BS: Good Used Car?

Subject: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Janie
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 02:45 PM

Looks like I might be in the market for another car. Son wrecked our 2000 Taurus last night. Busted radiator, the hood is pretty messed up, and the driver side headlight is busted out. No collision insurance. I'll wait for estimates, but given the age of the car and the repair bills I have been paying on it every few months, it is likely it will make sense to get another car rather than have it fixed.

I drive a 1997 Subaru Legacy Outback. 200,000 plus miles but I had to have a used engine put in it at 136,000 so it could run pretty good for a good long time.   

If I buy another car for my son to drive I'll consider spending $3000 - $5000. If I decide to give him the Subaru and buy a car for me, I'll consider $4000 - $8000.

I easily put 2000 miles per month on a vehicle. Need at least 25 mph average highway mph and think I can find that in an older car. Wouldn't mind better. Also need something with good dependability ratings and an average life expectancy of at least 225,000 miles since it is likely anything in my price range will already have 100,000 miles on it. If I get it for me, comfort and fit matters. My degenerative spine and arthritic joints don't handle vibrating steering wheels, bad driver seats and feeling every bump in the road so very well anymore. So subcompact is out, at least if the car is for me.

I also don't think I want another Subaru, at least not for me. I can manage my Subaru's "ride" OK, but the seat is increasingly killing me. Hard and makes my butt hurt, even with a gel cushion, and is also killing my lower back and legs due to lack of lumbar support. Sis has a 2010 Outback station wagon and Mom has a 2012 Subaru Legacy sedan. The seats in them don't fit me well either, and my sister's only complaint about her vehicle is the seat isn't comfortable. I would consider a Subaru for my son.

So guys and gals, what do you recommend I look at?

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 02:58 PM

Well I drive a Subaru Legacy Sports tourer, and I find it real comfortable. The Outback et al, are x country/semi off road vehicles. So they have stiffer springing. Just a thought. The other thought is this. Fit smaller rim tyres then you get a smoother ride. Low profile tyres are hard on the spine.

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 03:05 PM

Chevy Astro vans are pretty good. Decent mileage. Last a good while. Dependable. Plenty of cargo space. I had one. Sold it to the housemate. She's still driving it.
=(:-( ))

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: bobad
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 03:10 PM

Can't recommend a Toyota more highly. I have a 2000 Corolla with 275,000 km on it. It is the most reliable vehicle I have ever owned.

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: pdq
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 03:21 PM

A Toyota will run forever, but get the 4-cyl 5-spd if you can handle a std transmission.

A real sleeper is Mercedes. Examples from the 80s or 90 have tons of life left and are sometimes half of the cost of a Toyota or more sought-after make. Good automatic trans, unlike Volvo.

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 03:22 PM

Yup, Toyotas are good too.

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: catspaw49
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 04:42 PM

While there are some wonderful Mercedes and BMWs available for lower bucks with high mileage, stay away from them. They will start to nickel and dime you to death but neither brand has any nickel or dime parts and what might cost just a bit on your aging Toyota or Honda will bankrupt you on the BMW or Mercedes.


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Janie
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 04:56 PM

Thinking hard about the Toyotas. If I were younger I would definitely consider a Corolla, and am not completely closed to the idea. Haven't driven one but have ridden in them. Not very comfortable, but the mph and dependability ratings are great. I have driven my aunt's older but low mileage Avalon a lot on long trips to WV where I chauffeured. Very nice car. Handled well and gentle on the bones and joints. Not sure about the gas mileage.   Also, I don't have a garage and the cars get parked under oak trees. Not only tree sap, but all the little dings that end up on the windshield from falling acorns. It is silly of me, but a dinged up windshield on a lesser car doesn't seem as big a shame as on a more luxurious model. There are 3 older Avalon's on Craig's List right now that are in my price range, however.

Why do you recommend the 4-cyl 5-spd, pdq? Gas mileage? Durability? something else?

My ex inherited an early 90's Mercedes from his Dad, who drove "nothing but" for 40 years. Great car, but when work or maintenance does need done, very expensive compared to more common vehicles.

John, what year is your Subaru?

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 04:56 PM

Vans like the Astro come out better in an accident. You ride higher up too. Good visibility.
=(:-( ))

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Janie
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 04:58 PM

Didn't see your post before I posted, 'Spaw (had typed it then walked away without submitting, but that is kinda my thoughts. I'm thinking the same might be true for a Volvo?

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 05:06 PM

2007

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: pdq
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 05:11 PM

I feel that Volvos and Beamers are cult items. If you love them, you love 'em. Iffy automatic trannies.

The Astro van with a 4.3L V-6 is solid but ugly.

There sure is a temptation to get a $40,000 Mercedes for $1300. Just broken in and they drive so nice.

{OK, I got a 1977 Toyota mini-truck that ain't quite big enough for a 6-footer like me, but it's practical}

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Janie
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 05:11 PM

Thanks, Henry, but I have no use for a van.

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 05:19 PM

9 series Volvo (2.3 litre HPT preferably) with the manual M90 gearbox. The M90 is very very tough. The biggest problem with the 7 and 9 series auto boxes are shade tree mechanics. The engine MUST NOT be revved with the car in one or the other of "park" or "neutral - I forget which, I hate autoboxes - and apparently every other car on the planet does not object. So the shade tree mechanic while trying to sort something on the engine destroys the gearbox. Volvo specialists should know better (but they sometimes do not, a bit like tensioning the balancer belt on the B234F Volvo twin cam engine).

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Janie
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 06:10 PM

One of my hesitancies about a Volvo is my impression that it takes a Volvo specialist to work on them (30 miles away),. Another is an ipression that costs of repairs and parts are higher than for more common vehicles. Are those impressions accurate?

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 06:29 PM

Toyota Camry...

Corolla's are a okay but real light and tinty...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Janie
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 08:11 PM

Hmmm. There are a lot of Camry's on Craig's List right now. Year model and mileage vary greatly. I don't think I have ever driven or ridden in a Camry. Are some years considered better or worse than others?

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: pdq
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 08:31 PM

The Toyota Avalon seems to be a front-wheel drive vehicle with automatic and a relatively large V-6. Three strikes territory in my book.

[OK, 2 1/2 strikes...automatics are OK with RWD, as long as the company knows how to make an auto...}

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 08:40 PM

The Camry will get better gas mileage than the Avalon... You can buy an early 2000s model with a 2.4 four cyl, engine that will get you 25 mpg all around and 30+ on the road...

Great engine... Great car...

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: ragdall
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 09:06 PM

I drive a 2008 Vibe, which is a made-in-the-USA Toyota Matrix. I love it! I have Degenerative Disc Disease and knees that are ready to be replaced. I find the seats very comfortable and a good fit.   The ride is a little hard, I think that new shocks might change that. (I'm saving up to get some.)

rags

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Janie
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 09:24 PM

Great feedback, Folks. I know nothing about cars other than within my budget 10 years old has always been "late model." Keep it coming. Very helpful.

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 09:31 PM

Janie,

Yeah, even though the first ha;lf of my working life was in
"save-the-world" jobs (lol), the second part of my working life was as owner of a used car/independent car rental company...

I rented out Toyotas because they were dependable and I sold Toyotas because it made for happy customers whose cars lasted...

The Toyota 2.4 engine is unreal... Any Toyota with it will run forever...

I have a 2000 Toyota truck with one... I expect it to be going strong in 10, 20 years...

Last on this from me...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 02:36 AM

Yes, it's fair to say that the 7/9 Volvos have their little eccentricities.

Top of the list would be the fuel pump relay. If yours is one of the "white relay" cars, carry a spare. It can be changed in 5 minutes by removing the ashtray and you can get one of ebay for peanuts.   If the in-tank fuel pump fails it is a pain to change. Hall sensor failure and radio suppression relay (which is nothing to do with radio suppression) failures can be baffling to those who do not know about them.

The twin cams demand religious belt changes - the belts do not often snap but it is an interference engine so if the belt does snap you have 16 valves to replace and maybe worse. When you do change them, leave the balance shaft belts off. A little more vibration, a touch less rotational inertia.

Aim to get a car that has recently had the clutch proven to be replaced. And make sure it was a good clutch, a Volvo genuine, a Sachs or an LUK - NOT a Fleetway. Clutches inevitably eventually wear out but changing them involves dropping the gearbox at considerable expense.

If there is ANY clutch judder - don't buy that car. It's most probably a failing dual mass flywheel which is expensive, and not available at all for the straight sixes.

Avoid the straight sixes anyway.

You want a car with the underbonnet OBD. The very latest ones had an OBD socket inside the central console but it is NOT standard OBDII and will just puzzle most mechanics. The underbonnet OBD will tell you everything you need to know in most cases.

The front ABS sensors are pricey, and there is a funny plug on the rear axle that connects the one in the diff (which also operates the speedo).

You should be able to get a '94 car (I prefer the estates) with all the right bits and about 100,000 miles for well under $1,000.

There is a huge body of knowledge about them on the Volvo Owners Club forum and on turbobricks.

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Bettynh
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 09:09 AM

Whatever you do, take the car you pick to an independent mechanic before you commit. I loved my little '94 Nissan pickup, but my son the mechanic told me that it was in serious danger of breaking in half from a rusted frame. The engine was probably good for another 10 years or so. When I bought my current vehicle (another truck, but that's irrelevant here) I took it to him first, and he was able to point out several fixable problems that became arguing points to halve the price.

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Long Firm Freddie
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 09:39 AM

You could always look at a Yamaha Tri-Moto.

(Bad language alert...)

LFF

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Gurney
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 02:22 PM

I have two Toyotas, a Spacio, which is Corolla 1.6 base with extra room, and a Camry 3litreV6. The Spacio is great for parking, but the Camry is great for journeys, it thinks that it is a limousine.
Both middle-mileage cars, very little trouble with either. Neither very powerful for their capacity. Excellent seats in both.

The only quibble is that the V6 motor is a bugger to change the spark-plugs on, a garage job for most people. You only do it about twice in the car's life, though.

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Janie
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 08:34 PM

Been on the Consumer Reports website. They don't review or rate vehicles more than 10 years old, but 10 years or older are going to be more in line with my budget. What I quoted previously as my high end is very much my high end. If it doesn't make sense to fix the Taurus we have no choice but to get another car, but I really need to keep the cost as low as is possible. They cite model years as being particularly good or particularly bad. Toyotas generally look good regardless, but wondering about models between 11 and 15 years old. Also wondering about Hyundai Sonatas. I understand the reliability of Hyundai cars in the past several years is quite good, but not sure about old models. Also wondering about Ford Fusions. Also about late '90's models of Toyotas and Hondas with close to 200,000 miles on them. The Corollas and Civics are smaller than is comfortable, but a review of finances suggests I need to consider them anyway, and pre 2000 models of both are closer to what I can afford without breaking the bank.

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 08:46 PM

After a Taurus, a Civic or Corolla would be like Flintstone cars, Janie...

Camry is still my choice... Heck, even if you had to go back to late 90s you should be able to find something in the 125K mile range for cheap...

Fusion??? Maybe...

Accords??? Maybe, part 2...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: frogprince
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 09:17 PM

We had two Camrys, and would still have the first save for a run of bad luck, both of them totalled in a couple of years time. Needed a new car just when the question of runaway acceleration in Toyotas was in the air, and bough a Fusion. No real regrets at all about either the Camry or Fusion.
Had a Hundai rental for a few days. Sonata? Which ever is virtually identical in dimensions to the Camry, anyhow. I was about to conclude that it seemed quite good for the price, when we took it out for a few highway miles. Every tar strip came through as a sharp little kick; I didn't want to think about what a few more miles would have done to my back. I've had at least three little econobox cars that rode better than that.

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Ed T
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 09:25 AM

I find "Lemon Ade" used car guide for used cars quite relieble (not sure if it is available in your area, or you can get back copies).

Lemon ade

My recommendation would be a Toyota Camry. If you want a car that will last, gives good gas mileage and a good drive, they are "the best of the pack". You may have to pay a bit more, but you will save it on the long run (regular repair bills are amost nill). All years are good. (They good a bit too large in 2007, but, you seem to be looking for an earlier one anyway). If you can find one about 125-150 miles, IMO, you will have years of trouble free driving (if it wasn't abused).


I would not recommend a used Hyundai before 2006, when quality improved significantly-close to Toyota.

Toyota Corolla - They are good on gas and last forever if you rust proof them. The ride is bumpy, as the wheelbase is shorter. But, not as bumpy as a Honda Civic. Pre 2002 models are prone to oil burning, that does not seem to bother engine life. Some say the cars seem to "last forever" and prices remain high.

Toyota Matrix- Drivetrain is a Corolla. There has been many transmission issues with the manual transmissions that is costly to fix. The 4 wheel drive version is relatively hard on gas. The drive and visibility is good and they are Toyotas, so, they should last.

Toyota Camry. Avoid the 6 Cylendar vehicles, as they are hard on gas. The 4 Cyl. vehicle has plenty of power. They last forever, and have a good ride, if you rust proof them. The 2 door Camry,the Solara, has a real good ride-much like a Lexus, and can run a bit cheaper (as they are not too popular). However, the doors are big and hard to enter and exit the back seat (if that matters). It is hard to find a 4 cyl Solara (especially beyond 2004)-but they are a jewel if you can find one. The Avalon would be loaded, and be a good car- but the gas consumption would be on the higher side (I suspect 25 mpg or less).

Subaru- the early 2.4 engines are prone to blown head gasgets. As the vehicles age, the gas tanks leak. Because of where they are placed, it takes about 15 to 20 hours labour to replace a gas tank (and about $2,000). Some models have lumbar support on the driver side and the drive is better in older models if you replace the struts. (Outside those issues, the vehicles last a very long time).

IMO, Hondas are prone to rust as they age and the drive tends to be bumpy and the steering very sensitive.

Fords are the best of the big three North Americam, but mintainance is expensive as they age. I would avoid GMs, as they only recently fixed the many flaws (for example automatic transmissions). I have found Crysler vehicles lower quality and do not last. Jeep models are especially hard on gas.


Mazda's are OK, but tend to be harder on gas.THe quality is less than Toyota and Honda.

IMO,European produced cars (VW, BMW, Cooper, Volvo, Mercedes) are expensive to repair as they age and have a higher annual maintainance than Japanese.

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 09:31 AM

Yes, avoid the V-6 Camrys... The 2.4 four banger is more reliable and more economic...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: pdq
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 11:05 AM

Toyota V6s have problems with blowing head gaskets.

They also get suprisingly poor gas milage.

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 11:13 AM

BTW, a 2000 model with good miles (under 100K) should run between $5,000 and $6,000...

No matter what you pick, Janie, do a Carfax search and have it looked over by a real mechanic, not Sammy Shadetree who lives up the street...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Ed T
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 11:39 AM

I suspect you could get a 2002-2004 Toyota Camry, with good miles on it, for between $6 to $7,000 on a private sale. The lower the miles, the higher the price (regardless of the year).

I recently picked up a loaded 2007 4 cyl. Hyunda Sonata, with 50,000 kilometers (about 30,000 miles) for $7,500 in a private estate sale - which, IMO, was a really good price. I was actually looking for a low mileage Camry-but could not resist the low kms on the newer model Hyundai. While the "Lemon Ade" guide rates them as "recommended", time will tell.

I don't know much about used Nissans. However, someone recently advised me that some models/years have had premature rusting problems?

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Gurney
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 03:14 PM

Bobert is right about small cars seeming crude after bigger ones, but you can get tyres/tires that give the same impression, nowadays.
I replaced the Camry's fronts, then moved the new tyres to the rear in an attempt to leave some of the noise behind. More expensive tyres at the front slightly improved the situation.

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Ed T
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 03:40 PM

Personally, I find highway noise in many cars annoying. One would expect that wind tunnel designs,robots improving quality control would improve the in-cabin wind noise levels. But, it is not always the case. Honda Civics, for example, are very noisy - you hear the road (tire) and wind noise, even in the current models.

Many North American cars have good sound proofing insulation to keep out road noise. Camry's are mostly OK (depending on the year) in this area.

I owned a 2002 Honda Civic, and could only cut the excessive road noise down marginally using less gressive tire threds. There are after-market sound insulation products. But, they are costly and a hastle to install.

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Janie
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 10:51 PM

Good help, folks. Ed T., that first post you made is particularly helpful.   (I had to put a used engine in my '97 Subaru because of a blown head gasket a year after I bought it.)

I've driven a few late model Honda Civics as rentals and they are noisy and rattle a lot. Haven't driven an Accord. Have ridden in a Corolla. Would not be my preferred vehicle, and it seems I could get a Camry for not much more. My son would be fine with a 4 door Corolla or Civic.

Looks like it is definitely gonna be another car for either my son or me. I've done nearly all my business with the same mechanic for 18 years. I trust his opinion, especially since he doesn't give it unless asked. He doesn't think I should spend more than $1500 to fix the Taurus. The radiator, which he would do, will probably run $650-$750. Can't be done unless bodywork is done first because the radiator brackets are busted. Looking at the front end bodywork that would need done, he thinks it unlikely the total repair could come in under $1500, even referring me to someone with a side business where the bodywork would be as much as half less expensive than at a bodyshop.

So now it comes down to deciding whether to pay a bit more and get a car for me, passing the Subaru on to my son, or paying a bit less and getting a car for him. He will participate in the cost over time, but I am definitely the financier and am going to have to borrow money either way.

Just last week put a new catalytic converter on the Subaru. The engine has leaked oil from around the oil pan since the used engine was put in 75,000 miles ago, but as long as I keep oil in it it seems to run fine.   (The guy who put in the used engine should have pulled it again and fixed it while it was under the 6 month warranty, but the blown engine and the replacement happened 6 hours from home and I wasn't in the position to fight with him.) The Subaru essentially runs fine. Don't know about stuff like the transmmission. Have had some issues with the AC (clutch freezing) and is likely that will have to be fixed next summer. Whatever the baffle system is that switches whether the air/heat blows to the floor, the dash vents or both sticks in one position or another often. The CD player is dead. The seats are leather and in good shape. The body, in spite of me never having waxed the car in 4 years, is rust free. Am I right in thinking that while there are repair bills in its future, it is likely to be a vehicle a teenager/young adult could consider a fairly dependable ride for another 50,000 to 75,000 miles? Any car not under warranty is going to have repair costs. I'd rather shell out $1000 - $1500 dollars a year for incremental repairs I can afford to pay for one at a time, than go into more debt for car payments and still have a likely potential for $1000-$1500 repair bills per year, in addition to a car payment.

Does that make sense to anyone?

I was already starting to think about buying another car for one of us, just not sure which one of us. The accident has speeded up the need to reach a decision. It is bad timing to have to be dealing with this now instead of 6 months from now, but such is life. Between our two cars, I spent just over $900 three weeks ago. One of his brake cylinders had to be replaced, and the next week, I had to replace the catalytic converter on the Subaru. In both instances went ahead and had some maintenance and other minor repairs done while the vehicles were at the mechanic's for the "presenting problem."

And what do I do with the Taurus if I'm not gonna fix it? Can I sell it "as is" for a $1000 bucks? To whom? And how do you go about that?

Long winded, I know. Thinking about options. A used Ford is going to cost less, but won't last as long. My 2 cars prior to the Subaru were a Taurus and then a Sable. Both blessed hand-me-downs from my parents. (Son's Taurus was a hand-me-down from my nephew. Three free cars in a row. Talk about blessings!) Seems to me the maximum useful life of the Taurus/Sables is 175,000-200,000 miles. Not sure about other Fords. (Had an Escort that died at 135,000, but that probably had to do with the fact that we used it to tow a sailboat fairly often (sheepish grin.)

My philosophy with cars is by 'em used, keep the oil changed, don't take time or care to keep them looking shiny, and drive them until the wheels fall off. In my southern USA climate, salt and rust are not generally an issue.

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Janie
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 11:09 PM

And another question? Should I consider shopping dealers, or stick with private owners? My mechanic has a very small side business of selling cars he buys at auctions and then brings up to par, as well as a few cars he buys from private individuals, but it is a very small side business for him. I've never seen him have more than 4 or 5 vehicles offered at a time, and right now the only thing he has is a Tahoe. (He likes Hondas, btw, as it seems, so do many mechanics.) Speaks highly of the Camry. I'm guessing if I put him on the hunt he will find a good car, it will be a fair deal, but not a "find."
He is willing to shop for me, but it wouldn't be quick, and I need quick. Plus, would probably cost me more, though it might be worth it to pay a bit extra to buy a car he has gone over, replaced timing belts, etc, and stands behind in terms of his reputation.

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Bugsy
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 03:30 AM

I confess that I didn't read all the previous posts so it may have been said already. I bought a 2001 Nissan Maxima 5 years ago for $AUS9,500. It's worth about $AUS3-4000 now. It's cost me around $1500 over the 5 years for service and repairs and still runs like a dream. Everyone who drives it is impressed. I'd buy one again in a heaartbeat.

Good luck with the search and if you haven't already bought, let us know what you got.

Cheers

Bugsy

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Bugsy
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 03:35 AM

Oh by the way Janie, my Maxima had 95,000 kms on the clock when I bought it. I figured that at it's age it must have been long distance driving. It's made no difference to the performance or reliablility of the car.

Cheers

Bugsy

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 07:58 AM

If you can fix the Taurus for $1500, that beats the heck outta $5000, Janie... The radiator is held in place by the "core support" which has a number of other duties, including the hood latch, various filters & cannisters related to emissions, the grill, the headlight assembly, cooling fans etc., etc... If the "core support" is too badly bent then getting stuff mounted correctly is impossible... Have your mechanic carefully inspect it before diving into fixing Mr. T...

BTW, an after-market radiator for Mr. T shouldn't cost over $200... They are a lot cheaper than people think... Google "Radiator Warehouse" and price one...

Most of Mr.T's body parts and light assemblies can be found at junk yards or even on the internet... Heck, you might find an entire parts car with a blown engine or trans for $200-$300... If you went that direction then ya'll might be able to fix it yourself for cheap... It's all nuts and bolts with a few screws...

But the condition of the "core support" is the driving force in making your decision...

Call me if ya' need to... I'm a gear-head from way back...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 08:58 AM

a USED mAZDA 6 IS RANKED SAFEST,

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 09:37 AM

That's because you can't get hurt in a car that doesn't run, Donuel...

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: SINSULL
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 10:37 AM

No one hurt, Janie?
I love my Hyundai bought used with only 13000 miles on it. It is not comfortable for long drives which is why I suspect the owner traded it in. Three years later I have put nothing but basic maintenance into it.
Mary

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Ed T
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 10:45 AM

""Should I consider shopping dealers, or stick with private owners?""

I would do both. If you have a reliable mechanic and he finds a car that you want over the lobnger term, it is a plus. But, one may also appear from a private source that your mechanic could check out and advise you on the condition.

Don't know enough about older Fords, nor the one you have to help. to advise you. But, I suspect that they cost much more to keep on the road than your Subaru.

As to the Subaru,

They last for a long time (and rust is not a big issue, as the metal is thick). Parts eventually wear out on all cars, but less so in these vehicles. Having a trusted mechanic is a plus. Sometimnes you can find folks who specializes in scraping Subaru's and selling off the parts quite cheap when you need 'em.

BTW, gas tanks often rust from the inside, not the outside, because of water and bacteria that accumulates on the bottom. (Gas additives, like Seafoam gas additive may help extend the tank life?).

Also, keep an eye on the brake lines - that tend to rust near the back where they go up to the top of the trunk.

With catalytic converters, they are generally stainless steel. Quite often the flanges rust out (as the stainless steel content is less). The flanges can can be weld repaired rather than replace the converter. But, most mechanics want to replace them,(it is easier and more profitable to replace than repair, and they also profit some from the scrap platinum inside).

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: MikeL2
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 11:21 AM

hi

<" Can't recommend a Toyota more highly. I have a 2000 Corolla with 275,000 km on it. It is the most reliable vehicle I have ever owned. ">

Can't agree more with Bobad, we are on our fourth Toyota and will probably buy another when we replace this one.

Most economical cars I have had. They never cost anything to run.

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Janie
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 07:57 PM

It was the labor on the radiator that was going to drive the cost up, Bobert.

Well, the Taurus is definitely toast. Yesterday Steve (my mechanic) gave me a quick and dirty rundown based on what he could see through the grill, looking under the car, and through the big gap where the hood was crumpled up. Today he finally had time to pry the hood up.

The core support is badly damaged and broken. The ac condenser is cracked. There is a hole in the radiator. Everything got shoved back toward the passenger compartment and some sort of electrical box at the back of the engine compartment is cracked and when he turned the ignition on there is a hot electrical smell and smoke. All he could say is "some kind of electrical problem" from the look he gave it, and I had already told him just to take a quick look. If we had collision on it, it would be totaled. I was already aware that it was approaching the end of it's useful life. It is headed to the salvage yard as soon as Son can get over to Steve's to clean it out.

Son wasn't hurt, Mary. Unfortunately, I think the lady he rear-ended is probably in for some back, neck or shoulder problems. When I learn that everything got shoved back a bit in the Taurus to the point that electrical box was cracked, I am not so sure I want him in something as small as a Corolla or Civic.

I guess I also don't want to fixate on a Toyota or Honda given their resale values are so high. I need to remind myself that the Subaru I bought for $4500 with 96,000 miles on it blew the engine 14 months later and cost me an additional $2000.

On the other hand, Steve is driving a Honda with 370,000 miles on it, original engine and original transmission. Of course, he is a mechanic, and a bit obsessive/compulsive.

Bobert, look for a pm asking for a bit of assistance.

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Ed T
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 08:24 PM

If rust is not an issue where you live, an older Honda civic may be a good choice for a young guy (many young folks like 'em better than corollas). I suspect they are a bit cheaper than Corollas and easy to get used parts for-as there are plenty around.

One flaw that I am aware of on many civics is the automatic transmission, - changing the transmission fluid regularily extends the life. This problem is limited to automatics. Gas mileage is not quite as good as the Corollas, but it is decent for the vehicle size.

Doing a google search under Honda civic (with the year range)+chat should give some useful information. Another option is the vehicle nakme +sucks-for disgruntled folks.

Oddly, I increased the gas mileage significantly with the 1998 Subaru Legacy I used to owned by changing the knock sensor, and it also purred like a kitten after. A friend of mine, who knows those cars indicated the 1999 model year gave amazing fuel mileage - claiming the company accomplished this with some refinements that year on the same engine- the 2.2 Boxer.


BTW, my son rear-ended a car the first month he got his licence. He totalled my prized, low mileage and pampered, Toyota Celica and caused 30K damage to a Lexus and Volvo involved. His insurance went skyward for a few years. The deployed air bags knocked him out for a few minutes. But, luckily no human injuries followed.

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Elmore
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 08:44 PM

I love my 1995 polo green Geo Prizm. It's starting to look it's age, but then, so am I.

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Ed T
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 09:16 PM

IK forgot the Prizm - An early Toyota GM (joint) project if I recall correctly.

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 09:40 PM

Geo Prizm is the same exact car as a Toyota Corolla...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Gurney
Date: 14 Nov 12 - 12:44 AM

One of the problems (here) with the older Honda is that they seem to be easier than most makes to steal. I understand that newer ones are harder to steal than most, Honda reacted.

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 14 Nov 12 - 06:52 PM

You know, Janie, I lived with used cars for many expensive years. When the current one was iffy at 4 pm on a Friday and I had to drive from Central Ontario to southern PA on Sunday, I took a walk through the local Chev lot. My wonderful mechanic had "fixed it" to get me to PA but I was getting tired of this. Shoot! I did not think anyone would be at the dealership at 6 pm on Friday but...If I can finance it OK.

I could and did - and realized I had been spending more on repairs than I now spent on car payments.

My current car is a 7 year old Scion XA, bought new and recommended by my engineer/car nut son (49). I love it and have had only routine maintenance for 7 years. Hope it lasts forever - my life time!

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: frogprince
Date: 14 Nov 12 - 11:12 PM

Hey, Dorothy: Were you able to transfer you sticker collection from your old car to the new one?    :)
                  Dean

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: lefthanded guitar
Date: 15 Nov 12 - 05:33 PM

My old Toyota got over 200, 000 miles on it. Toyota seems like a well respected car, judging from the postings here.

I haven't owned a Jetta, but I've ridden in a couple, and they seem like good cars.And brand isn't everything, sometimes it's the luck of the draw and how the car was maintained.

But please, whatever you , Do Not, Oh Please in the name of all that's holy,
DO NOT buy a Mercury Sable.

Trust me on this.

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: gnu
Date: 15 Nov 12 - 05:58 PM

Problems with the E80 tranny, lg? A lot of Fords had (have) problems with that. And brakes.

What is it with Ford and brakes? Maybe such problems have been fixed bit I wouldn't know. My truck is 3 years old and I try to drive it at least a few miles every day to keep all four disc brakes from rusting... ya can't get them turned here anymore... only replaced... $$$!

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Ed T
Date: 15 Nov 12 - 06:41 PM

Some Jetta models are made with similar quality to Audi - buyer beware when they get old, as one thing after another breaks.VW

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: pdq
Date: 15 Nov 12 - 08:48 PM

But please, whatever you, Do Not, Oh Please in the name of all that's holy,
DO NOT buy a Mercury Sable.

Trust me on this.


The Mercury Sable and Ford Taurus are essentially the same car(s).

Transverse engine, transaxle, Ford V6 (head gasket problems), and another awful Ford transmission design. It costs $3000 to fix a tranny problem.

"Car from Hell" is fair.

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Janie
Date: 15 Nov 12 - 10:12 PM

Well, I've had two Tauruses (1987 and 2002) and one Sable (1993.) The price was right on all three - free. Hand-me-downs from parents and nephew. All had less than 100,000 miles on them at the time. None of them made it to 200,000, although the 2002 might have, just barely, if son hadn't wrecked it. Good cars for free and comfortable rides, but not long-lived. (used parts are easy to come by, though.)

My head is spinning from reading Craigs List ads for the past 3-4 nights. The prices for older used cars, especially the Toyotas, boggles my pea-brain.

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Janie
Date: 18 Nov 12 - 05:11 PM

This is turning into work and a real time crunch. I live in one rural area and work in another rural area 40 miles away that is truly remote. Can't take much time off work and still get the job done. Plus I have the private practice and can't responsibly reschedule those clients in order to look for a car on weekends. Most cars I'm seeing, be they privately offered or at dealerships, are far enough away that I can't get there before dark and/or just before closing time. Also work most Saturdays in my private practice, and most dealerships that sell older cars in my price range are closed on Sunday.

Having to rent a car for the next week to take some strain off, (We are driving 160 miles 3-4 days a week to get both me and my son to work in opposite directions, and that means I also can't stay late at work when I need to. Weekly rental is expensive, even with Enterprise. Would much rather be putting that money toward a car payment. ARRRGHHH!

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Janie
Date: 18 Nov 12 - 05:12 PM

Pardon the virtual panic attack. Taking deep cyber-breaths.

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Ed T
Date: 18 Nov 12 - 05:29 PM

Just some thoughts:

If private, ask if there is an indoor public parking garage nearby the vehicles (for an example a parking garage), where you could look them over in the light?

If small dealer, explain your situation to a salesperson/or the owner, with info on the vehicle you seek, - if they know you are not a "tire kicker" they may offer to show you a vehicle during off hours, or on Sunday?

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: maeve
Date: 18 Nov 12 - 05:47 PM

Janie, is there anyone in the general area you could trust to look over good possibilities on your behalf? That would free you up to only look at the few real possibilities. Thinking....

Maeve

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Janie
Date: 18 Nov 12 - 06:51 PM

Bobert (bless him) is doing a lot of on-line research and locating for me, and also looking at some cars down his way. He is too far away to do any legwork locally. He has narrowed the search for me up my way, but the distance issues noted above still make it difficult for me to follow up with what he is finding, given my work situation.
In addition to Bobert, my sister is looking over on the Eastern Shore. I trust both of their judgements enough that if they found something and said they would buy it for themselves under the circumstances, I'd buy it sight unseen, given my difficulties with time to look. Both of them are more car savy by far than am I, and probably much better negotiators.

Otherwise, no, maeve. It is a good thought. I just don't have that kind of local social network.

My mechanic is also looking. Said it was possible he might find something quickly, but it could be a month or more.

Sis has offered the use of her "truck" - an old Suburban, I think, that she has to be able to tow her utility trailer for gardening purposes or riding lawn tractor repairs. It is a gas hog, but cheaper than renting every other week, which is what I am otherwise faced with. Just have to figure out when my son and I could drive up to the Eastern Shore to get it. A borrowed vehicle would definitely take some pressure off.

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Janie
Date: 20 Nov 12 - 10:46 PM

Bought a car today. For my son. '99 Camry in very, very good condition, according to my mechanic. At a fair price, again according to my mechanic, from a private owner.

Had lots of good, helpful advice and comments from you folks on this thread that helped guide my thinking, and I thank all of you. I also especially thank pdq and Bobert for some behind the scenes research, comments, legwork, guidance and advice.

Mudcat Community in action, all the way around.

Something to add to my list of thanksgivings, come this Thanksgiving.

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Nov 12 - 10:49 PM

Great...

Looks like we'll be back here in a year or two to get mom squared away...

I'd still give Sean the Subaru and you take the Toyota...

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: maeve
Date: 21 Nov 12 - 07:28 AM

Congratulations, Janie.

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Janie
Date: 21 Nov 12 - 06:14 PM

What was really nice was turning the rental in 5 days early. Recouped a heap of expense.

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Ed T
Date: 21 Nov 12 - 07:46 PM

'99 Camry-Good choice. Should last you for a very long time.

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: mg
Date: 22 Nov 12 - 02:14 AM

I vote for giving the Subaru to the son, buying an Avalon if possible, because the Shores of Avalon has been going through my head and trusting the mechanic more than some stranger on Craig's list.

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 22 Nov 12 - 03:16 PM

Congratulations, Janie! Such a relief, I know!


Dean: The car you met is the one I have. Bumper stickers do not move. I would like to remove some old ones and put on the pristine new ones I purchased at the Peace Resource Center on Earth Day in Balboa Park, San Diego. Delighted to find some favs, esp Well Behaved Women Rarely Make History for the driver's door. As others die off, I have some terrific replacements. I love watching people read my car, a moving political statement.

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: frogprince
Date: 22 Nov 12 - 11:20 PM

Good grief, Dorothy; I can't believe how I scrambled my 'rithmetic, or I would have known that had to be the same car. I just realized what happened to my head: it feels so much like I've known some of the folks there far longer than less than four years, that I was thinking the fest year we went to was before 2007. And that's at least as much because of the way I feel about said people now as it is because of my fade into senility.

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: kendall
Date: 23 Nov 12 - 07:50 AM

You can have your rice burners. Our two Chevrolets suit us just fine.

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Nov 12 - 09:11 AM

Yeah, if ya' like push cars, Capt'n...

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: kendall
Date: 23 Nov 12 - 11:15 AM

Our 99 Chevy venture has over 100 thousand miles on it and it runs like a Rolex. It rides like a Cadillac and I have spent almost nothing on it. The 06 Impala has 55 thousand miles and is as good a car as we have ever had. (I've owned three Mercedes, & two Volvos)

Beat it if you can.

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 23 Nov 12 - 11:54 AM

I have put 200 k miles on my Saturn SL1. Still runs great. But with 263 k miles on it, parts do wear out.

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: kendall
Date: 23 Nov 12 - 03:10 PM

There are some cars that just don't hold up. Yugo, for one. I was talking to a guy who just bought a Yugo and I told him he could double its value. When he asked how, I suggested he fill the gas tank.

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Bettynh
Date: 23 Nov 12 - 03:21 PM

Kendall, the Car Guys agree. :::sniff::: I miss them already.

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: gnu
Date: 23 Nov 12 - 03:44 PM

My buddy has a Merc 300D (or a 220? can't recall), late 70's I think. Over 400k, ten years ago, and it runs like a charm. And talk about HUG! 80mph around the Codroy Valley in NF (think, up/down/curves) and it felt like 50mph in a Ford/GM/Christler. I'll never forget... he said "Watch." and cranked the AC full tilt... SNOW! And I was very impressed that it didn't have disposable filters.

Alas, his truck is a Toyota. He swears by Toyota trucks. And, this guy knows his stuff. He has four journeyman tickets, including heavy diesel.

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: gnu
Date: 23 Nov 12 - 03:47 PM

Oh! Yeah! Janie... glad to hear of your success and I DO hope you update us from time to time on how things work out with the new ride.

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Ed T
Date: 23 Nov 12 - 04:26 PM

Early rear wheel GM cars were excellent.

Based on frequent comments I received from Taxi drivers, who drive cars very hard and long, I would avoid 'em until 2005-2006 or so, . Failed automatic transmissions and front end problems were big $ issues. Some of the tranny problems resulted from over-heating in frequent and heavy use. I have been told that life can be extended, somewhat, by installing a transmission fluid cooler.

I never heard bad things about GM trucks-except that they were gas hungry critters. I suspect that has improved recently, as with other vehicles.

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 23 Nov 12 - 04:38 PM

Wasn't there a issue with GM putting Chevette Trannys in Impalas?

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: gnu
Date: 23 Nov 12 - 04:55 PM

Never heard about that, JtS. I did hear about the GM "candyshafts". Heard it up close and personal. When I had my Impala (78?) with a 305 V8, I changed out the oil for for summer with STP (50). Purred like a kitten when it was cold to warm. Otherwise, it was still a KNOCKIN under load, even with High Test! And, no, messin with the timing didn't help.

My last Ford, a 1998 small V8, spark knocked a week after I bought it. They said they could set the timing back 1 to 2 degrees or I could use High Test... don't ask me if I was pissed off to no end! I said, yeah, set it back and put that on the work order and that will extend the powertrain warranty as long as I own it. They weren't happy either when I said that. They did it. I set it back and used High Test. I wouldn't do that today with the prices of gas as they are.

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: pdq
Date: 23 Nov 12 - 05:43 PM

"My buddy has a Merc 300D...his truck is a Toyota. He swears by Toyota trucks. And, this guy knows his stuff. He has four journeyman tickets, including heavy diesel."

Last September I finally sold my huge '87 4X4 3/4 ton Suburban for $1200 and bought a rather grody 300D diesel Mercedes for $300. Needed a windshield replaced. Cost $200. Total $500 for a diesel engine with 147K total miles with an ugly car wrapped around it.

This September I sold the Mercedes with 4 days left on the registration so I wouldn't have to pay the fees. A whole years use of a car for less than $300, including an oil change and new windshield.

Put the money into a '77 Toyota mini truck the very next day: $625 and everything seems to work fine. 177K mile on the Hi Lux.

gnu's buddy has good taste. Toyotas and diesel Mercedes.

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: gnu
Date: 23 Nov 12 - 05:57 PM

Minds me. One of his old Toyotas... im and is lad was on a nob scoutin mooze. Spotted a BIG bull comin on dark. Pedal down. Broke thae frame 2/3s of the way down ill (Gary, b'y, 'e zays, we don't spare equipment when'rs a job ta do, eh?) and he drove it the rest of the way, rather slowly, of course. They got the bull, got home and went back with another truck and an ATV. 'e, welder as well, welded the frame back up and drove it for a while yet. Been after mooze wit n but only close ta is ome. 'e wanted me ta go "back" wit n on a real unt but I am just a Mainlander sos I couldn't tough it. Eedder dat or I ain't fookin nuts, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Ed T
Date: 23 Nov 12 - 10:16 PM

Own any of these Edmunds 100 worst cars?

100 worst

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 04:20 AM

Are Ford frowned upon in the States? Taurus is made by them isn't it? I have a C-Max 1.6 Diesel that is brilliant. Don't know what the US equivalent is though.

Not seen Skoda mentioned either - Very good reputation here. VW quality witthout the VW price!

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 08:33 AM

Taurus has come a long way since it was first introduced... The early ones didn't last very long because they ate their transmissions and, frankly, weren't built all that well...

They got better and better and are now rated well...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Ed T
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 08:50 AM

Skoda came into Canada in the 80's (along with the Yugo). While inexpnsive, they did not stand up, and many jokes were made on their lack of quality at that time

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 09:23 AM

Skoda in the 80's is a very different beast to Skoda today, Ed. The compant was bought by Volkswagon and build quality went through the ceiling! In addition VW tend to try out any new ideas in the Skoda so they tend to get all the leading edge gadgets and gizmos.

I suggest you take a look a the web site out of interest - Could be an eye-opener. Although if you do decide you want to try one your luck is out. Looks like you Canucks scared them off last time and they never came back! :-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 09:39 AM

I have had three of those 100 cars and didn't find them all that bad. Wow! there are a lot of high end brands, Ferrari, BMW, Porche, Rolls Royce etc on that list.

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: LadyJean
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 10:28 AM

I spent most of this summer shopping for cars on Craigslist. You do not want my opinion of that web site, and it's probably illegal to email those words. This having been said, it's the best place to look for cars. BUT

If something listed on Craigslist looks too good to be true, that's because it is. The site is scammer heaven. That good car that is just a couple of thousand less than you expected to pay for it, is somebody's scam offer. They'll ship it to you, just send them the money, yeah right.

Don't answer an ad that doesn't include a phone number. Don't expect the car to look as good as it's picture. (You know somebody tried to sell me a car with half it's front bumper missing!) Do not believe everything you read. I did get my present vehicle on Craigslist. But, it took some effort

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Janie
Date: 26 Nov 12 - 11:26 PM

Well....I made the right decision on going for a car for my son instead of for myself. (Not really a decision, it was more a matter of what I found first.) I would have passed the Subaru on down to him if I had found a car for me. The radiator went on the Subaru a few miles from my mother's house Sunday morning as I was headed back from WV to NC. Turns out, the battery was also going bad - though it took awhile to figure out that was what was going on with the anti-theft/alarm system.

Had I bought a car for me and passed the Subaru down to him, I would still be paying for a major portion of the repairs on the Subaru, plus have a much bigger car payment to contend with.

The Subaru's days are obviously numbered. I've spent close to $1500 on it in the last 6 weeks and am well aware I am not out of options in terms of things that can go wrong with everything but the engine - which runs really, really well. Barring something like the transmission going, I think I can keep it on the road for another 6 to 12 months. That will hopefully give me time to position myself to finance a later model Camry or Accord for myself by the time the Subaru dies.

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Janie
Date: 01 Dec 12 - 08:09 PM

Insurance OUCH!!!!

I was told the rates would not increase for Son as the result of the accident until the May premium was due. Got the bill for removing the 2002 Taurus and adding the 1999 Camry, plus adding collision on the Camry. The bill doubled to a little over $2000 per year. My own safe driver and multiline discounts disappeared, and the rates for me on every line of the coverage more than doubled. Sumpin' ain't right here.


Me and my agent, who happens to be my cousin by marriage, are gonna have to have a talk.

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Dec 12 - 08:55 PM

Time to turn the Subaru over to the son and just carry the basic state minimum on it...

And save lots of $$$ on insurance...

Plus, why does he get to drive the real car and you gotta drive a clunk??? Clunks are for kids...

Plus, ya'll could have bough an old beater Toyota Corolla clunk for the $1500 you've put in the Subbie and not put a dime in it...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Ed T
Date: 01 Dec 12 - 09:27 PM

I would question if collision is worth it on any car valued less than $3,000 to $5,000. As they ge, you can normally find good and cheap parts to fix 'em and you can normally find a cheaper repair shop if insurance is not a factor+If you put in a collission claim, your rates often go up (added through the years) you end up paying as much in increased insurance as the insurance repairs cost.

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: Janie
Date: 01 Dec 12 - 10:28 PM

To Bobert - I want the all wheel drive while I got it for my long commute on ice slick country roads early winter mornings, plus, I have more sense when dealing with breakdowns, plus, the Camry has never been smoked in, and why should Son have to breathe the nasty smells from my nasty habit blowing out through the AC and heater vents of the Subaru.

We listed me as the primary driver of the Camry and him as the primary driver of the Subaru, so that is not the issue. I see no reason, however, with me going from a 1997 Subaru to a 1999 Camry on the insurance, for the total premium on the car with me listed as the primary drive to have doubled. The premiums for me in the Camry tripled for both liability and medical coverage.   That has nothing to do with the year or make of a vehicle. Sumpin' ain't right here.

To Ed. I understand the dollars may not add up over the long haul, and kinda have a running debate in my head about that. Thing is, coming up with a large chunk of cash on short notice is hard for me. I have to carry collision on the Camry because I financed it. We chose to not carry collision on the Taurus and when I do the math over the nearly 3 years we had it, that makes sense. We would probably not have gotten a pay out equal to the premiums we would have paid for a new driver (my son will be 19 in a couple of weeks and was/is in a high risk pool.) However, my ex splits the cost of our son's insurance with me, but not for the cost of the vehicle. Son and I personally would have been better off carrying collision on the Taurus in terms of what we are out-of-pocket or having to fiance now, because ex is not contributing to the cost of replacing the Taurus.

I was only paying $95 per year for collision on the '97 Subaru as the primary driver. That was well worth it, imo. This bill I got today has me paying $280 a year for collision on a '99 Camry with me as the primary driver. The collision for the Subaru with Son as primary driver jumped to $377 per year.

I understand the high rates for Son. What I don't get is the huge jump in rates for me. And I am shaking in my boots at what the premium is going to jump to in May, when his accident factors in.

Subject: RE: BS: Good Used Car?
From: kendall
Date: 02 Dec 12 - 07:18 PM

I have our home insurance and two cars, full coverage for $100.00 per month.Kemper insurance co.