun....Obama wins :))......not the man who wanted to open a window in 30 thousand feet on an air plane ...thank god for that ...

no tea party ´s .....

hope the Demo´s will still win after 4 years ...


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 05:47 AM

I watched it on tv until 3am GMT before I finally went to bed. At that time Obama was starting to pull ahead, but the result was still all to play for. I woke just before 6am, turned the radio on and got the voice of Mitt Romney making a speech. 'Oh God', thinks I. 'He's won. Then I heard him say something like "It would have been nice to have been president", let out a great YEEEEEAAAAAAHHHHH!!!!! and went back to sleep.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 07:04 AM

I heard of *one* machine that was reported as altering a vote. It was repaired.

But in a related development, a Fox News guest charges that Obama won Ohio through voter fraud.

Donald Trump has called the election a "sham and a travesty" and Obama's win was a "disgusting injustice." He says that America is no longer a democracy and "The world is laughing at us." He calls for a "march on Washington."

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/trump-election-meltdown-twitter-obama-march-washington-054449245--election.html


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: sciencegeek
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 07:11 AM

You could have had a woman. You could have voted Green. Instead you went along with a broken system. You sheep. Baaaa!!
=(:-( P)

and that's the exact thinking that put G W in office the first time around...

how about thinking globally and acting locally???? how about putting sane candidates on the local ballots instead of the same old political hacks.   as long as the old faces get elected, because there is no friggin' alternative, then we will have political parties that feel "entitled", rather than committed to serving the country & ALL of its citizens.

and while we're at it... how about working for an educational system that really teaches kids how to think for themselves rather than spitting back canned answers????


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 07:12 AM

Poor Henry, all that, AND he plays banjo. Deepest sympathies Krankie


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 07:21 AM

a good result


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST,davemc
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 07:30 AM

Zzzzzzzzz. Just wish they'd stop boring us to death with the US election nonsense on the UK tv. They've been fawning over Obama for months.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 07:49 AM

I didn't vote for Bush. I voted Libertarian those times. And I play more guitar than banjo. Banjo gives me a little variety.
=(:-( D)


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 07:52 AM

Just listening to NPR's commentary that the Republicans "separation from reality" -- contributed by the right-wing media -- is what lost them the election(s).

My feeling is just so much RELIEF.

Maybe now there IS hope that something can be accomplished in digging out from the mess Obama inherited. The most important thing here is the Republicans failed in their 4-year effort to make him a one-term president. I certainly hope -- for the good of the country -- that they will start working WITH the President and their colleagues across the aisle for a change.

Linn


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 07:54 AM

""I voted Green. And I've been attacked every step of the way. By Mudcatters.
=(:-( 0)
""

You enter this forum simply to post a constant stream of whinges, insults and egregious nonsense, and then expect to be welcomed with open arms?

The only thing anybody can say about you voting green is that, in the present political climate, that is a stupid waste of a vote.

What else did you expect, and DO please try to make your answer polite and reasonably sensible. Try a new experience!

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Wolfgang
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 08:02 AM

In Germany, the support among white Germans for Obama was even higher than the support for him among black USAmericans. From a Middle European perspective, the right wing of the Republicans (tea party, etc.) looks like a lunatic fringe.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: bobad
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 08:03 AM

Please don't feed the trolls.....sigh.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: EBarnacle
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 08:03 AM

I find it interesting that they are talking about voting machines and corruption in Ohio when all of the malfunctions that have been reported consist of the machines changing the vote from Obama to Romney.
Fortunately, people distrust the machines and look at what is being entered. Several of these machines were spotted and taken out of service.
The company that owns the machines is run by a Romney crony. Check it out.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: bobad
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 08:07 AM

Not directed to you Wolfgang. The same is true in Canada - most Canadians can't understand how so many Americans actually buy into that extremist crap.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 08:23 AM

I agree that it is worrying that what Wolfgang so rightly calls the lunatic fringe will probably carry on stonewalling in the lower house and filibusting in the upper house to make sure that NOTHING, not even what they have previously asked for, gets done. "The Cliff" as it has been dubbed, will put the USA back in recession if nothing can (for such reasons) be done to change it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 08:26 AM

No matter how Prez al-Obama sells you out, you won't have any right to complain. Just suck it up, sweetcheeks.
He's your man.
=(:-( P)


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST,marks(on the road)
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 08:31 AM

Dems hold presidency

Repubs hold house

Dems hold senate

Looks like the electorate has arranged a stalemate

Don't expect much over the next two years till the midterms in
2014

Mark


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 08:32 AM

yes, brits don't get that extremist stuff either -you yanks seem such nice folks- and are horrified by the power of religious fanatics over there. our own government has the extremism and some nutters even reject the dangers of climate change but you would have to look very hard to find anyone wanting to teach creationism in schools. will these tea party types tone it down a bit now? what will the lunatics do to try and get back control of the asylum?


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST,Ouch
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 08:44 AM

Financial Times of London

Obama Victory



Wall Street set to dip as 'fiscal cliff' and eurozone worries take hold.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 09:08 AM

Hooray !!!!

Soooo relieved and reassured to know we can get through 2012 Mayan Apocalypse Prediction panic
without added anxiety of extreme right wing religious USA 'End of days' Rapture nutters

grabbing control of the Doomsday Nuke Launch triggers...


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: bbc
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 09:10 AM

I agree with Joe Offer.

Best to all,

bbc


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Rapparee
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 09:18 AM

No matter who won I figgered we'd have a new boss, same as the old boss.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 09:32 AM

I didn't vote for Bush. I voted Libertarian those times. And I play more guitar than banjo. Banjo gives me a little variety.
=(:-( D)

so you wasted another opportunity?

I have voted for the third party in a presidential election... but since I knew that my vote wouldn't effect the "great actor" from getting the best role in his life, I used it to support taxpayer $ going to that third party.

we need to support sanity and moderation in the country... hate mongers should be relegated to trash heap of history... if we want to be respected and admired as a nation, we should behave as respectable human beings to others - both internally and externally.

the "Ugly American" needs to become extinct.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 09:55 AM

""Please don't feed the trolls.....sigh.""

There are trolls and trolls Bobad. Our Henry often shows a greater intelligence than fits in with his apparent lack of social skills and absence of good manners.

If he will try serious discussion and a degree of respect, his opinions would probably be worthy of attention.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 09:56 AM

S-U-P-R-E-M-E C-O-U-R-T


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Stringsinger
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 10:02 AM

"For a Brit who doesn't understand the complexities of US voting,
can I now go to bed confident this is a definite indisputable conclusive victory ?"

Yes, this was a conclusive victory for democracy, not just for Dems and Obama.
The American voter overroad the cheating and conniving of the GOP sometimes
standing in line for 6 hours to honor their franchise.

This was a victory for the people of the United States.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 10:04 AM

Amen!!!

but we do need to get rid of some extremists in Congress first... otherwise it will be bloody...

this country could use fewer politicians and more statesmen... able to put aside their own personal gain and look to do their best for the nation as a whole.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Charley Noble
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 10:26 AM

"Carl Rove says Romney can still win."

I think I'll frame that statement. One of the late night moments of comic relief was when FOX News announced that Obama had won in Ohio and Karl Rove, who is employed as a consultant at FOX News while heading up a massive PAC for funding millions to Republican candidates all over the country, rejected the claim from FOX's own statisticians.

Ohio results this morning seem to confirm a decisive win for Obama in Ohio. The results in Florida are still considered too close to call but Obama has a moderately strong lead and its Democratic strongholds that have not been completely counted.

There were some great wins by Democrats in the US Senate races, beginning with Elizabeth Warren in Massachusetts.

We did fine in Maine with the Democrats regaining control over both the Senate and the House, and with voters approving Marriage Equality by a substantial majority.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 10:45 AM

I do hope that if the fiscal cliff does produce a major problem, voters will see the reason - Repuglican stonewalling and filibusting.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 10:46 AM

Speaking of Fox News (and how can you not?), last night one of their top analysts explained that Romney's problem was that "he's a Northeast liberal who couldn't rally conservatives."

The remedy for the GOP? Next time, they'll have to...










"Move farther to the right."


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 10:50 AM

Yesterday was a great day for the USA (see TIA's spelling lesson above). Real change in this country happens very slowly due to a very diverse electorate and to expect any one person to be able to effect that change in a few years is unrealistic. I'm Green and the only really substantial debate I saw during the election cycle was the 3rd party debate on C-Span where they addressed the important issues that Romney and the Prez were avoiding *BUT* siphoning off votes to the Greens and facilitating the election of Romney would have been a disaster for this country, the environment and it's future generations (think Supreme Court). We've got to keep fightin for change and the GOP is in a position where they have to recognize the changing electorate or die. Voter supression and massive amounts of Super Pac money-generated negative ads turned out to be a pretty feeble strategy, at least on the national level.

WHOOPEE!

(now back to nursing this hangover)


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 11:06 AM

President Henry Krinkle has a nice sound to it. Don't you agree?
And I'm developing my platform. Abolish the Death Penalty. High tariffs on Chinese goods. Massive overhaul of education. Music lessons mandatory in schools. 40 acres and a mule for anybody who wants it. No more gun control of any kind. Pack a piece if you like. Legalize dueling.
I'm just getting started.
Send your campaign donations to:
Henry Krinkle for President
154 Hopper Avenue
Fair Lawn, NJ
610452

=(:-( D)


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 11:12 AM

The check's in the mail.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 11:41 AM

..and the rest of the world goes "phew!"

I'm not a big fan of Obama, he's good with saying the right words, less good with taking right action. However, he's also not a dumb gun nut with his finger poised itchily over the "Boomb!" button. How I prey that Obama is able to keep the US (and by default the UK too) out of Iran.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 12:07 PM

Bill O'Reilly on FOX News last night revealed the GOP's big problem:

"Obama wins because it's not a traditional America anymore. The white establishment is the minority. People want things."

Wow. Where to begin with the possible (probable?) subtexts in that statement.

-Traditional Americans would not vote for Obama
-If you are not white, you are not "traditional America"
-These non-white people are freeloaders

Oh, wait. I'm playing the race card. Shit. Sorry.






Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha

Suck it Bill!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 12:08 PM

"prey"! Chuckle!


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Ron Davies
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 12:19 PM

Richard--

"irrefutable proof".   Link, please.

And, yet again, the problem with dwelling on voting corruption is that it encourages people not to vote.

That's why the focus should always be on raising turnout.    No "head in sand " attitude about voting machine problems--obviously that should be rooted out.   

But it is remarkable that for some reason, you seem to always leave out the idea of the importance of voting--or at least it is a very minor consideration to you.   One might even possibly think you are cynical about voting--which of course would be totally unfair to you, I'm sure.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Ed T
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 12:40 PM

For those "USA election junkies, don't fear. The 2016 election campaign (cam-pain)starts today.

For those (very few) who live outside USA election sphere, GOP meaning:

Get Out and Push


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Charley Noble
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 12:49 PM

Florida Results are in except for provisional ballots with 100% of precincts reporting:

Obama: 49.86%         4,141,300
Romney: 49.29%        4,093,807
Others:    0.73%            60,311

So I think we can chalk this state up to Obama as well.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Charley Noble
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 12:59 PM

Not only has Obama taken a commanding lead in the Electoral College vote, he has also a credible lead in the popular vote:


Obama        60,059,313        50.3%
Romney        57,377,759        48.1%

There was some doubt about that last night but rather than rehash those thoughts, look at the numbers.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: TIA
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 01:02 PM

One video (uploaded to a sketchy site) does not come close to proving massive electronic vote tampering, but here is cellphone video from a voter in PA showing a clear problem with a machine.

Just one accident?

Part of a pattern?

Way too early to tell, but this certainly needs to be investigated.

http://perezhilton.com/2012-11-06-ballot-tampering-anti-obama-pennsylvania-robot-apocalypse-mitt-romney

see for yourself


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 01:05 PM

Yes, TIA...

The most important aspect of this election is the Supreme Court...

I mean, no matter who won, the next year is going to be a slobber-knocker in terms of taxes, the budget and the House right wing radicals... Romney would have had to deal with those, too, and probably wouldn't have faired any better than what we're going to see over the next couple three months...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 01:11 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 12:08 PM

"prey"! Chuckle!


Quite! What kind of predatory creature would you imagine a hard right-wing USA to be? I reckon it'd be a cross between a Boa Constrictor, a T Rex and a Jackal.
The UK on the other hand is like a poisonous Tree Frog crossed with a faithful arse sniffing Blood Hound.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Charley Noble
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 01:12 PM

Here's a graphic description of the Karl Rove reaction to his employer FOX News calling Ohio for Obama:

Forget Barack Obama and Mitt Romney. The most exciting matchup of the night was between Karl Rove and his employer, Fox News.

A little after 11 p.m., Fox News and every other news outlet called the presidential race for Obama. Rove, the mastermind of George W. Bush's campaign and now a political commentator on Fox, didn't buy it.

Why? According to Rove, who appeared to be going through extreme denial that Mitt Romney had lost, there were too many outstanding votes in Ohio to give the state to Obama, tipping the race in his favor.

No one else at Fox took his side. And to prove him wrong, Megyn Kelly walked down the hall in a live action shot to the "decision desk" that called the race and interviewed the men in charge.

Their response was essentially that while some counties haven't reported all the Romney votes yet, there are too many votes unreported in Democratic territory like Cleveland that it wouldn't matter.

"There just aren't enough Republican votes left for Mitt Romney to get there," said decision maker Chris Stirewalt.


I bet Karl has a real hangover this morning.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 01:15 PM

ummm...999 did you really mean this?
"Logical votes would have done what Henry Krinkle did: GREEN."

That would be logical only IF it were a fully developed party as part of a multiple party system such as Israel. *I* see the virtues ... and the hazards.. of such a system, but who do you see on either side trying to engineer such a drastic change? It would require at least one amendment to the Constitution and THAT needs approval of states who would rather compete against only ONE other party.
   The last time anything significant was done by a 3rd party was when " in 2000, Green Party candidate Ralph Nader catapulted George W. Bush into the Oval Office by siphoning off 97,488 Florida votes that otherwise would have gone to Al Gore."...and before that, Ross Perot probably got Clinton elected.


If logic were universal, a LOT of stuff would be different, but we have to play the hand we're dealt. *I* would like to start with a simple change of eliminating the electoral college and revamping the primary system, so that Iowa, N. Hampshire don't get all the early attention and we don't have 5-6 states determining the entire election at the end.

I DID vote logically.... by voting for someone I basically believe will try to do a decent job and NOT voting for someone whose influence would have sent us into a hateful theocracy....as someone said S*U*P*R*E*M*E C*O*U*R*T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 01:22 PM

A very popular result round the world.

As this page shows, in pretty well every country most people hoped Obama would win. And now that includes the USA.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 01:31 PM

The resentful venom coming from some Republicans beats anything I've ever seen the day after an election.

Example. Former campaign operative Mary Matalin, now a CNN regular, calls Obama "mendacious," "malicious," "divisive," "derisive," and "destructive," a master of "platitudes and personal destruction," whose only electoral mandate appears to be "forced contraception."

The charges of voter fraud and Donald Trump's call for revolution have already been mentioned.

A muted Mitch McConnell says that the voters have given Obama another term to solve all the problems he's already had four years to solve.

The guy on Fox News claimed that Obama has "trampled on" America's "religious freedoms" and is trying to dictate to Americans "how far they can believe."

Some Republicans, including Romney himself, have been appropriately constructive.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Charley Noble
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 02:12 PM

"Donald Trump's call for revolution"

Trump deserves his own special room in an asylum for the politically inane.

Trump calling for a revolution is like Marie Antoinette asking for another slice of cake before her execution.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 02:16 PM

It strikes me it would be a much better system if all the voting took place before any of the counting was done, and all the counting was completed before the results were announced - and only at that stage could there be any question of anyone conceding defeat or claiming victory.

Of course it would take a bit longer, but that's why your system has this long delay before there's a handover to a new administration. What's the hurry?


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 02:21 PM

The simplest google will show user statements about machines changing votes. Try to keep up.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 02:21 PM

I think you have ended up with an even more divided nation.

Divided chiefly along the lines of race.....95% of Afro Americans supported President Obama (coincidence?)

Also diveded on political and social lines.
there has to be plenty of compromise.....on both sides,
if anything is to be achieved, tho' i feel the biggest problem will turn out to be racial tensions.

Mr Obama is beginning to be perceived as a "black" for a "brown" nation.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 02:24 PM

Sorry, that should read a "black" president for a "brown" nation.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 02:26 PM

You should have voted Green. Instead you voted for Wall Street.
Baaaaaaaa!!!!! Baaaaaa!!!
=(:-( 0)


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 02:33 PM

Back in the '60s, when election-night polling and predicting methods became startlingly reliable, there was some discussion of passing a law to forbid statistical election-night predictions before all the polls had closed.

That would allow people to vote without being unduly influenced by either the bandwagon effect or the sense that their vote might not count anyway.

Since the law would mean no predictions till after midnight on the East Coast - resulting in little viewer interest (or advertising revenue) on election night - it went nowhere.

There may also have been a study showing that the predictions had no real effect on turnout anyway: I'm not sure.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 02:44 PM

You should have voted Green. Instead you voted for Wall Street.
Baaaaaaaa!!!!! Baaaaaa!!!
=(:-( 0)

the broken record... LPs for the younger folk....

hasn't he listened & figured out that in today's elections, a vote for GREEN is a defacto vote for Wall Street?

I think I found a nominee for the political Darwin Award.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: TIA
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 02:46 PM

"95% of Afro Americans supported President Obama (coincidence?)"

Nope. Not coincidence at all. The GOP ran against Obama using "dog whistle" phrases, and in the end even gave up on dog whistles, and was openly racist. Take a look at the Bill O'Reilly quote I posted above. That's the modern GOP.

Why in the world would anyone expect American blacks to vote for the person whose party is actively campaigning against them?!?


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 02:52 PM

Enjoy Prez al-Obama. And the I told you so's.
=(:-( P)


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Rapparee
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 03:39 PM

What thrills me is that Tammy Duckworth defeated Joe Walsh by better than 16,000 votes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 04:10 PM

Yes, that is very nice.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Don Firth
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 04:17 PM

One must remember that poor Henry Krinkle is like a congenital wallflower at a gala event. He desperately craves attention, but since, intellectually and personality-wise he is the equivalent of a sack of cement, he strives to gain attention by the only way he knows.

He leaps up on the banquet table and pisses in the punch bowl.

There you are, Dinkle! There's some attention. Cherish it.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Charley Noble
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 04:27 PM

Oh, what joy!

I just noticed that Rep. Alan West of Florida was blown away as well.

Bye, bye!

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 04:28 PM

"95% of Afro Americans supported President Obama (coincidence?)"

But they would never have voted for Allen West, who LOOKS black.

...and they didn't even put West back in congress.

They viewed, quite sensibly, that a Romney agenda would likely have directly negatively affected minority rights.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 04:42 PM

Well, why would they vote for Romney, Bill? There's nothing about his party that would encourage them to. On the other hand, Obama hasn't done much (if anything) for them either...he's just better than Romney, that's all.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 05:09 PM

Tia and Bill, you are being unrealistic.
if the American electorate are as dumb as you seem to believe, how do you think them capable of objective political thinking?
You certainly consider Tea Party supporters to be politically ignorant as well as racist and homophobic.

Mr Obama is not a symbol of unity


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 05:32 PM

*I* never said anything about the electorate being dumb. Some may well be, but those who are genuinely dumb (read: incompetent to even understand basic issues) do not figure in MY opinion.

as to: "You certainly consider Tea Party supporters to be politically ignorant as well as racist and homophobic."

How do you know what I think about the tea party? Some are all of those sad things, but mostly they are just unrealistically and/or emotionally committed to shallow slogans and narrow special interest issues like guns & abortion.

"On the other hand, Obama hasn't done much (if anything) for them either.

Nonsense! If I wasn't too busy, I'd type out 3 paragraphs of explanation. In the meantime, Google will inform you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST,bflat
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 05:59 PM

I couldn't be happier. Character matters and President Obama will always be a man of character. We do know who he is and what he says he doesn't run from. Don't forget the 47% comments of Romney. The most significant win will be the opportunity to change "Citizens United" when the direction of the Supreme Court improves. We must have campaign finance reform and a new way of funding. This is a democracy still isn't it?

Ellen


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 06:18 PM

"abortion"...."a narrow special interest issue"?
I think our views on abortion are definitive as to the state of our society.

Perhaps you're correct about the American electorate.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 06:29 PM

I personally prefer Democratic policies, but am shocked by how few African Americans prefer a Republican, these days - in one state, 93% voted for Obama..? My poem on "Americans" - http://www.myspace.com/walkaboutsverse/blog/455408778


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: michaelr
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 07:22 PM

Ron Davies: A cynic is just a realist who hasn't been proven right yet.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Ron Davies
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 09:12 PM

"irrefutable proof" of tampering




Sorry, as usual with the wisdom of our resident querulous old biddies-- (of course I'm not talking about Richard and Michael--perish the thought)--- that's drivel.

I happen to have personal evidence.   When I voted, it did not seem to register what I had entered on one candidate.

But:

1)    If you had read the instructions, you could erase your vote and re-enter it. I did.

2)    The category was School Board, not President.   There is no way they would care who I voted for on the School Board--and there was no party assigned to the candidate. I had no problem voting for the President.

Yes, machines have glitches.

No, sorry, it does not necessarily mean the Evil GOP is sabotaging the electoral process--except in the giant brains of the conspiracy theory addicts Mudcat is graced with.

But far be it from me to try to shake them of their comfortable--if somewhat sloppy--mindset.

Maybe, as good folkies, they should listen to "For What It's Worth"--and perhaps learn something.

Maybe the day after hell freezes over.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Ron Davies
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 09:14 PM

"proven right yet".    Like a broken clock, you mean?


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: michaelr
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 10:36 PM

Just what is your problem with me, Ron?


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Ron Davies
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 10:51 PM

Dear Michael--


You do seem a bit slow.   I've told you more than once.

You're welcome to be as paranoid as you want.

But when all you do is whine about how the election will be stolen, it gets old. And more importantly, it discourages others from voting--since the election will be stolen anyway.

Whereas the best thing to do is to try to stimulate turnout.

In this election, for instance, your attitude is exactly what Romney wanted--and not what any sensible person would want. Fortunately your half-empty view was roundly ignored.

Hope I'm not too subtle.

Have a pleasant evening.

Ron


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: michaelr
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 12:45 AM

But when all you do is whine about how the election will be stolen, it gets old.

It's not all I do. In fact, I haven't done much of that at all. Please quote a recent post of mine where I did that.



I think you're confusing me with someone else, sir.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: LadyJean
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 01:01 AM

The election is over.
The results have been shown.
The will of the people is finally shown.
So, let bygones be bygones.
Let troubled times pass.
Now I'll hug your elephant,
And you kiss my.............




                                  Donkey!


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 01:20 AM

Does anyone else remember Martin Gibson saying, if the dems had won, this place would have lit up like a drunk on New Years Eve?


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST,giovanni
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 02:49 AM

Romney lost because he's even dafter than Reagan and G W Bush.

Obama won because they can't find anyone less daft.

So we continue to live with Wall St creating and manipulating crisis in the eurozone so the pathetically weak dollar can maintain some sort of parity.

Groan.

g


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST,Don Wise
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 03:40 AM

Unfortunately, it appears that the Republicans consider behaving like spiteful, sulky, spoilt brats to be an acceptable substutute for responsible, adult opposition.......


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 04:54 AM

They can't help it. It's how they were brought up.
=(:-( ))


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 07:15 AM

Further to my above post, unless the U.S.A. is to be run by a council of Native Americans, ideally ALL citizens would put policy before ethic background...but did that happen..?


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 07:35 AM

"if the American electorate are as dumb as you seem to believe.."

Ake- you really need to read more carefully. This is not at all what I posted.

I was actually saying the (Black) electorate was choosing wisely.

Don't know what the hell you got from it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: gnu
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 07:51 AM

CBC Radio, live, just now... Lawrence Wilkerson said he voted for Obama. HAD to vote for him. (Paraphrasing) Romney was made into a wishy-washy, flip-flopper with no spine and no leadership by the Tea Party and others.


Holy Crap!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 08:13 AM

According to CNN, various Tea Party "officials" are outraged at the election results and blame a sell-out "country-club Republican elite" for picking a "liberal" candidate without "conservative principles."

That kept millions of "real" conservatives from turning out to vote for Romney(I paraphrase).

In other words, the TP was "stabbed in the back." The Tea Party is now (as they put it) "the last best hope for the preservation of American principles."


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 08:24 AM

Right, Lighter...

Maybe the Repubs will run the Grand Wizard of the KKK next time???

B;~)


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Ed T
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 09:49 AM

""ideally ALL citizens would put policy before ethic background""

Possibly so in an ideal world (which does not exist), but if one feels a kinship and trust with the policies of a candidate because of it, I suspect that is a major consideration to many voters in most countries.

Did this perspective come up as a negative issue when many of the USA Irish supported Kennedy and Regan? I suspect not.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Charley Noble
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 10:00 AM

So what the Republicans need to do next time is nominate a "real conservative"? Well, bring it on, and watch your margin of defeat increase to the depths of the abyss!

I note that most Tea Party endorsed US Senate candidates were actually defeated in their races. The outcome in the House races is less clear cut but I'm still hoping that the evident defeat of Rep. Allen West of Florida will survive its recount.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 11:45 AM

Tia, I wasn't referring to you in particular, I am sure YOU never said anything like it, but the left in general appear to consider people of faith, conservatives, the underclass, the unwashed and uneducated prolotariat etc, to be incapable of any sort of rational thought................unless they happen to be part of the media brainwashed pseudo liberal brigade.
BTW, I do not concur with this view.

I think perhaps I have been a little unkind to you in the past...which I regret.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 12:00 PM

As a lifelong socialist, i must say that modern "liberalism" will never make America "great"

A large number of its inhabitants have not yet developed real cynicism, they can make the US FREE and socially healthy, but never equal.    "Equality" means the society of the slowest and weakest.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Greg F.
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 12:22 PM

Good old North Carolina! Home of the race-baiting, ignorant poor white Tarheel trash that kept Jesse Helms as a carbuncle on the body politic for all those decades.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 12:47 PM

You all should have voted Green.
I did.
=(:-( ))


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Stringsinger
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 12:51 PM

Obama didn't win. Romney lost. The people who stood in line for six hours were the real winners. They knew that Romney would bring this country down and that the white boy establishment (yes racist) was trying to buy this election.

This was a referendum on racism in America.

The people and democracy won out over the oligarchs and that's something to be joyful about.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 01:11 PM

What was your rationale in voting Green, Henry? Turn in your ballot, reduce Obama's share of the vote in a close contest, elect Romney president and thereby save the planet? Just curious.

I love that poem, Lady Jean.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 01:28 PM

You all should have voted Green.
I did.
=(:-( ))

suffering from some web induced form of Tourette's Syndrome as you must obviously be, I do hope you find treatment for this obnoxioous affliction.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Charley Noble
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 01:33 PM

And meanwhile Florida's 29 electoral votes are still blowing in the wind. Obama doesn't need them to win the Presidency but he's rolled up more than 50,000 votes than Romney by now and Florida officials still won't render a decision. What a disgrace their election system is! Voters waited for hours in line to cast their ballots, days to vote in advance were cut back, and prospective voters were dumped from the voter rolls. Florida should get the remedial attention it deserves.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Ron Davies
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 01:42 PM

NC--yes, the same one which went for Obama in 2008.    Ingrained attitudes can be overcome--and NC is changing demographically.

And it is not at all clear this election was all about racism pure and simple--even though that is the dearly held and comfortably simple view of so many Mudcatters who don't seem to want to do any research--or think.

Obviously for some race played a role, but the GOP put up the ultimate fat cat and expected that ordinary workers would believe he would represent their interests. To put it mildly, that played a role too.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 01:44 PM

Ever notice how Krinkle always signs with a picture of Homer Simpson?


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 01:47 PM

"ethic background"? Would that be the same kind of thing as "moral backbone"?


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 01:49 PM

I agree, Stringsinger, that Obama didn't win the election...Romney lost it. Romney lost by thinking that a single declining demographic (conservative old White men) would be enough to get him elected. It isn't enough anymore. It was once, but the country is changing.

If I were an American and could have voted, I could not have voted for Obama with any real enthusiasm, having been very disappointed in him over the last 4 years, despite the high hopes I had for him in 2008...but I WOULD have voted for Obama for one simple reason: to prevent Romney from winning!

The Republican Party has gone so far to the Right that it would appear like a lunatic fringe movement anywhere in the world except in the USA. It's gone right out of touch with reality. If the Republicans want to remain competitive, their only hope is to return to the political center, as they were when they were led by Dwight D. Eisenhower.

The Tea Party folks don't get it. They think the party has to go farther to the Right. That's funny! ;-) If they get their wish, they will simply destroy any chance the Republicans have of ever getting elected again.

As for Obama, he's actually gone far enough to the Right that he basically occupies the same general political ground as Canada's most Rightwing party, the Conservatives. Our other parties are considerably to the Left of Barack Obama. He is a center-right politician by world standards.

And perhaps that is partly why the Republicans have moved SO far to the lunatic Right since the days of Bill Clinton. The Democrats, by moving closer and closer to traditional Republican ground, have left the Republicans almost no place to go except to teeter wildly on the edge of falling completely off the rightwing wall and into the abyss. ;-D

This can be done in a country where so many people equate "socialism" with Communism...and think of "liberal" as a pejorative word.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 02:03 PM

if the Republicans adopted a more moderate stance and had not spent the past 4 years working against the interests of the American people because they agenda was to make Obama a one term president, then it would have been far less critical to ensure that Romney lost the election. Self preservation on the part of the middle class is a valid reson to vote Democratic.

I have little or no use for organized religion or political parties... and none what so ever for organized crime :) it's all about power or the abuse of power with them for the most part.

but I do differ about the idea of Obama not winning the election...
those added votes he got didn't magically appear... a lot of ground work was spent getting those people registered and motivated to vote.

The Conservative Right scares the spit out of a lot of us and the voter turnout reflected that. If Obama and Romney had more in common on the issues, I'm sure there would have been less of a turnout.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 02:11 PM

"The Conservative Right scares the spit out of a lot of us and the voter turnout reflected that."

Yeah. That was exactly my point. That's why I would have voted for Obama. Because he isn't a Republican. The Democrats worry me...but the Republicans (as they are now) absolutely horrify me!


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 02:16 PM

The Greens are the only ones who make sense.
=(:-( ))


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Ron Davies
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 02:22 PM

"Obama didn't win the election". As usual, simplistic.

I myself quite early pointed out the dinosaur-like behavior of the current GOP, particularly regarding Hispanics.

But the Obama team had to change the narrative from a referendum on him, based on the economy of the past 4 years, to a choice on who voters most trusted to represent them while leading us out of the recession.

They did that successfully--and very early.

Romney tried to make it just the old question:   Are you better off now than 4 years ago?    For many, the answer is no--and that's how they voted.

But Obama and his team deserve a lot of the credit for the win--in changing that focus-and in many other respects.

Certainly Romney's own missteps played a role (e.g. 47%).   But the Obama team was on top of their game, to say to the least--especially in fundraising and getting out the vote.   Their internet approach, for instance--in which I participated--was awesome.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 02:31 PM

Sure, Obama ran a good campaign. I'm simply saying that the Republicans blew it for themselves by appealing to too narrow a sector of the electorate. And I'm pleased that they did blow it in that fashion.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Ron Davies
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 02:41 PM

Glad to hear you're willing to give the black man and his team some credit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 02:41 PM

The Greens are the only ones who make sense.
=(:-( ))

Another in a long line of simplistic one liners that convey no useful information or promote constructive dialog.

So who are the Greens, you may ask????

I stole this from Wikepedia:

The Green Party of the United States of America emphasizes environmentalism, non-hierarchical participatory democracy, social justice, respect for diversity, peace, and nonviolence. Their "Ten Key Values,"[1] which are described as non-authoritarian guiding principles, are as follows:

1.Grassroots democracy
2.Social justice and equal opportunity
3.Ecological wisdom
4.Nonviolence
5.Decentralization
6.Community-based economics
7.Feminism and gender equality
8.Respect for diversity
9.Personal and global responsibility
10.Future focus and sustainability
The Green Party does not accept donations from corporations. Thus, the party's platforms and rhetoric critique any corporate influence and control over government, media, and American society at large.


I am sympathetic to their platform... but Ralph Nader's presidential run was unconscionable... he could have run for the senate and not done the damage that he did. Anyone see any improvement in the green cause in the 8 years of G W??? The direct opposite occurred. Way to go, guys. Put the federal government in the hands of big oil interests instead of the guy trying to fight global warming. Dimwits... or egomania on the part of Nader... or both.

Until the Green Party actually becomes a grassroots organization that appears on the local ballots in all the states, I have no use for them. They show up in the national elections... oh look at us, but where the hell are they the rest of the time? I see NOW out there working for justice and they work with system from top to bottom, but the Greens are invisible... unless it's a headline somewhere and then gone again.

I am a professional within the environmental field... I see plenty of effective organizations that have something to show at the end of the day. What I see from the Greens is less than impressive.

And if Mr. Krinkle thinks he is advancing their cause, he is as delusional as the Conservative Right. He is definitely as annoying.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 03:18 PM

Thank you for your kind and thoughtful post.
=(:-( ))


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 03:23 PM

The Greens are hippies with a social conscience and no understanding of how politics works.

Or, in some cases, *has* to work.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 03:30 PM

Maybe what we need are hippies. I have never had a problem with hippies.
=(:-( ))


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Charley Noble
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 03:37 PM

No one has asked GWB how he feels about Romney's defeat. Maybe he was unavailable because of that financial conference in the Cayman Islands.

Sparing ourselves four to eight years of a Romney Administration is something to cheer about. Accomplishing a few more things on the Obama agenda would be even more heartening. Here's hoping for two more Supreme Court judges. Here's hoping for emigration reform. Here's hoping for tax reform which gives relief to the middle class and taxes the rich to provide more of their fair share and closes some of their obvious deduction loopholes. Here's hoping for completion of the withdrawal of our troops from Afghanistan.

That's enough for now.

I'll want more next week!

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 03:53 PM

Unfortunately, they're the Brain-Dead Fundamentalists of the libertarians.

Peace and Love, Bro!


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 05:26 PM

Well, I don't agree that it was Romney who lost... Yes, as with any campaign it's easy to "Monday morning quarterback" and yes, Romney made mistakes... So did Obama...

Romney shouldn't have let the Obama camp get away with so much Bane Capital/rich guy early... They did the rope-a-dope... Bad move...

Obama shouldn't have let the Repubs repeat "failed stimulus" over and over and should have come prepared to debate in the 1st debate...

What it came down to was swing voters who just felt that Obama cared more about them and that Romney cared tom much about himself...

That's the election as I see it...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Greg F.
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 05:42 PM

No one has asked GWB how he feels about Romney's defeat.

Who could possibly give a shit?


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 05:54 PM

Is anyone supposed to answer that?

Now we have 2 rhetorical questions! ;-D


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 06:14 PM

Obama's officially won Florida now. That makes his map look even better.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 06:24 PM

Where did you get that, LH???

WaPo ain't on to it yet...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 06:25 PM

It's on that other thread, isn't it?


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 06:38 PM

Four more years of incompetency.
=(:-( /)


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 06:49 PM

Nah, LH...

I don't think it has been called... NBC News just reported that it's still out... Might be out for weeks...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 06:55 PM

Oh, okay. I thought it was official because Romney's people conceded.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 07:15 PM

I heard that Florida's votes were in and counted and that Obama had won THERE, too! What the hell is going on?

If Florida screws another Democrat out of winning even when he wins the popular vote, then I move we saw Florida loose and set it adrift into the Caribbean!!

No. Into the Bermuda Triangle!!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 07:28 PM

Yo....

Obama has 303 electoral now... Florida doesn't matter... If Florida and it's washrag crybaby Republican election riggers ever certify it then add 29 more electoral votes to the 303...

Florida is a joke...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 08:25 PM

Florida story as of 50 minutes ago (ABC News)
-------------------------------------------------------
"As of Thursday afternoon, Mr Obama had 49.9 per cent of the state-wide vote versus 49.24 per cent for Republican Mitt Romney, according to the Florida Division of Elections.

But two of the three counties where ballots are still being tallied, Broward and Palm Beach, are heavily Democratic.

The third county, Duval, has more registered Democrats than Republicans, but has traditionally leaned Republican in presidential contests."
------------------------------------------------------------

The difference in total votes is still orders of magnitude larger than when Bush won Florida and the Presidency with 537 votes. 537! And a loss in the popular vote.

If that was a mandate and a legitimate presidency, then the Righties need to shut the F%$@ up about the legitimacy of this election.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 08:31 PM

Exactly, TIA...

Florida has become a joke...

Maybe if they can't figure out how to hold an election they should ask the UN to come in and supervise them...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 08:55 PM

The precise of number of votes that separated Gore and Bush in Florida may never be known, nor are we ever likely to know for certain who won there in 2000.

The tiny margin of victory, no matter who you think it belongs to, is well within the margin of error created by the counting of *six million* ballots cast.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 09:11 PM

Well, lighter... The day that the Supreme Court stopped the recount started with Bush leading by 500+ votes and with every hour that number was coming down, down, down... Another day and Gore would overtake Bush so the Supremes had to act FAST!!!

And they did... Just hours before Gore overtaking Bush...

Source: "Supreme Injustice" by Alan Dershowitz...

But even before that the Jeb Bush and Katherine Bush had rigged the deck by illegally removing 60,000 African Americans from the voting roles...

Source" "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy" by Greg Palist...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Charley Noble
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 09:18 PM

Florida is no joke; there is abundance evidence of felonious behavior on the part of State election officials to suppress the Democratic vote. As I've said in the Florida thread the Republicans have officially conceded (so chalk up the 29 Electoral votes) but vote counting is still ongoing. The Obama current margin of victory of 50,000 will probably double to 100,000 if all the outstanding votes are actually counted.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 09:24 PM

Yes, Charley...

I am wrong... It is well beyond being a joke... No wonder Charlie Christ doesn't want to be it's governor ever again... Can't blame him...

b~


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 09:39 PM

If every one of those 60,000 African-American votes had gone to Gore, they would have made up just 1/100 of the total number cast: 1%.

Almost certainly still within the margin of error.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: michaelr
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 09:45 PM

Ron Davies: I'm still waiting for you to justify what you posted about me. If you cannot, you owe me an apology.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Ron Davies
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 10:08 PM

OK Michael, I'm sorry for having accused you about whining that the election was going to be stolen.

Please accept my apology.

Instead, you whine about how Obama is not perfect.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Ron Davies
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 10:16 PM

And I even congratulated you on your ability to put a few sentences together and on your grasp of grammar.    What's more, I think you even spelled everything correctly.

And I encouraged you in your budding political career.

Gee, I'm praising you to the skies.    One would think you would be happy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 11:02 PM

Richard Bridge says: "One of the most shocking things is the irrefutable proof of the voting machines altering people's votes."

I think you misunderstand Americans, Richard. Americans are compulsively honest (in a legalistic sort of way) and are very unlikely to "fix" voting machines to alter election results. What they do instead, is manipulate the laws to fit their designs, and then follow those manipulated laws to the letter.

That's what happened in Florida. Thousands of people were "legally" disqualified from voting. It was unfair and unjust, but it was "legal."

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: michaelr
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 11:05 PM

Thanks for the apology. Now get a towel and contain that dripping sarcasm.

I would be happy to have an adult conversation about - well, just about anything. But gratuitous smears don't fall into that category. If you care to read back, my first post in this discussion stated that after all the money that was spent on the campaign, nothing's really different in Washington, and asked who was made happy by that.
It's a question, not a whine. Look it up if you can't tell the difference.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: LadyJean
Date: 09 Nov 12 - 01:09 AM

I just found out that folks in Colorado passed a measure, asking their state legislature to call for a constitutional amendment overturning Citizens United. I'm hoping a few more states will follow their lead.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 09 Nov 12 - 06:51 AM

Should America be run by a council of Native Americans? Should Australia be run by a council of Aborigines? Should New Zealand/Aotearoa be run by a council of Maoris? Is imperialism wrong? My poem on "Land Rights" - http://www.myspace.com/walkaboutsverse/blog/476693050


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Allan Conn
Date: 09 Nov 12 - 07:12 AM

"Should America be run by a council of Native Americans?"

You could run that line for every country I'd imagine. Why should people descended from the invading Scotti, Anglo-Saxons, Norse, Danish and Norman French have a say in the UK parliament? Never mind all the newer interlowpers!


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: bobad
Date: 09 Nov 12 - 07:43 AM

Informative graphic correlating education levels and voting choice and the best part of it is that the data re education levels is provided by Fox which accidentally insults every Romney voter in the country.

http://www.happyplace.com/19076/election-infographic-shows-most-educated-states-voted-for-obama


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Charley Noble
Date: 09 Nov 12 - 08:06 AM

Does anyone else on this forum find the continuous personal bickering irritating or distracting?

I know, the answer is "Shove it up your ass!"

I get enough of that kind of rancor from our Governor in Maine (Paul LePage), who has made coast to coast headlines with his rantings. Take a deep breath before you post.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 09 Nov 12 - 08:23 AM

unfortunately, Charlie this is what often comes when discussing relgion or politics... and here they are rolled together into one for the Republicans. the perfect storm of verbal abuse.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: goatfell
Date: 09 Nov 12 - 09:55 AM

good result


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Amos
Date: 09 Nov 12 - 10:41 AM

I am delighted with Mister Obama's victory and his gracious acceptance speech. Thanks god there is still a smidgen of relative sanity left in the overall populace. I am astonished at the bitterness that is surfacing amongst his detractors, and the extremity of their assertions. But there were major positive events buried in the noise of this election, aside from Obama's win. Elizabeth Warren is an example. Gay marriage rights in three states. Legalization of cannabis in two states. First gay Congress-person goes to Washington. SOme really good corrective steps.

It's not that I don't appreciate the concerns of my conservative friends; it is the estimation of relative importances that sets us apart.

I am very happy about Obama's win; the alternative would have been horrific.



A


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Nov 12 - 12:28 PM

Indeed Obama wins! *big grin*


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: TIA
Date: 09 Nov 12 - 12:40 PM

Actually, it is all about Plate Tectonics!
Obama had the support of Cretaceous diatoms
.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Nov 12 - 04:09 PM

Ron Davies: I'm still waiting for you to justify what you posted about me.

HA! You might as well wait for the Second Coming. You obviously are not familiar with He Who Knows All.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Charley Noble
Date: 09 Nov 12 - 04:10 PM

TIA-

Amazing revelation and so well reasoned and illustrated.

And the Republicans lost because they relied too heavily on the turnout of dinosaurs.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 12:07 PM

Angry white dinosaurs Mr. Noble
Haha


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Ron Davies
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 10:11 AM

Sarcasm?   Moi?

If you can't stand the heat....

After all, Michael, I made sure to say that when I talked about "querulous old biddies" I was not talking about you or Richard.





"nothing is really different".    You continue your record of almost perfect error.

The fact that the President will never run again actually frees him to do what he really thinks should be done without regard to re-election.   He will now be aiming for his own legacy.

Therefore:   

1)    There will be a deal to avoid the "fiscal cliff".    I don't claim to know the details--perhaps you do.

2)      There will be huge reform and a long-term solution to the   problem of illegal immigration.    This I can tell you about a bit.   

It will definitely include a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants.    This will probably be at least actually 2 paths--an easy one for people under 30 and a harder one for those over 30.

Why will this happen?

Simple, for anybody who reads and thinks:    there are enough members of the GOP aware that the party is now on a one-way trip to political oblivion that Obama will be able to strip off sufficient votes to get it through.    Obama of course has a huge impetus to try to cement Hispanics in the Democratic coalition.   At this point they will expect--and get --action on illegal immigration.

Cynicism is always an easy, comfortable refuge--for those who don't read or think---but it is not always the right answer.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Ron Davies
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 10:22 AM

Furthermore, the GOP has a big reason for actually running over their own "tea-party" troglodytes in pushing a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants:   quite a few Hispanics are actually rather socially conservative and, when the issue of illegal immigration is removed, may well vote with the GOP on quite a few issues. Sensible Republicans--yes, they do exist-- like Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio realize this--and will push others to act.

If you don't believe this, consider that in 2004, about 40% of Hispanics voted for GWB---and may have made the difference in places like NM.    Since 2004, the more reasonable GOP people on immigration have paid a huge price---like Rick Perry and Newt Gingrich, for instance=-- and the GOP Hispanic vote has sunk like a stone.

That will change.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: sciencegeek
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 10:40 AM

I think that another result of this election will be an all out effort to ensure equal opportunity to the voting booth. A national campaign to spend the next 4 years making sure that every citizen, regardless of race, creed or political , that wants to exercise their right to voe will be registered to vote in the national elections.

Look at it this way... the feds are actually the ones who determine voting rights... the states are SUPPOSED to incorporate that into their voting laws.... and we know how well that has worked in certain states.

we need to open up the voting rights issue to the light of day - and that includes gerrymandering- and work for a more just and equitable system. that take more than 4 years, I'm sure, but we gotta start now.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Ron Davies
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 11:00 AM

Gerrymandering will never stop.    Both parties do it, and there is no incentive to stop--and a powerful incentive to keep it going.

You have to appeal to the self-interest of one or both parties on this.   Not possible.

If anybody thinks it is possible, please explain. I don't claim to have the last word on this--but at this point see no alternative. It's just not a burning issue to enough voters to have an impact.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: sciencegeek
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 11:12 AM

the point of opening the process to the light of day is expose the excesses and abuses that happen... then make those the issues that need to be addressed.

figure out a more equitable system & promote that... make it a referendum on future ballots. settling for the same old same old results in.... you guessed it, the same old BS.

people continue to work for peace, so why not a little justice as well?


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Ron Davies
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 11:24 AM

You still need to appeal to the self-interest of the major parties.   Since gerrymandering--in contrast to illegal immigration or the fiscal cliff--is not a big issue to most people, how will you do this?


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: sciencegeek
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 11:41 AM

well, pointing out the abuses of voter registration is a first step... along with getting people registered. now you've got people who are signed up and want to make difference.

point out that gerrymandering is political parties' way of taking away options from voters... now you have upset voters who see it as one more way of denying them a real choice. if political parties balk, use the process to put in on the ballot as a referendum ...

gay marriage rights was just such an issue recently, yes?


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Ron Davies
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 12:03 PM

Voters in general don't see gerrymandering as a means of denying them a voice.   They just want the person who has closest views to them in office. Parties realize this. That's why gerrymandering usually means including more and more voters of similar political bent.

So gerrymandering is way, way, down the list of burning issues for virtually everybody.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: sciencegeek
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 05:44 AM

well, "this boy", as you so crudely put it, just so happens to be the President of the United State of America - elected by a majority of the voters. Including this 61 year old, non-aligned voter.

I'd never heard of him prior to the 2008 election, but what learned of him was enough to please me... because I grew up valuing the principles of this nation.

The South lost in 1865 and the Conservative Right lost last week. The voice of the American people spoke... and spoke loudly against the fascist BS that seeks to destroy our democracy.

God Bless America!


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: sciencegeek
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 05:49 AM

oh, I left out this ....

"his woman" is his wife, you jerk... AND the First Lady!

the disrespect shown by you classless, arrogant fools is what cost you the election.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 06:06 AM

Thats funny sg......there are none more arrogant than the "liberals"

They spout their uninformed, media inspired nonesense everywhere and brook no argument or debate.

Racist, homophobe, bigot, "liberal" words to describe any who oppose their religion.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: sciencegeek
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 06:41 AM

well, well.... you must have missed the scene in the movie Heat of the Night.... you know, the one where the white southern sheriff addresses the black northern detective as "boy"... to which the reply is, "They call me, MR. Tibbs.

are you seriously going to imply that the poster who uses the title, Greensboro, NC didn't "know" what they were doing - referring to President Obama as "boy" and the First Lady as "his woman".   

John McCain - obviously with Liberal leanings- didn't allow such language BS to go unchallenged during his presidential bid.... and I won't let it slide here.

and for your information, I am not now nor have I ever been a Liberal.
What I am, however if the daughter of and the wife of American veterans who fought in wars for this country. My father fought in WWII against fascists who were as racist and bigoted as they come.

Sorry... I have no intention of dishonoring their service by letting Greensboro, NC go unchallenged. and neither should you!


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: sciencegeek
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 07:25 AM

My oh my, It just amazes me how so many folk were sucked in by this boy. Just wait and see what will happen to this great nation over the next four years. He will care for the kin and we are going to pick up the tab for it.

Sadly the younger generation in this country are gullible, materialistic and down right unpatriotic.

I saw his woman on Fox last last talking about health ! well she needs to check out her own padding before talking like that. Was I born on the side of a mountain.

lets examine this bigoted crap point by point.... "this boy" will care for "the kin".... does anyone for one second think this is a reference to the president's mother's side of the family???? I read this a paraphrase for " that darkie is going to take care of those n*ggers instead us deserving white folk"

and during slavery, while blacks where allowed some access to religion, they were not allowed to marry.... "jumping the broom" was as close as they could get.... after, slaves were bought & sold like cattle... which is what were- thinking livestock. so the reference to "his woman" is harkening back to that attitude.

so, I stand by my defining of Greensboro, NC as a racist bigot. and NAZI fascist did their best to dehumanize Das Juden... to the point where is was their patriotic duty to exterminate 6 million Jews.

is this really the side you want to be on????


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 07:29 AM

You might as well talk to the wall SG.

His head is so far up the cul-de-sac that he hasn't seen daylight for ages.

When he last looked he thought Mussolini too liberal.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 08:04 AM

Just to be entirely clear, my comment related to the Pharaoh, not the ignorant redneck cracker.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 10:15 AM

Ake's definition of liberal is different from the one the rest of the world uses, so it is hardly worth arguing with him.

And, I encourage Greensboro NC to keep talking, keep posting, keep writing to his representatives, and keep his message in the news.

It will ensure that his clan continues to lose and lose big.

Please Greensboro - got anything else to get off your chest?


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 01:18 PM

You're not comprehending Ake's definition, TIA, because you fail to notice that he puts quotes around it.

What he clearly means is people who posture as liberals, and even imagine themselves to BE liberals, but who are unaware of their own hypocrisy and knee jerk approach to things. They consistently judge the book by the cover, rather than taking the trouble to actually read the book. They are filled with the zeal of the righteous who react to outer appearances, but who do not think.

As such, they are a betrayal of the actual historical liberal tradition, a tradition which some of us still remember fondly and still try to uphold. Akenaton is mourning the death of genuine liberalism as it once was, and its replacement by the present very common shallow "liberal" posturing and unthinking reaction which mouths empty cliches, erects straw men to demonize, and enshrines new forms of prejudice which are taken for granted and even seen as "good" by the so-called "liberals" who embrace them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 03:46 PM

Okay, so when he bashes liberals (as he so often does) he is actually bashing not-liberals. Okay, that clears up the discussion.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 04:18 PM

George....sometimes i think you know me better than I know myself!

Spooky! :0o


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 05:04 PM

Tia ....I have no time for illiberal liberals.
At least most social conservatives actually believe what they espouse.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST,DDT
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 05:45 PM

Liberal, not liberal--who cares? I'm glad Romney lost. This was an election the republicans had to win--HAD to win it. Spent enormous amounts of money to win it. We're sure they were going to win it.

A win would have validated four more years of moralistic, anti-intellectual bullshit forced down our throats by the shovelful. I've already had more than my fill. The right wing kooks who wear intolerance, hatred and bigotry on their chests like medals of honor have to slink back under the rocks the GOP looked under to find and recruit them and cry their little eyes out. Well, that just breaks my heart.

And they won't figure out what's wrong with their approach by 2016 so they can write that election off as an automatic loss. By 2020, I still don't see it. What happened? They got in bed with hatred and there's always a price to pay somewhere down the road when you do that. The GOP will have to oust all the nutballs that comprise their base and those people won't go without a fight to the death because they have no other choice. So over the next 8 years, there will be serious bloodbathing in the GOP as it searches for a soul it currently lacks.

Creationists, birthers, racists, misogynists, conspiracy kooks, homophobes, anti-intellectuals--all were ready to set up shop in Washington and spread their toxins around but now must find someplace else--preferably outside the country. Americans finally got it right. Evidently they are as sick of that rotting heap of stinking bullshit as I am. Maybe they saw how nice it was to get a four-year break from having to stare into a toilet full of writhing shit-covered scum-crawlers from the far right decided an eight-year break would be so much better.

With them neutered, maybe this country can get back to some semblance of normalcy where "evolution" is no longer a banned word. Good riddance to the GOP. No mincing words here: GOP, I'm ecstatic you lost, you deserved to lose, you deserved so much worse than you got, now fuck you!


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Amos
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 05:49 PM

Ake:

You haven't been paying attention to Mister Romney's recent spate of blatant alterations of fact and general duplicity, obviously.

Maybe where you are the social conservatives have a higher order of integrity!! :D


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 06:23 PM

Ake's "liberal" bears no resemblance to the real Liberal political position. It is a conveniently labeled bucket into which he tosses anyone he disagrees with, or who disagrees with him.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 06:48 PM

I have as much time for political conservatives, as I have for social "liberals".....


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 06:50 PM

DDT is highly toxic.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 07:25 PM

Nice rant, DDT... That's the way I see it, as well...

You did, however, leave out the following:

These anti- intellectuals who beaten down the folks who have bothered to get an education will seek out the very best educated doctor when they find out they have cancer... That's called...

...hypocrisy!!!

These people knew fully well that the stimulus worked so they attacked it as having been a "failure"... The truth of the matter is that it has created 4,5 million jobs... That's called...

...lying!!! BTW, what do we call people who lie??? LIARS!!!

These people pound their chests for "democracy" yet did everything in their power to disenfranchise as many Democrat voters... That's called...

...anti-democracy!!!

These people sat around in a circle jerk telling each other they were going to win while refusing to accept real pollsters... That makes them...

...ignorant!!!

These creeps want to force a woman who has been raped to submit to a forced vaginal ultrasound in order to abort a pregnancy caused by that rape... That why these people are not all that different from...

..the Taliban!!!

Yes, these people are eat up with hate, with ignorance, with bigotry, with intolerance, with arrogance, with tin-foil thinking, with obesity, with lies, with lice, with cooties, with dung, with stink, with filth, with the devil hisself, with everything that is evil, with rot, with goobers drippin' off 'um, with cancer from smokin', from "the sugar" from eating too many Kristie Kream doughnuts, with shoes on the wrong feet, with wrong feet in their mouth, with mouths full of rotting teeth, with bellies that look like medicine balls, with CAT scans of the head that show emptiness, with their fingers in their nose, with their heads up Grover Norquist's ass, with their dicks stuck in farm animals, with books being something to start fires with, with bald tires and bald heads, with NASCAR being their God, with lots of tattoos and with...

...a bad case of eat up stupid!!!

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: frogprince
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 08:52 PM

Yes indeed, Ake; I'm sure your buddy from Greensboro is much more sincere in every word that comes out from under his pointy-topped incognito hood than Sciencegeek, with her meally-mouthed pseudo-liberalism.

L.H., do you consider Sciencegeek's response to Guest, Greensboro, to be an example of the kind of alleged liberalism that makes you wish for good old fashioned genuine liberalism?


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 09:01 PM

Google up Greensboro Massacre, ya'll...

1979 wasn't that long ago...

Oh, for folks too lazy to Google it up... Here's what went down... There was a non-violent civil rights demonstration organized... Problem was that there was also the KKK... Those things don't mix so the KKKers set up on the march route and shot and killed 5 demonstrators...

Yeah, everyone seems to know of Kent St...

Greensboro??? Not...

BTW, none of tyhe kkkers were charged...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST,DDT
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 10:41 PM

Yes, Bobert, they are hypocrites as well. You forgot one example of it: all their mindless shrieking about the need for small govt and how big govt is evil and intrudes into people's lives where it has no business until the subject of women's right and gay rights comes up and they can't demand the govt outlaw both and legislate them out of existence fast enough. That reveals what all their loathsome whining about small govt is--BULLSHIT!


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: sciencegeek
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 11:29 PM

hey, frogprince, or should I say toad?

I do not belong to any political party... and I do happen to believe in the following:

    I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.


And unlike some of you out there, I try to practice what I preach.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 11:46 PM

Small government? Ha. In the words of Stephanie Miller;

"Republicans are the party of small government alright...they want to shrink it down until it fits in a woman's vagina."


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 01:50 AM

I was at the hardware store today, and heard a man and woman, both about 70 years old, talking about they election. You'd think they were talking about the end of the world. The guy was so angry about it, that he seemed like he might do something drastic.

I can't understand why some people seem to be so afraid of Barack Obama. He's certainly not perfect, but he didn't do anything horrible to the country in his first four years.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: sciencegeek
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 07:12 AM

reason can only prevail over irrational fear with a lot of work & the passage of time.... and is easily set back.

growing up in the 50's & '60's, I knew that racism & bigotry was wrong... because it wasn't fair or honest... people are people... no more no less.

during the time of the race riots I was on a school trip to a site in New York City where we encountered a group of black girls chanting anti-white slogans. It was my first taste of what it feels like to be hated for no reason, other than the color of my skin. scary as hell.

the worst part was the gut reaction it left.... for years after that, I would get that "fight or flight" twinge when first meeting a black person. I knew it was irrational, wrong & shameful... hated the fact that it existed at all and did everything I could to overcome it. And strove to make sure the person I met was treated in a polite and friendly manner.

the worst of it is over... but I still "see" the color of a person's skin... something I had never done before.

it's conditioning... brainwashing if you will... and as long as we have hate mongers out there flaming the fans, it will continue.

but exposure of our young people to all manner of different people in a non threatening way will go a long way to defusing the fear & hate of "difference"... look at the increased acceptance of non-straight folks.


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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 07:23 AM

""What he clearly means is people who posture as liberals, and even imagine themselves to BE liberals, but who are unaware of their own hypocrisy and knee jerk approach to things. They consistently judge the book by the cover, rather than taking the trouble to actually read the book. They are filled with the zeal of the righteous who react to outer appearances, but who do not think.""

Let's get one thing clear about this attempt to make the Pharaoh's abysmal attitudes look reasonable.

The people upon wwhom Ake pastes this label arre

1. Those who oppose homophobia.
2. Those who oppose his denigration of travellers.
3. Those who support Gay marriage.

In fact, just about anybody who supports equal rights and equal treatment for all.

THOSE ARE THE "LIBERALS" HE DESPISES!

So put away that bucket of whitewash LH.

Don T.


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