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information on this concertina please

Mr Red 30 Nov 12 - 11:18 AM
The Sandman 30 Nov 12 - 11:43 AM
MGM·Lion 30 Nov 12 - 02:19 PM
Steve Gardham 30 Nov 12 - 03:15 PM
Manitas_at_home 01 Dec 12 - 02:09 AM
Steve Gardham 01 Dec 12 - 10:31 AM
Tootler 01 Dec 12 - 12:22 PM
GUEST,John from Kemsing 01 Dec 12 - 12:30 PM
Mr Red 05 Dec 12 - 11:21 AM
EBarnacle 05 Dec 12 - 05:40 PM
Bernard 05 Dec 12 - 05:58 PM
Guran 07 Dec 12 - 12:24 AM
MGM·Lion 07 Dec 12 - 01:41 AM
Howard Jones 07 Dec 12 - 04:31 AM
Guran 07 Dec 12 - 08:11 AM
Guran 07 Dec 12 - 08:24 AM
The Sandman 07 Dec 12 - 09:56 AM
Guran 07 Dec 12 - 12:45 PM
The Sandman 07 Dec 12 - 04:04 PM
The Sandman 07 Dec 12 - 04:11 PM
The Sandman 07 Dec 12 - 05:37 PM
GUEST,cjf169 23 Jan 13 - 08:53 AM
The Sandman 23 Jan 13 - 04:57 PM
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Subject: information on this concertina please
From: Mr Red
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 11:18 AM

Flickr link

made in the German Democratic Republic, must be over 22 years ago.

It has been donated as a fund raiser for Stroud FM (community radio in Gloucestershire UK)

It seems to have a row of chords on one side (upper row - (RHS I think))

wooden construction, leather straps.

We will try to sell it but first I was wondering if anyone has an idea of what/where/when/why and things like that. Being only a humble bodhran player I have little idea of how typical of concertinas it is.

I have come across larger but simlar items labelled "Klezma" instruments, the button/note arrangements suiting that genre.

TIA


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Subject: RE: information on this concertina please
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 11:43 AM

it is a cheap make, action not generally very good for playing, worth maybe 30 pounds[imo]


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Subject: RE: information on this concertina please
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 02:19 PM

Agree with Dick: Hohner produced some similar 20-key anglo-styles around 60s-70s, tho those contained more metal. But tone was nothing extra - coarse reeds gave more of an accordion than a concertina timbre {no offence to accordionists; but they are different instruments and shouldn't sound too alike}. I think quite a lot of us got one of those to learn basics on, then graduated to more interesting handmade Lachenal or Shakespeare or Wheatstone or Jeffries or Jones.

~M~


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Subject: RE: information on this concertina please
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 03:15 PM

I can't believe there's not a player in the Stroud area who could give you chapter and verse. Here are a few things to look at. Do any of the notes play without pressing the keys? If so it will need some pads replacing. Are all of the buttons present and do they return when released? These primitive beasts usually work with the key being glued to a wooden lever. You need to find someone who can tell you if it is in tune. If you have an ear at all, as there are several reeds playing at once, you should be able to hear any out of tune reeds.
They are not as easy to tune as better quality boxes as they have banks of melodeon reeds and some of these are waxed/pinned in place inside boxes and the reeds are rivetted on as opposed to being screwed into place with a clamp. If it needs substantial work on it it's hardly worth anything. If it's in tune and playable then it should be worth about £50 to a beginner.


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Subject: RE: information on this concertina please
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 01 Dec 12 - 02:09 AM

I'm interested in the row of chords! It wouldn't really be a concertina with chords on one side, would it? Some sort of experiment, perhaps. A melodeon in concertina's clothing?


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Subject: RE: information on this concertina please
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 01 Dec 12 - 10:31 AM

It may well sound like chords are being played if some of the pads are leaking.


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Subject: RE: information on this concertina please
From: Tootler
Date: 01 Dec 12 - 12:22 PM

Have you tried asking on concertina.net?


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Subject: RE: information on this concertina please
From: GUEST,John from Kemsing
Date: 01 Dec 12 - 12:30 PM

I have one of similar ilk, East German(exactly the same label), makers mark "BM", all wooden construction including levers and pads, brass reeds mounted on aluminium plates, two reeds per note, card/paper/leather corner bellows, scales "G" and "D". They certainly don`t come any more economically made than these. My late brother bought it for me at a house sale in Sussex somewhere. Not an unreasonable tone and it serves a purpose.


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Subject: RE: information on this concertina please
From: Mr Red
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 11:21 AM

two reeds per note might be what I heard.

I will digest the data above. And do the tests.

It was never going to be a valuable instrument, the donor indicated how little he payed for it at the time.

Thanks everyone. The Mudcat serves well, yet again.


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Subject: RE: information on this concertina please
From: EBarnacle
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 05:40 PM

Ny rummage sale got one in this year labeled Made in Occupie Berlin. It went for $50 as a curiousity.


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Subject: RE: information on this concertina please
From: Bernard
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 05:58 PM

Some of those things were made with a pair of (accordion) reeds tuned in octaves, and others with unison reeds in tremolo tuning. They tended to have all the reeds riveted to one plate, so uneconomical to attempt a repair if a reed failed.

As Dick said, not worth much - EBarnacle's 'as a curiosity' sums it up quite well... certainly not a serious musical instrument, sadly.

On the bright side, though, it's better looking than those 'orrible bright red Galotta things!


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Subject: RE: information on this concertina please
From: Guran
Date: 07 Dec 12 - 12:24 AM

"As Dick said, not worth much - EBarnacle's 'as a curiosity' sums it up quite well... certainly not a serious musical instrument, sadly".

Hello!.. I have to object a bit to some of the demeaning statements here. Is not an Arnold Bandoneon - favoured by many high level tango musicians - a "serious musical instrument" ? Or common "Chemnitzer" Konzertinas? They have got the same basical technical construction as German sixsided Konzertinas of this kind. "We" are dominantly Anglofils on this site and obviously tend to regard only British style concertinas as "serious musical instruments" while the musical standard mostly is set by the musician, not the instrument, unless the instrument is "seriously" out of order.Depends or what you intend to play. Since the probably the majority of Anglo players practise very simple folk tunes with very limited note range an instruemnt of this kind would do pretty well (if in original working order). Keep in mind that when the Irish concertina idiom grew from the beginning this was just the kind of instruments which were most common!


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Subject: RE: information on this concertina please
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 07 Dec 12 - 01:41 AM

But in my experience, Guran, the tone of these is harsh and the notes a bit fuzzy, compared with the clearly defined notes of the Lachenals, Joneses, Shakespeares et al, as listed in my previous post. If your concertina is going to sound accordion-like, why not just play an accordion and have done; but if you want the *characteristic* concertina timbre, I don't think these instruments will provide it.

~M~


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Subject: RE: information on this concertina please
From: Howard Jones
Date: 07 Dec 12 - 04:31 AM

The problem with these concertinas is not so much the technical design but the quality of construction. It is this which sets them apart from both English-action concertinas and bandoneons and chemnitzers. The reeds tend to be slow to respond and have poor tone. They are a useful cheap introduction to playing the anglo, but most players will soon find the instrument is holding them back.


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Subject: RE: information on this concertina please
From: Guran
Date: 07 Dec 12 - 08:11 AM

MtheGM:
"But in my experience, Guran, the tone of these is harsh and the notes a bit fuzzy, compared with the clearly defined notes of the Lachenals, Joneses, Shakespeares et al"

RE: Many people , particularly those who are not inborn concertina fans, say that the single reed "concertina tone" is "harsher" than double reeded accordion tone either tuned wet or in octave.

"as listed in my previous post. If your concertina is going to sound accordion-like, why not just play an accordion and have done; but if you want the *characteristic* concertina timbre, I don't think these instruments will provide it".

RE: We've got so many kinds of "concertinas" today that it is hardly meaningful to speak of "the *characteristic* concertina timbre" - is it? If you prefer the 'concertina concept' but the accordion tone it is natural having an instrument which combines these things instead of a mostly larger and heavier accordion is it not? In a longish thread at c.net about 10 years ago I suggested a minimalized 4sided double-reeded (octave) "Anglo" using accordion reeds but general technology of Brit style instruments. There are lots of possibilities to to try new concertina constructions BUT the probably most critical drawback making them according to the classical Brit style concept is the extreme cost of handmade reedworks.I guess it won't be long until you can't buy any accordion reeds either to reasonable prices. So what's up concerning "concertina timbre"?


~M~


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Subject: RE: information on this concertina please
From: Guran
Date: 07 Dec 12 - 08:24 AM

Howard:
"The problem with these concertinas is not so much the technical design but the quality of construction. It is this which sets them apart from both English-action concertinas and bandoneons and chemnitzers".

Hm..I don't see what you mean there. Bandoneons and Chemnitzers basically share the construction with "these concertinas".

"The reeds tend to be slow to respond and have poor tone".

As I said, they vary. The bulk may be like you said but so is the bulk of cheap Lachenals.

"They are a useful cheap introduction to playing the anglo, but most players will soon find the instrument is holding them back".

It entirely depends on what you play. Everyone is happier with a good instrument than a poor one but the proportion of demands sometimes is a bit funny.Is it a selfevident aim that a tune should be played at incredible speed ( demanding a top level instrument) rather than with
personal dynamics and expression ( demanding a sensible musician) ?


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Subject: RE: information on this concertina please
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Dec 12 - 09:56 AM

Guran, the instrument is one that does not encourage the player to use it, its rubbish."The bulk may be like you said but so is the bulk of cheap Lachenals."
This is simply codswallop, the bulk of cheap lachenals are not comparable to this instrument which is crap, most cheaplachenals are a hundred times better than that heap of shit.


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Subject: RE: information on this concertina please
From: Guran
Date: 07 Dec 12 - 12:45 PM

Dick:"..most cheaplachenals are a hundred times better than that heap of shit".

Not having this particular "heap" in the hands I would not say much about its standard, my point was that the general demeaning attitude concerning the concertina variant is not justified..."not a serious musical instrument".
Check below what some guys do with similar heaps:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BHDxSKEYz8&list=PL52D6EFE295C7285D&index=10

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smUvH3H1icw&list=PL52D6EFE295C7285D&index=12

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTPY8GpCwYo&list=PL52D6EFE295C7285D&index=9


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Subject: RE: information on this concertina please
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Dec 12 - 04:04 PM

guran,
i have encountered concertinas like these, they do not encourage anyone to play them.


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Subject: RE: information on this concertina please
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Dec 12 - 04:11 PM

next point,
is that those players in those clips would be able to play better , because if they were playing decent instruments that respond properly they can make better music., looking at the first clip, the player cannot put any attack or dynamics into the playing because of the crap bellows and crap action,
Guran, you are talking rubbish, it is very simple, bad instruments, that are poorly constructed and not set up properly, do nothing to encourage good musician ship.


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Subject: RE: information on this concertina please
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Dec 12 - 05:37 PM

furthermore , i would be surprised if these players dont own better quality instruments, anyone who reckons you can become a good musician playing an instrument that is unresponsive is talking balderdash as well as cods wallop.


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Subject: RE: information on this concertina please
From: GUEST,cjf169
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 08:53 AM

My partner Christina has bought said item to have a bit of practice on. It's a lovely little thing but we are absolute novices with squeeze boxes. Nice helpful thread everyone


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Subject: RE: information on this concertina please
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 04:57 PM

glad you are happy with your purchase


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