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BS: US Thanksgiving--Debate

gnu 25 Nov 12 - 07:18 AM
John MacKenzie 25 Nov 12 - 05:28 AM
Henry Krinkle 25 Nov 12 - 12:35 AM
Henry Krinkle 25 Nov 12 - 12:32 AM
Don Firth 25 Nov 12 - 12:26 AM
Joe Offer 25 Nov 12 - 12:15 AM
Henry Krinkle 24 Nov 12 - 11:55 PM
Greg F. 24 Nov 12 - 07:11 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 24 Nov 12 - 06:43 PM
Greg F. 24 Nov 12 - 06:31 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 24 Nov 12 - 06:17 PM
gnu 24 Nov 12 - 05:00 PM
GUEST,999 24 Nov 12 - 04:38 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 24 Nov 12 - 04:26 PM
GUEST,999 24 Nov 12 - 04:04 PM
Stilly River Sage 24 Nov 12 - 01:47 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 24 Nov 12 - 01:40 PM
Greg F. 24 Nov 12 - 01:36 PM
GUEST,999 24 Nov 12 - 01:30 PM
Dave the Gnome 24 Nov 12 - 01:15 PM
Greg F. 24 Nov 12 - 12:57 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 24 Nov 12 - 12:53 PM
Henry Krinkle 24 Nov 12 - 12:45 PM
John MacKenzie 24 Nov 12 - 12:39 PM
Ron Davies 24 Nov 12 - 12:39 PM
Greg F. 24 Nov 12 - 12:21 PM
Greg F. 24 Nov 12 - 12:16 PM
John MacKenzie 24 Nov 12 - 12:14 PM
Greg F. 24 Nov 12 - 12:13 PM
Ron Davies 24 Nov 12 - 12:05 PM
number 6 24 Nov 12 - 11:42 AM
Henry Krinkle 24 Nov 12 - 11:28 AM
Greg F. 24 Nov 12 - 11:23 AM
Ron Davies 24 Nov 12 - 11:13 AM
John MacKenzie 24 Nov 12 - 10:24 AM
Greg F. 24 Nov 12 - 10:24 AM
Greg F. 24 Nov 12 - 10:21 AM
John MacKenzie 24 Nov 12 - 10:03 AM
Henry Krinkle 24 Nov 12 - 09:43 AM
Dave the Gnome 24 Nov 12 - 09:41 AM
Dave the Gnome 24 Nov 12 - 09:39 AM
John MacKenzie 24 Nov 12 - 09:21 AM
Henry Krinkle 24 Nov 12 - 09:15 AM
Greg F. 24 Nov 12 - 09:06 AM
Charmion 24 Nov 12 - 07:29 AM
Henry Krinkle 24 Nov 12 - 06:58 AM
John MacKenzie 24 Nov 12 - 04:42 AM
Henry Krinkle 23 Nov 12 - 10:43 PM
gnu 23 Nov 12 - 08:29 PM
gnu 23 Nov 12 - 08:10 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: US Thanksgiving--Debate
From: gnu
Date: 25 Nov 12 - 07:18 AM

Turkey soup? Ohhhhh yeahhhh mmmmmmmmm.

And, it's times like that when I miss being fat. Left over turkey, spuds, carrots, turnip, and fresh onions in a hash fried just this side of burnt and smothered in gravy. I think I heard my scales groan just now.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Thanksgiving--Debate
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 25 Nov 12 - 05:28 AM

Turkey soup Joe! Does that mean Krankie Krinkle is cooked?


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Subject: RE: BS: US Thanksgiving--Debate
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 25 Nov 12 - 12:35 AM

It may spoil before I get to eat it. Won't be the first time.
=(:-( ))


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Subject: RE: BS: US Thanksgiving--Debate
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 25 Nov 12 - 12:32 AM

Mine's still thawing and uncooked.
I haven't had any turkey.
=(:-( ))


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Subject: RE: BS: US Thanksgiving--Debate
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Nov 12 - 12:26 AM

Actually, my favorite part of the turkey is the sandwich.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: US Thanksgiving--Debate
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Nov 12 - 12:15 AM

All the historical stuff about Thanksgiving is so much fakelore, anyhow. Thanksgiving wasn't much of a feast until the 1940s. But hey, I got to the best part of Thanksgiving today - the turkey soup.
It was delicious.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: US Thanksgiving--Debate
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 11:55 PM

You're in over your head, Greg.
Better back away.
=(:-( ))


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Subject: RE: BS: US Thanksgiving--Debate
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 07:11 PM

I am assuming

You seem to do that a lot, Liz, instead of sticking to facts.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Thanksgiving--Debate
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 06:43 PM

That's why I do it, Bruce...because at times, their pain is absolutely palpable.

You know me, you know my emotions run deep and at times I'm all over the place because of them..but I *feel* that pain she speaks of..and it breaks my heart,as well as lighting a furnace of anger inside me.

This should *not* be happening in this day and age..

You know, on that film I linked to in the Abe Lincoln thread, 'Dakota 38', where some Lakota men rode to Mankato to offer the hand of peace out and to honour their 38 ancestors who were hanged there, there was a young man, Billy Ray, who was on that journey for many reasons....He spoke of not really mixing with white people much, feeling they didn't care and had done so much harm etc. yet he found that many of the white people he met on that journey were there to help in every way they could, one man even putting his own life on the line when he went to try to get food for the horses, getting stuck in a blizzard and it changed his entire outlook, made him feel *cared* about.

He learnt so much on that journey, as did all who came into contact with those riders..

But at the end of the video there is a 'One Year Later' part, and an 'In Memory Of' section ...and so many of them had died within a year of this beautiful film being made. Many were older men, so it was the natural way of things, but some were so young, so very young.

Billy Ray was one of the youngsters who had died...

I am assuming he committed suicide, for he admitted to being deeply depressed. He was such a lovely lad, they all were...and yet this Great Sadness took him too...It shouldn't be happening.

No more Trail of Tears..
And yet, there are so many who are walking that trail, each and every day and so many of them are walking it alone...

Dakota 38


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Subject: RE: BS: US Thanksgiving--Debate
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 06:31 PM

Andy jackson's a bad choice for your argunment, Liz. Ever heard of the Trail of Tears?

And playing the Hitler card, too. You really ARE a piece of work.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Thanksgiving--Debate
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 06:17 PM

What upsets me so very much, Bruce, is that a lot of Native Americans feel, to this day, that no-one cares about their history, as in *truly* cares...

It really emotionally hurts them when Columbus is celebrated or Thanksgiving is not discussed in the way it should be now..

They *want* to heal themselves, but they need support and that comes in many forms. My way of supporting is to let them know that many people care deeply about them, about their past and where they are now in the present. It's shouting out about bastards like John McCain and those within the FBI...

Yes, I know there are ruthless, arrogant people in all races, but honestly, I've now heard the same story from so many who have written to me, thanking me, saying it makes them feel so pleased to feel that *finally* people are starting to care and stand beside them...

How would the Jews feel if, for example,instead of Andrew Jackson, the American currency had Hitler on the dollar bills?

Anyway.....



Below are some words that someone put on one of the photos on my page. I mentioned that genocide is still happening to many Indigenous People. Here is what she wrote, with my answer to her, and it is words like these which drive me on, no matter what others may throw at me or think of me.

I do what I do for people such as Ansata:




>>>Ansata: "Yes it is! I could tell you of what happened yesterday, the day before, the day before that.....and today."


Support Chief Raoni: "Ansata, no matter what happens, please know this, that I have the GREATEST respect for your People. There are so many 'out here' who are right beside you and spreading this story across the world. Stay Strong and be so, SO PROUD of who you are!"


Ansata: "Oh Ka"piik'shi!!! (thank you) for your words! I haven't been told these things since many of my family elders passed! I didn't realize you knew my people! so many are unaware of Kikapoo or as we say Kiiwegapawa & Kikaupa, many even believe we are gone! whiped out!! Yet our numbers are the highest now since the very first occupation! But yes I face the horrors of racism everyday, in one shade or another (as we all do) which always shoots me back to the, much worse sufferings of our people.

In my lifetime, & I'm only 40!, for instance: Three of my beautiful Aunties (& one unborn child) were murdered, & many dear ones fell victim to suicides-we've had 7. Unfortunately this list goes on-as well as for so many of our people out there. This current pain thrust upon us each day...combined with our Ancestral pain!

I feel this is why we as Native people face such traumas in our homes as well-the Ancestral pain is so sadly embedded within our very spirit's, & many forgot how to live in the Circle.

But Again I thank for you repect of my Tribe & me! For your beautiful words-that Help Now more than you can imagine!...it felt more like a Huge Hug of Solidarity and Compassion that I needed so much-beyond words! YES I am SO very PROUD of who I am! and YOU! and my Nation!! & I will til my day comes to join my people on the other side of this circle :) ..No'Ki'ki'no'w'Depana!! ...(we never say goodbye :)"


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Subject: RE: BS: US Thanksgiving--Debate
From: gnu
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 05:00 PM

Beavers build dams and those dams improve the environment. If humans build dams they also may improve the environment but should only do so if they take care of the people and the environment affected. What practices, programs and policicies will these human dam builders use to further enhance the environment and the peoples these dams will displace? If none, damn the dams. If there are sound practices, programs and polcies then I would suggest Jagger is stunned as me arse OR simply making donation money from tugging heart strings.

Hey... ya cannot stop the beavers. We beavers have been INCREASING the quality of human life for... well, since we figured out how to grow apples for Eve better than God. Fire, flood, pestulence? Pfffft. Beavers have that shit beat for the most part. God? The Beaver is God. And, ya cannot deny The Beaver. That is a step BACKwards.

Soooo... if you have proof that the Beavers are totally ignoring the environment and the peoples affected, cite it.

And don't ask me to cite proof that The Beavers are working on this. I couldn't be arsed to bother searching it all and reading it. As a proud Beaver, I just know it's there. On accounta, I wear the ring of a Royal Canadian Beaver, Camp Number 9, sworn to protect the public above ALL else. If I don't, I lose my Beaverness. The Brazilion Beaver is no different. Said it on the other thread... send in your money... see where it goes.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Thanksgiving--Debate
From: GUEST,999
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 04:38 PM

There was a conscious and considered move to exterminate Native North Americans, Liz. That's just one of the decisions. Some of the killing was intended and some accidental. Amherst wasn't alone. Read the "nits breed lice" remark--should be easy to find on-line. I have to get for a bit.

But keep in mind, everyone here is not against you.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Thanksgiving--Debate
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 04:26 PM

Amherst & Bouquet


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Subject: RE: BS: US Thanksgiving--Debate
From: GUEST,999
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 04:04 PM

Thanks, SRS.

In return, if it's still available, see if you can locate "The Myth of the Savage" by Olive P Dickason. Great book and wonderful teacher.

While she didn't 'glorify' native North Americas, she also didn't allow them to be denigrated or allow their various cultures to be misrepresented.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Thanksgiving--Debate
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 01:47 PM

Bruce, the theory is that coastal tribes were contacted by Europeans over the centuries and diseases traveled inland via usual trade routes and migratory patterns, so by the time the actual conquest began, the populations were already historically sharply reduced. Take a look at Keepers of the Game by Calvin Martin. His concluding chapter about warfare on game is a bit of a stretch, but the rest of the book is excellent.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: US Thanksgiving--Debate
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 01:40 PM

Bruce....

Bianca Jagger on Belo Monte


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Subject: RE: BS: US Thanksgiving--Debate
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 01:36 PM

Hi, Liz - thanks for the additional nonsense.

By the way:

Still waiting for info requested in posts 22 Nov 12 - 05:54 PM & 22 Nov 12 - 07:07 PM.

Also, just wondering, have you ever met or talked to Chief Oren Lyons or Floyd Red Crow Westerman? Ever been to California? Ever studied U.S. history in depth?

Or is all you know what you read on internet blogs, FarceBook, and see on YouTube?


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Subject: RE: BS: US Thanksgiving--Debate
From: GUEST,999
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 01:30 PM

Another view that is cogent and worthwhile.

The figure of 20,000,000 makes no sense. It's more likely ten million, not that that isn't bad enough. However, please be informed that there are three people here I know personally who have worked with Indian people in various places and in various capacities.

One of the great realizations I had in my younger years is that even Indians lie when it's to their benefit to do so. The 20,000,000 figure is one such possibility.

There is altogether too much acrimonious shit on this thread, so intelligent discussion isn't really possible.

The dam on the Amazon will bring electricity to 16 million people. I am not in favour of the way the builders are going about it. Because I don't spend hours writing to the Brazilian government doesn't mean I don't care. I am involved with some other things that are equally important and imo equally worthy. No offense to anyone, but that's the way I see things and that's that.

Issues like this certainly touch the passions of people. I think Y'ALL oughta back off a bit and consider what you're saying.

BM


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Subject: RE: BS: US Thanksgiving--Debate
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 01:15 PM

Whoever said

I suggest others here go and enjoy a cold turkey sandwich and take a nice late autumn walk. It will soothe your soul

Is likely to incur the wrath of Liz! The whole point of this thread is that you should NOT enjoy your thanksgiving Turkey. You should weep, wail and shriek over the way American Indians are treated instead.

Or you could do as I suggest and ignore the nay-Sayers. If anyone wants to have a beat yourselves up over the treatment of {fill in your own pet ethnic peoples} then get your own day; DON'T steal someone else's holiday.

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: US Thanksgiving--Debate
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 12:57 PM

Hey, Ron - then don't fuck off. I don't give a shit either way.

Oh and John, sorry about that - you can SOD off - since you can offer nothing to add to the discussion but empty platitudes & nugatory comments.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Thanksgiving--Debate
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 12:53 PM

No words from me are needed about some of the messages above, for those who have posted them reveal far more about themselves than I could ever do.

To get back to the thread....Words from Floyd, a man for whom I have the greatest respect. Like Chief Oren Lyons he was a man of great Honour, Integrity and Intelligence, loved and respected by many people around the world. I am merely one of those people. The video these words are taken from is below. Please, those who care, find the time to watch it. - Thank you


From Floyd Red Crow Westerman of the Dakota Sioux Nation:
>>>"....What happened to the Indigenous Peoples of this country is much like the Jewish Holocaust, only America's ethnic cleansing was at the hands of people who would later claim innocence in the name of god, freedom and democracy.

Historians have been reluctant to use the word 'Holocaust' to describe the taking of the land in the shaping of America. Instead they use rhetoric like 'The New Frontier', or claim that the Indians were savage after all, or describe it as 'Manifest Destiny'. Manifest Destiny means that the taking of the land was not only justified, but ordained by god. Most schools in America still teach this feelgood version of history.

'America's War On Indian Nations' tells another side of the story. This series will tell the truth about gross injustices and rampant human rights violations inflicted upon an entire culture. Early-day Europeans who came to America were commissioned to look for gold. With gold the objective, it meant that nothing would stand in their way.

State by state various tools of genocide were employed in what became a systematic clearing of the land.
The first of these tools was the bullet. The bullet was used to kill many millions of my People. Another tool of genocide was the smallpox infected blanket. To Indians the blanket was a dominant trade item. To give a blanket was a gesture of respect. Knowing this, early Americans distributed smallpox blankets in order to exterminate and eradicate the existing population. Those who survived this early form of biological warfare were removed by government-funded militias and more bullets.

Imagine being in your home having dinner with your family, when suddenly, armed intruders break in and shoot your parents, take your children, burn your house, the children to be later used as servants and sex slaves. And if you survived *that*, to be rounded up like cattle and put on death-marches to remote locations far from your homeland and put on reservations, a nicer term for what they *really* were, concentration camps.

This horrific scenario is what happened to thousands and thousands, if not millions, of Indian people.

For my ancestors, the Dakota, Lakota and Nakota, this policy of concentration camp lifestyle was in effect from 1890 to 1930. For 40 years my People were prohibited by law from leaving the reservations.

The ethnic cleansing was effective. It is estimated that when Columbus arrived there were approximately 20 million Indians in America. By the end of WWII only 500,000 remained. This means that complete extermination was accomplished.

Listen to the words of some of the Founding Fathers of this country.

George Washington, revered as the father of this country wrote, and I quote: "Indians were wolves and beasts who deserved nothing from the whites but total ruin."

Thomas Jefferson, acclaimed proponent of freedom and democracy argued that the United States Government was *obliged*, and I quote: "...to pursue Indians to extermination, or to drive them to new seats beyond our reach."

Andrew Jackson, founder of the modern democratic party and the greatest Indian killer of all American presidents, urged United States troops, and I quote, "..to route out from their dens and kill Indian women and their whelps."

It is a great irony that American Indians, after being denied for many years their right to practice their own religion, speak their own languages, after being forced to live in the oppressive concentration camp lifestyles, after all that, Indians have gone on to become staunch defenders of this country in times of need. More Indians have received the Congressional Medal of Honour, per capita, than any other group.

We remain a proud People in spite of the efforts to exterminate us.

In order to heal, we first must accept our past."<<<<<

These words above are taken from Floyd's introduction to excerpts from 'Exterminate Them - The California Story, from the documentary series 'America's War on Indian Nations.


If you have not seen this video, please, watch it.

Exterminate Them - The California Story from 'America's War Against the Indian Nations


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Subject: RE: BS: US Thanksgiving--Debate
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 12:45 PM

I think Greg needs to fuck off.
=(:-( ))


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Subject: RE: BS: US Thanksgiving--Debate
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 12:39 PM

Game set and match to me ;)


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Subject: RE: BS: US Thanksgiving--Debate
From: Ron Davies
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 12:39 PM

QED


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Subject: RE: BS: US Thanksgiving--Debate
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 12:21 PM

As I said, John - take it up with Saint Liz, not me.

And actually it WAS you that dragged in a total non sequitur: the one about her being "passionate in her beliefs" as if that meant anything and/or excused all else.

You'll also notice that its hardly only me that finds her obnoxious.

Take it up with them, as well.

And THEN fuck off.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Thanksgiving--Debate
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 12:16 PM

Atta boy, Bill - hit & run, the classic coward's way.

And no- the person that has posted more on this thread than anyone else is .... wait for it... Saint Liz.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Thanksgiving--Debate
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 12:14 PM

It's not me who's being assinine in dragging in a total non sequitur, in order to continue a discussion about Thanksgiving.
Sorry Greg, but I agree with biLL. Methinks ye doth protest too much.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Thanksgiving--Debate
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 12:13 PM

Hi there, Ron Simple Seeker Fount Of All Knowledge Worth Knowing Davies.

Fuck off.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Thanksgiving--Debate
From: Ron Davies
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 12:05 PM

Greg F obsessed by a personal grudge?    Totally impossible. He's the soul of tolerance and civil behavior.    You can easily see this by reading any number of threads he has graced.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Thanksgiving--Debate
From: number 6
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 11:42 AM

Greg F. ... you have posted more on this thread than anyone else .... I'm beginning to think you are lunatically obsessed with the woman .... if not you would certainly ignore her.

There must be an emptiness within your own psyche Greg, demanding to be filled, that you a fanatical adherent to fight he Cause.

now,with that being said ..

I'm outta this madcat thread ... I suggest others here go and enjoy a cold turkey sandwich and take a nice late autumn walk. It will soothe your soul, and God knows many here need that.

biLL   ;)


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Subject: RE: BS: US Thanksgiving--Debate
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 11:28 AM

You're a bully. Picking on a poor woman.
=(:-( o)


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Subject: RE: BS: US Thanksgiving--Debate
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 11:23 AM

So are you comparing Lizzie with Pol Pot?

Don't be an ass, John - you know perfectly well what I meant.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Thanksgiving--Debate
From: Ron Davies
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 11:13 AM

Jan, hailing from Bradford on Avon, agrees with the attitude of the opening poster---all the English colonists should have been slaughtered the minute they stepped on land.    The American Indians should have recognized them for the existential threat they were--- much more, in fact, than the French were.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Thanksgiving--Debate
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 10:24 AM

So are you comparing Lizzie with Pol Pot?


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Subject: RE: BS: US Thanksgiving--Debate
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 10:24 AM

Mr. McBollox: Thank you. Nail hit squarely on head.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Thanksgiving--Debate
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 10:21 AM

she's passionate in her beliefs

Well, John, so was Pol Pot, and a host of others. Didn't mean they were right.

I also seem to remember something about

The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.


I'm not personally attacking Liz. I don't know Liz, never met her (thank God, but that's another issue).

What I DO know are her postings and how she presents herself, her self-aggrandizing crusade, her patent nonsense and mis-information (dare I say lies?) - and THATS whats being attacked.

Do take it up with Liz.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Thanksgiving--Debate
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 10:03 AM

Sorry Dave hadn't read the posts you quote, and maybe Lizzie needs to cool it too. However I still see no valid reason fpor some of the ad hominem attacks on her. Also it may just be that she's as pissed off as I am about the villification. Hence the bite back, but calling someone a dimwit isn't high in the heinous crimes list ;)


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Subject: RE: BS: US Thanksgiving--Debate
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 09:43 AM

This is fun.
=(:-( ))


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Subject: RE: BS: US Thanksgiving--Debate
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 09:41 AM

Sorry - Missed the close italics. From 'So I responded' are my words.

D.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Thanksgiving--Debate
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 09:39 AM

John - Look back at the thread. Lizzie hurls abuse and personal attacks at the drop of a hat. I did start off (post 3 or 4 or threabouts) trying to say that I don't believe the holidays should be purloined for political purposes. On suggesting something practcal may be better than face book I got -

I'm helping to arrange the visits...dimwit...many of the pages are all linked up 'behind the scenes' sharing info, sharing posters, sharing ideas and phone calls and emails....Double Dimwit!!

Followed up by

And now, as I said above, go back to your Shitty Campaign of trying to get others to hate me.

So I responded. very politely I believe. in an open letter. I am not going to malicious lies be spread about regardless of who spreads them.

I am not even going to bother posting Liz's response. Go and read it yourslef and THEN start preaching about personal attacks.

I did try my best to engage in debate and offer what I thought was reasonable advice. But I only have two cheeks to turn. When they run out I will hit back.

Cheers

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: US Thanksgiving--Debate
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 09:21 AM

Well Greg, she cares, she's passionate in her beliefs, and if she's wrong then it's up to you and others to persuade her of the error of her ways. Yes I know she's dogmatic, but that's not against the law, and is no excuse to launch a personal attack, which for most people is forbidden on Mudcat. However its appears to be allowed in Lizzie's casel.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Thanksgiving--Debate
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 09:15 AM

Greg is a misogynist.
=(:-( ))


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Subject: RE: BS: US Thanksgiving--Debate
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 09:06 AM

Actually, John McK- its that people tend not to like self-aggrandizing, obnoxious, misguided, canting assholes - whether they be male or female doesn't signify.

And the comments are most definately about what garbage she posts and how she posts it.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Thanksgiving--Debate
From: Charmion
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 07:29 AM

I don't know anything about her except her postings, which I find -- for the most part -- both rude and misguided. Misguided I have no problem with -- there's lots of it about -- but rude is a different matter. I don't like that.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Thanksgiving--Debate
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 06:58 AM

I like her. She's got spunk and fire.
=(:-( ))


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Subject: RE: BS: US Thanksgiving--Debate
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 04:42 AM

Strikes me some people don't like intelligence in a woman, and they definitely don't like women who stand up for themselves, and answer back.
Too many of the posts on here, anonymous or otherwise, are about who is posting, and not, what she is posting.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Thanksgiving--Debate
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 23 Nov 12 - 10:43 PM

Lizzie rocks!!
=(:-( D)


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Subject: RE: BS: US Thanksgiving--Debate
From: gnu
Date: 23 Nov 12 - 08:29 PM

Hmmm... stop the Lizzie bashing, eh? She doesn't deserve any of that nasty crap. Especially from guests who haven't the balls to post under real/consistent names. I may disagree with her on some points, but that shit is inane and only displays your own ignorance. Got something to add? Do so. Otherwise, troll off.


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Subject: RE: BS: US Thanksgiving--Debate
From: gnu
Date: 23 Nov 12 - 08:10 PM

Can I offer an arguement without being shat upon? Hahahahaa.

Anyway, kinda what Don just posted. Those wars (and make NO mistake... the white man waged terrible wars on the Red man and inflicted unthinkable death and hardship) happened a long time ago. There are still "wars" going on but they pale in comparison. Today, many believe our Native brothers have many opportunities. They do, for the MOST part, but many do not and SOME have been cited herein.

It bothers me greatly that it appears some people are so out of touch with the existing hardships of our Native brothers and cling to "righting OLD wrongs" which cannot be done anymore than has been done, exhaulting our Native brothers as being all wise when is just isn't so... people are people... white... red... purple. Here's my deal. I am a person. Don't fuck with my space. I won't fuck with yours. You need help? I will help you. I hope you will help me. But, don't ask me to give up my space simply because of my colour. And, by the way, I have NEVER personally talked to any of my Native brothers who have said I should do so. I've read it in the media and in threads like these but never heard those words first hand from my buddies.

By Native law, nobody owns their space. They only occupy it while they are alive. Can anyone dispute that Native law as it was taught to me? If so, go back home, wherever that may be, and make more space for me and for my Native brothers. I ain't goin nowhere. My rent is up to date.


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