BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024

Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Jan 25 - 06:51 PM

With the death of former President Jimmy Carter come a lot of clips of interviews. One that had me scrambling to Bookfinder.com was hearing him interviewed about his 2007 book Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid. He was frank in his criticism of how the Israeli nation has been cruel to Palestinians on many fronts. From a New York Times obit:

He also encountered turbulence over the title of his book “Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid,” published in 2007. Alice Mayhew, the venerated nonfiction editor who worked with him on this and other books, tried to persuade him to not use the word apartheid. But he did not budge, and the book prompted a backlash from critics who saw it as incendiary and unfair to Israel. A longtime adviser resigned in protest, as did members of a community board at The Carter Center. He defended the book, but later lamented the friendships he had lost over it.

I think his vision was clear and again, ahead of his time. I've ordered a copy of this to read now, I think it will help in articulating just what all is going wrong with what Israel is doing to Palestinians.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Jan 25 - 09:18 AM

If you have an idea of what we can do about that, I think we'd all be interested.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Jan 25 - 09:15 AM

Do you think Mudcat people don't know that, that they need a reminder?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 31 Dec 24 - 10:44 AM

As New Year dawns, babies in Gaza are dying of cold and hunger.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 28 Dec 24 - 08:40 AM

NBC News: Israel burns northern Gaza’s last functioning hospital; patients and staff removed

Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 23 Dec 24 - 06:38 PM

Is it, though, Robo? Is Hamas not virtually wiped out now? Along with all the kids?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: robomatic
Date: 23 Dec 24 - 02:39 PM

It's under Hamas' control. They have decided to make mileage in this manner. And it is indeed horrible.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 23 Dec 24 - 12:19 PM

Palestinians are suing British Petroleum as the killing goes on.

"I am horrified by the mass killing of civilians in Gaza and I am disturbed the impact of this brutality on soldiers' mental health," writes Yoel Elizur, whose grandson has reassured him that he won't follow an illegal order, in a piece on the mental health of Israeli soldiers fighting in Gaza.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 21 Dec 24 - 07:32 PM

The IDF are targeting the Kamal Adwan Hospital, the intensive care unit and the incubators.

“And at some point we opened the window… and the stench was like a butchery… Like in the market, where it's not very clean.” Some IDF soldiers are turning away from the slaughter.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Dec 24 - 01:28 PM

War is instigated by armament salesman and the armament industry who fund US presidential campaigns, Both democrats and republicans were funded billions.
A LINK TO The Morning Star
https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/warfare-trumps-welfare-whoever-wins-us-election

How much GDP is Russia spending on the military?
List by the International Institute for Strategic Studies Top 15 Defence Budgets 2020
Rank        Country        % of GDP
6        Russia        5.86%

Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Dec 24 - 09:37 AM

War begets war from 1943 to now. From year 200 to now.
As Big Al and William say "Whereof what's past is prologue.".

Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 20 Dec 24 - 02:27 AM

Who else is going to supply them, robomatic? Israel has killed virtually all of the journalists in Gaza. Nobody can get in or out. Here's a pice by the BBC back when only 11,000 had been killed, on how the figures are collated.
On a personal note, I'm not glad that you find the image of Jesus feeding the 5,000, as an illustration of mass death, funny.
Here's a musical image for you: 45,000 people from the stage at Roskilde, photograph by Matthew Field.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: robomatic
Date: 19 Dec 24 - 03:34 PM

"The First Casualty in War is the Truth."

It is past time to acknowledge that the bulk of the casualty figures attributed to the situation have been supplied by Hamas, which is waging a WAR against Israel that Hamas itself started against civilians. A higher proportion of fighters/ terrorists are in that figure than Hamas has supplied, and quite probably a lower proportion of the weak and innocent (so depicted).

Only the information starved, willfully malicious, or partisan would repeat the word of the enemy.

Enjoyed the comparison of a tender New Testamentary image against the evil Israelis burning their innocent opponents. LOLZ

Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 18 Dec 24 - 04:56 AM

"Flames engulfed Ahmed bin Abdul Aziz school" in a "humanitarian area" designated by Israel in southern Gaza…
Israel has now slaughtered 45,000 people. Here's an image of Jesus feeding the 5,000 100 miles north of here; multiply the people in that image by 9 to see what 45,000 looks like.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: robomatic
Date: 16 Dec 24 - 07:20 PM

I've been wondering about Tice, too. Thiere was a haunting article on PBS about a prisoner who claimed to have seen Tice two years ago, and the reporter who took down the story retraced the physical description of the cell and it appeared to check out. This might be better off in the Syria thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 16 Dec 24 - 05:48 PM

An American mother has reliable information that her hostage son is held in Syria.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: robomatic
Date: 15 Dec 24 - 03:13 PM

Big Al, you are not alone. I feel you are spot on in your comments. EVERYTHING Hamas says or does or endorses is geared in terms of fighting a war. Their policy involves siting their aggressive forces in civilian areas inclduding schools and hospitals and officials that are interviewed there, including medical, are subject to repercussions if they say anything different than what they are instructed to say.

I distrust the United Nations reports.

I don't understand the definition of genocide that allows Israel to be accused of it while EVERY nation around her is most definitely practising selective attrition on such peoples as Yazidis, Kurds, Coptics, and Yemenis are impacted. To me, THAT is an abomination. And, where there are Jews, Hamas practised attrition on THEM. The timing was coordinated with preventing Israel from coming to terms with surrounding Arab states under the Abrahamic accords.

Meanwhile, what is going on in Gaza and Lebanon are acts of war, instigated not by Israel. If Hamas was not in charge of the Gazan side of things, hostages would have been released. The 'victim' list, whether it is Israeli/American hostages or Palestinian Gazans, is under Hamas' control.

And, of course, straying into the Syrian thread, if Israel were not making significant inroads into the Hezbollah/ Iran terrorist masters of Lebanon, Syria would still be under the boot of the Assad forces.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Dec 24 - 06:36 AM

As far as i know, its only twits like Norman Tebbit who believe in 'precision bombing'. I remember he called kate Adie a liar, because she was standing outside a hospital in Libya the US had bombed.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 15 Dec 24 - 04:49 AM

Civilians were certainly killed in the bombings of Dresden and Coventry. But were they the main target of the war? Were they the vast majority of those killed? Were unarmed and defenceless people being killed the main and obvious aim of the conflict?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Dec 24 - 07:19 PM

I haven't got a dog in this fight BWM.

However we take these truths to be self evident.

1)   In a war non combatants get killed. In a way Irael is in the same position as the US when it came to conquering Japan. They could have expended more of their own soldiers who had put their lives on the line for their country. Or they could do what they did in Hiroshima. I think most military leaders choose the shortest line between two points. I'm not saying its morally defensible - I just think that's what usually happens.

2) In 1967 when the first big Israeli /Arab conflict kicked off, Israel occupied a narrow atrip of land facing the Med. rather than granting them the land, the Arab nations swaggered about saying they would kick Israel into the sea, and then failed. Look at at all the states alligned and sworn to the destruction of Israel. They occupy great swathes of the earth, they are gifted with mineral wealth. And yet all their people are in poverty. They constantly have begging bowls out to countries like our own whom they consider decadent. Their governments are by words for corruption, and their human rights records stink.

Now I know the fashionable view is that Israel is an abombination. I just can't see it in the simplistic terms that that I get my ears boxed with evry day.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: keberoxu
Date: 14 Dec 24 - 07:13 PM

Why on earth
has this thread been provided with links
to threads about Marmite??

---

Because it was a case of opening an old thread to carry on a somewhat related discussion, instead of starting a new one. ---mudelf

Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Dec 24 - 06:16 PM

You think similar things weren't going on, on the ground when we were bombing Hamburg.

It might have been tallyho and angels at one o'clock for the RAF, but it must have been pretty hot for the citizens of Hamburg. War is all rules out of the window.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Dec 24 - 03:54 AM

”However there aren't boats full of Israelis fleeing their government and trying to enter Europe.”

Not sure I understand your point there, Al.

What you say is correct as far as it goes, but there are hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of displaced, non-combatant Gazan Palestinians trapped in their own country, largely denied the necessities of life, and trying to avoid the violence of the Israeli regime - violence on a huge scale, immensely disproportionate to the violence of the Hamas attack which started the whole shit-show and which gave Netanyahu the excuse he’d been looking for. This isn’t ‘self-defence’, it’s a land-grab and ethnic cleansing involving war-crimes and crimes against humanity.

However hard you try, there’s no way of putting a polish on this particular Israeli turd.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 14 Dec 24 - 03:30 AM

Big Al, this is not war, this is genocide. 7 in every 10 of those killed were either women or children.
Yesterday's atrocity: bombing a post office where people where taking shelter from the attacks. Among the 60 killed yesterday was the 193rd journalist targeted for death, along with her husband and family.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: robomatic
Date: 13 Dec 24 - 02:09 PM

Gonna try for this again:

A conversation about Israel / Palestine

I think it sheds some light on the situation. I brought it up before but someone gave it the William Barr treatment and suggested it was a trivial exchange. It was not, but it takes some listening time. Since then a rather repetitive one sided listing of tragedies has taken up a lot of space here, so why not give this a try?

I'm not suggesting it will change your mind, but it is there to provide insight, not conversion.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Dec 24 - 12:58 PM

As far as I know, there's no civilised way to wage war.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 13 Dec 24 - 09:44 AM

Big Al, I think you may have misunderstood. Here's the introduction of the piece on Mordechai's research:

A woman with a child is shot while waving a white flag
¦ Starving girls are crushed to death in line for bread
¦ A cuffed 62-year-old man is run over, evidently by a tank
¦ An aerial strike targets people trying to help a wounded boy
¦ A database of thousands of videos, photos, testimonies, reports and investigations documents the horrors committed by Israel in Gaza

Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Dec 24 - 04:43 PM

I'm sure Mordechai has. Always the soft target given the level of freedom of information in a relatively democratic state.

However there aren't boats full of Israelis fleeing their government and trying to enter Europe.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 12 Dec 24 - 03:42 AM

Historian Lee Mordechai has made a database of Israeli atrocities in Gaza. (Article from Haaretz.)

Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 11 Dec 24 - 05:12 PM

Muhammad Khalifa and seven of his family have been killed in an Israeli air strike on Gaza; just eight of the 44,000 people who have so far died in that way in the last year. Muhammad was one of the little lads brought to Ireland in 2016 and 2017 for soccer camp.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Nov 24 - 03:23 PM

According to BBC News Channel this afternoon, Netanyahu is now playing the ‘Anti-Semitic’ card, and Biden has backed him by declaring the ICC Arrest Warrant as ‘outrageous’.

What is happening now is precisely what many of us predicted when Israel unilaterally re-wrote the definition of Anti-semitism several years ago, to make it possible to claim any criticism of the Israeli regime is ‘Anti-Semitic’.

Disgraceful.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Neil D
Date: 22 Nov 24 - 03:07 PM

Those indictments are just window dressing since neither Israel nor the US are members of the ICC and won't acknowledge its authority.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Nov 24 - 07:03 AM

War crimes and Crimes Against Humanity.

Anyone up for starting a book on the odds against him ever facing the ICC?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Raggytash
Date: 21 Nov 24 - 05:53 PM

I wonder what our American cousins will make of the news that Netanyahu and some of his cohorts have been indicted for alleged war crimes and warrants have been issued for their arrest.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 17 Nov 24 - 03:41 AM

From Instagram: six of the ten killed on the Israeli attack on the civil defence centre in Baalbek. Everyone in this photo was killed.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 17 Nov 24 - 01:45 AM

Israel yesterday killed 21 civil defence rescuers, bringing the number of healthcare workers killed to 200. More than 3,300 people have been killed in Lebanon and more than 14,400 wounded by Israel in the last 13 months.
In Israel, extremist nationalists are welcoming Trump and his 'dream team' coming into power in the US.

Elizabeth Warren denounces Biden administration over Gaza humanitarian situation
Massachusetts senator now joins Bernie Sanders in endorsing joint resolution of disapproval against Joe Biden
David Smith in Washington
Thu 14 Nov 2024 20.24 CET
Share
Elizabeth Warren, a leading progressive voice in the US Senate, has denounced the Biden administration’s failure to punish Israel over the dire humanitarian situation in Gaza and endorsed a joint resolution of disapproval in Congress.
In Gaza an Israeli strike on a UN-run school sheltering disabled people in a refugee camp has killed 10 and wounded at least 20.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Nov 24 - 01:00 PM

I hope that now the election is over that Biden manages to put down a virtual/governmental spike strip to stop Netanyahu in his tracks.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 13 Nov 24 - 12:48 AM

Poet Mosab Abu Toha fled his home with his wife and children. Now, in the US, they hear of the relentless killing of their relatives.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Nov 24 - 09:56 AM

Netanyahu and his fellow bunch of murderous thugs should be facing the International Court of Justice in Den Haag, on war crimes charges at the very least.

Instead, Biden, Starmer, et al are kissing his arse.

Shameful, disgusting, unforgivable.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 12 Nov 24 - 07:12 AM

Amsterdam - football hooligans (on both sides) gotta hoo.
The Maccabi hooligans were romping around throwing fireworks and tearing down Palestinian flags and chanting lovely things - one example went something like "No more schools in Gaza / All the kids are dead / Ole, ole, ole, ole…" Ajax hooligans then hunted and beat Maccabi fans.
All horrible.
Meanwhile…
I think I'm right in assuming that everyone here would shelter people from any group that was being hunted down.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Nov 24 - 08:06 AM

It has never been clearer that media matters to democracy. Our country is deeply divided, and those divisions are also being exploited by bad actors looking to enrich themselves and undermine democracy by spreading disinformation. From Elon Musk to the Murdochs, a small number of billionaire owners have a powerful hold on so much of the information that reaches the public about what’s happening in the world.

Blowback is a bitch. In Amsterdam, there has been what is called
THE Jew Hunt.
In my country the attack on synagogues is largely underreported.
There are many tiny attacks

Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 10 Nov 24 - 05:30 AM

Thirty people, 13 of them children, were killed as they slept in two Israeli strikes on homes.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 08 Nov 24 - 03:49 AM

Israel's economy is tanking, with foreign investment dried up, more than 85,000 people dropping out of the workforce and 250,000 more who have been displaced internally and lost both their jobs and their houses, and 46,000 business bankruptcies. The attacks on Gaza have cost Israel $67 billion so far.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 07 Nov 24 - 08:30 AM

Piece from the Guardian quoting Israeli-American historian Omer Bartov, professor of Holocaust and genocide studies at Brown, on whether what is happening in Gaza is a genocide.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 07 Nov 24 - 08:18 AM

Israel killed 40 since dawn in Lebanon (BBC World Service news has upgraded that to 55), and 27 in Gaza, as well as injuring UNIFIL observers in a targeted strike which killed three people in Lebanon.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 04:49 PM

Land grab: Israeli ground forces are getting closer to “the complete evacuation” of northern Gaza and residents will not be allowed to return home, the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) has said, in what appears to be the first official acknowledgment from Israel it is systematically removing Palestinians from the area.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 04:38 PM

Presumably a tiny few are human in Lebanon too, like these

“The first victim I found was a child. I don't know if it's a girl or a boy,” he tells me afterwards. “Sorry to explain that. But it's from the stomach and up - from stomach and down there is nothing.”

In the past, the CDF crew have received phone calls telling them to evacuate a site they are attending. They assume they are from the Israelis. No such call comes on this day, so for an hour Samir and others dig deeper into the ruin.

Eventually they find a 10-year-old girl alive. She tells the rescuers that her eight-month-old brother, Mohammed, was next to her.

“After that, we started hearing the screaming of a small child,” Samir says.

and the 50 children killed last week in Gaza, and the babies who died alone in hospital after a forced evacuation this time last year.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 01:00 PM

I think the really smart foreign leaders have recognized TRMP's ability to turn inside the radius of a dime in a fraction of a second. Also his tendency to let down / blackmail those who depend on him.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 10:40 AM

”In a broadcast on 6 May, Neuman said: “A tiny few of them can be deemed human there. Ninety per cent are terrorists and ‘involved’!”

That sounds chillingly familiar - a common trope in 1930s/1940s Germany. Hopefully someone will have that comment on record when the leaders of the Israeli regime are tried in The Hague.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel & Hamas & gaza strip 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 07:00 AM

On Nov. 6 Netanyahu got exactly what he wanted - Trump in office. That means he won't be stifled by the US (after Biden) - and will probably be able to keep himself out of prison. Both Trump and Biden had a common interest in keeping that war going. Still do.