BS: pushbutton entry/dead battery

Subject: RE: BS: pushbutton entry/dead battery
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 17 Nov 12 - 04:39 AM

Look up 'car thieves' on You Tube. It's the best place I know for handy hints ;)
I saw a clip somewhere of two guys with a rubber tube with rubber bulb on one end, where they slipped the end into the tiniest gap by the door lock, pumped the other end, and the door lock sprang opem.
Lots here

Subject: RE: BS: pushbutton entry/dead battery
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 17 Nov 12 - 02:39 AM

It's hard to make general statements about a lot of automotive stuff, especially in recent years. Doors that had to stay latched and closed driving down the road now have to stay shut if you hit a concrete barrier at 30 (or more) miles per hour, so a lot of things have been "improved."

Auto thefts have been sufficiently expensive that now most recent model cars have overlapping (and sometimes mutually defeating) theft deterents, so several models prevent insertion of a door "slim jim" - just one of the simpler things.

While it used to be common to get window glass at a salvage yard, "environmental activism" has made them far fewer (where you can get to them) and "styling differences" make the special curves and shapes needed for specific models much more numerous, with the result that it's very much more difficult to find the right one for a specific make/model vehicle, so nearly all replacements (here) are with new glass. You call a "window shop" to see if they've got what you need before doing anything. Even if they can't get new glass, their dealer chains probably can find a usable "recovered" one much more cheaply than you can, unless you have "trade contacts."

In most places in the US, any of the plentiful window shops would prefer to come to the vehicle for a windshield replacement, but for a side window you nearly always will be asked to bring it in. Most window shops will travel up to 50 miles or so without charging mileage for the ones that are easy to replace, and if your insurance agent has a little "leverage" (let the agent make the appointment?) sometimes they'll stretch even that a little.

While it once was easy enough to pull the inside panels to get a side window in, with some newer cars you have to (according to the service manuals) break some parts to get the panels loose far enough, which means you have to have new parts to replace them. If they were always the same parts, that wouldn't be much problem, but they're not necessarily all the same for "all brands." Electric window and lock actuators are also in strange places that very from one model (or option package) to the next and may include lots of little "cable drive" connections to make them fit into weird and unusual places, so model-specific information is a good idea before trying to break one of them open.

And with electric doors/windows you do need to disable the air bags before doing much of anything remotely electric. Odds of triggering them may be low, but replacement cost can be very high. Some insurers would "total" a vehicle (some vehicles) based solely on whether the bags have been fired a few years back, although I don't know whether that's changed recently.

My best advice is "call someone who should know" for any reasonably specific problem, and then do enough of your own research to eliminate the most blatant liars.

With older cars, things were a lot more flexible. (I use that excuse to keep Lin driving her 20 year old Chevy truck, but she's starting to raise objections. ($!#%!!) )

John

Subject: RE: BS: pushbutton entry/dead battery
From: Bert
Date: 17 Nov 12 - 12:43 AM

John,

When I was in England we used to leave the parking lights on all night every night without a problem.

One thing that I didn't mention 'cos it should be a given. The first thing to do is clean the battery terminals.

I once had to call a locksmith 'cos I'd locked my keys in the car. He had a gizmo that was kinda like a blood pressure cuff which he slid down the top of the door and inflated it enough to get to the latch.

Subject: RE: BS: pushbutton entry/dead battery
From: Melissa
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 11:03 PM

Those are good suggestions for folks closer to cities.
I am rural and don't have those options..or money to spend on calling a service. There's nothing like that in my town.


If the car and I were in the same place, I would work at popping the hood through the bumperhole until I got it.
I would follow that by carefully stashing whatever tool I used in the house..where it would do no good if this happens while I'm somewhere else.

Subject: RE: BS: pushbutton entry/dead battery
From: EBarnacle
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 10:55 PM

Gurney just posted the same question I have. Can you get AAA or equivalent org. to come out and jimmy the lock? Most of these guys carry a tool called a Slim Jim for just this job. Of course, you have to be a current member. Sometimes a friendly policeman will do it for you. [Yes, they do exist.]

Subject: RE: BS: pushbutton entry/dead battery
From: Gurney
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 10:38 PM

As John says. You usually open a bonnet lying on your back with your head just under the front and your arm inserted up in front of the radiator grille. Usually.
I don't agree about which 'window' to break, though. It is a mechanic's job to replace a dropglass, and although it needs a few tools, it is fairly straightforward. A windscreen or backlight nowadays is usually glued in, part of the structure of the car, and it is an auto-glass specialist's job to remove and replace.
The insurance company might be suspicious about a windscreen completely broken out. They are designed to keep the occupants inside the car in the event of accident, and it takes something like a felling-axe to make a hole big enough to crawl through.

Buy the glass before you break one, though. Thieves break them, and some are in short supply from wreckers yards.

Don't you have a mechanic service who'll come to your home in situations like this? If you order a new battery from them, they shouldn't charge too much to pop the bonnet.
Or a battery service?
Or the AA, RAC, or whatever the local motoring organisation is?

Subject: RE: BS: pushbutton entry/dead battery
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 09:58 PM

No cutting or butchering required in any case I've seen, RB. There's a latch in there "somewhere" and all you need is a good enough idea of where it is and which way to push/pull on it.

The only real problem is that once you've done it once, you''ll know how to make a better tool (regardless of what one you used) and you'll put it in some handy place where you can be absolutely certain that the next time you need it you either won't be able to find it or you won't remember which side up it goes when you try to use it again.

(Fact of life in the garage.)

John

Subject: RE: BS: pushbutton entry/dead battery
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 07:00 PM

Insurers are all swindlers.

Cutting the bonnet open is easy, and replacing bonnets is also easy, but getting one the right colour in good condition out of a scrapyard is hard.

Rather than butchering the bonnet it is likely to be easier to butcher the grille. After that you are likely to find the bonnet release cable accessible. On Volvos (I cant speak for yank tanks) a replacement grille drops in with about 3 little clips - takes about 20 seconds.

Replace battery, put fingers in ears while fighting with the bugger alarm (usually remote re-lock, remote unlock, repeat) and Bob's your auntie.

Subject: RE: BS: pushbutton entry/dead battery
From: Melissa
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 06:53 PM

I am exceedingly fortunate in my insurance place.
They seem to believe that customers are People!

Subject: RE: BS: pushbutton entry/dead battery
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 06:34 PM

Asking your insurance person - assuming you insure with someone reasonably reliable, is generally a very good idea, since they're in contact with people who may have the same problems you do, and they have a vested interest in keeping costs reasinable - to them if they pay, and for you if they keep you happy with their service.

They may be about your only reasonably accessible protection against service shops willing to exploit you with "unusual fees" since the shops are interested in their profit but the insurers look at what it costs them, and sometimes you.

Unfortunately it's about as hard to find an insurer to trust as to find a service shop that won't scam you, and that often depends about as much on your own individual agent as on the big guys back at insurer corporate.

John

Subject: RE: BS: pushbutton entry/dead battery
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 06:25 PM

It must be difficult for such a small man to use a keyboard.

No problem - I use a step stool to reach the keyboard. Its a cinch with a little practice.

Subject: RE: BS: pushbutton entry/dead battery
From: Melissa
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 06:13 PM

When I was thinking about whether to go ahead and see about tracking down a replacement window, I thought I might find that the windshield would cost less..plus, it would avoid the chance of whoever took the door apart putting it together with broken hooks or something that would leave me with a flappy inside door panel. Yuck.

I'm leery of those subscription gadgets. I doubt I'll ever have to deal with anything like that because I'll always have un-trendy oldish cars.

You gave me an idea, John!
If the locksmith turns out to not be able to get in for some reason, I can ask my insurance guy if he has any idea how other folks get in their pushbutton entry cars.

Subject: RE: BS: pushbutton entry/dead battery
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 05:55 PM

On almost all vehicles, it's possible to "jimmy" open the hood, which would let you recharge the battery and restore the lock function. On most cars it's fairly simple, although not obvious and not quite the same on all.

Most recent vehicles (sedan types) don't permit an entry through the "trunk" because of cross bracing to provide torsional stiffness that forms an almost complete barrier (intentional or by accident?) to getting through to the passenger compartment. Some windows are fairly cheap to replace but without checking first it's hard to guess which one is cheapest.

Since windshiel replacements just from "flying gravel" are fairly common, it might be cheaper to bust the windshield than a side window since on most vehicles the door must be partially disassembled to install a new side glass, which adds significant "labor cost."

Check with a window shop (or your insurer) before you hit.

For recent models, a windshield is probably about $120 (US) but some insurers may have "agreements" with a shop to reduce your cost. A side window might be more mainly due to labor costs. (Note though that almost anyone can reach in through a side window but it may take a trained athlete to get in through the windshield hole on some vehicles.)

Recent models of most popular models include remote calling that allows the manufacturer to unlock the vehicle remotely if you telephone a "magic phone number" and can give them a password, but you generally must pre-register for the service. Many of them automatically send a notice of an accident (apparently whenever an air bag is fired) and they notify nearest police/emergency services and give them the GPS location reported by the vehicle. Most of them allow remote "kill switches" that can kill the engine if you report the vehicle stolen. (Some police prefer that you only "kill it" when there's evidence that the thief is in the vehicle.(?))

Since all of the manufacturers who install these systems think they're a very good idea, the advertising overwhelms any reports of how well they actually work, so it's very difficult to make a good estimate of how useful (relative to their costs) they are, but there is adequate information to indicate that maintenance costs are VERY HIGH WHEN (not IF) something goes wrong. It's also nearly impossible to tell in advance how much registering and "renting" the added "services" will cost after the "free trial" period generally offered, and in the case of my newest vehicle the manufacturer REFUSED to give an answer when I asked them directly "how much will it cost after the free period."

The complexity of these added systems makes it nearly impossible for most people to do much of their own maintenance, so they're a built-in encouragement for dealer service shops to "inflate" charges. For a recent failure of the "Tire Pressure Monitoring system" the dealer estimate was "about $360" to repair. A couple of weeks of dedicated research showed a possible correction.

Tools required - the ignition key, a tire pressure gauge, air to reinflate tires.

Time required - about 20 minutes. (not counting the research time)

Problem resolved.

Based on past performance, the dealer who made the estimate would probably have charged around $150 - but only because I'd have argued about the original bill I would have expected to have received if I'd let them do it.

John

Subject: RE: BS: pushbutton entry/dead battery
From: Melissa
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 05:03 PM

It must be difficult for such a small man to use a keyboard.

Subject: RE: BS: pushbutton entry/dead battery
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 04:46 PM

thanks, I probably couldn't have thought of that on my own, Greg.

Ya think??? Bite me.

Subject: RE: BS: pushbutton entry/dead battery
From: Melissa
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 04:44 PM

I'm not sure either, RB.
I've been told that the internal workings of the lock are the same as on doors with regular key entry. Of course, I've also been told that on some of these cars, there's something too tight in the door and locksmiths break windows trying to get their slimjim/tool thingy slid in.
The electric windows close tightly and the button pegs are smooth. I don't think I'd be able to force the window down enough to poke a burglar tool in..not sure the electric lock button would have enough juice to unlock IF I could get it poked.
It's Really inconvenient to have the car a few miles away. It cuts down on the things I could try.

Pretty sure there's no keyhole for the trunk..I did think about the possibility of crawling through the backseat. It would have been a cheap solution!
I also thought about breaking a window. Thought I could call the junkyard ahead of time to find out which window they have (if any) and then break the corresponding pane of my car. Problem there is that I don't know how to replace windows and I don't have anyone to do it for me. A locksmith will be cheaper than a replacement window and and expert installer.

Subject: RE: BS: pushbutton entry/dead battery
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 04:32 PM

I wonder if you can use the usual car burglary games to open a door.

Is there a keyhole for the boot (trunk)? Could you open that on a key and fight your way in through the back seat?

Is it cheaper to break a side window and then get a spare one from a scrapyard than to pay an expert to get into the car?

By the way, I'm not at all sure that a locksmith will be any good for this job.

Subject: RE: BS: pushbutton entry/dead battery
From: Gurney
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 03:25 PM

You may also find that you have to re-programme things.
When my battery died suddenly, I discovered that the previous owner had changed the security code on the radio, -and then emigrated!
Anyone want to buy a Camry sound-system? You only get 10 tries to find a 3-figure code, and there are two left!
At least the new radio plays CDs without having to change them in the boot/trunk.

I have in the past had to open the bonnet/hood when the cable broke. I found a similar model and asked the owner to open the bonnet to show me the mechanism. It required a lever, but was easy-when-you-know-how.
And can see it.

Subject: RE: BS: pushbutton entry/dead battery
From: Melissa
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 02:49 PM

thanks, I probably couldn't have thought of that on my own, Greg. The options are boundless when your financial situation means you have to agonize over whether you can afford $60 for a damn locksmith.

If I'd thought of that days ago, I could have just replaced the car instead of trying to fix what I have with what I can afford and that would have been a real daysaver!

Subject: RE: BS: pushbutton entry/dead battery
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 02:39 PM

Next time, get a car with a real key lock. All technologies have their limits - as you've discovered.

Best of luck - sincerely.

Subject: RE: BS: pushbutton entry/dead battery
From: Melissa
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 02:31 PM

Report:
So far, I'm still stranded. Hood remains unopened and I'm going to end up having to throw some money to a locksmith. (dammit!)

The bumper hole thing was a good idea. The latch release apparently really IS in there..but my sister couldn't trigger it. The car is in town (and I'm in the country) so I don't have access to it to see if I can lubricate or come up with a clever plan involving physics to open the cockadoody thing.

Thanks folks! There's a LOT of good, useful information here and I really appreciate every speck of it. I know it veers uncomfortably toward melodrama, but this dumb battery landed on a pile of enough other not-so-good stuff and served as a viable Last Straw.
Knowing where to find a sturdy handful of GoodGuys who don't mind helping others find ways to think through problems saved my bacon.
Thank you.


Locksmith early next week.

Subject: RE: BS: pushbutton entry/dead battery
From: GUEST,999
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 02:00 PM

Before my time, but we heard about the Bennett Buggy.

"These cars were common in North America during the 1930s. In Canada, they were known as Bennett Buggies – to symbolize the failed policies of Richard Bennett. Bennett was the Prime Mister of Canada from 1930 – 1935. In the United States, the same cars were known as Hoover Wagons. The idea was the same: people use it to condemn then President of US, Herbert Hoover."

from the www

Subject: RE: BS: pushbutton entry/dead battery
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 15 Nov 12 - 02:23 PM

Reminds me of a true story. I used to own a 1936 Ford, and being somewhat impecunious then, I never had much fuel in the tank. Anyway, one day, having run out of petrol my friend Peter and I were forced to push it quite a long way to a filling station. When we eventually arrived there somewhat out of breath the attendant (remember them?), walked up and said "Yes?". To which Peter replied, "Two new pairs of shoes please" well the attendant was distinctly unamused, but I collapsed in giggles.

Subject: RE: BS: pushbutton entry/dead battery
From: GUEST,999
Date: 15 Nov 12 - 01:58 PM

LOL

Yer not far off, old timer.

Subject: RE: BS: pushbutton entry/dead battery
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 15 Nov 12 - 01:41 PM

9's second car

Subject: RE: BS: pushbutton entry/dead battery
From: GUEST,999
Date: 15 Nov 12 - 01:19 PM

John's first car.

Subject: RE: BS: pushbutton entry/dead battery
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Nov 12 - 01:13 PM

Dead batteries are often caused by poor electrical connections impairing charging.

I still want to hear how the bonnet got opened!

Subject: RE: BS: pushbutton entry/dead battery
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 15 Nov 12 - 12:58 PM

Ah Phil, I didn't say it wouldn't work after 2 years. Just that it wouldn't be at it's best thereafter. Anyway, no splitting hairs. I just like to renew mine every 2 years, that way I feel happier. Too many electronice on modern cars to take a chance. Now in the days when I first owned cars, and they had starting handles, I could always get them started. So what if they kicked back and broke yer thumb? ;)

Subject: RE: BS: pushbutton entry/dead battery
From: Newport Boy
Date: 15 Nov 12 - 12:27 PM

John Mac - I was at my best for only a few years in my 20s, but I've looked after myself and managed to function fairly well for the 50 years since!

If you look after a battery, it should be good for a lot more than 2 years. I've only replaced 2 batteries on modern cars, and I keep a car for 100,000 miles or 10 years. The small battery on my Toyota Yaris diesel needed replacement at 6 years, and diesels need a much more reliable battery than petrol engines.

The tiny little battery on my BMW C1 scooter was replaced last year - 8 years old, including 2 periods of a year when the bike stood in an unheated garage. I did charge it twice during those years, but I wouldn't normally bother.

Phil

Subject: RE: BS: pushbutton entry/dead battery
From: GUEST,999
Date: 15 Nov 12 - 10:40 AM

"I tend to think like a woman and searching mannish subjects with womanish words often provides a pile of useless or insultive or inaccurate info."

Melissa, everything I know about cars--close to nothing really--I either learned the hard way, found on the internet or from one of the fire departments I was on. I know at least a dozen women and men who can actually fix cars by diagnosing what's wrong then determining what needs to be done.

In my case, if the fluids I can check are all ok, the tires round and no flames coming from anywhere on the vehicle, I figure I'm good to go. Don't feel bad, gal.

Subject: RE: BS: pushbutton entry/dead battery
From: Louie Roy
Date: 14 Nov 12 - 10:20 PM

Joe Offer said he got a jump start and then drove his vehicle without a battery and it ran fine. This is very true you don't need a battery to run your vehicle once it is started but believe me (DON'T TURN ON YOUR LIGHTS BLOW YOUR HORN USE YOU ELECTRIC WINDOWS ETC BECAUSE IF YOU DO YOU WILL BLOW THEM OUT. If you don't believe me try it and you will be sorry you did. Been there

Subject: RE: BS: pushbutton entry/dead battery
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 14 Nov 12 - 09:03 AM

A car battery is at it's best for only 2 years. After that, replace it. There was a gimmick about using the signal from the spare key at home, to open a car door, by holding your mobile phone by the door and getting whoever is on the other end to press the spare key fob, but that only works with a charged up bettery, and I'm rambling again
Just ignore me I'm used to it.

Subject: RE: BS: pushbutton entry/dead battery
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Nov 12 - 08:57 AM

Joe - Also a problem when the battery in the key fob thingie goes dead, which they regularly do.

As gnu sez: a real lock with a real key - not another electronic doo-dad is what's needed.

Todays cars are so loaded down with unnecessary and counter-productive electronic junk that they're damn nead un-functional & have no fail-safe backup whatever.

Write those letters.

Subject: RE: BS: pushbutton entry/dead battery
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Nov 12 - 08:21 AM

Once a battery starts acting reluctant it's just not worth it to delay.

Subject: RE: BS: pushbutton entry/dead battery
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 10:58 PM

McG -

Most of the data entries like the door lock codes, or just identifying the key to start the engine on "primitive" vehicles, is stored in pROM or similar devices that can retain it all even without power, so once the battery has been charged everything should work normally.

The most common exception is the dashboard clock, and some radios may need to have all the buttons reprogrammed to the stations you want.

Bert -

If the battery went dead just from sitting, it should be checked to see if it needs to be replaced. The really paranoid folk would want to check the alternator as well, since a "surprise" dead battery is often because it's not being charged normally.

Just leaving the interior "dome light" or parking lights on (you usually can override the automatic shutoffs) can drag a good battery down to zilch in a very few hours though, so if you can find a reason for the dead battery it's likely that it's not the battery's fault.

If the battery isn't a "no maintenance" type and it's been allowed to run dry (or just low on water), or if there's corrosion/crud on the connections, it needs service, and could be damaged if it's been abused too much. Age of the battery is also an indicator of when to replace but there's enough variation in life that it shouldn't be the only thing considered.

John

Subject: RE: BS: pushbutton entry/dead battery
From: EBarnacle
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 10:54 PM

The one question which I have not seen here is: How long did the car sit before the battery was discharged? Also, were any lights on in the car? Either condition could discharge the battery. If no lights were left on and it was only a few days, it is time to consider whether there is a short in the system or whether your battery is nearing the end of its life. The time to replace a battery is before the winter not when it craps out in an inconvenient place.

Subject: RE: BS: pushbutton entry/dead battery
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 10:34 PM

My 1999 Honda Civic got stolen a couple of weeks ago, and I had to pick it up at the police impound lot. The battery, stereo, and spare tire had been stolen from the vehicle. The guy at the impound lot gave me a jump start, and I drove the car to a parts store to buy a battery.
Ran like a charm without a battery.
I drove a rented Prius while I was at the Getaway. The Prius has an electronic fob that acts as a key, and all you have to do is get near the car for it to unlock; and then push a "power" button to start the car (although nothing happens until you step on the accelerator). Didn't take me long to get used to driving without having to fish in my pocket for my keys. I guess it would be a problem if the battery went dead, though.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: pushbutton entry/dead battery
From: Bert
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 10:01 PM

I would advise buying a new battery. I have found that once a battery starts playing up it is time to get rid of it. Kinda like a spouse.

And get your alternator checked.

Subject: RE: BS: pushbutton entry/dead battery
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 10:10 PM

With a jump start or using a Car Starter (which aren't too dear - maybe £20) I'd drive around for about 10 miles before I'd feel safe to park. The battery may not be fully charged, but good enough for folk.

But I'm still trying to work out how you got into the car itself, if it doesn't have any kind of back-up to a push button cody thing which wasn't working. I wouldn't want one of those. My cars got an electronic key which means I can lock if and unlock at a distance, but it still has a keyhole I can use.

It's like those daft TVs you come across sometimes where there are no manual controls for when the remote goes missing. Daft.

Subject: RE: BS: pushbutton entry/dead battery
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 09:34 PM

How long it will take to charge an auto battery depends a little on how you charge it.

If you jump start the car and let the alternator do the charging, you can estimate how long it will take if you know the current capacity of your alternator. Most recent cars will have an alternator theoretically capable of producing around 35 to 45 amps output. Alternators with much higher ratings are available.

You would also need to know the amp-hour capacity of the battery, and typical auto batteries probably would be on the order of around 70 to 180 amp hours. You won't generally find this on the battery label in the US, but it's required in most European countries, so here you'd have to look it up on line for your battery(?).

The Amp-Hr capacity is measured at a current of 3.5 amps, and charging/discharging at different rates may give different numbers.

If you put a constant 3.5 amps into a 100 amp-hour battery it will take about 29 hours to get to full charge but if you put a constant 35 amps in it will only take about 2.9 hours, but since the battery voltage increases as the charge increases, the voltage difference available to push the current in decreases as you get closer to full charge, so you'd need to at least double that time for charging off the alternator, since it has limited maximum voltage that it will produce (to avoid exploding lightbulbs and letting the smoke out of all your electronics).

A "garage type" charger (using AC power) can charge a battery at a nearly constant current "all the way to the top" by applying increased voltage and only holding at a fixed current until nearly full charge is reached, so you might be able to get pretty close to a full charge in around an hour or two, but consensus is that this kind of fast charging is a little hard on the battery so you don't want to do it too frquently. Maximum recommended charging rate for auto batteries for normal purposes is generally around 10 Amps, and most battery makers recommend that fast charging never exceed 20 Amps.

Fortunately you don't need a fully charged battery for any realistic purposes. The Cold Cranking Amps (CCA usually marked on the battery) is the number of amps the battery can deliver for 30 seconds at 0 F without going below 7.2 volts. The 7.2 volts (1.2 V per cell) is chosen because at that point the battery is considered "uselessly dead" but anything above that (but preferably significantly above it) might possibly start an engine in good shape, and should keep most of the electronics "barely alive." For safe "barely starting" a voltage above about 10.5 or 11 would be preferred. A cheap voltmeter is a better indicator of when you have "enough" charge than any guesswork.

A battery is considered fully charged at 14.3 volts. A battery at 14.4 volts is called "EXPLODED!"

Auto regulators that control the output of the alternator generally regulate the voltage at around 12.4 to 13.6 volts, so a battery in a vehicle will never be charged above that level. At 12.4 V, a battery is (theoretically) only about 50% charged, and that's about what most autos drive around with.

To get a "dead" battery back to normal charge range for your vehicle would typically take at least 3 or 4 hours of operation, but in most cases 10 to 20 minutes should get one back to "startable" for an overnight parking, but may not be enough if the car is parked for more than a few hours.

The better procedure, whenever possible, is to connect a charger with something like 8 or 10 amp capacity and let it charge for more like 6 to 12 hours. A charger with "tapered charge" capability is recommended, but might cost 20% more than one of the simpler ones. Very good chargers were available in my area recently for around $30-$45 (US), but a decently long extension (100 ft 12AWG?) cord to plug one into the outlet in your 2d floor apartment might be more like $60.

John

Subject: RE: BS: pushbutton entry/dead battery
From: Rapparee
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 08:31 PM

Back when I worked in snow country (i.e., my whole working career) we kept lock de-icer and jumper cables just for those who...well, you know. When I moved Out West I bought one of those portable power thingies so people could start their cars by themselves. We also kept a snow brush/window scraper available for the public.

Subject: RE: BS: pushbutton entry/dead battery
From: gnu
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 07:24 PM

Ummm I didn't do it but... ?

http://www.2shared.com/document/e__kWM2R/1997_Lincoln_Mark_VIII_Owners_.html

Subject: RE: BS: pushbutton entry/dead battery
From: ragdall
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 06:53 PM

My owners' manual is online. I'll bet that yours is too?
During working hours a call to your favourite auto dealer's service shop should get you the information you need, too.

I keep the hard copy of my owners' manual in the glove box in case I need it when I and the car are together.

rags

Subject: RE: BS: pushbutton entry/dead battery
From: Melissa
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 06:47 PM

Ha, that's what I was thinking, 9..sort of like keeping the emergency window-breaker gadget in the trunk.
..but it was a nice idea, Gnu. In this case, it's unfortunate that I do keep my manual in the car but most times, it is sensible.

One problem with running online searches to find out things about subjects that are traditionally more manly is that I have a horrible time trying to figure out What to search for. I tend to think like a woman and searching mannish subjects with womanish words often provides a pile of useless or insultive or inaccurate info.
Mudcat is the absolute best place on earth for a woman to get solid info on stuff and (usually) not be talked down to.

Our weather is still having warmish spells so at least that part isn't problematic this time around.

Thanks guys,
I really do appreciate your help/input!

Subject: RE: BS: pushbutton entry/dead battery
From: gnu
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 06:38 PM

HAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA!

I do shit like that as I grow older too, 9!

Heheheheeheeee! Thanks for the laugh, buddy!

Subject: RE: BS: pushbutton entry/dead battery
From: GUEST,999
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 06:30 PM

"I keep my owner's manual in my weehicle"

Gnu, in this case that's like keeping the lock deicer in the glove compartment. (I know that from first-hand experience.)

Subject: RE: BS: pushbutton entry/dead battery
From: gnu
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 06:21 PM

20 minutes idle should be fine under regular use conditions but Amos makes a good point and not just about how flat it was... age, how many times was it flat, how cold does your weather get... whatever.

In any case, Kansas will be along to answer all questions as soon as he reads this thread. He knows pretty much everything and I am sure he will have advice that Amos and I and most other humans don't know. Spaw too but he keeps going to the hop ta bug the nurses so I wouldn't count on him.

As for where and what the latch is, I keep my owner's manual in my weehicle but I do have this here internut that I am communicating to you with so that shouldn't be a problem for you.

Subject: RE: BS: pushbutton entry/dead battery
From: Melissa
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 05:58 PM

With a jump, a 3 or so mile drive and a few minutes running, it had enough gumption to start again the next day..after sitting a few days, it was too low to start (but locks, dome light, etc worked)

I wish I had popped the damn hood Then and left it ready to open!

I think it'll be able to perk up.
Half hour or so?

I truly hate being stranded and/or having to rely on a rescuer..I won't turn it off until it's back at the house where it belongs next time--just in case!

Subject: RE: BS: pushbutton entry/dead battery
From: Amos
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 05:53 PM

Depends how flat it was, but if it is still basically sound you can drive it while it is charging--but you would prefer to keep that motor running until you are (a) at a servie station or (b) are satisfied it has been long enough to enable restarting from cold.


A

Subject: RE: BS: pushbutton entry/dead battery
From: Melissa
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 05:34 PM

How long does a jumped battery need to run to get back up to par?
(presuming the alternator is ok)

Can it just sit and idle, or do I need to drive it while it charges itself back up?
(presuming this isn't a dying/last leg battery stunt)