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Mali - death for playing folk music ...

ChrisJBrady 03 Dec 12 - 05:43 AM
GUEST,999 03 Dec 12 - 06:24 AM
GUEST,Eliza 03 Dec 12 - 06:29 AM
GUEST,Desi C 03 Dec 12 - 08:36 AM
MGM·Lion 03 Dec 12 - 09:21 AM
GUEST 03 Dec 12 - 09:30 AM
GUEST 03 Dec 12 - 09:57 AM
GUEST,Dani 03 Dec 12 - 10:04 AM
ChrisJBrady 03 Dec 12 - 10:05 AM
GUEST,Eliza 03 Dec 12 - 11:20 AM
Bonzo3legs 03 Dec 12 - 11:29 AM
GUEST,Eliza 03 Dec 12 - 11:42 AM
GUEST,999 03 Dec 12 - 11:58 AM
GUEST,Eliza 03 Dec 12 - 02:00 PM
Vic Smith 03 Dec 12 - 04:50 PM
Vic Smith 03 Dec 12 - 04:56 PM
michaelr 03 Dec 12 - 07:23 PM
GUEST,999 04 Dec 12 - 03:53 PM
michaelr 04 Dec 12 - 07:02 PM
Don Firth 04 Dec 12 - 09:29 PM
Vic Smith 05 Dec 12 - 06:05 AM
Vic Smith 05 Dec 12 - 06:26 AM
Henry Krinkle 05 Dec 12 - 06:39 AM
GUEST,Eliza 05 Dec 12 - 06:47 AM
Keith A of Hertford 05 Dec 12 - 06:55 AM
GUEST,Eliza 05 Dec 12 - 07:08 AM
Keith A of Hertford 05 Dec 12 - 07:20 AM
GUEST,Eliza 05 Dec 12 - 07:28 AM
Vic Smith 05 Dec 12 - 08:13 AM
GUEST,Eliza 05 Dec 12 - 11:14 AM
JohnB 05 Dec 12 - 11:36 AM
GUEST,999 05 Dec 12 - 11:51 AM
GUEST,Desi C 05 Dec 12 - 12:11 PM
GUEST,999 05 Dec 12 - 12:27 PM
MGM·Lion 05 Dec 12 - 01:15 PM
Musket 05 Dec 12 - 01:20 PM
GUEST 05 Dec 12 - 03:08 PM
Vic Smith 05 Dec 12 - 03:16 PM
GUEST,999 05 Dec 12 - 04:08 PM
Don Firth 05 Dec 12 - 04:19 PM
Keef 05 Dec 12 - 07:23 PM
Vic Smith 07 Dec 12 - 05:51 AM
GUEST,Desi C 07 Dec 12 - 07:21 AM
MGM·Lion 07 Dec 12 - 09:36 AM
Vic Smith 16 Jan 13 - 06:09 AM
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Subject: Mali - death for playing folk music ...
From: ChrisJBrady
Date: 03 Dec 12 - 05:43 AM

Mali was probably the greatest country in the world for its ancient and contemporary musical culture, maybe even surpassing Ireland.

Now all that is largely gone. The Islamic radicals have stated that ALL music and song are to be banned on pain of death at worst (beheading) or having finger cut off at best. That is unless it consists of verses of the 'Quoran' chanted in a monodrone.

This religion of love and tolerance - so we are repeatedly told - has no truck for enjoyment of a unique musical culture that is so deeply embedded into the soul of the Mali nation and its people.

Whilst I personally no rapper fan at least some of the local rappers are sticking their collective necks out with anti-Islamic raps. But they are not likely to live long.

More here - if you can bare to read it:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/oct/23/mali-militants-declare-war-music


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Subject: RE: Mali - death for playing folk music ...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 03 Dec 12 - 06:24 AM

Frightening article, CJB. One of the great scourges on the planet at present are religious fundamentalists and religious 'perversionists', usually speaking in the name of their various religions. And they will quote chapter and verse.


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Subject: RE: Mali - death for playing folk music ...
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 03 Dec 12 - 06:29 AM

Ivory Coast isn't much better, CJB. My husband's a Muslim from there, and he tells me no-one is allowed to sing unless they're a 'griot', which (as I understand it) means a person whose family traditionally sings at weddings and celebrations, and has done so for centuries. Children can be smacked hard for breaking into song! Whatever drives these people to be so severe and condemnatory? Like Mali, Cote d'Ivoire has a rich musical tradition, and the Christians and animists from there (fortunately) keep all these skills alive. But what might happen if the Muslim fundamentalists take over...? Burkas all round and deathly silence? They already continue to perform the appalling genital mutilations on little girls (in spite of it being illegal) in the name of Islam. Ghastly.


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Subject: RE: Mali - death for playing folk music ...
From: GUEST,Desi C
Date: 03 Dec 12 - 08:36 AM

Dreadful! But it'll be the same in the UK soon if this pathetic Conem gocernmemt carry on as they're going!


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Subject: RE: Mali - death for playing folk music ...
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 03 Dec 12 - 09:21 AM

What a vulgar, trivialising remark on a serious subject, GUEST,Desi C. Be ashamed!.

~M~


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Subject: RE: Mali - death for playing folk music ...
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Dec 12 - 09:30 AM

Nice to see catters so up to date with the news as this was in the paper on 23 October and discussed on the fR**ts board within 24 hours


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Subject: RE: Mali - death for playing folk music ...
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Dec 12 - 09:57 AM

Not everyone reads fRoots. And if you are so concerned, why didn't YOU inform the rest of us?


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Subject: RE: Mali - death for playing folk music ...
From: GUEST,Dani
Date: 03 Dec 12 - 10:04 AM

I'm glad you posted this. Have been listening to reports for a while now.

I have American friends who are very interested in the culture and music of Mali. It's very odd to think of our world shrinking in so many ways, and yet there's this place (and so many others) where terrible thing are happening that are so foreign to us.

Dani


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Subject: RE: Mali - death for playing folk music ...
From: ChrisJBrady
Date: 03 Dec 12 - 10:05 AM

Actually I was alerted to the Grauniad article by someone on the Kiwi Folk mailing list. I searched here for 'mali' and there was nothing listed. So I uploaded the link due to its appalling content. I don't 'do' fRoots so I wasn't aware that it was being discussed there. Like the abuse that is perpetrated by the Islamics just about everywhere this story will run and run. So if its a bit out-of-date - so what? Its an important issue; especially since they want Sharia Law and all that this stands for in the UK. And as for the abuse against females - that's a whole other horrendous issue. God what a horrible species we are - He must be rolling in His 'grave' that all this stuff is perpetrated in His name.


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Subject: RE: Mali - death for playing folk music ...
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 03 Dec 12 - 11:20 AM

I'm very sad on my own account about Mali, as I've always wanted to visit it and experience their wonderful music, dance and song. I have several music videos of it. Now I suppose I'd be wasting my time. I do hope that in spite of suppression, the culture is kept alive nonetheless. The Senoufou tribe in Ivory Coast (my husband's people) are found there too, as well as the Bobo, Boubounikan, Maniga, Koroboro, Fila, Gouin and Dogon and dozens more, each with their own culture, both in music and art. Imagine the richness that may be lost! Hubbie says he knows the region and that there will soon be a rebellion and counter-take-over, as the people won't stand for this Sharia rubbish! We were going to cross the border at Tengrila (his ancestral village) and go north into Mali. Let's hope one day we still might!


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Subject: RE: Mali - death for playing folk music ...
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 03 Dec 12 - 11:29 AM

Ah, when Tinariwen swap their guitars for AK47s - the tables will be turned!!


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Subject: RE: Mali - death for playing folk music ...
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 03 Dec 12 - 11:42 AM

Well, any regime in those parts doesn't last long, due to corruption and lack of funds. Someone else will have a go at being in charge. They probably won't last long either, and so it goes.


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Subject: RE: Mali - death for playing folk music ...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 03 Dec 12 - 11:58 AM

Eliza, I have a friend who went to a big music festival in Mali about 10 years back and he said it was beyond fantastic.


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Subject: RE: Mali - death for playing folk music ...
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 03 Dec 12 - 02:00 PM

I can well believe it, 999. They have both ancient, traditional music and a vibrant, modern type with an African flavour, which I love too. My husband has relatives over in Mali, and we were going to stay with them. I'd better buy a burka. Actually, with my face and figure, it might be a good idea! By the way, Mali is much drier than Ivory Coast, so with much less humidity I'd find the climate excellent. (I love the heat.)


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Subject: RE: Mali - death for playing folk music ...
From: Vic Smith
Date: 03 Dec 12 - 04:50 PM

GUEST Eliza wrote:-
Well, any regime in those parts doesn't last long, due to corruption and lack of funds.


Sadly. not so. In Mali's neighbour. The Gambia, Yahya Jammeh seized power in a bloodless coup on 22 July 1994 and he is still in power now. I was there during their 'general election' in March this year it was clear, even to an outsider that it was far from being free and fair. Jammah's party used all government resources to promote their campaign and I could see no distinction between "Party funding" and "government funding". Because of this the two opposition parties refused to put up candidates. In the part of the Gambia where we base ourselves on our visits, there were loud and long government party rallies every evening (Good work for some of my musician friends) but in spite of that an independent with no funding won the seat in that constituency. This caused dismay amongst some of my non-political friends. If you don't elect the government party candidate, my friends told me, then there will be no government spending on anything in your area and your area will go to the top of the list for the frequent power cuts.

The political stability of a number of West African countries has been totally undermined by the fall of the Gaddafi regime in Libya. His armies had a large percentage of highly trained mercenaries from a wide range of sub-Saharan countries. These soldiers fled (with their weapons) Being used to a very privileged status in Libya, they have sought to join forces with dissidents in their home countries and have overturned democratic regimes (using the term loosely) with military dictatorships in Niger (19 February 2010), Mali (21 March 2012) and Guinea-Bissau (12 April 2012).

Returning to the subject of Mali, it is difficult to see this lovely place as single country created, as it was, by the colonial French. The aspirations of the Tuaregs, a Berber people, and Maurs of the north with the Bambara, Malinke, Soninke and Fulas of the south, not to mention the animist Dogons of the central plateau region who don't seem to want to be part of any country. The Tuerags have been fighting for independence from Mali for a long time; they are as opposed to the A infiltration as anyone in the south and they have been negotaiting with the government in Bamako for some degree of autonomy in return for


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Subject: RE: Mali - death for playing folk music ...
From: Vic Smith
Date: 03 Dec 12 - 04:56 PM

(PRESSED SUBMIT IN ERROR)
they are as opposed to the al-Qaeda infiltration as anyone in the south and they have been negotiating with the government in Bamako for some degree of autonomy in return for driving out the Muslin extremists.

Well, any regime in those parts doesn't last long,
Joseph-Désiré Mobutu, the most hated man on the Afican continent was in power from 1965 to 1997.


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Subject: RE: Mali - death for playing folk music ...
From: michaelr
Date: 03 Dec 12 - 07:23 PM

Festival in the Desert

The extremists have to be stopped. In Mali it's music; in Uganda, the death penalty for homosexuals.


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Subject: RE: Mali - death for playing folk music ...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 04 Dec 12 - 03:53 PM

Hi, Michael. I sent a brief note to the Ugandan government when I signed a petition yesterday.

http://www.allout.org/

When I received it via email from a lesbian friend I was about 225,000 to sign. It's garnered over a million signatures in the past 24 or so hours.


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Subject: RE: Mali - death for playing folk music ...
From: michaelr
Date: 04 Dec 12 - 07:02 PM

Very good, Bruce. Thanks for the link.


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Subject: RE: Mali - death for playing folk music ...
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 Dec 12 - 09:29 PM

I also signed the petition, which I got in my e-mail a few days ago.

========

I have just read a lengthy article on Sharia Law. And according to the article, Sharia Law does consider music and musical instruments to be "of Satan," and according to this Draconian doctrine, the only time singing is permitted is at weddings. The words must be composed of verses from the Koran, and the only accompaniment allowed is one person beating a small, open-backed, hand-held drum (think bodhran).

What sad people!

The oud, the musical instrument from which the lute was derived, was brought into Europe when the "Moors" invaded the Iberian Peninsula (Spain and Portugal).
In 711 CE, the now Islamic Moors conquered Visigothic Christian Hispania. Their general, Tariq ibn-Ziyad, brought most of Iberia under Islamic rule in an eight-year campaign. They attempted to move northeast across the Pyrenees Mountains, but were defeated by the Frankish Charles Martel at the Battle of Poitiers in 732.
One still notices Moorish influences in Spanish music, particularly in such things as Flamenco, although it is essentially Romany.

There has always been music from the Mid-East, across North Africa, and up into Turkey, all predominantly Muslim countries. Turkey in particular has a rich heritage of Mid-Eastern classical music. Islam, itself, has always had a rich musical culture.

Music is not of Satan, it is the sound of Allah praying.

From what part of Hell, or from which fetid swamp, did these self-appointed guardians of All Things Holy ooze from!??

And might there not be some way to assemble them, along with their fundamentalist Christian counterparts, and ship the whole bunch of them off to Mars?

Don Firth

P. S. By the way, I am overjoyed to hear that young Malala Yousafzai is making a very good recovery, and although she is not "out of the woods" yet, her doctors say that they do not belief that she has suffered "any permanent neurological damage or impairment."

For those who've been living in a cave lately, Malala is the fourteen-year-old (now fifteen) Pakistani girl who was shot in the head by a couple of Taliban (Sharia Law) goons because she—a female—wanted to go to school and get an education.

P. P. S. A bit of etymology (the study of where words come from):   the word "sharia" means, literally "the way." And initially, it referred to "the way to the water-hole."


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Subject: RE: Mali - death for playing folk music ...
From: Vic Smith
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 06:05 AM

The Guardian today publishes an informative update on the situation in Mali on page 25 by Tamasin Ford and Bonnie Allen under the title Mali civilians vow to take up arms against Islamist extremists

This article is on-line at http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/04/mali-civilians-arms-against-islamist-extremists?INTCMP=SRCH where there is also a very insightful video.


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Subject: RE: Mali - death for playing folk music ...
From: Vic Smith
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 06:26 AM

I don't agree with everything that Don Firth says in his posting above but one sentence of his needs to be written large in everyone's mind - so I will do it here:-

There has always been music from the Mid-East, across North Africa, and up into Turkey, all predominantly Muslim countries. Turkey in particular has a rich heritage of Mid-Eastern classical music. Islam, itself, has always had a rich musical culture.


I have travelled extensively in the areas that Don mentions, heard some wonderful music and met some wonderful musicians. I think that Don needs to add "West Africa" to the area covered by his statement.

The fairly light forms of Islam that I see in Senegal and The Gambia are probably the most satisfactory form of organised religion that I have encountered anywhere. I ask friends what the imams at the mosques in Bakau have been talking about after they return on a Friday and the messages always seem to be about aspects of developing a greater sense of community morality and responsibility rather than concentrating on dogma. Having said that, I would have to agree heartily with Don in his statements about evils of extreme forms of organised religion. The three major monotheist religions have a great deal to answer for in the way they have operated and continue to operate.


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Subject: RE: Mali - death for playing folk music ...
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 06:39 AM

Their religion has to be disproved.
With hard, clear science.
=(:-( ))


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Subject: RE: Mali - death for playing folk music ...
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 06:47 AM

I know Senegal very well, Vic, and have travelled, alone, all over it. I can confirm that what you say about the 'fairly light forms of Islam' is quite true. In many villages there's a mosque and a small church, and members of both live and work happily together. BUT, recently, a fundamentalist movement has arisen, particularly in Dakar, which is causing a lot of trouble. The same group are active in Abidjan (Ivory Coast) and pssobly other W African countries. They are trying to bring strict Shariah laws into being. One wonders just who is funding all this. My husband says that most moderate muslims he knows are not at all supportive of this new movement. He even says it isn't Islamic at all. Is there an underlying motive to 'take over the world'? I know this sounds far-fetched, but they seem inordinately well-organised and active, with funding and leadership. In Dakar, they've provoked riots and even seemed (when I was there) to have taken over much of the television programmes and coverage. I find all this a bit sinister.


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Subject: RE: Mali - death for playing folk music ...
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 06:55 AM

Islamization of black Africa can be attributed to external forces. Here, the accusing fingers point to Riyadh. The government of Saudi Arabia is involved in promoting Islam south of the Sahara. This is done by providing money through the Saudi Embassy to fund Islamic activities in Africa (See McCormack). The funds are used to build mosques and Islamic centers. For example the Saudi governments are responsible for funding such Islamic organizations such as the Izala of Nigeria and Al-Falah of Senegal. These funds provided by the Saudi government put these groups at an advantage in fostering their Islamic programs "from the bottom up- grassroots methods for the introduction of Wahhabism." The significance of these associations are to promote Islamic ideology and significantly to recruit new members for Islam.

Due to the financial problems facing many African countries the state welfare programs of these various countries are weak. Consequently, non-governmental organizations such as Izala in Nigeria had to fill the vacuum created, that they have become increasingly important by copying socio-economic activities of Christian missionary churches in attracting new members to Islam (Westerlund). In Port Harcourt, Nigeria for example, "Muslims contribute money, food and other items, which are distributed without discrimination on the basis of religion." According to Kilani, these socio-economic activities are to convert non-Muslims to Islam. These outreach programs are very effective in converting the poor who depend on these handouts.

The growth of Islam in Nigeria and Senegal can also be attributed to the resurgence among youths, because of a network of information available through television radio, books and the internet which the youths have access to as compared to older Muslims. These available new tools serve as a catalyst to recruit the youth, not only in sub-Saharan but the world as a whole.


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Subject: RE: Mali - death for playing folk music ...
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 07:08 AM

Very informative, Keith. Thank you for that. I suspected the Saudis, since they have plenty of money and are fundamentalist in outlook. The poverty in W Africa is a channel for all sorts of exploitation-for-ones-own-ends. Many nations are investing there in plant and infrastructure. It creates jobs, but they're atrociously poorly paid, and corruption swallows up any benefits to the local people. I'm surprised that youths are influenced, because my husband says, in Abidjan at least, the young people are bored with the old religious strictures even of mild Islam, and many no longer go to prayers or obey the mores of dress, culture etc. (Much to their parents' dismay!)I feel despairing that the wonderful, breathtaking range of superb music, art and dance etc may be lost through being banned outright by these fanatical bullies.


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Subject: RE: Mali - death for playing folk music ...
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 07:20 AM

My step daughter worked with street children in Sennegal.


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Subject: RE: Mali - death for playing folk music ...
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 07:28 AM

How wonderful Keith, I do admire that. I saw many ragged little boys with their begging tins out in the streets of Dakar. I was told that parents send their boys to a madrassa (or Muslim Koranic school). The teacher there exploits them, beating them if they don't bring back enough in their tins. They looked to me to be half-starved and ill. When I tried to give them money, my trusty taximan warned me that it would be foolish, as the 'teacher' would grab it all and the poor little ones given bad food to eat just the same. Their parents had handed them over because they couldn't afford to feed them. Education and contraception seem to me to be a good start!


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Subject: RE: Mali - death for playing folk music ...
From: Vic Smith
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 08:13 AM

The madrassa in Dakar also take in a lot of runaway teenagers from different parts of the Senegal, Mauritania and The Gambia. I have spoken to some in The Gambia who had ended up running away back home. Life was tough at home, but better than what they found in Dakar.


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Subject: RE: Mali - death for playing folk music ...
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 11:14 AM

I found that life in the rural villages, although equally poverty-stricken, had a certain dignity and stability to it, and I saw many rather poor folk but they looked (to my eyes) reasonably happy. In the larger towns and cities however (eg Ziginchor, Dakar) I saw dreadful things, real starvation, with people walking past skeletal beggars at the side of the road, and one, a mother with two small whimpering babies, who seemed to be at death's door. My taximan ( I used him, an oldish chap, most of the time as he was a good 'bodyguard') always stopped me from giving, as he said there'd be a huge crowd around us in seconds and he couldn't guarantee to protect me. And one paltry contribution wouldn't solve much. Maybe they think even Muslim fundamentalism could offer a better standard of living, who knows? On a happier note, the music, drumming, dancing, craft and printed textiles I saw in W Africa were out of this world. It's their only outlet, and no-one should forbid it.


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Subject: RE: Mali - death for playing folk music ...
From: JohnB
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 11:36 AM

Jian Ghomeshi on his CBC Radio programme "Q" did a section on this yesterday.
Podcast available here he interviewed a guy from England who had been there also the Music Director of the Festival in the Dessert direct from Mali.
Maybe someone if they listen can post the exact time.


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Subject: RE: Mali - death for playing folk music ...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 11:51 AM

Yo, Sloop, it kicks in about 1:30 into the podcast, but moving the cursor ahead doesn't seem to speed things up.


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Subject: RE: Mali - death for playing folk music ...
From: GUEST,Desi C
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 12:11 PM

It wasn't a joke remark, the UK is now in the grip of a dictatorship very like that of Nazi Germany in the mid to late 1930's


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Subject: RE: Mali - death for playing folk music ...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 12:27 PM

That shouldn't be a hardship unless you're a Facebook fan where concentrating on something for longer than 15 seconds seems like an eternity.


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Subject: RE: Mali - death for playing folk music ...
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 01:15 PM

I suppose you know what you are on about, Desi C. Does anybody else?

I look out of my back window & I still see Sutton Church across the Fen. Doesn't look much like Dachau to me. Haven't noticed any of my neighbours in the village here disappearing lately. A police car sometimes drives by, but the occupants don't wear brown shirts, or look much like the SS...

??????


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Subject: RE: Mali - death for playing folk music ...
From: Musket
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 01:20 PM

The issue isn't only people using religion as an excuse for keeping communities under their control, it is the shallow idiots who blame the religion rather than the people using it, or if they don't have the intelligence to work out a blame, get their opinions fed to them from the newspapers. A hammer can be used to put a nice picture up or crucify a poor bugger. Still a hammer.

I was invited to a mosque in Sheffield a few years ago to sing a few songs from The BBC Radio Ballads for a group led my a local Imam who encouraged local Muslims, men and women at the same time in the same room... to learn more about the industrial heritage of the area.

Conversely, my old RE teacher used to tell us Pop Music was the work of the devil and we will burn in Hell if we buy records...

Mind you, he used to touch us inappropriately too. He emigrated to The USA to be a preacher. You're welcome!


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Subject: RE: Mali - death for playing folk music ...
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 03:08 PM

Eliza wrote:-
"I found that life in the rural villages, although equally poverty-stricken, had a certain dignity and stability to it, and I saw many rather poor folk but they looked (to my eyes) reasonably happy."


I am sure that Eliza would confirm that the sense of real community in the rural Sene-Gambian villages has to be experienced to be believed.
We were visiting and staying the night in a friend's family compound in a remote North Bank village in The Gambia earlier this year. We took a sack of rice with us, piled on the roof - along with the goats & chickens - of the beaten-up old minibuses that are the only form of public transport in that part. We bought the rest of the food for our stay in the nearby town market and the women of the compound cooked and served a right royal feast and we were served in the proper West Afican way with the food on one huge dish which everyone sat round to eat - though to cater for our European sensibilities we were supplied with a spoon each rather than eating with our hands like the Africans were. Tasty titbits were moved over in the direction of us, the guests, to savour.
When the compound-master had ensured that we were all absolutely stuffed, he gathered up the huge dish which still had a lot of food on it and explained that he was taking it to the next compound because he didn't think that they had had a lot to eat lately.
Imagine that happening anywhere over here!

Just writing this makes me long to be out there again, but I won't be going until February. I cannot bear to think of this way of life being destroyed by religious fundementalists.


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Subject: RE: Mali - death for playing folk music ...
From: Vic Smith
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 03:16 PM

I expect you will have been able to work out from the style and content who the above cookie-less GUEST was.


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Subject: RE: Mali - death for playing folk music ...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 04:08 PM

"And might there not be some way to assemble them, along with their fundamentalist Christian counterparts, and ship the whole bunch of them off to Mars?" (Don Firth)

"The three major monotheist religions have a great deal to answer for in the way they have operated and continue to operate." (Vic Smith)

"A hammer can be used to put a nice picture up or crucify a poor bugger. Still a hammer." (Musket)

##########################

I recall hearing from a priest at some point that 'the coat hanging in your closet belongs to a poor man', and I have tried to live that. (I think it was from St Basil.)

Extremists are all over everywhere, and I think the world could do without them. I have always preferred sane people who act on the spirit of their beliefs--Joe Offer comes to mind with his work at the women's shelter and his advocacy for prisoners--rather than chapter and verse of whatever book/belief system they subscribe to.


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Subject: RE: Mali - death for playing folk music ...
From: Don Firth
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 04:19 PM

I heartily agree with Musket's comments about religion.

Many people focus solely on the evil that certain factions within many—unfortunately, most—religions practice. But they ignore the good that many religions do.

How many here are familiar with, or are even aware of, organizations such as the Lutheran Peace Fellowship or the Fellowship of Reconciliation, or of the multiplicity of similare church-sponsored organizations?

Now, I'm not a particularly religious person, and I don't care to go into the details of my beliefs (or lack thereof) in this post (some other time, maybe), but I am a member of a local church, one of the main-line denominations (Lutheran), that tends to take a more philosophical approach to their beliefs and puts heavy emphasis on practicing those beliefs rather than merely yapping on about them. And if one does not agree, they shrug their shoulders and respond, "Well, that's your privilege," and let it go.

Among other things, it sponsors programs to find low-cost or no-cost housing for the poor and homeless in this area, and they offer free meals in the parish house next door to the church so that no one need go hungry. And they don't make people pay for the meal by inflicting a sermon on them. And when possible, they help people find jobs.

And this is by no means a wealthy church. But they use what resources they have to do real, tangible good in the world. No matter what the beliefs of those recipients might happen to be.

So I have a considerably different view of religion than some people on this forum have. But my view comes from experience, up close and personal.

Now I'm fully aware of the atrocities that have been committed throughout history in the name of various religions. But more often than not, these atrocities are not consistent with the core beliefs of the religion, and oftentimes were committed for secular rather than religious reasons. I don't think that Jesus would be too happy about the Inquisition burning "heretics" at the stake, or that Mohammed would agree with the idea of cutting the fingers off of a musician's hands.

=======

After reading the Guardian story and watching the video clip, I firmly believe that this is one area in which the international community—the United Nations, for example, complete with whatever military forces are necessary—is morally obligated to intervene.

=======

And Vic, I'm curious to know what points in my above post you didn't agree with. Granted, I should have included West Africa. I've never had an opportunity to travel in the area, but in an Anthropology class in college, I did an extensive term paper on Timbuktu, its history and anthropological make-up of the surrounding area. Fascinating stuff!

But were there other points? I ask, not to be confrontational, but in order to be well-informed and repair any holes in my own knowledge.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: Mali - death for playing folk music ...
From: Keef
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 07:23 PM

What is the Taliban ruling on Morris Dancing, Bodhrans, spoon playing, bagpipes, line dancing, Albert and The Lion reciters?
Where do I join up?


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Subject: RE: Mali - death for playing folk music ...
From: Vic Smith
Date: 07 Dec 12 - 05:51 AM

A very worrying report from Thomas Fessy for the BBC:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-20624236


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Subject: RE: Mali - death for playing folk music ...
From: GUEST,Desi C
Date: 07 Dec 12 - 07:21 AM

Re From: MtheGM I can well understand you don't see much real life in a place like that, don't worry about it eh


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Subject: RE: Mali - death for playing folk music ...
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 07 Dec 12 - 09:36 AM

Oh, I don't know, Desi C ~~ we have just done the week's shop at Tesco's in Ely. & tonight I am off to review 12th Night at the ADC Theatre in Cambridge. Talk about eventful, eh?

Mind you, I can't say I noticed a vast number of brown-shirted Sturmabteilung strutting the aisles where the black cherry jam and the cat food pieces in jelly and the potato wedges were. And last time I went to a Cambridge theatre, the number of SS-men & Geheime Staatspolizei conspicuous by their absence was mind-blowing. Still, I expect I am just a bit unobservant these days.

Maybe?

~M~


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Subject: RE: Mali - death for playing folk music ...
From: Vic Smith
Date: 16 Jan 13 - 06:09 AM

Robin Denselow gives a very good summary of the perilous situation of musicians in the rapidly deteriorating situation in Mali in today's The Guardian :-

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2013/jan/15/mali-music-ban-islamists-crushing


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