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BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024

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The Sandman 22 Nov 12 - 03:37 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 22 Nov 12 - 07:01 AM
MGM·Lion 22 Nov 12 - 07:13 AM
Ed T 22 Nov 12 - 07:35 AM
Steve Shaw 22 Nov 12 - 07:47 PM
GUEST,999 22 Nov 12 - 08:19 PM
GUEST,olddude 22 Nov 12 - 09:08 PM
pdq 22 Nov 12 - 09:45 PM
olddude 22 Nov 12 - 09:51 PM
MGM·Lion 22 Nov 12 - 11:05 PM
GUEST,Eliza 23 Nov 12 - 04:25 AM
gnomad 23 Nov 12 - 04:36 AM
Ed T 23 Nov 12 - 06:56 AM
GUEST,Grishka 23 Nov 12 - 03:07 PM
Dave the Gnome 23 Nov 12 - 03:37 PM
Ed T 23 Nov 12 - 04:11 PM
MGM·Lion 23 Nov 12 - 04:23 PM
gnu 23 Nov 12 - 04:42 PM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 23 Nov 12 - 05:41 PM
gnu 23 Nov 12 - 05:43 PM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 23 Nov 12 - 05:46 PM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 23 Nov 12 - 05:48 PM
MGM·Lion 23 Nov 12 - 11:46 PM
Dave the Gnome 24 Nov 12 - 03:48 AM
gnu 24 Nov 12 - 07:22 AM
GUEST,Eliza 24 Nov 12 - 09:03 AM
MGM·Lion 24 Nov 12 - 11:38 AM
GUEST,Eliza 24 Nov 12 - 01:07 PM
GUEST 24 Nov 12 - 01:16 PM
GUEST,Grishka 24 Nov 12 - 01:18 PM
MGM·Lion 24 Nov 12 - 01:32 PM
Little Robyn 24 Nov 12 - 08:06 PM
The Sandman 06 Oct 24 - 02:50 AM
The Sandman 06 Oct 24 - 09:27 AM
Raggytash 06 Oct 24 - 09:48 AM
The Sandman 06 Oct 24 - 11:49 AM
Bill D 06 Oct 24 - 12:16 PM
Thompson 06 Oct 24 - 04:38 PM
Bill D 06 Oct 24 - 05:26 PM
Helen 06 Oct 24 - 05:59 PM
Neil D 07 Oct 24 - 02:03 AM
Backwoodsman 07 Oct 24 - 02:22 AM
Thompson 07 Oct 24 - 05:21 AM
Backwoodsman 07 Oct 24 - 05:53 AM
MaJoC the Filk 07 Oct 24 - 06:10 AM
Backwoodsman 07 Oct 24 - 06:13 AM
Thompson 07 Oct 24 - 06:29 AM
Thompson 07 Oct 24 - 06:37 AM
Bill D 07 Oct 24 - 08:28 AM
The Sandman 07 Oct 24 - 08:40 AM
Thompson 07 Oct 24 - 11:11 AM
Backwoodsman 07 Oct 24 - 11:12 AM
Backwoodsman 07 Oct 24 - 11:22 AM
Thompson 07 Oct 24 - 04:27 PM
Thompson 08 Oct 24 - 07:16 AM
Backwoodsman 08 Oct 24 - 07:47 AM
Thompson 08 Oct 24 - 10:00 AM
Thompson 09 Oct 24 - 01:51 AM
Thompson 09 Oct 24 - 11:02 AM
Bill D 09 Oct 24 - 04:23 PM
Thompson 09 Oct 24 - 04:43 PM
The Sandman 12 Oct 24 - 01:23 PM
Thompson 12 Oct 24 - 02:15 PM
robomatic 12 Oct 24 - 07:18 PM
Stilly River Sage 12 Oct 24 - 11:27 PM
Thompson 13 Oct 24 - 05:03 AM
Thompson 13 Oct 24 - 03:45 PM
Thompson 15 Oct 24 - 04:27 AM
Backwoodsman 15 Oct 24 - 06:00 AM
Thompson 17 Oct 24 - 04:25 AM
Stilly River Sage 17 Oct 24 - 01:25 PM
The Sandman 17 Oct 24 - 02:15 PM
Bill D 17 Oct 24 - 03:18 PM
Stilly River Sage 17 Oct 24 - 04:44 PM
Thompson 17 Oct 24 - 06:18 PM
Backwoodsman 18 Oct 24 - 01:54 AM
The Sandman 18 Oct 24 - 04:14 AM
The Sandman 18 Oct 24 - 04:53 AM
Thompson 20 Oct 24 - 04:45 AM
Stilly River Sage 20 Oct 24 - 09:25 PM
Thompson 21 Oct 24 - 02:51 AM
Thompson 21 Oct 24 - 10:07 AM
Stilly River Sage 21 Oct 24 - 11:40 AM
Thompson 21 Oct 24 - 01:29 PM
Stilly River Sage 21 Oct 24 - 07:02 PM
robomatic 21 Oct 24 - 07:19 PM
Stilly River Sage 21 Oct 24 - 11:19 PM
robomatic 22 Oct 24 - 12:25 AM
Backwoodsman 22 Oct 24 - 01:57 AM
Thompson 22 Oct 24 - 03:41 AM
Backwoodsman 22 Oct 24 - 06:51 AM
robomatic 22 Oct 24 - 07:01 AM
Stilly River Sage 22 Oct 24 - 11:06 AM
Thompson 22 Oct 24 - 12:41 PM
robomatic 22 Oct 24 - 02:07 PM
Thompson 23 Oct 24 - 12:21 PM
Stilly River Sage 23 Oct 24 - 02:19 PM
robomatic 23 Oct 24 - 03:07 PM
Thompson 24 Oct 24 - 02:51 AM
robomatic 24 Oct 24 - 05:00 PM
Thompson 25 Oct 24 - 04:48 AM
Thompson 25 Oct 24 - 05:39 AM
robomatic 26 Oct 24 - 01:55 AM
Thompson 26 Oct 24 - 05:16 AM
Stilly River Sage 26 Oct 24 - 10:45 AM
Jack Campin 29 Oct 24 - 09:17 AM
Stilly River Sage 29 Oct 24 - 09:52 AM
Jack Campin 29 Oct 24 - 10:27 AM
Donuel 29 Oct 24 - 10:53 AM
Stilly River Sage 29 Oct 24 - 11:07 AM
Big Al Whittle 29 Oct 24 - 01:14 PM
Donuel 29 Oct 24 - 02:05 PM
Big Al Whittle 29 Oct 24 - 02:19 PM
Stilly River Sage 29 Oct 24 - 02:55 PM
Thompson 29 Oct 24 - 07:40 PM
Thompson 30 Oct 24 - 04:39 PM
Thompson 31 Oct 24 - 05:55 AM
Thompson 01 Nov 24 - 06:38 AM
Thompson 03 Nov 24 - 07:46 AM
Thompson 03 Nov 24 - 08:25 AM
Stilly River Sage 06 Nov 24 - 07:00 AM
Backwoodsman 06 Nov 24 - 10:40 AM
robomatic 06 Nov 24 - 01:00 PM
Thompson 06 Nov 24 - 04:38 PM
Thompson 06 Nov 24 - 04:49 PM
Thompson 07 Nov 24 - 08:18 AM
Thompson 07 Nov 24 - 08:30 AM
Thompson 08 Nov 24 - 03:49 AM
Thompson 10 Nov 24 - 05:30 AM
Donuel 11 Nov 24 - 08:06 AM
Thompson 12 Nov 24 - 07:12 AM
Backwoodsman 12 Nov 24 - 09:56 AM
Thompson 13 Nov 24 - 12:48 AM
Stilly River Sage 13 Nov 24 - 01:00 PM
Thompson 17 Nov 24 - 01:45 AM
Thompson 17 Nov 24 - 03:41 AM
Raggytash 21 Nov 24 - 05:53 PM
Backwoodsman 22 Nov 24 - 07:03 AM
Neil D 22 Nov 24 - 03:07 PM
Backwoodsman 22 Nov 24 - 03:23 PM

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Subject: BS: marmite and the gaza strip
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Nov 12 - 03:37 AM

The British Foreign and commonwealth office decided in 1999 tro launch an inititiave to solve the israel palestine crisis. They consulted mr de bono, who sugested sending them lots of marmite, apparently the middle eastern diet lacks zinc,zinc counteracts irritability.
perhaps the idea should be tried again, a kind of 21 century version of marie antoinettes "let em eat cake", more humane than selling them guns, anyway.

Scroll down for the transferred posts to do with the current war by Israel against Hamas and Hezbollah and Iran. ---mudelf


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Subject: RE: BS: marmite and the gaza strip
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Nov 12 - 07:01 AM

Is marmite related to gelignite?


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Subject: RE: BS: marmite and the gaza strip
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 22 Nov 12 - 07:13 AM

Trouble with Marmite, as we all know and they admit in their own advertising, you either love it or you hate it*. Wonder which side would do which?

~M~

*I, personally, can quite easily take it or leave it alone for that matter; but then I was never the typical advertiser's Mr Average dreambody.


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Subject: RE: BS: marmite and the gaza strip
From: Ed T
Date: 22 Nov 12 - 07:35 AM

The believe the only kosher marmite is produced in South Africa, and some countries do not recognize it as kosher (possibly Israel, as it is hard to find there). So, there was a danger that it could be used as a offensive weapon, Hamas shooting jars of it over to Tel Aviv, disrupting the Kosher diet? Hardly anything the west would condone.


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Subject: RE: BS: marmite and the gaza strip
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Nov 12 - 07:47 PM

Is marmite related to gelignite?

Yeah, but not as tasty.


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Subject: RE: BS: marmite and the gaza strip
From: GUEST,999
Date: 22 Nov 12 - 08:19 PM

Nice stuff because there's 'no sweat' where it's involved.


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Subject: RE: BS: marmite and the gaza strip
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 22 Nov 12 - 09:08 PM

I bet it tastes like jell-o


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Subject: RE: BS: marmite and the gaza strip
From: pdq
Date: 22 Nov 12 - 09:45 PM

See Little Egypt do her new dance: "The Gaza Strip".


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Subject: RE: BS: marmite and the gaza strip
From: olddude
Date: 22 Nov 12 - 09:51 PM

does it come with a pole pdq?


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Subject: RE: BS: marmite and the gaza strip
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 22 Nov 12 - 11:05 PM

No, dude, nothing like jell-o. More like the Oz Vegemite. It's a vegetable malt extract sp.read, can also be used in cooking Don't know what US equiv is but there must be one?

~M~


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Subject: RE: BS: marmite and the gaza strip
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 23 Nov 12 - 04:25 AM

LOL olddude, you and jelly! I can't imagine anything more ghastly than Marmite jelly. UGH! I adore Marmite, but only about once every six months; I get a sudden craving and have it on toast for two or three days. Then I don't want any more. It's the same with peanut butter. It seems to me there are indeed certain vitamins or minerals in these two products which the body needs to top up from time to time. By the way, I do feel the terrible situation in the Gaza strip is not one to be treated flippantly. My heart aches for the poor civilians caught up in the conflict, and for the families of the dead. Let's hope the ceasefire will hold.


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Subject: RE: BS: marmite and the gaza strip
From: gnomad
Date: 23 Nov 12 - 04:36 AM

I would agree re flippancy, Eliza, it is certainly a nasty business.

That said the proposal was at least a semi-serious one, making the point that an intractable problem may require a radically different approach if a solution is to be found.

This contemporary article gives more background.


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Subject: RE: BS: marmite and the gaza strip
From: Ed T
Date: 23 Nov 12 - 06:56 AM

The good news. You don't have to eat marmite to smell of it anymore. Perfume anyone?

marmite perfume


A related concoction story.

Fruitcake toss for the homeless


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Subject: RE: BS: marmite and the gaza strip
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 23 Nov 12 - 03:07 PM

MtheGM, saying M****** is like Vegemite is as if you were suggesting that Arab resembles Hebrew. Wars have been fought over weaker feelings.


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Subject: RE: BS: marmite and the gaza strip
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Nov 12 - 03:37 PM

I can't imagine anything more ghastly than Marmite jelly

Ah, don't forget, Eliza, that jelly in US terms is Jam. Marmite and Strawberry Jam Butties. Mmmmmmm :-)

I am not sure about the opening sentiments though. Pretty sure that Marmte could be used as an offensive weapon. Particularly Marmite Gold (Look it up yourself!)

Cheers

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: marmite and the gaza strip
From: Ed T
Date: 23 Nov 12 - 04:11 PM

I Canada, (at least where I am from) the terms jelly and jam differs.
Jam has full berries/fruit. Jelly is a strained and clear fruit mixture.


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Subject: RE: BS: marmite and the gaza strip
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 23 Nov 12 - 04:23 PM

Grish ~~ Well, only going by what Oz friends have told me about Vegemite; no direct experience. Anyhow, Arabic & Hebrew have many strong resemblances FTM ~

Salaam שלם

2U!

מיכאל


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Subject: RE: BS: marmite and the gaza strip
From: gnu
Date: 23 Nov 12 - 04:42 PM

So, what the heck does it taste like? Can anyone describe it so Dan knows what to do if it's offered? This is a serious situation. Dan is a highly trained US Military officer who has trained others in survival, including eating stuff that most would not and in how to kill a man 50 different ways... are there 51 ways? Well, 52 if you include lime jello.


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Subject: RE: BS: marmite and the gaza strip
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 23 Nov 12 - 05:41 PM

""It's a vegetable malt extract sp.read, can also be used in cooking""

Close Mike.

It's actually a yeast and vegetable extract.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: marmite and the gaza strip
From: gnu
Date: 23 Nov 12 - 05:43 PM

Is it infectious?


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Subject: RE: BS: marmite and the gaza strip
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 23 Nov 12 - 05:46 PM

How to describe a flavour Gnu?

It is slightly meaty flavoured with a high salt content, definitely what you would call savoury.

People like/hate it in roughly equal numbers, and a recent TV documentary suggested that some people may be genetically pre-disposed to like, or hate, certain groups of flavours.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: marmite and the gaza strip
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 23 Nov 12 - 05:48 PM

And NO!

Neither infectious nor contagious. Just nice or nasty depending on what tastes you happen to like.

Me?......I like the stuff.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: marmite and the gaza strip
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 23 Nov 12 - 11:46 PM

Thanks, Don ~~ yeast, of course. Don't know where I got malt from. The flavour is savoury rather than sweet [hence the malapropicity of the jell-o suggestions]; somewhat salty and yeasty. As Don sez, that is about as far as one can go in describing a flavour, without going into the sort of silly jargon that wine correspondents tend to use.

~M~


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Subject: RE: BS: marmite and the gaza strip
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 03:48 AM

So, what the heck does it taste like?

The Japanese use the term 'Umami'. Probably the closest we get is super-savoury.

Cheers

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: marmite and the gaza strip
From: gnu
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 07:22 AM

Thanks. I hope that clears it up for Dan... meaty, yeasty, salty Jell-O.


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Subject: RE: BS: marmite and the gaza strip
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 09:03 AM

LOL Michael, "A cheeky little spread; I'm getting yeast...and..yes,vegetables...and a full-flavoured salty undertone...a good year, I feel for Chateau Marmite."


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Subject: RE: BS: marmite and the gaza strip
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 11:38 AM

LoL right back 2U Eliza ~~ exactly the sort of jargon I meant!

~M~


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Subject: RE: BS: marmite and the gaza strip
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 01:07 PM

Michael, wasn't it a woman called Jillie Goolies or something who used to taste and comment on fine wine?


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Subject: RE: BS: marmite and the gaza strip
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 01:16 PM

מיכאל, you might have missed my point. Vegemite and Marmite compare similarly as Pepsi and Coke. Down Under, friendships and marriages are at risk, no matter how high the content of zinc.

Opium may serve the purpose better - or not.


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Subject: RE: BS: marmite and the gaza strip
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 01:18 PM

You guessed who the GUEST was.


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Subject: RE: BS: marmite and the gaza strip
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 01:32 PM

קן גרישה. טודה


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Subject: RE: BS: marmite and the gaza strip
From: Little Robyn
Date: 24 Nov 12 - 08:06 PM

I used to make my own 'marmite' - you need flaked edible yeast which is a byproduct from brewing beer. Most health food shops will have it and some supermarkets as well. NOT brewer's yeast or breadmaker's yeast!!!! Flaked yeast - the edible variety.
Then mix in some soy sauce until it's a consistency that you want - maybe very thick or it can be runny. The taste also depends on the type of soy sauce you use - dark soy, light soy or mushroom soy. The latter is my choice. Vegemite is supposed to be the same but I can taste a difference and don't like it. Also, English Marmite is more salty than NZ/Aussie Marmite. But right now the Marmite factory in Christchurch is damaged after the Canterbury earthquake last year and you just can't get NZ Marmite in any of the shops. You can get a similar product called Promite, which is made in Australia and this is my favourite now.
Robyn


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Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Oct 24 - 02:50 AM

Which countries are selling arms to Israel?


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Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Oct 24 - 09:27 AM

So who is Israels largest supplier of weapons,? is it the USA?


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Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Raggytash
Date: 06 Oct 24 - 09:48 AM

A cursory search on Google will answer your questions. It music have taken me at least 5 seconds.


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Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Oct 24 - 11:49 AM

So you have learned something?
according to the Washington Post it is the usa, furthermore
US releases $3.5 billion to Israel to spend on US weapons ...
CNN
·
https://www.cnn.com
9 Aug 2024 — The US is set to provide Israel with $3.5 billion to spend on US weapons and military equipment.


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Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Oct 24 - 12:16 PM

Yes, the US provides most of Israel's weapons. We have been committed to their survival since the beginning.
   Now we are in the awkward position of approving Israel's defense, while disapproving of Bebe's horrendous use of many of those weapons for indiscriminate use of them to destroy any presumed locations of Hamas or Hezbollah.
I can't imagine how frustrating it is for Biden to straddle the line between 'protecting' and 'condemning' the actions.
You can imagine how the election would go if all arms to Israel were stopped! And, of course, continuing will lose great numbers of Palestinian sympathizers.
It's a paradigm of a no-win situation. I'm guessing that some things will change when and if Harris wins..perhaps even before she is sworn in.


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Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 06 Oct 24 - 04:38 PM

We're getting a masterclass in the fact that attack isn't the best form of defence.


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Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Oct 24 - 05:26 PM

Note: Israel BUYS those bombs, planes and various munitions from us. It would be quite a financial hit if were to stop.
Then, IF this escalating violence develops into an area-wide war and Iran and others seriously attack Israel, would be even more committed to Israel's defense.
Hamas stupidly started this &#@*#%& violence, but Netanyahu took advantage of it to begin his desire to annex Gaza and turn the Palestinians into truly a people without a country or hope for one.

Everyone carries part of the responsibility for what is happening and a hundred years of ethnic and religious hate looms large. Sadly, I don't see any solution.


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Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Helen
Date: 06 Oct 24 - 05:59 PM

Well said, Bill D!


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Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Neil D
Date: 07 Oct 24 - 02:03 AM

There won't be a cease-fire as long as the opposites in the conflict don't want it. when this all started Netanyahu was being investigated for corruption and it didn't look good for him. All that has been pushed to the back burner but will return to the fore when the war(s) are ended. And as for Hamas they are quite willing to watch the slaughter of their own people as long as Israel is increasingly viewed as a pariah state. According to a Times of Israel article: For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces. He's been using them as a foil against Mahmoud Abbas of the Palestinian Authority in attempts to move toward a Palestinian state. He unofficially negotiated with them via Egypt to allow money from abroad into Gaza. (suitcases full of Qatari cash) He also increased the number of work permits for Gazans from 200 in 2021 to 20,000 in 2023 as a way to get more money into the strip. At a Likud faction meeting in early 2019, he was quoted as saying that those who oppose a Palestinian state should support the transfer of funds to Gaza, because maintaining the separation between the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza would prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state.


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Subject: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Oct 24 - 02:22 AM

”Then, IF this escalating violence develops into an area-wide war and Iran and others seriously attack Israel, would be even more committed to Israel's defense.
Hamas stupidly started this &#@*#%& violence, but Netanyahu took advantage of it to begin his desire to annex Gaza and turn the Palestinians into truly a people without a country or hope for one.

Everyone carries part of the responsibility for what is happening and a hundred years of ethnic and religious hate looms large. Sadly, I don't see any solution.”


Absolutely right on the button, Bill. I find it astonishing that a nation, composed heavily of the descendants of a people who were so appallingly brutalised and ethnically-cleansed in Europe in the early/mid 20th century, are now themselves engaged in the brutalisation and ethnic cleansing of their neighbours, and are so happy to appear on our TVs attempting to ‘justify’ their own inhumanity.

If their God actually exists, he/she must be wondering what kind of monster he/she created.


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Subject: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip
From: Thompson
Date: 07 Oct 24 - 05:21 AM

Did Hamas start this, Bill D? Surely their horrible attack this day last year was a reaction to increasing eviction of Palestinians from their homes by illegal settlements?
It seems unlikely anyone can stop it; Israel is now at war with three neighbouring states, and listening to nobody. And the illegal settlements continue to grow. And America continues to back Israel.


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Subject: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Oct 24 - 05:53 AM

The State of Israel has effectively held 2 million Gazan Palestinians hostage in their own country for many years. Now they are engaged in ethnic cleansing and an illegal land-grab.

What Hamas did a year ago was inhumane and utterly indefensible, but something of that kind was inevitable after years and years of oppression of the Palestinians in Gaza. But what the State of Israel has done since, and continues to do, is far worse - it’s State-sponsored terrorism which has cost over 30,000 Gazan lives, displaced a million more, and now threatens the entire Middle-East with all-out war.

Nobody is innocent in this debacle, and there will be no winners.


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Subject: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 07 Oct 24 - 06:10 AM

> there will be no winners

*Disagree*: Vlad.


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Subject: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Oct 24 - 06:13 AM

Good point.


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Subject: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip
From: Thompson
Date: 07 Oct 24 - 06:29 AM

Yes, good point.

“What needs to be done is for this war to stop,” said Dawas. “It’s a catastrophe… the scale of it is just beyond the human understanding.”


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Subject: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip
From: Thompson
Date: 07 Oct 24 - 06:37 AM

From ABC News: Gaza's silent crisis: a child's battle against malnutrition - malnutrition is raging through Gaza, starving children and a terrible future.


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Subject: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Oct 24 - 08:28 AM

Thompson... Of course "...eviction of Palestinians from their homes..."
was one of the issues, but Hamas was not exactly acting just for the good of the Palestinians... they had a far wider agenda.
All those rockets at Israel and killings at the concert on Oct. 7 were simply the proximate trigger for this scary escalation.


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Subject: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Oct 24 - 08:40 AM

There are winners, they are the US armament manufacturers, and the people who make money out of supplying THOSE WEAPONS


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Subject: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip
From: Thompson
Date: 07 Oct 24 - 11:11 AM

I have no idea what Hamas was at, this time last year. It seemed a lunatic attack, targeting the nearest Israelis, the ones who were most decent towards their Palestinian neighbours. You'd wonder why they didn't target the illegal settlements - but maybe they weren't so near. You'd wonder why the Israeli army didn't arrive for so very long. The whole hideous thing is baffling.


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Subject: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Oct 24 - 11:12 AM

”Of course "...eviction of Palestinians from their homes..."
was one of the issues, but Hamas was not exactly acting just for the good of the Palestinians... they had a far wider agenda.”


Which makes the immensely disproportionate Israeli retaliation, their slaughtering of Gazan non-combatants in their tens of thousands, the displacement of a million others, and now the starvation of those who remain, no better than vengeance and, as such, utterly reprehensible.


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Subject: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Oct 24 - 11:22 AM

”> there will be no winners

*Disagree*: Vlad.”


Good point, MaJoC!


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 07 Oct 24 - 04:27 PM

Israel is now saying that 80% of the 42,000 killed were "Hamas or family members" - meaning that either Hamas had 33,600+ members or Israel is openly admitting driving a coach-and-four through the Geneva Convention agreed by civilised countries after World War I.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 08 Oct 24 - 07:16 AM

Apparently a "former US policy advisor" called Matthew RJ Brodsky tweeted that "Israel should carpet bomb the Irish area [of Lebanon] and then drop napalm over it." Tweet, now deleted, in reply to someone who uses the nick @weatherwar.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Oct 24 - 07:47 AM

The Irish area?


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 08 Oct 24 - 10:00 AM

Sorry, Backwoodsman.
* In Lebanon 10,000 troops from 50 countries are serving as UNIFIL observers - as they serve in many countries where conflict is present.
* The Irish and Polish are in an area in the south.
* The Israeli Defence Force told them withdraw, and the UN said no. (Newspapers announced this as "Irish refuse to withdraw troops".)
* The IDF have now set up a post with tanks near the Irish UNIFIL post.
* Hezbollah have said they won't attack the Irish base.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 09 Oct 24 - 01:51 AM

Rashid Khalidi's next book will focus on Ireland, and how it was a laboratory for Palestine. It stems from a fellowship he had recently at Trinity College, Dublin. He says that to understand Palestine, you have to understand British colonialism more broadly. He is hoping to examine key figures in the British aristocracy whose Irish experience was central to everything they did afterwards – people such as Arthur James Balfour, Sir Charles Tegart and Gen Sir Frank Kitson. He is hoping to show how the Irish experience was exported to India, Egypt and Palestine, and then returned to Ireland again during the Troubles, having been magnified in the colonies. “It is astonishing how personnel and counter-insurgency techniques, like torture, assassination, find their roots with the British in Ireland,” Khalidi says.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 09 Oct 24 - 11:02 AM

How strange that Marmite has invaded this thread!
Here's a truly decent person, Roni Keidar: “I see the people as people, not just as an enemy. I could see their faces. I could see their smiles. I could see the look in their eyes. Most Israelis, especially the younger generation, don’t have that opportunity.”


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Oct 24 - 04:23 PM

Marmite was just in the thread before SRS transferred stuff below it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 09 Oct 24 - 04:43 PM

Ah, didn't know that, thanks, BillD


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Oct 24 - 01:23 PM

should Ireland boycott Israel?
According to the Examiner
Israel fired on UN peacekeepers


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 12 Oct 24 - 02:15 PM

Biden is "absolutely, positively" urging Israel to stop shooting at UN observers, according to the BBC.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: robomatic
Date: 12 Oct 24 - 07:18 PM

After a couple visits to New Zealand, I was under the impression that everyone there was a partisan of either Vegamite or Marmite. So introducing them to the Middle East will only foment additional strife.

I used to love marmite which seemed to have no expiration date, though my jars have long since turned crusty. The brand was named "Sanitarium" (which might be a good brand to try out in the ME).


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Oct 24 - 11:27 PM

There was a video on Instagram posted by NPR (National Public Radio - so they will have vetted it) showing Israeli settlers attacking a primary school in the West Bank.

Israel (the government) behaves badly. The government never does anything about the encroachment and violence of the thuggish "settlers" and the vast amount of territory they have now taken over in what should be Palestinian lands. If they'd get them all out of there and stop the second-class citizenship for the non-Jewish citizen, they'd go a long way to calming the animus from their neighbors. Netanyahu is keeping the war going because when it is settled he will probably be sent to jail. He will certainly continue being tried for crimes while in office. He'd love for Trump to be put back in power, another reason to keep people churned up about a war.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 13 Oct 24 - 05:03 AM

BBC Radio 4's Sunday programme this morning had interviews with Christians in Gaza which would make the tears drop from your face.
As for the brutal illegal settlers, the trouble is that as far as I can see they are the government now; Palestinians describe mobs of thugs coming to beat them as they try to harvest their olives, to burn their homes and steal their land - and the army supporting the thugs, not the home owners.
More settlers are flooding into tiny Israel from settlements abroad, according to this Maariv which claims to be sourced from the Hebrew-language paper Maariv.
For the "religious right" and it is increasingly clear, for the Government of Israel, the plan is ethnic cleansing: settlers in Gaza.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 13 Oct 24 - 03:45 PM

Oh, lord, no: Hezbollah has struck Binyamina, a military town about halfway between Jaffa and Tel Aviv, killing four and injuring 60, some of the injuries critical or severe.
And earlier Israeli tanks smashed through the entrance of a Unifil base; when they left there were explosions, with smoke spreading through the base and UN soldiers with "unusual symptoms" despite using gas masks.
The UN says no food has entered northern Gaza this month…


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 15 Oct 24 - 04:27 AM

Land grab: "Netanyahu mulls plan to empty northern Gaza of civilians and cut off aid to those left inside".


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Oct 24 - 06:00 AM

Oh, what a surprise! NOT.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 17 Oct 24 - 04:25 AM

Currently Israel and its backer are attacking Palestine, Lebanon, Syria and Yemen, and have just killed off a county council which was planning how to rush in aid.
Why is no one terrified?


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Oct 24 - 01:25 PM

This development above all should compel Israel to back off of the assaults: Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar killed In Gaza, Israel confirms

He was the big fish they were going after as they blasted Gaza to bits.

• JUST IN: Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar, the architect of the October 7 massacre in Israel, has been killed, according to the Israeli military.

• Sinwar’s body was spotted in the rubble of a building struck by an Israeli tank in Gaza, according to a radio station run by Israel’s military. The Israel Defense Forces confirmed Sinwar was “eliminated” after Israeli officials ran DNA tests and used dental records to confirm his identity.

• There are no signs that hostages were harmed in the mission that left Sinwar dead, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said earlier Thursday. Negotiations for a hostage release and Gaza ceasefire deal have been at a standstill for almost a month, according to Qatar’s prime minister, who said there was “silence from all parties.”

It doesn't take much searching to land on the un-filtered image of Sinwar (Twitter/X) - they compared not just his face (he was killed instantly with a head wound like that) but his teeth pattern, to be sure it's him. If everyone knows beyond a doubt that he is dead, hopefully things will calm down.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Oct 24 - 02:15 PM

hopefully things will calm down.quote

unlikely, all the time western powers are selling arms and making money out of conflict


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Oct 24 - 03:18 PM

So... by chance they managed to get Sinwar. I guess that as a major terrorist leader, he deserved his fate.
   Sadly there were 10s of thousands of innocent civilians who didn't.
Bibi doesn't seem inclined to ever look for an end to the war.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Oct 24 - 04:44 PM

There is a ticking clock right now for Netanyahu - Biden gave him 30 days to clean up the access to food and supplies for the population. That 30 days lands after the election, at which time the gloves may come off.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 17 Oct 24 - 06:18 PM

Dear God, Yahya Sinwar's fallen in battle, he'll be a hero to his own. Nothing to rejoice about. This plunges the world into trouble deep.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Oct 24 - 01:54 AM

”So... by chance they managed to get Sinwar. I guess that as a major terrorist leader, he deserved his fate.”

Never forget that one man’s ‘terrorist’ is another man’s ‘freedom-fighter’. From the Palestinians’ POV (and mine, FWIW) Netanyahu is a ‘major terrorist leader’.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Oct 24 - 04:14 AM

good point Backwoodsman, one ‘terrorist’, will be replaced by another. The biggest terrorists are those that make money from supplying arms. Masters of War


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Oct 24 - 04:53 AM

Gaza war: Where does Israel get its weapons?
BBC
·
https://www.bbc.com
3 Sept 2024 — The US is by far the biggest supplier of arms to Israel, having helped it build one of the most technologically sophisticated militaries in the world.
HAMAS IS SUPPLIED BY IRAN
Hezbollah by Syria


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 20 Oct 24 - 04:45 AM

Starving since the day he was born: a baby dies in Gaza.
73 people also died in another air strike.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Oct 24 - 09:25 PM

This is a hot topic in American politics right now. I listened to an interview with a Michigan lawmaker from Dearborn on the radio - they are experiencing the proverbial "rock and a hard spot" (the scholar in me wants to also point out these would be Scylla and Charybdis). And the person being interviewed even referred to "Israel" in a way to suggest he thinks it doesn't belong there at all - so there is a lot of heat under the light we're seeing about that political turmoil.

Harris has said she supports a two-state solution, but as long as the Israeli government is resisting it, I don't know that there is enough pressure to put to bear to make it happen. After the election if Biden stops the weapons completely (he gave them a 30-day notice that expires one week after the election) maybe Netanyahu will shift, but the Israeli far right will then disassemble the government. So of course this is happening during the American Presidential election season because Netanyahu hopes to come out ahead by continuing the war or gaining Trump's support.

Oy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 21 Oct 24 - 02:51 AM

"A two-state solution" has always meant Palestinians living effectively in prison camps guarded by Israeli troops, with checkpoints and Israeli rules on who can go in and out. This isn't going to work now.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 21 Oct 24 - 10:07 AM

Israel making a hames of the Geneva Conventions, using Palestinians as human shields.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Oct 24 - 11:40 AM

The only way it would work is for Israel to retreat to the original borders and give back all of the land "settlers" squat on. That's a tough one also.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 21 Oct 24 - 01:29 PM

Tough to be required to give back stolen goods? Wouldn't have thought so.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Oct 24 - 07:02 PM

You think all of those squatters are going to give up quietly?


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: robomatic
Date: 21 Oct 24 - 07:19 PM

Listening to this now: It is long, somewhat insightful, dates from May 2024:

A Conversation About Israel/ Palestine- Isaac talks with Haviv Gur

It is with an Israeli, Haviv Gur, with knowledge of the philosophies of more than one side. A few choice observations on the personality of Hamas members and the recently killed Yahya Sinwar.

This is unlikely to change your opinion, but will likely help you orient your opinion with some of the complexities of the situation and some of the enfolding history.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Oct 24 - 11:19 PM

That's a very long interview. Can you give us a few of his talking points? Starting with how a ceasefire would be harmful to Palestinians. In comparison to what? (There's a transcript but the way it displays is almost unreadable or I'd try searching it.)

I spoke with Haviv Gur, an Israeli analyst who — in my humble opinion — is one of the deepest thinkers covering Israel, Palestine, and the conflict between the two. Gur disagrees strongly with my call for a ceasefire, and his arguments are the best I’ve heard. He spoke at length about how a ceasefire would harm Palestinians more than Israelis, the issues motivating Hamas, the state of Islam in the region, the current dynamics of the war, what the Palestinians are owed, and how we might get to a more positive, constructive future for Israelis and Palestinians alike. It was a long, thoughtful, challenging conversation.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: robomatic
Date: 22 Oct 24 - 12:25 AM

SRS:
In fairness to me, he has a characteristic way of speaking that I cannot match, and a view that is not easy for me to synopsize. In fairness to YOU, the 4 minutes taken to introduce him are the slowest in the whole interview, and Gur's time goes much faster than you'd think. He's like the guy who just landed from the war and takes over the conversation and keeps promising to stop talking but no one asks him to stop talking.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Oct 24 - 01:57 AM

”Gur disagrees strongly with my call for a ceasefire, and his arguments are the best I’ve heard. He spoke at length about how a ceasefire would harm Palestinians more than Israelis”

Reminds me of the classic ‘logic’ of the father thrashing his kid with his belt - “I’m doing this for your own good, it’s hurting me more than it hurts you”.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 22 Oct 24 - 03:41 AM

Haviv Rettig Gur seems to be an expert on Zionism and Israel, rather than on Palestinian issues.
I find it hard to believe that stopping killing would be bad for anyone.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Oct 24 - 06:51 AM

”I find it hard to believe that stopping killing would be bad for anyone.”

Amen to that, Thompson!


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: robomatic
Date: 22 Oct 24 - 07:01 AM

Yeah, the interview is 90 minutes and you have no idea. I'm listening to it all over again.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Oct 24 - 11:06 AM

It's possible to share videos at particular times throughout, so if there is anything particularly clear (or that is disagreed with and needs discussion) then sharing that would be one start. Finding 90 minutes to listen is probably not going to happen this week. But thanks for being patient about push back.

The introduction struck me more the way Thompson made note of.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 22 Oct 24 - 12:41 PM

The only media source with journalists actually broadcasting from Gaza is Al Jazeera; you can watch its live feed here. (It's not all about Gaza; at time of posting it's showing a programme about South America and climate change danger.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: robomatic
Date: 22 Oct 24 - 02:07 PM

Thank you in return for YOUR civility in return. This was the first and so far only vid from the site, which I watched because my brother told me to. He and his family are very antithetical to the violence going on, whereas I am both aggressively depressed and extremely pissed off at the same time, and have to limit my exposure at this time, to the Middle East, Ukraine, and practically all American politics. Last night I went to a fund raiser for our (lone) Democratic Representative, who is fighting a hard battle to retain her position. She appeared and practically apologized for the state of the campaign but she emphasized how hard fought it was and still is due to the extremely narrow margin of Reps in the House and she accurately descibed it as a 'dogfight' which I think encapsulates our politics in general these days, and to be fair, the positive aspect of it all is that it is hard fighting but it IS (still) democratic. It reminds me of a line from the excellent BBC series "I Claudius" where a historian tells one of the tyrants (played by Patrick Stewart) how it is too bad that mankind lost their sense of smell.
So now I have two things to apologize to dogs about.

Among the things that Gur says, well within the first half of my re-watching, is that Hamas spent Palestinians' taxes on the very involved tunnel network which civilians are not allowed to enter, and is designed to protect Hamas. The civilian deaths are a plus, because they are martyrs. Hamas would have no problem if there were more. (Remember he is talking last May). Gur folds in his understanding of Hamas' ideological viewpoint as distinct from other Islamic viewpoints, but not as militant. In particular he mentioned that there are Islamists who disdain Hamas because if Islam is correct and Allah is true, all Jews and Christians everywhere will come to Allah and Islam, and coexistence could be such a path.

If Hamas is not vanquished and SEEN to be vanquished, they will be perceived by Gazans and everybody else as victors. This can be bad for a lot more than Israel. He compared the struggle to contain ISIS, which he interprets as a victory that took five years, with the best that can be hoped for against Hamas. As opposed to the 20 year struggle against the Taliban, which was a failure. (He is well aware of the argument that you can't kill an idea BTW but he is talking about modus vivendi). He feels that the Palestinians have been grievously wornged and have rights that are unaddressed, but I don't recall any specifics. I don't recall any observations about the West Bank, either. He does go into the history of Zionism and the origins of the violence, and the larger issue of the current Islamic world concerned with its overall weakness. For instance, when the English basically took over Egypt, the locals said to themselves, "Hey, we're dominated by the most powerful nation on earth, they walked all over the Ottomans so it must be Allah's will." But when they observed nascent Zionism they reacted: "These are weakest of the weak, how do they fit in with Allah's plan?" He also distinguishes between the viewpoints of the Islamic elites and the man in the street as to coexistence.

Having written this I'm reluctant to reduce it to stuff I probably imperfectly understand, and this by no means summarizes Gur. But here y'are.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 23 Oct 24 - 12:21 PM

But in the late Dervla Murphy's book about Gaza (if I'm remembering it accurately) she refers to tunnels being built to smuggle in goods, to circumvent the Israeli sanctions? She's pretty damning about Hamas, though.
Surely you don't think the mass murder of civilians that's going on is anything to do with defeating Hamas?
(The reason Al Jazeera is the only on-the-spot witness is the targeting of journalists; 173 killed by Israel according to Al-Jazeera, or 128 according to the Committee to Protect Journalists.)
In today's news, the UN says it could take 350 years to rebuild Gaza's economy.
No links for these because the Blickifier isn't working.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Oct 24 - 02:19 PM

Post your links and I can turn them to hot links.

The new shift to Israel blowing Lebanon to wee bits (where Iran has proxy stuff going on with Hezbollah) is just making it all that much harder to sort out. Netanyahu needs a colossal dope slap and his weapons cut off.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: robomatic
Date: 23 Oct 24 - 03:07 PM

Early on in this recent conflict I recall mentioning that Israel bombed the hell out of Southern Lebanon in 2006. Just saying.

This stuff keeps happening again and again, and let's not forget that Lebanon bombed the hell out of their own selves with the ineffective government allowing a massive store of fertilizer to catch fire, then detonate. It's almost as if you need to keep a war on to limit their ability to destroy themselves. Their Syrian/ Iranian masters did nothing to render any superior oversight in this matter, BTW.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 24 Oct 24 - 02:51 AM

Today: ‘Escalating violence’ in northern Gaza has led to postponement of polio vaccines to more than 100,000 children. People are camping on rubble where sewage flows, and in which analysis has found polio microbes…
Al Jazeera: 173 journalists have been killed so far by Israel in Gaza.
Committee to Protect Journalists says 128 killings of journalists have been confirmed; "Journalists in Gaza face particularly high risks as they try to cover the conflict, including devastating Israeli airstrikes, famine, the displacement of 90% of Gaza’s population, and the destruction of 80% of its buildings. CPJ is investigating more than 130 additional cases of potential killings, arrests and injuries, but many are difficult to document amid these harsh conditions."
Meanwhile in Lebanon "what we can see is very similar to what we saw in Gaza during October and November. More and more hospitals are being put out of service by being targeted by the Israelis. The Lebanese health system has lost eight hospitals so far and the wounded are similar to those we saw in Gaza. People who are crushed underneath the rubble, people who are injured in their homes. Around a third of the wounded are children. Blast injuries, crush injuries, shrapnel wounds."


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: robomatic
Date: 24 Oct 24 - 05:00 PM

I don't know whether we have any Islamic/ Palestinian folks in the forum, particularly whether they live in the 'battleground' State of Michigan, but I'm curious as to their election thinking. There have been some national news selected questioning of voters as to their thinking and apparently many have answered that they are anti-Biden and by extension anti-Harris, regardless of their perception of TRMP as perhaps more unreservedly pro-Israel and anti-Muslim, based on his Presidential track record 2016-2020.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 25 Oct 24 - 04:48 AM

Israel's war against free speech continues: three journalists covering Israel’s war on Lebanon were killed today in an apparent targeted Israeli strike on their accommodation in Lebanon’s southern Hasbaiyya area.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 25 Oct 24 - 05:39 AM

Further: "Local news station Al Jadeed aired footage from the scene — a collection of chalets that had been rented by various media outlets — showing collapsed buildings and cars marked "press" covered in dust and rubble."


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: robomatic
Date: 26 Oct 24 - 01:55 AM

Last night (24 October 2024) was Simchat Torah. This is one year by the Hebrew calendar from the attack by Iran's proxy terror organization Hamas. People are wondering if the timing is related to the current attacks that are apparently taking place on and in Iran. According to NBC news the US was informed that Iran's nuclear sites and oil production would not be directly attacked. (Proportional response?)
Only a couple days ago there was a story that details had been leaked of Israeli plans against Iran as a response to Iran's massive rocket attack a few weeks ago. It was not clear to me how much of that story was released as opposed to planted. But there are apparently real attacks going on right now.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 26 Oct 24 - 05:16 AM

Have to say I see nothing wrong with attacking missile launch bases.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Oct 24 - 10:45 AM

Those are the more reasonable ones they should have zeroed in on to begin with.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Jack Campin
Date: 29 Oct 24 - 09:17 AM

America's latest massacre. I tried posting a video (minimally edited, taken directly on the spot) from Reddit to FB and immediately got my account suspended. You might get away with passing on the Guardian's version.

Beit Lahiya, over 90 murdered


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Oct 24 - 09:52 AM

Israel's latest massacre, Jack. We can argue all day long about whether the US should or shouldn't arm Israel (it was my understanding that the type of weapons sent in the last 6-9 months are different than what has been used against Palestinians, so they can't be used against Palestinians) but no one in the US gave instructions to bomb anywhere. And many of us have hope that once the US election is over Biden will finally dope-slap Netanyahu and compel some compliance with his wishes that they form a cease fire.

Netanyahu has made a calculation about the US election - if Trump is elected, nothing bad happens to him. If he misbehaves and kills Palestinians he satisfies his hard right coalition partners and stays out of jail. Once it ends and his government is dissolved he is bound to end up with his trials completed and a prison sentence, so why not keep the war going?


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Jack Campin
Date: 29 Oct 24 - 10:27 AM

The one making the gamble is the US. They want Palestine's oil and gas, and the land to build the Ben-Gurion canal so they can bypass Egypt. They are betting that their rabid rottweiler garrison state can last long enough to achieve that. Netanyahu, Bennett, Smotrich and the gang are just footsoldiers - the American petrocracy will make sure that Harris or Trump will carry on taking orders no matter who the voters think they've chosen.

Hassan Nasrallah had it right. Getting angry at Israel is just silly. America is the enemy of humanity.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Oct 24 - 10:53 AM

No Jack. Every tribe had its day and its dark night.
Who suffers most is not the only determination of the most righteous.
In 1945 the Germans may have suffered the most. Everyone suffers in war.

I would agree with Stilly's last post.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Oct 24 - 11:07 AM

Palestine has oil and gas? Had to look that up.
All of this, of course, is aspirational. Right now, it’s downright impossible. Though the U.S. is reportedly pushing Israel to allow Palestinians to profit and build an independent energy system from offshore gas post-war, under Israeli occupation, Palestinians cannot drill for oil and gas. Many communities are not allowed to build out solar energy, either. Israel, on the other hand, hasn’t wasted time in claiming these dirty resources for itself. On October 29, its government approved 12 licenses for six companies to look for more gas fields offshore.

All the more reason for Netanyahu to hope Trump is elected, because the Democrats are trying to enact cleaner energy policies. Trump couldn't care less, as is shown with the land he removed from federal protections when he was in office before.

So if you want to blame the war on someone, blame it on Trump, a pawn for so many bad actors, not the US writ large.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 29 Oct 24 - 01:14 PM

https://soundcloud.com/denise_whittle/eyeless-in-gaza-song


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Oct 24 - 02:05 PM

Supurb Big Al.

May your underground stardom see the light, I know you do.
Your chords embody the spirit of your words.
I foresee an album of surprises in your future.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 29 Oct 24 - 02:19 PM

Thank you Donuel.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Oct 24 - 02:55 PM

Good song. Thanks.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 29 Oct 24 - 07:40 PM

Five more journalists killed, and a block of flats levelled with nearly 100 slaughtered.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 30 Oct 24 - 04:39 PM

America is now in the news for trying to broker "a temporary ceasefire" in Lebanon and Gaza. Why temporary? Does the US consider that it'd be a good thing for the killing of children and the destruction of towns (spreading asbestos which of course can blow inland to Israel too, causing hideous deaths by asbestosis) to continue after a bit of a breather?


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 31 Oct 24 - 05:55 AM

A reporter.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 01 Nov 24 - 06:38 AM

47 more people killed today, mostly women and children. The Israeli military said its troops had identified and eliminated "several armed terrorists" in central Gaza and had eliminated "dozens of terrorists" in targeted raids in northern Gaza's Jabalia area.
Meanwhile from last April, Mass graves in Gaza show victims’ hands were tied, says UN rights office


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 03 Nov 24 - 07:46 AM

50 children killed in 48 hours by Israel in attacks on apartment blocks in Gaza. UNICEF warns that the entire population of the region, especially children, is at imminent risk of dying from disease, famine and ongoing bombardment.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 03 Nov 24 - 08:25 AM

Watching a country disintegrate: Haaretz reporting that Eran Etzion, a former deputy head of Israel's National Security Council, is calling on Israeli soldiers to refuse illegal orders.
And the Guardian is reporting on legal complaints against an increasingly popular nationalist TV channel:

Among the examples presented in the legal complaint is a Channel 14 anchor threatening the “annihilation” of Palestinians, killing “numbers not seen before in Arab history”.
Another presenter, Shimon Riklin, said on 7 October of Palestinians in Gaza: “We should supply them with neither water nor electricity. Let them drop dead in there!” and tweeted: “Gaza should be wiped off the face of the earth.”
Danny Neuman, a member of Netanyahu’s Likud party and a regular Channel 14 panellist, said: “We should have killed 100,000 Gazans in the first two days.”
In a broadcast on 6 May, Neuman said: “A tiny few of them can be deemed human there. Ninety per cent are terrorists and ‘involved’!”


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 07:00 AM

On Nov. 6 Netanyahu got exactly what he wanted - Trump in office. That means he won't be stifled by the US (after Biden) - and will probably be able to keep himself out of prison. Both Trump and Biden had a common interest in keeping that war going. Still do.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 10:40 AM

”In a broadcast on 6 May, Neuman said: “A tiny few of them can be deemed human there. Ninety per cent are terrorists and ‘involved’!”

That sounds chillingly familiar - a common trope in 1930s/1940s Germany. Hopefully someone will have that comment on record when the leaders of the Israeli regime are tried in The Hague.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 01:00 PM

I think the really smart foreign leaders have recognized TRMP's ability to turn inside the radius of a dime in a fraction of a second. Also his tendency to let down / blackmail those who depend on him.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 04:38 PM

Presumably a tiny few are human in Lebanon too, like these

“The first victim I found was a child. I don't know if it's a girl or a boy,” he tells me afterwards. “Sorry to explain that. But it's from the stomach and up - from stomach and down there is nothing.”

In the past, the CDF crew have received phone calls telling them to evacuate a site they are attending. They assume they are from the Israelis. No such call comes on this day, so for an hour Samir and others dig deeper into the ruin.

Eventually they find a 10-year-old girl alive. She tells the rescuers that her eight-month-old brother, Mohammed, was next to her.

“After that, we started hearing the screaming of a small child,” Samir says.

and the 50 children killed last week in Gaza, and the babies who died alone in hospital after a forced evacuation this time last year.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 04:49 PM

Land grab: Israeli ground forces are getting closer to “the complete evacuation” of northern Gaza and residents will not be allowed to return home, the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) has said, in what appears to be the first official acknowledgment from Israel it is systematically removing Palestinians from the area.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 07 Nov 24 - 08:18 AM

Israel killed 40 since dawn in Lebanon (BBC World Service news has upgraded that to 55), and 27 in Gaza, as well as injuring UNIFIL observers in a targeted strike which killed three people in Lebanon.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 07 Nov 24 - 08:30 AM

Piece from the Guardian quoting Israeli-American historian Omer Bartov, professor of Holocaust and genocide studies at Brown, on whether what is happening in Gaza is a genocide.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 08 Nov 24 - 03:49 AM

Israel's economy is tanking, with foreign investment dried up, more than 85,000 people dropping out of the workforce and 250,000 more who have been displaced internally and lost both their jobs and their houses, and 46,000 business bankruptcies. The attacks on Gaza have cost Israel $67 billion so far.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 10 Nov 24 - 05:30 AM

Thirty people, 13 of them children, were killed as they slept in two Israeli strikes on homes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Nov 24 - 08:06 AM

It has never been clearer that media matters to democracy. Our country is deeply divided, and those divisions are also being exploited by bad actors looking to enrich themselves and undermine democracy by spreading disinformation. From Elon Musk to the Murdochs, a small number of billionaire owners have a powerful hold on so much of the information that reaches the public about what’s happening in the world.

Blowback is a bitch. In Amsterdam, there has been what is called
THE Jew Hunt.
In my country the attack on synagogues is largely underreported.
There are many tiny attacks


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 12 Nov 24 - 07:12 AM

Amsterdam - football hooligans (on both sides) gotta hoo.
The Maccabi hooligans were romping around throwing fireworks and tearing down Palestinian flags and chanting lovely things - one example went something like "No more schools in Gaza / All the kids are dead / Ole, ole, ole, ole…" Ajax hooligans then hunted and beat Maccabi fans.
All horrible.
Meanwhile…
I think I'm right in assuming that everyone here would shelter people from any group that was being hunted down.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Nov 24 - 09:56 AM

Netanyahu and his fellow bunch of murderous thugs should be facing the International Court of Justice in Den Haag, on war crimes charges at the very least.

Instead, Biden, Starmer, et al are kissing his arse.

Shameful, disgusting, unforgivable.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 13 Nov 24 - 12:48 AM

Poet Mosab Abu Toha fled his home with his wife and children. Now, in the US, they hear of the relentless killing of their relatives.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Nov 24 - 01:00 PM

I hope that now the election is over that Biden manages to put down a virtual/governmental spike strip to stop Netanyahu in his tracks.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 17 Nov 24 - 01:45 AM

Israel yesterday killed 21 civil defence rescuers, bringing the number of healthcare workers killed to 200. More than 3,300 people have been killed in Lebanon and more than 14,400 wounded by Israel in the last 13 months.
In Israel, extremist nationalists are welcoming Trump and his 'dream team' coming into power in the US.

Elizabeth Warren denounces Biden administration over Gaza humanitarian situation
Massachusetts senator now joins Bernie Sanders in endorsing joint resolution of disapproval against Joe Biden
David Smith in Washington
Thu 14 Nov 2024 20.24 CET
Share
Elizabeth Warren, a leading progressive voice in the US Senate, has denounced the Biden administration’s failure to punish Israel over the dire humanitarian situation in Gaza and endorsed a joint resolution of disapproval in Congress.
In Gaza an Israeli strike on a UN-run school sheltering disabled people in a refugee camp has killed 10 and wounded at least 20.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 17 Nov 24 - 03:41 AM

From Instagram: six of the ten killed on the Israeli attack on the civil defence centre in Baalbek. Everyone in this photo was killed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Raggytash
Date: 21 Nov 24 - 05:53 PM

I wonder what our American cousins will make of the news that Netanyahu and some of his cohorts have been indicted for alleged war crimes and warrants have been issued for their arrest.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Nov 24 - 07:03 AM

War crimes and Crimes Against Humanity.

Anyone up for starting a book on the odds against him ever facing the ICC?


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Neil D
Date: 22 Nov 24 - 03:07 PM

Those indictments are just window dressing since neither Israel nor the US are members of the ICC and won't acknowledge its authority.


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Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Nov 24 - 03:23 PM

According to BBC News Channel this afternoon, Netanyahu is now playing the ‘Anti-Semitic’ card, and Biden has backed him by declaring the ICC Arrest Warrant as ‘outrageous’.

What is happening now is precisely what many of us predicted when Israel unilaterally re-wrote the definition of Anti-semitism several years ago, to make it possible to claim any criticism of the Israeli regime is ‘Anti-Semitic’.

Disgraceful.


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