Lyr Req: The fourteenth day of February

Subject: Lyr Req: The fourteenth day of February
From: GUEST,Alan
Date: 28 Nov 12 - 06:42 AM

I'm working on the songs Ralph Vaughan Williams noted in King's Lynn, Norfolk, UK, in 1905 and cannot find lyrics for several titles despite extensive research. Can anyone help please?
NB: RVW noted that this was NOT 'Bold Princess Royal'

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The fourteenth day of February
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 28 Nov 12 - 12:59 PM

That last remark is interesting Alan because the Roud index assigns it #528, which is The Bold Princess Royal group!

Mick

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The fourteenth day of February
From: GUEST,Alan
Date: 28 Nov 12 - 02:11 PM

Thanks Mick. I might just come around to agreeing with Roud and stop looking. It's just that the tune is a good one and definitely NOT BPR.
Alan

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The fourteenth day of February
From: GUEST,John Moulden
Date: 28 Nov 12 - 03:05 PM

If it's not the Bold Princess Royal might it be the song that Sam Henry printed as The French Privateer and which Roud confuses with The Dolphin whereas it is cognate with the song Robert Cinnamond sang as The Irish Proivateer and Father Joseph Ranson Collected in Wexford and called The Spanish Privateer - English ballad sheets called The Spanish Snow, The Spanish Noah, The Spanish Nore and British Bravery. It deals with a Belfast based privateer called The Amazon which was fought only once and was wrecked on a lee shore on returning from that battle - c. 1780.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The fourteenth day of February
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 28 Nov 12 - 03:22 PM

Alan
Check out 'The Battle of Bourassa' on the Bodl.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The fourteenth day of February
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 28 Nov 12 - 03:36 PM

That looks like a possibility Steve! Here's a direct link to the large image: Battle of Bourassa.

Mick

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The fourteenth day of February
From: Matthew Edwards
Date: 28 Nov 12 - 04:26 PM

There is another possibility:- Alf Peachey, of Framsden, Suffolk was recorded by Neil Lanham in the 1960s singing a song called 'Blow Ye Winds' or 'Blow Ye Winds In The Morning', Roud #2012, which has the opening line "On the fourteenth day of February, way down the southern seas".

I haven't got a copy of the recording so I have no idea whether it could be the song you're looking for.

Matthew

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The fourteenth day of February
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 28 Nov 12 - 04:37 PM

The big problem with songs that have a date as the opening line is this can vary enormously in just one song in oral tradition. I remember one song I was researching about 20 oral versions of this type of opening and in every version the date was different.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The fourteenth day of February
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 28 Nov 12 - 04:41 PM

Re: John's suggestions above, they seem to start with the wrong dates: 18th November (Cinnamond), 26th April (Ranson), 18th April (2xFrench Privateer), 14th April (French Privateer). I'd be less inclined in this direction (though with the variety of dates you couldn't exclude 14th February!).

Matthew's suggestion sounds like a good one to look at, though.

Mick

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The fourteenth day of February
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 28 Nov 12 - 04:45 PM

(Cross-posted with Steve on the dates there)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The fourteenth day of February
From: Gurney
Date: 28 Nov 12 - 04:55 PM

A possible variant of the one Matthew notes starts:

On the 14 day of February, the weather being clear,
We spied seven sail of Turkish men-o-war, belonging to Algier,
To me right-fol-leather-ol, right-fol-leather-ol,
Right-fol-leather-ol day,
Fol the riddle day, fol the riddle day, to me right-fol-leather-ol day.
and finishes:
Two we sunk, and two we burned, and two they run away,
and one we towed to (Plymouth, Bristol) town to show we won the day.
Ch.
If anybody should enquire to know our captain's name,
his name is Thomas/William Bellfounder/Carpenter, from Bristol town he came.


Can't remember what it was named. It was in a thread within the last six months.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The fourteenth day of February
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 28 Nov 12 - 05:24 PM

If it is John's song then it would be of interest to me as oral versions have hitherto not been found in England although that's where most of the broadsides were printed.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The fourteenth day of February
From: Gurney
Date: 28 Nov 12 - 06:18 PM

OK, Steve. I've found the words we sang, and I'll put on a Lyric Add thread.
It was actually 'The 25th of February,' at least that is the name that the guy I got it from used. As you said earlier, dates are a problem, and I folk-processed this one myself.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The fourteenth day of February
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 29 Nov 12 - 05:24 PM

That's a much older song, Gurney. It dates back to 1669 and is Roud 2433, the Royal Oak/Turkish Man of War/Captain Mansfield's Fight etc.
The Irish song happened in 1779 and that's the one I wanted English oral versions of. But thanks anyway.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The fourteenth day of February
From: GUEST,Alan
Date: 04 Dec 12 - 05:00 PM

This is RVW's 1905 KING'S LYNN MS in abc

X:1
T:"The 14th Day of Feb / Not BPR"
C:Trad
M:4/8
L:1/16
K:D
ABc|d3Be2dB|A2F2D2FG|A2GED2E2|D6A2|
F2A2d2e2|f2d2-2d2|e2d2c2B2|A6A2|
F2A2d2e2|f2d2-2A2|B2e2dcBA|d6DE|
F2A2B2e2|d2A2-2G2|A2E2G2F2|D6||

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The fourteenth day of February
From: Paul Davenport
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 06:16 AM

Pretty sure that the folk band, 'Crucible' recorded this on their second album. (They appear to have been trawlers of the Kings Lynn workhouse songs. (See Gav Davenport's 'Brief Lives CD )

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The fourteenth day of February
From: GUEST,Alan
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 01:01 PM

In reply to Matthew Edwards of 28.11.2012 -

I think you're on to something there. The CD is 'Out with me gun in the morning' on Steeple Bumpstead, and Alf Peachy sings 'Blow ye winds'. I've not managed to find out if the lyrics to that song fit the 76 76 x2 patern of RVW's tune and if any one has the words I'd kill for a peep. Might even by them a beer some time.

In the mean time, Stan Hugil (Shanties of the Seven Seas) has, on p222 under the title 'Blow, ye winds' a first line -

'Twas on a Sunday morning, down 'cross the Southern Sea'

That could so easily become

'On the fourteenth day of February, way down the southern seas'

if you're 70 years old and a strange, posh man is making you nervous by trying to write down a song you haven't sung for ages. It's even possible that Alf's song is related to Stan's.

Thanks for the idea Matthew. I'll keep chasing.

Alan :-)>

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The fourteenth day of February
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 02:07 PM

The Roud index offers few choices for songs with fourteenth day of February. Almost all are versions of The Princess Royal, except for the Alf Peachey Blow Ye Winds/Blow Ye Winds In The Morning and The Exeter Man-of-war (broadside in Steve Roud's collection).

It may be interesting to know that RVW did collect a song in Essex (Dec 4 1903 from Charles Pottipher) under the title Brave Boys Never Fear (On The Fourteenth Day of February). So he may have had that name in mind. According to the index however, the song is a version of The Princess Royal. I don't have a copy to see how the tunes compare.

Mick