BS: does one have to go to police station

Subject: BS: does one have to go to police station
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 02:42 AM

One often comes across, in fact and fiction [eg in tv cop shows] people being 'taken in for questioning'.

I have often wondered whether the police can compel anyone who is not under arrest to attend a police station. The following solicitor's online advice

"If the police suspect you of having been involved in a criminal offence they can arrest you or request you voluntarily attend a police station in order to be formally interviewed on tape and under caution"

suggests that attendance is voluntary, as is the answering of any question.

But what would happen if one refused to attend? ~ esp if the police did not think they had sufficient grounds to arrest?

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: does one have to go to police station
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 04:46 AM

They'd find some

Subject: RE: BS: does one have to go to police station
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 05:53 AM

Get into that situation and (as Lenny Bruce used to put it) they're shaving your leg already.

The secret is to live a blameless life, and shun the sinful ways of the flesh.

Subject: RE: BS: does one have to go to police station
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 06:03 AM

Interesting question Michael. I don't know what one's position would be, but I should think it would arouse suspicion and (as John says)they would step up the level of attention and compel one to come to the Police Station. I'd be most interested if anyone here finds out definitely what one's rights are!

Subject: RE: BS: does one have to go to police station
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 06:17 AM

In the US, as is usual for almost anything dealing with laws, there are some variations for each individual state, but forcing you to go somewhere "without cause" would generally violate at least three clauses of the US Constitution, and most State Constitutions replicate the principles there.

Usually you could "decline," or perhaps request that you be allowed to come in later at a more convenient time; but the police could possibly appear later with a warrant issued by a Court (one with sufficient authority) ordering you to appear, and/or that you be taken into custody pending an appearance in court. With a sufficient court order (warrant), the police might be able to hold you (as a material witness?) without technically placing you under arrest.

Your response would need to fit the situation and the persons (police?) involved, and usually reasonable cooperation is best. While most "big city" police should know the rules better than you, and should be expected to observe them, some "small-town cops" may be ill-informed and more akin to street thugs than to law enforcement officers (fairly rare?), so you'd want to do what allows the best chance for survival with minimal harm to yourself.

John

Subject: RE: BS: does one have to go to police station
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 06:45 AM

Being arrested, in the UK anyway,is not the same as being charged with an offence. You are arrested as a way of compelling you to attend for questioning, not necessarily because there are reasons to think you are guilty of an offence.

It is common for people to be released without being charged, if there isn't sufficient evidence to put before a court.

Subject: RE: BS: does one have to go to police station
From: GUEST,999
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 06:55 AM

Go to the station, make your one phone call and await your lawyer. Until your legal representation arrives, stay mute. That is, "My name is _______ and I want a lawyer." PERIOD. Not one word more. No nods, no dirty looks, no nothin', and keep your hands to yourself.

Laws differ from country to country. Many have what are loosely called Miranda rights or something similar. Use the right to remain silent, because anything you say can and will be used against you. imo.

Subject: RE: BS: does one have to go to police station
From: GUEST,Chubby McDogger
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 07:11 AM

"does one have to go to police station"

A long internet list of Tory Party officials will be pondering this very same question at this very moment ?

Subject: RE: BS: does one have to go to police station
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 07:34 AM

The UK has a dirty twist - "if you fail to mention when questioned something that you later rely on in court it may harm your defence".

Subject: RE: BS: does one have to go to police station
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 11:07 AM

Mind, putting that into the formal warning is just saying something that had always been the unstated truth.

Subject: RE: BS: does one have to go to police station
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 11:36 AM

A few years ago there was a lot of talk in the media about "racial profiling." The talk has died down now, in the sense that the media have become bored with it, because nobody has anything new to say, but I doubt the situation has improved.

Anyway, I remember a TV program in which several young black men were interviewed about their experiences with the police. It was very enlightening to me, a middle-class, post-middle-aged white person, who has had very few encounters with police and no problematic ones.

They described several instances of being stopped and questioned by police for nothing more than "driving while black." Apparently the police can and do stop and question people for practically no reason, or at least they think they can, and they almost always get away with it. Police routinely ask questions like, "Where are you going? Where did you just come from? Why are you out this late at night? Have you been drinking/using drugs? Who owns this car? Let me see your license." If you refuse to answer, your refusal is interpreted as "acting suspicious" and will lead to even more intense questioning, scrutiny, and delay.

One young man described an instance in which he demanded that the police tell him why they had stopped him. The reply was, "Don't worry; we'll find something." They examined his car closely. Finally they wrote him a ticket for having an air freshener hanging from his rear-view mirror. In Minnesota, it is illegal to have anything hanging from your rear-view mirror. How many people knew that?

There are lots of laws on the books that are very rarely enforced and the police like it that way because it gives them an extreme amount of discretion. The police would love it if there was a law against breathing, because it would give them a perfect excuse to stop and possibly arrest anyone anytime.

There are also catchall offenses like "disorderly conduct." I once asked the head of security at the university where I worked to tell me the definition of "disorderly conduct." (She was a former police officer, and, if I remember correctly, had a master's degree in law enforcement.) She couldn't do it. She said, "I'd have to look that up." Even if she had looked it up, she probably would have had trouble paraphrasing or summarizing what she had found. I am not surprised that the Wikipedia article says "This article needs additional citations …. to reliable sources."

Subject: RE: BS: does one have to go to police station
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 11:54 AM

Presumably if you decline to cooperate they call that "obstruction" and nick you any way! Mind you, soon there won't be any police stations left to take you to. "Just come alonga me, young feller-me-lad, and I'll take you to the police information desk in Tesco staffed by a civilian volunteer. You may be detained in the deli aisle."

RtS

Subject: RE: BS: does one have to go to police station
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 01:27 PM

soon there won't be any police stations left to take you to
There will be just the one for the police authority. 40 miles from home and they will kick you out at 3am to make your own way back.

Subject: RE: BS: does one have to go to police station
From: ragdall
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 05:02 AM

Or you might be arrested for "causing a disturbance" as this boy was in Burnaby, BC, (Greater Vancouver)?
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2012/10/25/bc-teen-photographer-arrest.html

rags

Subject: RE: BS: does one have to go to police station
From: meself
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 10:31 AM

In Canadian law, as I understand it, you are not required to answer any questions - not even to give your name - and certainly not required to go anywhere, unless you are "under arrest", and you have the right to be told what you are under arrest for, i.e., what the charge is.

Of course, that's just the law - as a callow youth, I once insisted on the above, and was slapped down and thrown around for my troubles. Wasn't taken downtown, though.

Subject: RE: BS: does one have to go to police station
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 10:37 AM

If they wanted you down the nick, I wouldn't rate your chances much of not going, would you?

Subject: RE: BS: does one have to go to police station
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 10:47 AM

In most all the states they can hold you up to 24 hrs for questioning if you refuse.   You don't have to answer anything and can lawyer up at any time but yes they can make you come in

Subject: RE: BS: does one have to go to police station
From: CET
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 03:11 PM

"Subject: RE: BS: does one have to go to police station
From: McGrath of Harlow - PM
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 11:07 AM

Mind, putting that into the formal warning is just saying something that had always been the unstated truth."

I would like to get Richard's take on that assertion as far as Britain is concerned, but that is most certainly untrue in Canada. No prosecutor would be allowed to make such a suggestion in cross-examination, and if a judge said so in his instructions to the jury, any conviction would likely be reversed on appeal.

In Canada the police cannot force you to come in for questioning. Their options if you refuse are to let you go on your way, or to arrest you. Of course they can be quite good at persuading you, but if they bring you in against your will without reasonable and probable grounds to believe you have committed a crime it's unlikely that anything you say would be admitted into evidence.

Subject: RE: BS: does one have to go to police station
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 03:37 PM

'does one have to go to police station'


Only if you have to pee REAL bad, or if they arrest you. If the want to question you, they might just come to your house. Letting them in may be optional, unless they have a warrant..which they can get pretty easy. HOWEVER, 999's advice is good....keeping in mind, that when you ask for a lawyer to be present(which you should), the flags go up for the cops, figuring that you feel threatened(because you might have been involved in whatever they're bugging you about).
Myself, I'm pretty co-operative..which fortunately hasn't have to have been much need.
Keep your act together, play music..keep away from jerks who attract the law toward them..obey as many laws as you can keep track of, and they should leave you alone.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: does one have to go to police station
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 04:19 PM

Shane has been struggling with these issues for years...

He attracts cops like fresh shit attracts flies.

Subject: RE: BS: does one have to go to police station
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 04:30 PM

He should have Chongo represent him...there's no monkeying around him, on his home turf!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: does one have to go to police station
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Nov 12 - 02:02 PM

" No prosecutor would be allowed to make such a suggestion in cross-examination, and if a judge said so in his instructions to the jury, any conviction would likely be reversed on appeal.

Sure - but it'd be the first thing you'd talk about in the juryroom, and they can't even ask what you talked about in the juryroom. That's what I meant by "unstated truth".

Subject: RE: BS: does one have to go to police station
From: CET
Date: 14 Nov 12 - 08:56 PM

The jury might talk about it, but probably only if the prosecutor made a point of asking the accused why he didn't tell the nice police officer about his defence when he was being interrogated. This just doesn't happen in Canada very often and if it did the prosecutor would be slapped down hard. The fact is that is virtually never in your interest to talk to the police, even if you are innocent and have a story to tell. I don't mean that all cops are bad people but when they say the magic words "you are not obliged to say anything" they are no longer your friends.