Being an old folksinger - don't like it

Subject: RE: Being an old folksinger - don't like it
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 01:46 PM

Not blank Roy....that sounds like an old school folk singer.

Subject: RE: Being an old folksinger - don't like it
From: RoyH (Burl)
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 12:39 PM

BIg Al, Thank you for the nice comments.

Herga Kitty, I too miss that festival. My spell in chargeis the thing I'm most proud of in all my folk music life. I packed in too early, but there were a lot of other things going on and I just didn't have the time to give it full commitment. If a chance ever came I'd love to run it again.
Yes, I still do the shirt sleeve rolling. Please tell Herga I'd like to roll my sleeves there once again. 'Roy at 80'still has blank dates.

Subject: RE: Being an old folksinger - don't like it
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 15 Nov 12 - 03:46 PM

Al, you can't learn a hell of a lot in the new school. Stick with the old one.

Subject: RE: Being an old folksinger - don't like it
From: GUEST,Seonaid
Date: 15 Nov 12 - 01:17 PM

I guess a lot could be read from the voice tone of the announcer.
Makes a big difference whether it was respectful or dismissive.
If the latter, just assume the poor whippersnapper didn't have a clue.
(Nearing 70 myself, I deal with those who don't know to assess me.)
You can't be responsible for anyone else's attitude or education.
And yeah, wear your "old school" tie with pride --
You know, the one with the guitar frets painted on it!
:o)

Subject: RE: Being an old folksinger - don't like it
From: Ernest
Date: 15 Nov 12 - 11:34 AM

(Just to get closer to # 100)

Beats being a DEAD folksinger I guess...

Subject: RE: Being an old folksinger - don't like it
From: Jack Campin
Date: 14 Nov 12 - 08:59 PM

Some time ago I came across a description of how traditional song gets passed on in Hungary. You don't find old people learning songs in their childhood and then amazing the audience with the same ones 60 years later: instead, there are different repertoires for each age group. You sing the songs that are appropriate for your own age, after learning them from singers not much older than you are. (To some extent you get the same phenomenon in other places, even the UK for some kinds of song).

Advantages:

- you get to keep learning new stuff.

- you don't need an enormous memory since collective memory is working for you.

- nobody complains that your old material was better.

- the old-singer's music you get to do near the end of your life will suit an old person's voice and performing style.

- you don't get to bore your audience rigid by singing about issues that only mattered before they were born.

- songs written 40 years ago that nobody but the songwriter had any time for don't get rehashed, since the songwriter themselves would be too embarrassed to publicly perform a song that only made sense to the 20-something they once were.

The idea that one man with his guitar gets to create songs for the ages that the world will want to pay to hear for his entire career is usually just plain delusional. Almost all singer-songwriters can expect to wake up one day as failures at best, grotesques at worst.

Subject: RE: Being an old folksinger - don't like it
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Nov 12 - 08:38 PM

Hm....put it like that Seonaid - it sounds like a compliment. I really don't feel it was meant like that.

More sort of....if this guy was a building, he wouldn't be on mains electricity - anyway what use would he have for a bathroom? Probably shts in the woods.

Subject: RE: Being an old folksinger - don't like it
From: GUEST,Seonaid
Date: 14 Nov 12 - 08:19 PM

If being an "old-school folksinger" means having enough respect for a song to learn it right and present it honestly, and caring enough about your audience to want them to hear it right and maybe learn to like the song themsleves, then I'll happily be damn well "unapologetic" about it.

Subject: RE: Being an old folksinger - don't like it
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Nov 12 - 07:10 PM

If you say its great, that's good enuff for me.

Subject: RE: Being an old folksinger - don't like it
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 14 Nov 12 - 05:40 PM

Huh?

GfS

Subject: RE: Being an old folksinger - don't like it
From: GUEST,AEOLA
Date: 14 Nov 12 - 04:51 PM

your ref to 'sanity' ..... Sankey! Remember it's Great Sankey!Enjoy every day.

Subject: RE: Being an old folksinger - don't like it
From: GUEST,BigDaddy
Date: 14 Nov 12 - 04:41 PM

Was performing with a friend as a duo at a pub years ago. The chalk board by the door read, "Appearing tonight: Irish Meat Pies." Someone had decided to put the daily special on there instead of our names. We considered changing our name for future appearances, but... We briefly used the name "Parcel of Rogues," but gave it up when we realized most of our audiences didn't have a clue what a rogue was. And we were billed as the "Parcel Rugs," and "Partial Rugs."

Subject: RE: Being an old folksinger - don't like it
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 05:02 PM

I guess you have to be old to remember any of it!"
not really, I am young, and I remember getting paid to play there

Subject: RE: Being an old folksinger - don't like it
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 03:25 PM

Did Roy roll up his shirtsleeves before he sang Grey Funnel Line...?

Kitty

Subject: RE: Being an old folksinger - don't like it
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 03:10 PM

I've seen Roy sing lots of times.

One of my favourite memories was one night at The Robin Hood in Brinsley - Dave and Ruth Cooper's old club.

Roy started off with One more day on the grey funnel line, and I swear there was this sort of woosh in the room when he sang the first line as everyone sort of leaned forward and sighed with delight at that voice.

A great performer.

Subject: RE: Being an old folksinger - don't like it
From: johncharles
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 02:26 PM

have the number of comments equalled Al's age yet?

Subject: RE: Being an old folksinger - don't like it
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 01:52 PM

I must have blinked - it's no time at all since Roy was 70 (and still Burl-y).

I really, really miss the National Festival (which Roy ran for a while IIRC) when young and old, traddies and revivalists, got together for a wonderful weekend of singing and playing (including in the bar until very late) at Keele, Loughborough, Sutton Bonington....

I guess you have to be old to remember any of it!

Kitty

Subject: RE: Being an old folksinger - don't like it
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 12:47 AM

Yeh that crowd would really understand a song about the good old days.
What is WRONG with these 'in the tradition' people? Why CAN'T they see that a living folk music has something to do with a living audience understanding them?

What's wrong with 'the tradition' in a nutshell! Gawd help us.

Subject: RE: Being an old folksinger - don't like it
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 04:14 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9U6pjr3DEo
no wonder you were lost for words

Subject: RE: Being an old folksinger - don't like it
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 04:11 PM

"I don't really remember where it all went !!!
old fk singers don't die, they just forget the f words.
Betsy, they dont write em like that any more

Subject: RE: Being an old folksinger - don't like it
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 03:00 PM

Big Al Whittle: "Anyway, besides a villainous twirl of the moustache - and a dismissive curl of the lip at my humble efforts as a troubadour - do you have anything to add to the discussion?"

Yes!..My absolute Best Wishes and Warmest Regards! Keep on singin'!

....Besides, you have to knock their socks off....even if they are to stiff to bend over and put them back on!

Regards!!!

GfS

Subject: RE: Being an old folksinger - don't like it
From: GUEST,Backwoodsman sans Cookie
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 02:47 PM

I like being an old folksinger - it's keeping me young.

Subject: RE: Being an old folksinger - don't like it
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 02:45 PM

contact me, roy

Subject: RE: Being an old folksinger - don't like it
From: RoyH (Burl)
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 02:28 PM

I'm not moaning Ernest. I like being an old folksinger. See message below.ROY.

Subject: RE: Being an old folksinger - don't like it
From: Ernest
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 11:38 AM

This thread has grown quite a bit.

All this moaning surely must qualify us all as old school folkies... ;0)

Subject: RE: Being an old folksinger - don't like it
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 11:11 AM

I'll mention it wherever I can Roy. We have the Wessex Festival down here in Weymouth at the start of June. Is that one week too early...?
I can;t help thinking you should be the celebrity judge at the Saltburn unaccompanied singer comp. And Pete Skinner is currently posting round to everybody a Fylde poster from 40 years ago with your name on it.

You never know, Alan might have forgiven you by now and take a chance with another booking.

I would like to think so. I know your career climaxed with that performance as boxing trainer in Boon (special skills payment for waving a towel and wearing a white jumper). Still forgive and forget..eh?

(As I remember Jack Hudson, Mick Peat and I were the howling mob of fight fans drowning in a sea of theatrical stage smoke.)

Subject: RE: Being an old folksinger - don't like it
From: RoyH (Burl)
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 08:00 AM

After reading and thoroughly enjoying this thread I feel I must add my twopennorth. I am an old folksinger, and I DO like it, singing that is. I do have a few pains in places where I didn't have places before but I'll be 80 years old next June, and am mighty glad that I can still sing and tell a few yarns. I started as a professional singer in 1964, so I'm in my 48th year as a pro. Those years have given me so much pleasure and introduced me to so many great people that I don't want to stop. I thought I'd stop a few years ago when I had some health problems, but 'retirement didn't work' and I carried on singing, and was glad I did despite a few more problems thereafter. What I am now doing is trying to work up some 'Roy at 80' gigs next year. My birthday is 15th June, and I'll be looking for gigs from the 16th June to 16 December. Some clubs are already on board, and I'd welcome enquiries from any others, festivals too. I am of the old school regarding age, and regarding style and attitude,I sing unaccompanied, and endeavour to entertain and involve my audience throughout a performance, a very 'old school' approach. I had a really good 'Roy at 70' tour ten years ago, and I'm older and better now. Anyone interested please pm me here or email [e-mail] I look forward to hearing from you. Cheers,ROY

Subject: RE: Being an old folksinger - don't like it
From: GUEST,Mark Addison
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 06:18 AM

So old I forgot to write anything!
Will be in touch Al.

Subject: RE: Being an old folksinger - don't like it
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 05:13 AM

Hello Mark! Give me an e-mail or a call

[e-mail]

or

01305854979

Floreat Bostona!

Subject: RE: Being an old folksinger - don't like it
From: GUEST,Mark Addison
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 04:17 AM

Subject: RE: Being an old folksinger - don't like it
From: GUEST,big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 07:36 PM

I think we're getting into deep waters here....

Big Al Whittle , the Andrew Rieu of the folkscene...

A classic approach to knob jokes, disreputable behaviour, and old farts savoured and respected....

http://soundcloud.com/denise_whittle/prince-harrys-knob

Subject: RE: Being an old folksinger - don't like it
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 04:03 PM

All that's required is a more friendly way to distinguish "old folk" from the newer (mostly) "filk."

Just make sure your publicity describes it, not as "old" but as

     CLASSIC!!!



((As long as the crowd isn't suggesting "ol' fart oughta be stuffed in a museum, and they don't show up carrying torches and a rope.))

John

Subject: RE: Being an old folksinger - don't like it
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 12:06 PM

Sanity - I thought for a moment that was a district of St Helens. Butno, that was Sankey.

So its an allusion to your desired and professed mental health. I would need to see the relevant papers to reassure myself on that point.

Anyway, besides a villainous twirl of the moustache - and a dismissive curl of the lip at my humble efforts as a troubadour - do you have anything to add to the discussion?

Subject: RE: Being an old folksinger - don't like it
From: Betsy
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 11:14 AM

Aw Fuck !!!! - you're right Al - I forgot.
I'm a bit like an average golfer - I only remember the good shots !!

Subject: RE: Being an old folksinger - don't like it
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 10:44 AM

And now debuting as the youngest folk singer candidate for re-incarnation, let's give him a warm round of applause, please welcome the one and only, the dynamic Big Al Whittle!...all other just pound your walkers!

GfS

Subject: RE: Being an old folksinger - don't like it
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 10:35 AM

Margaret Thatcher, Vietnam, Watergate, Idi Amin, 9/11, the miner's strike......

As that most relevant of folksong writers said, its loveliness goes on and on...

Subject: RE: Being an old folksinger - don't like it
From: Betsy
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 08:51 AM

Hi Al, I seem to remember having a great time though, what an exciting era to have lived through. Man on the moon , the Beatles , England winning the world cup when I was 19 years old. Ahhhhhhh.......

Subject: RE: Being an old folksinger - don't like it
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 08:13 AM

Yeh! Bugger, isn't it?

Subject: RE: Being an old folksinger - don't like it
From: Betsy
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 06:58 AM

Cheer up Big Al - two more of us become officially Old School this week coming me and Garbutt reach our 65th Birthdays. I don't really remember where it all went !!!

Subject: RE: Being an old folksinger - don't like it
From: GUEST,John Blanks
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 02:30 AM

I believe it is indeed he, Al. Unfortunately the link to Mark's website is U/S now, OOD I think, and I've lost the password to my own website so I can't update it ("mmmmmm, silly old bugger", I hear you exclaim!). I'm sure Mark will look in to this thread again, so he should see your message.

Subject: RE: Being an old folksinger - don't like it
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 01:14 AM

Is that this Mark Addison?

http://www.angelfire.com/folk/johnblanks/lincs.html


Do touch base with me - facebook, or whatever!

Subject: RE: Being an old folksinger - don't like it
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 04:05 PM

Thanks for that Matt Milton. I'm having fun checking out your list. However, I can see your point of view and I respect it.

To me the first three seemed more old school than me. I can see them fitting seamlessly into the Harding programme and everything that goes with it.

I did a gig with a very good songwriter from Bristol or Bath (or somewhere like that - bloke called Gaz Brookfield. To me Gaz exemplified the newe school. Made me feel like I was a dinosaur.

Gaz and the cohorts that I see like him - bravely (heroicly in my book)coming up from the noisy student bars and and excruciating open mic scene seem more a conyinuation of what I have done. In my time I cut through playing the toilets by using electric guitars but playing them like acoustics. The new guys I have seen smack their guitars around - completely disinterested in finger picking - but they have evolved something that works.

I can see why you would group Sanjay Brain alongside those guys you mention. But Sunjay's different - his heroes really are people like me and the late Roger Brooks - guys who played the shitholes, where folkmusic is found.

I think thats what pisses me off about the 'old school' tag. I've always felt like an outlaw to the folkscene. If there was an old school, I was expelled years ago.

Subject: RE: Being an old folksinger - don't like it
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 03:30 PM

I think I saw a new-school folk band on YouTube. There were half a dozen young people in tight clothes and freaky hair-dos, there were red and blue stagelights, and fake fog was drifting about. The instruments were traditional and the style was hackneyed. (guitars went blangety-blangety throughout.) In other words, it was an imitation of a rock band.

Yes, I saw that Fairport Convention documentary repeat on TV last night too.

Subject: RE: Being an old folksinger - don't like it
From: GUEST,Backwoodsman sans Cookie
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 03:13 PM

Agree on all counts, John.

Subject: RE: Being an old folksinger - don't like it
From: Harmonium Hero
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 03:06 PM

To be honest, I wouldn't be offended by the term 'Old School'. To me, it means somebody who hasn't won a career on a TV show, but has gone out there and done the footwork; who knows the job and gets on with it. An 'Old School Folk Singer' would be somebody who has got established by doing the floorspots, and who gets up in a room with 30 people and sings/plays unamplified. Someone who doesn't hasn't got an agent. And you don't have to be singing Trad to qualify. I'd call Jack Hudson 'Old School'. And I reckon there are some young 'Old School' performers out there. I know Al wouldn't agree with some of what I say, but I'd say he was 'Old School". There's nowt wrong wi' it. Pity there isn't more of it.
If there is something called 'New School' folk music, I would include Mumford and Sons (as somebody has already mentioned them). For years I've been growling about the modern use of terms like 'R&B" and "Soul", to describe music which seems to have bugger all to do with the music of - for example - B B King or Wilson Pickett. And 'Rock 'n' Roll' has long since ceased to mean anything. The word 'Folk' seems to be being used in the same way. We are being taken over by the Entertainment Industry. They have never known what folk music was. Their definition was always "with drums, it's Pop; without drums, it's Folk". To them it's just a label.
Discuss. I'm off before the war starts.
John Kelly. Old School Folk Singer.

Subject: RE: Being an old folksinger - don't like it
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 02:57 PM

"I think maybe its the finger picking of the guitar - none of 'em do that much. Sunjay Brain sticks out like a sore thumb."

Ewan McLennan, Jason Steel, Michael Rossitter, Alasdair Roberts, Jack Day, Nancy Wallace, Ewan D Rogers, David Broad, Ben Folke Thomas, Olivia Chaney, George Frakes... and that's just off the top of my head. In fact I'd say fingerpicking is the norm among young folk guitarists I see

Subject: RE: Being an old folksinger - don't like it
From: GUEST,Mark Addison
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 02:16 PM

We went to the same old BGS school Al. Realised the other day that I'm older than the new Archbishop of Canterbury! That should never be.

Subject: RE: Being an old folksinger - don't like it
From: GUEST,crazy little woman
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 11:25 AM

I think I saw a new-school folk band on YouTube. There were half a dozen young people in tight clothes and freaky hair-dos, there were red and blue stagelights, and fake fog was drifting about. The instruments were traditional and the style was hackneyed. (guitars went blangety-blangety throughout.) In other words, it was an imitation of a rock band.

The ratio of males to females was about 5 to 1. (Females will be tolerated better if they can play fiddle, the hardest instrument.)

'Old style' would be a man (occasionally a woman) in plaid shirt with a guitar, talking to you for a bit and then singing a song. Chances are good you can even understand the lyrics.

Big Al, i don't think you have to worry about being called old style.

Subject: RE: Being an old folksinger - don't like it
From: MikeL2
Date: 09 Nov 12 - 02:14 PM

hi Al and gang

Don't know about " old folksinger" but many ( many) moons ago I appeared on a charity show in my home town and was introduced as a "young whippersnapper who sings and plays this new stuff called rock & Roll". !!!

Guess I am now an old whippersnapper eh??

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: Being an old folksinger - don't like it
From: GUEST,Peter
Date: 09 Nov 12 - 12:57 PM

I am with leenia on this and am suprised how many people aren't familiar with the expression.

"New school"? - most of what gets booked by The Nest Collective