Review: Julie Felix at Stourbridge Folk Club

Subject: RE: Review: Julie Felix at Stourbridge Folk Club
From: RobbieWilson
Date: 07 Dec 12 - 09:26 PM

I came into this thread to get an idea of how the JF gig had gone. I was saddened, for her, because I think she is a wonderful performer, who I have seen at festivals a couple of times in the last 5 years and one of whose records I had 35 years ago.

However, this was the first gig this club put on, it was run in opposition to a singers club I go to every Tuesday despite our stated missgivings, it was on a Tuesday night, the only place I saw it mentioned was in local "folk" (singers) clubs and Desi's newsletter (Desi attends one or two of these local singers clubs).

Without wishing to poke any dead Horses, I'm not sure who these folkies the OP is berating are. I know of lots of guitarry singers clubs locally, and two folky concert clubs within 5 miles of Katie Fitzgerald's, who I suspect would see Stourbridge as competition for a dwindling market. Who did she expect to turn out to watch Julie Felix on a Tuesday night in November? As Desi mentioned earlier the Newhampton club, 5 miles away, has a long track record of putting on top folk names ( Watersons, Carthy, Dansaul, Gaughan, Garbutt, Morton( Pete and Eddy, Bogle) to name just a few personal favourites, is struggling to sell tickets on a Saturday night what convinced Sanjay he was going to sell a load on a Tuesday? If he had asked me, at either of the local clubs I attend each week I would have told him "only occassionally and not this week.

Katie Fitzgerald's ( the venue) is a pub run by a prominent local musiscian, Eddy Morton, once leader of the fabulous Bushbury Mountain Daredevils. It used to, may still, have a session on a Wednesday night and is a great venue for something like this. Sadly it is about 5 miles away from me with no way home late other than driving so I only went once, when I had a lift. It was great but has good beer and is a drive away so no use for me on a week day.

Before you start slagging off the "folkies" of this area perhaps you should think about how this sale was researched, promoted, marketed and whether loyalty was being built or challenged.

Subject: RE: Review: Julie Felix at Stourbridge Folk Club
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 07 Dec 12 - 05:56 PM

There's also a competition element in bigger cities and towns - what are any competing attractions tonight? In smaller more rural venues there's a better chance sometimes of atracting an audience if it's about the only thing that's happened locally in living memory ------ or the last couple of weeks!
Certain events that my friends and I have put on have been bedevilled by some other great attraction on the same night, which we only became aware of a few weeks before ours - which had been planned months ahead. No matter how well you research this, you will inevitably get caught out on occasion through no fault of your own.

Subject: RE: Review: Julie Felix at Stourbridge Folk Club
From: matt milton
Date: 07 Dec 12 - 10:25 AM

I think there's a lot to be said by starting with a "name". But start with a name who's a safe bet. A folk-club-circuit safe bet name. Like Martin Carthy, John Kirkpatrick or someone. I'm not sure Julie Felix quite fits into that category.

Subject: RE: Review: Julie Felix at Stourbridge Folk Club
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 07 Dec 12 - 08:25 AM

I can see there is a cleft stick here. Do you start quietly and build up till you can afford a "name"? In which case you may not get people to come. If you start with a "name" you've got to spend bucks and hope it attracts enough people. Shame this didn't work.

RtS

Subject: RE: Review: Julie Felix at Stourbridge Folk Club
From: matt milton
Date: 07 Dec 12 - 08:21 AM

"once you have been caught a couple of times you tend to give unknown artists a miss"

But, thanks to YouTube and SoundCloud and the like, nobody ever needs to "be caught": you never need to pay to see someone you haven't heard. I can't remember the last time I went to a gig to see someone I hadn't already checked out on YouTube.

I've also found that free-entry gigs get, paradoxically, a much worse turn out than cheap, normal or even expensively priced ones. I'm sure people fully intend to turn up .... right until it actually comes to leaving the house. Then they simply can't be bothered. Generally, I think people turn up to things they want to turn up to. The trick is to convince people to actually go and listen to the performer in advance.

Or book certain acts as a support act first; then as main act 6 months or a year later.

Subject: RE: Review: Julie Felix at Stourbridge Folk Club
From: GUEST,Breedlove OF
Date: 07 Dec 12 - 06:31 AM

We have always found Guest Nights difficult, I think in part this is due to having to charge an entrance fee. Personally I wouldn't blame anyone for not wanting to pay between £5 to £10, for someone they have never heard of. The Biog's offerred by Artists and Organisers alike are notoriously overstated and once you have been caught a couple of times you tend to give unknown artists a miss.

So how about the idea of making entrance to your guest nights free, and asking all those present to make a sensible contribution to the Artist concerned depending on how much they enjoyed their performance. Its not ideal I know, and it wouldn't work in big clubs, but it may be the only way of continuing Guest Booking in the smaller and dare I say it average Folk Club..

Subject: RE: Review: Julie Felix at Stourbridge Folk Club
From: matt milton
Date: 07 Dec 12 - 02:16 AM

"sometimes it's "never heard of him/her/them so I won't bother going", which could be a bit of a blinkered view"

I think folk clubs should never rest on their laurels: remember to educate your regulars about someone who might be new to them. Put up posters with an eye-catching image of said performer well in advance (with a clear website URL on it). Hand out fliers explaining who he/she is.

I guess it helps to have a regularly updated website that you're confident your regulars look at.

Subject: RE: Review: Julie Felix at Stourbridge Folk Club
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 08:33 PM

Just back from a folk club, where in common with many it seems, people sometimes seem less willing to come out for a guest night than for the intervening singaround/session nights. Tonight's guest night was well attended, but we have also had some pretty thin nights. Tonight's guests themselves made the same comment about guest nights at a club that they run. Part of it seems to be having less chance of active participation, but sometimes it's "never heard of him/her/them so I won't bother going", which could be a bit of a blinkered view.
As for Julie Felix, I wonder just how well-known she is these days particularly among the "younger generation" - which could include anyone who wasn't into the folk scene back in the 60s/70s? Although I enjoyed her singing back then and still have one of her LPs, she sort of vanished off my radar for years until about 3 or 4 yeras ago when she came to another club I go to. While she put in a warm and spirited performance, I'm afraid her voice is not what it used to be (unless she had a sore throat that day!): it was very croaky and harsh, not very easy on the ear at all. (Sorry!)

Subject: RE: Review: Julie Felix at Stourbridge Folk Club
From: Betsy
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 07:38 PM

I'm going to he Zoo tomorrow ...........

Subject: RE: Review: Julie Felix at Stourbridge Folk Club
From: Mr Red
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 09:33 AM

how many post did it take for someone to post a link?
This forum is free publicity.
and publicists visit and use the information they find. Don't I?

It is another conduit for publicity, but it reaches listmeisters who haven't been contacted yet. Have I?

free publicity is worth every penny you didn't have to spend.

Thanx 4 the link BTW

The venue has a long history of music and folk music sessions.

Subject: RE: Review: Julie Felix at Stourbridge Folk Club
From: GUEST,Banjiman
Date: 02 Dec 12 - 04:29 PM

I guess you just have to put some effort into the things you like and think are right.

I really enjoy small, intimate (acoustic if possible) gigs of high quality.

Hence my involvement in Folk21 and hence why I organise small concerts. We've usually done OK (though it has been tough this year).

Don't care if it's called a folk club or not ..... I'd rather not listen to a succession of mediocre floor singers at these concerts though.

That's for singarounds ...... when I'm one of them!

Subject: RE: Review: Julie Felix at Stourbridge Folk Club
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Dec 12 - 02:57 PM

the thing is Will, we had it easy - the club acts we had to watch - whether traddy or contemporary were better than the festival acts nowadays. Abd those club acts were inspirational - they gave the kids like us, something to aspire to.

No dispespect - but Mike Harding or mike Tyson playing the sounds - its hard to see the BBC doing anything over and above what it always does. but at least Harding knew abit about what constituted folk music. He came from the same club scene we did, where instrumental and performance ability was revered and seen as part of the desired creative package.

If you contrast the sounds you get out of a four string guitar with the way Seth Lakeman gives it welly. To me, its no contest. But the kids aren't getting to see guys like you.

The present club and open mic. system scene is vibrant, but it is impoverished by the lack of people of really good ability. One thing I do remember is that, in my day, guys like Taff Thomas, even though he had successful club act - ran a singers club. So did Ewan MacColl. Seasoned pro's used to turn up on singers nights and make a contribution.

Lets hope Sunjay can revive this. A lot of pro's somehow think they are being exploited if they are asked to do floorspots. I guess sometimes they are, but without their example - youngsters won't learn folksinger 101.

Subject: RE: Review: Julie Felix at Stourbridge Folk Club
From: GUEST,Breedlove OF
Date: 02 Dec 12 - 11:53 AM

To Will Fly. To be honest Will I sort of agree with you. Guest Booking is probably not the only way, or indeed even the best way to sustain Folk for future generations. That is something Folk 21 will have to wrestle with, and maybe draw their own conclusions as whether it should be part of the their objectives or not. They clearly feel that there is a problem, why else would they have gone to all the trouble they have.

In many ways, like you, I would argue that Folk Clubs should be more about singarounds, sessions, and general participation by all, probably the best hands on way of passing thing on. Guest Nights may, in fact, be part of the problem, not part of the answer?

Subject: RE: Review: Julie Felix at Stourbridge Folk Club
From: GUEST,Desi C
Date: 02 Dec 12 - 08:20 AM

To Noreen and anyone interested. I have a widely read Folk and acoustic e.mail newsletter which includes a full list of Clubs and what's/when on which goes out weekly and is read as far away as Australia. We mainly concentrate on what's on in the Black Country, Staffordshire and Birmingham area. If anyone would like to subscribe it's all free just drop me a mail saying Subscribe to me Desi on [e-mail]. Happy to hear from performers=, fans, clubs alike

Subject: RE: Review: Julie Felix at Stourbridge Folk Club
From: Will Fly
Date: 02 Dec 12 - 05:48 AM

Breedlove OF - you raise a very interesting set of points. I had no idea of the objectives of Folk21, so I took a look at the website and had a read - very enlightening. As you say, their emphasis is on sustaining a level of folk venues at which guest artists can be booked, with a network of club organisers, agents and artists at the heart of it all. I can't see anything wrong with that.

However, I note you use the sentence, "Their view was that too many of these clubs have disappeared, and if the current trends continue there will no way of passing Folk and Traditional Music to the next generation." [My italics]

Well, with respect, I think I might take a slight issue with that one. I think that the ways in which the music is passed on are many and varied - of course from clubs like those quoted by Folk21, but also by singarounds, by sessions, by open mics, by social gatherings and friendships, by virtual sources such as stuff on Spotify, by recorded music, and by printed and physical collections. I don't see it dying at all, though I think that we have to accept that folk music is and will continue to be a strand of music usually outside the mainstream, with occasional bumps and prominences into the briefly fashionable from time to time. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

The real passing on of music from one generation to another, IMHO, takes place at informal mixed gatherings of people. Our last session at the Bull in Ditchling on Sunday had people of all ages and skills, from a fierce young fiddler of 19 or so to a hoary old guitarist/mandolin player like me. We had a great time - and the most common sentence I heard throughout the evening was, "That was a great tune - what was it called?" To me, that's a really important way in which music gets passed on up and down the generations.

And, again with respect to the laudable aims of Folk21, not perhaps what an evening with Julie Felix would have done.

Subject: RE: Review: Julie Felix at Stourbridge Folk Club
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Dec 12 - 08:24 PM

http://www.stourbridgefolkclub.com/

Subject: RE: Review: Julie Felix at Stourbridge Folk Club
From: GUEST,Breedlove OF
Date: 01 Dec 12 - 05:44 PM

Noreen, I apologise if you find the original post alittle too direct, but consider the following
a) As I understand things Folk 21 came into being to encourage the continued existence of "Guest Booking Folk Clubs", their words not mine. Their view was that too many of these clubs have disappeared, and if the current trends continue there will no way of passing Folk and Traditional Music to the next generation.
b) Sunjay tries his level best to do that and for what ever reason is badly let down

I think there are two folk worlds out there, one surrounding singers nights, singarounds sessions etc, and I would agree they are onr whole well supported. They are economical to organise and attend, and tend to be very social. The other being Concert Nights, not the same animal I'm afraid especially in these rather tough times. This is the area I see as ailing. If that were not true what reason would there be for Folk 21?

My experience from having run a club is that too many people vote with their feet on Guest Nights

Subject: RE: Review: Julie Felix at Stourbridge Folk Club
From: Noreen
Date: 01 Dec 12 - 04:16 PM

I strongly object to the tone of the original posting. I would love to support a new local folk club and think highly of Sunjay, but:-

1. I had never heard of this club before reading about it on this thread
2. I wouldn't want to hear Julie Felix
3. £10 is a lot to pay for an unknown/new setup in an unknown(to me) venue
4. I STILL can't find the information I'm looking for that might encourage me to go: this thread mentions singers' nights, and I can find the dates from the pub's website, but I'd like to know more. Surely one of the first and best ways to spread information about a new folk club is to set up a website, the address of which can be circulated so easily- on the Mudcat, for example?

When I Google 'Stourbridge Folk Club' it only brings up information about the pub where it's held; this sounds like the pub is a concert venue for folk events; not what I think of as a folk club.

Perhaps trying to get local folkies involved and finding out what they want, would be better than criticising after the event?

Subject: RE: Review: Julie Felix at Stourbridge Folk Club
From: breezy
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 06:21 PM

a midweek club is a no no for me as a one time organiser. been there tried it struggled.

If there are open mike nights on the same night then thats a bad sign.

Subject: RE: Review: Julie Felix at Stourbridge Folk Club
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 06:09 PM

Yes, good luck Sunjay. Don't lose heart, it can take quire a few club nights to get on the calendar. Publicity, publicity, publicity.

Subject: RE: Review: Julie Felix at Stourbridge Folk Club
From: GUEST,Desi C
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 03:37 PM

Very surprising. But one possible reason might be the haste in which the club opened i.e the pub had invited anyone interested to start a folk night. I was semi interested myself. But on asking around the opinion was it hadn't been doing too well recently, and was a bit too far away for me. And within a few days I saw that Sunjay had agreed to run it and was advertising Julie as it's opening night. The Newhampton a club in Wolverhampton the only near club in the area has had real problems selling tickets in recent months, as have booking clubs in general. I did fear a big name guest so soon (within a week)in an area badly hit by Government cuts might be risky. Mightn have been a good idea to have had a couple of Singers nights or local guests night first to get it established. And that is planned for it's next night so let's hope it gets much more support. Sunjay is a very talented and worth going to see alone. I think from it's Facebook page quite a few have already said they plan to be there. Good luck Sunjay, keep it going
P.S might be woth saying, there are at least two Tues night open mic clubs in Stourbridge already

Subject: RE: Review: Julie Felix at Stourbridge Folk Club
From: Will Fly
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 02:02 PM

it seems to me that the Folk Scene is ailing.

Well, it isn't. Look at this: Sussex Folk Guide

Most of these events will be well attended - so, without wishing to be rude, your benchmark is wrongly set.

Three years ago, I put on/promoted a concert by the American guitarist Duck Baker - one of the most original and inventive and original fingerstyle guitarists in the world - in a small theatre in Hurstpierpoint in Sussex. I printed posters and fliers and tickets, got the local bookshop to be the box office, stood in the High Streets of several villages to hand out fliers, travelled to all the folk clubs in a 25 mile radius to drop off fliers, cajoled and begged everyone I knew to buy tickets, papered local shops, put ads in the local folk diaries... etc., etc.

I managed to fill an 85-seat theatre at the very last minute. I broke even and, with sponsorship from a local guitar shop, even made a modest profit. Many of the people I spoke to said, "Who's Duck Baker?" - to which I would reply, "Oh - only one of the most original and inventive and original fingerstyle guitarists in the world".

The lesson I learned was: To get a successful event, you have to work BLOODY hard - particularly for a one-off or a first-time event. Take no prisoners. Leave no stone unturned. Take nothing for granted. Sunjay - if you're listening - some free experience for you. :-)

Subject: RE: Review: Julie Felix at Stourbridge Folk Club
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 01:53 PM

Ian Gill

Bad luck/bad timing - who knows? I remember a conversation I had with Tony Rose when he was talking about the Bandoggs days, their agent had arranged a UK tour to promote the record ["which we only made because we hadn't got any gigs"] He told me the first or second gig was in Manchester and about 12 people turned up - because Julie Felix was on in town the same night!

Funny old world...

Subject: RE: Review: Julie Felix at Stourbridge Folk Club
From: GUEST,Banjiman
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 12:51 PM

As someone involved in Folk21 and living in North Yorks I have to say it would be a long way to go however much I wanted to support Sunjay in person.

We are helping him financially, physically (by attending) and in other ways for his next events.

Having spoken to Sunjay, a particular set of circumstances and just plain bad luck seem to have blighted his opening night.

Fair play to him for continuing. He should now be set up for long term success.

Subject: RE: Review: Julie Felix at Stourbridge Folk Club
From: GUEST,Breedlove OF
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 12:38 PM

The Stourbridge club sprang from the new Folk 21 group, who were formed to try and halt the decline in guest booking folk clubs. In response to that it was quite refreshing to hear that Sunjay was opening a new club, and he received many plaudits from Folk 21 for trying to do that. What is so disappointing is that in spite much promotion and hard work by Sunjay, none of the Folk 21 people or their friends turned up to ensure his first night was a success. So using that as a bench mark, it seems to me that the Folk Scene is ailing.

Subject: RE: Review: Julie Felix at Stourbridge Folk Club
From: Mr Red
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 08:36 AM

well pardon me for publicising any and all who get in touch.
cresby.com
But I didn't get a hint of this and I do go looking for info.

There are many aspects to running events, and publicity is one of them. A big one. There are many methods of getting free publicity. Local radio (Radio WM), there is (AFAIK) a community station in Stourbridge. Libraries, shops and TIC's take posters. Here in Stroud it is common to see people hand out leaflets near the Farmers Market (which is buzzing with people every Saturday).

And as publicist for Stroud Ceilidhs (despite the clever stunts I pull on occasions) I can see numbers dwindling , it is a function of the recession we experience.

Thankyou bankers one and all!

Subject: RE: Review: Julie Felix at Stourbridge Folk Club
From: Jack Campin
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 08:16 AM

Apache tab
Apache staff notation
bass and rhythm guitar parts here

I've always liked that tune. I think I'd rather listen to a Shadows cover band than see Julie Felix again, too.

Subject: RE: Review: Julie Felix at Stourbridge Folk Club
From: Will Fly
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 07:48 AM

Ah yes - that was a staple! Everyone up and dancing - every time.

Subject: RE: Review: Julie Felix at Stourbridge Folk Club
From: johncharles
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 07:34 AM

I hope this one was squeezed into the Fly club set.

apache

Subject: RE: Review: Julie Felix at Stourbridge Folk Club
From: Will Fly
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 07:24 AM

...the music which obsesses us is likely to be outsold by bands playing 1950/60's rock n roll covers.

I wouldn't be surprised. When I played in a 1950s-style rock'n roll trio in the '80s and early '90s, we got 2-3 bookings a week all over the south-east, playing in working men's clubs, pubs, Legions, etc., and nearly always had a full house. We used to kick off with the Everley Brothers' "Walk Right Back" - and watch all the toes tapping in the audience...

Subject: RE: Review: Julie Felix at Stourbridge Folk Club
From: johncharles
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 07:18 AM

Folk music has never been a majority interest and anyone running a club/concert for folk music needs to have this in mind. Despite what we may wish to believe the music which obsesses us is likely to be outsold by bands playing 1950/60's rock n roll covers.
Start small,only book people to the value of the loss you can cover,better to sing to three people than to cancel.
john

Subject: RE: Review: Julie Felix at Stourbridge Folk Club
From: Will Fly
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 05:07 AM

The OP wrote: Sunjay Brayne tries to start up a new folk club at Stourbridge, books Julie Felix as his headline act and 3 people turn up. Thats a fine way to reward a young guy trying to boost an ailing Folk Scene! Shame on you Folkies.

I suppose one could debate whether the Folk Scene is "ailing" (I really don't want to, but I can assure you it's not ailing in Sussex). Then I suppose one could debate whether Julie Felix is the right person to open up a new club in a pub venue. No offence whatsoever to JF - she can obviously sell out a concert - but she's not my cup of tea, and I wouldn't pay £10 to see her anywhere. And, actually, I don't go to a venue to "reward" anyone - harsh though that may sound - I go because I want to listen to the main attraction, not as an act of charity.

I went to see Chris Newman at the Hawth at Crawley some weeks ago. There were probably not more than a couple of dozen of us in a room that could have held 60, which was a shame for Chris. It was still a great night, though, and the best £12 I've spent in months on live entertainment. You win some, you lose some.

And my sympathy to Sunjay, who undoubtedly did his best for the occasion.

Subject: RE: Review: Julie Felix at Stourbridge Folk Club
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 04:53 AM

are there other folk clubs within a 10 mile radius in the S'bridge area ?

I was once approached book her. I declined as I did not think my club was established enough and she did not appear to want to help develop a new club .

Clubs generally do not book her is my impression though she does do concerts.

She appeals to a declining audience who recall heady days of the 60s who rarely attend 'folk clubs' and would feel less inclined to pay £10 to see her in a pub.

Just thoughts

Subject: RE: Review: Julie Felix at Stourbridge Folk Club
From: Elmore
Date: 29 Nov 12 - 09:25 PM

Hate when that happens. Years ago I booked a well known traditional American performer. I did all the right things as far as publicity was concerned, booked a decent sized hall, and got an embarassingly small crowd. I was crushed. The first thing I did after that was contact Gordon Bok's agent. Gordon filled that hall.

Subject: RE: Review: Julie Felix at Stourbridge Folk Club
From: GUEST,Square The Circle
Date: 29 Nov 12 - 07:53 AM

The Pub it was held in may not have been the ideal venue, it has audience for free events, Irish music and fairly low cost other bands, 3 to £5.00 range according to the website.
Perhaps a bit of a shock £10.00 for one artist.

Subject: RE: Review: Julie Felix at Stourbridge Folk Club
From: SunrayFC
Date: 29 Nov 12 - 04:57 AM

this must have been so disapointing...

Subject: RE: Review: Julie Felix at Stourbridge Folk Club
From: Will Fly
Date: 29 Nov 12 - 04:01 AM

When Julie F appeared at Chichester in January this year, it was sold out. But there are a lot of folk venues in Sussex, both East and West - and a great deal of interest in music with a folk orientation.

Perhaps Stourbridge has a different set of likes and dislikes - location, location, etc...

Subject: RE: Review: Julie Felix at Stourbridge Folk Club
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 28 Nov 12 - 07:56 PM

I'm just listening to one of her songs on the radio (old folkie is being interviewed on mainstream radio) & saw this thread. I'm sorry to read her concert was not well attended as she is a fantastic singer.

good luck to Sunjay's new club.

sandra (who also runs a club tho it is 22 years old & has had concerts with 10 & 16 attendees in the past. 16 folkies for Martyn Wyndham-Read! but we did have to move to a different date, never again)

Subject: RE: Review: Julie Felix at Stourbridge Folk Club
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 28 Nov 12 - 06:49 PM

I already contributed a bit to the thread about this on Facebook. Does seem kind of baffling. Especially when you look at Julie Felix's gig list on her website. I'd be very interested to know what turnout is like on the rest of her tour - at cambridge folk club, for instance...

Subject: Review: Julie Felix at Stourbridge Folk Club
From: GUEST,Breedlove OF
Date: 28 Nov 12 - 11:50 AM

Sunjay Brayne tries to start up a new folk club at Stourbridge, books Julie Felix as his headline act and 3 people turn up. Thats a fine way to reward a young guy trying to boost an ailing Folk Scene! Shame on you Folkies.