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Lyr Req: Near Scarborough Town

GUEST,Alan 28 Nov 12 - 06:45 AM
Paul Davenport 28 Nov 12 - 06:58 AM
Nigel Parsons 28 Nov 12 - 07:24 AM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 28 Nov 12 - 08:02 AM
GUEST,Alan 28 Nov 12 - 10:26 AM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 28 Nov 12 - 11:29 AM
GUEST,Alan 28 Nov 12 - 12:04 PM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 28 Nov 12 - 12:40 PM
Kevin Sheils 28 Nov 12 - 12:44 PM
GUEST,Alan 28 Nov 12 - 01:16 PM
GUEST 28 Nov 12 - 01:17 PM
Paul Davenport 28 Nov 12 - 06:09 PM
Kevin Sheils 29 Nov 12 - 02:53 AM
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Subject: Lyr Req: Near Scarborough Town
From: GUEST,Alan
Date: 28 Nov 12 - 06:45 AM

I'm working on the songs Ralph Vaughan Williams noted in King's Lynn, Norfolk, UK, in 1905 and cannot find lyrics for several titles despite extensive research. Can anyone help please?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Near Scarborough Town
From: Paul Davenport
Date: 28 Nov 12 - 06:58 AM

Have you looked at RVW's notebooks? You can also use the Bodleian Broadsides online collection for words (which is pretty much what he intended - rarely wrote down words believing that they could be found on broadsides) The other useful tool is the Roud index which is available on the EFDSS website and will allow you to locate other versions of the songs.So, for example, 'Near Scarborough Town' is Roud 185 which is a version of 'Stowe Brow' or 'The Drowned Lover' . There are versions from all over UK as well as Newfoundland. If RVW did not write the words down then you're not going to get his exact version. I've worked extensively with his notes over the past seven years and share the frustrations that you probably feel.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Near Scarborough Town
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 28 Nov 12 - 07:24 AM

Bodleian Broadsides Collection


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Near Scarborough Town
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 28 Nov 12 - 08:02 AM

Here's the source info from Roud for that version:

Ralph Vaughan Williams MSS Collection (British Library 54191) Vol.3, MS bk 6, p.238 (Copy in VWML microfilm 212)

The index says that it was the music only.

RVW collected two other version of this: one from Hampshire (printed in Palmer, Bushes and Briars - Folk Songs Collected by Ralph Vaughan Williams) and one from Rollesby, Norfolk.


Mick


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Near Scarborough Town
From: GUEST,Alan
Date: 28 Nov 12 - 10:26 AM

Thanks Paul, for the info and sympathy.

I have a copy of that BL MS in front of me. The only words on it are

"(2) Near Scarborough town sung by Mr W Enery at the Crown Inn"

I think RVW could have gone by train to Sheringham (Possible in 1905, not now) on Thursday January 12th as

a)Very few, possibly only 2, songs were noted on that day

b)There is a 'Crown Inn' there and has been for a while (though they don't reply to e-mails!)

c) The MS of 'Come Nancy, will you marry me' has written on it "Sung at Sheringham - Norfolk Jan 12th 1905" and "By B Jackson at the level crossing" or so it reads to me.

Do you have any ideas on that score?

I also have a copy of Roy Palmer's 'Folk Songs collected by Ralph Vaughan Williams' which does not include 'Near Scarborough Town'.
Is 'Bushes and Briars-Folk Songs collected by Ralph Vaughan Williams' a different book?

Alan


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Near Scarborough Town
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 28 Nov 12 - 11:29 AM

The Palmer book is the same as the one you have Alan. The Hampshire version collected, and printed in Palmer, was under the title The Drowned Sailor.

RVW collected only the tune according to the Roud index (most of the songs you've requested were listed as music only I think; I was getting ready to go out earlier so I didn't make a note of which had words. But if you have the mss copied you'll have all the words RVW collected. Anything else you'll have to fill in from other sources).



Mick


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Near Scarborough Town
From: GUEST,Alan
Date: 28 Nov 12 - 12:04 PM

Thanks a lot Mick. I can fit the 'Drowned Sailor' into 'Near Scarborough Town' and the churchyard in Robin Hood's Bay is close enough to Scarborough to do the job nicely.
Another job jobbed!
Alan


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Near Scarborough Town
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 28 Nov 12 - 12:40 PM

If you want versions that mention Scarborough in particular there's plenty of choice: Sam Larner and Harry Cox recorded versions that used it, the version in Purslow's The Constant Lovers does (which I've got), Greig-Duncan has a lot of versions (some with Scarberry Town) (I've got these too I think), John Howson published a version in Songs Sung In Suffolk called just Scarborough (recording also on Veteran), Ord has a version in Bothy Ballads(I have this too), Seamus Ennis and Peter Kennedy also recorded versions for the BBC (some from Norfolk). I'll stop there (50-odd of the 90-odd version in Roud).

Mick


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Near Scarborough Town
From: Kevin Sheils
Date: 28 Nov 12 - 12:44 PM

Sam Larner of Winterton Norfolk had a version, probably as close geographically you'll get the RVW collected one, although I'm not sure how close musically.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Near Scarborough Town
From: GUEST,Alan
Date: 28 Nov 12 - 01:16 PM

Thanks Kevin, but I've sorted that one with a recording even closer to King's Lynn than Winterton. see my post to Mick.
Cheers


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Near Scarborough Town
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Nov 12 - 01:17 PM

Even better Mick! Thanks. I've just listened to Harry & Ben Baxter singing in the pub at Southrepps for Kennedy and Ennis in about 1952 (Norfolk Village Songs and Dances) and their version fits the RVW-KL tune even closer.
I met a chap, Ted, at the Southrepps Harvest Supper a few years ago who was there at that recording. I arranged to meet him in the pub next day and he showed me a photo of Kennedy in the same pub! Ted knew the Baxter brothers, one of whom was landlord at the time of the recording.
Thanks for all your help.
Alan


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Near Scarborough Town
From: Paul Davenport
Date: 28 Nov 12 - 06:09 PM

Tell you what though Alan. This is just the sort of exercise that can be a life-changing experience. More people should travel down this particular road. It seems to be exactly what RVW intended to do as evidenced by his lack of concern over the words. What is often revealed is a body of beautiful songs that are given context by your search and discoveries. Best of luck.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Near Scarborough Town
From: Kevin Sheils
Date: 29 Nov 12 - 02:53 AM

Yes Alan Harry is closer than Sam!

As Paul says these are great roads to travel and good fun as well.


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