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BS: Coyote Problems?

Henry Krinkle 05 Dec 12 - 03:06 AM
GUEST,Shimrod 05 Dec 12 - 04:34 AM
Henry Krinkle 05 Dec 12 - 04:56 AM
Jack the Sailor 05 Dec 12 - 05:14 AM
Henry Krinkle 05 Dec 12 - 05:32 AM
Henry Krinkle 05 Dec 12 - 05:57 AM
kendall 05 Dec 12 - 07:27 AM
Becca72 05 Dec 12 - 09:22 AM
Henry Krinkle 05 Dec 12 - 09:28 AM
MGM·Lion 05 Dec 12 - 09:28 AM
Henry Krinkle 05 Dec 12 - 09:47 AM
Rapparee 05 Dec 12 - 09:48 AM
Henry Krinkle 05 Dec 12 - 09:50 AM
Greg F. 05 Dec 12 - 10:05 AM
Henry Krinkle 05 Dec 12 - 10:16 AM
Nigel Parsons 05 Dec 12 - 10:24 AM
Henry Krinkle 05 Dec 12 - 10:27 AM
Greg F. 05 Dec 12 - 10:43 AM
Henry Krinkle 05 Dec 12 - 10:46 AM
Greg F. 05 Dec 12 - 10:57 AM
Henry Krinkle 05 Dec 12 - 11:01 AM
Nigel Parsons 05 Dec 12 - 11:05 AM
Henry Krinkle 05 Dec 12 - 11:11 AM
Bat Goddess 05 Dec 12 - 11:15 AM
Greg F. 05 Dec 12 - 11:18 AM
Henry Krinkle 05 Dec 12 - 11:35 AM
JohnInKansas 05 Dec 12 - 12:04 PM
kendall 05 Dec 12 - 12:10 PM
GUEST,999 05 Dec 12 - 12:16 PM
GUEST,999 05 Dec 12 - 12:23 PM
Henry Krinkle 05 Dec 12 - 12:28 PM
ollaimh 05 Dec 12 - 12:41 PM
Henry Krinkle 05 Dec 12 - 12:43 PM
Sandy Mc Lean 05 Dec 12 - 12:52 PM
Jack the Sailor 05 Dec 12 - 03:59 PM
GUEST,999 05 Dec 12 - 04:49 PM
Greg F. 05 Dec 12 - 04:57 PM
gnu 05 Dec 12 - 05:03 PM
pdq 05 Dec 12 - 05:23 PM
Jack the Sailor 05 Dec 12 - 05:36 PM
Henry Krinkle 05 Dec 12 - 07:06 PM
gnu 05 Dec 12 - 07:17 PM
Jack the Sailor 05 Dec 12 - 09:52 PM
GUEST,marks(on the road) 05 Dec 12 - 11:33 PM
ollaimh 06 Dec 12 - 12:04 AM
Rapparee 06 Dec 12 - 12:13 AM
GUEST,Big Al Whittle 06 Dec 12 - 12:20 AM
Henry Krinkle 06 Dec 12 - 12:42 AM
Jack the Sailor 06 Dec 12 - 12:47 AM
gnu 06 Dec 12 - 04:20 AM
GUEST,big Al Whittle 06 Dec 12 - 05:06 AM
Henry Krinkle 06 Dec 12 - 05:26 AM
GUEST,999 06 Dec 12 - 07:04 AM
Pete Jennings 06 Dec 12 - 07:15 AM
GUEST,999 06 Dec 12 - 08:19 AM
Greg F. 06 Dec 12 - 08:33 AM
Henry Krinkle 06 Dec 12 - 08:43 AM
GUEST,999 06 Dec 12 - 09:16 AM
Henry Krinkle 06 Dec 12 - 09:23 AM
GUEST,999 06 Dec 12 - 09:30 AM
Bat Goddess 06 Dec 12 - 09:37 AM
Greg F. 06 Dec 12 - 09:59 AM
Henry Krinkle 06 Dec 12 - 11:11 AM
GUEST,olddude 06 Dec 12 - 11:12 AM
Henry Krinkle 06 Dec 12 - 11:14 AM
Pete Jennings 06 Dec 12 - 11:15 AM
Henry Krinkle 06 Dec 12 - 11:19 AM
Jack the Sailor 06 Dec 12 - 11:28 AM
Jack the Sailor 06 Dec 12 - 11:29 AM
GUEST,Big Al Whittle 06 Dec 12 - 01:05 PM
gnu 06 Dec 12 - 01:38 PM
Jack the Sailor 06 Dec 12 - 02:52 PM
Rapparee 06 Dec 12 - 05:18 PM
Jack the Sailor 06 Dec 12 - 05:40 PM
Henry Krinkle 06 Dec 12 - 08:57 PM
Jack the Sailor 06 Dec 12 - 10:22 PM
Henry Krinkle 06 Dec 12 - 11:37 PM
GUEST,Big Al Whittle 07 Dec 12 - 07:32 AM
GUEST,leeneia 07 Dec 12 - 12:09 PM
Henry Krinkle 07 Dec 12 - 12:17 PM
Rapparee 07 Dec 12 - 01:35 PM
Jack the Sailor 07 Dec 12 - 01:45 PM
pdq 07 Dec 12 - 01:57 PM
GUEST,leeneia 07 Dec 12 - 06:57 PM
GUEST,Big Al Whittle 08 Dec 12 - 06:30 AM
Pete Jennings 08 Dec 12 - 06:34 AM
gnu 08 Dec 12 - 06:48 AM
Jack the Sailor 08 Dec 12 - 12:57 PM
ollaimh 08 Dec 12 - 03:56 PM
Henry Krinkle 08 Dec 12 - 04:38 PM
gnu 08 Dec 12 - 05:08 PM
Henry Krinkle 08 Dec 12 - 05:19 PM
Jack the Sailor 08 Dec 12 - 08:09 PM
Jack the Sailor 08 Dec 12 - 08:10 PM
Henry Krinkle 09 Dec 12 - 12:47 AM
pdq 09 Dec 12 - 10:22 AM
Jack the Sailor 09 Dec 12 - 12:03 PM
pdq 09 Dec 12 - 03:24 PM
gnu 09 Dec 12 - 05:15 PM
pdq 09 Dec 12 - 06:16 PM
Greg F. 09 Dec 12 - 06:17 PM
gnu 09 Dec 12 - 06:31 PM
bobad 09 Dec 12 - 07:20 PM
gnu 09 Dec 12 - 07:47 PM
ollaimh 09 Dec 12 - 08:12 PM
gnu 09 Dec 12 - 08:50 PM
Greg F. 09 Dec 12 - 09:01 PM
Greg F. 09 Dec 12 - 09:04 PM
Rapparee 09 Dec 12 - 09:40 PM
Jack the Sailor 09 Dec 12 - 09:41 PM
gnu 09 Dec 12 - 10:26 PM
Jack the Sailor 10 Dec 12 - 03:42 AM
Greg F. 10 Dec 12 - 08:46 AM
Greg F. 10 Dec 12 - 08:55 AM
Greg F. 10 Dec 12 - 09:15 AM
Charmion 10 Dec 12 - 09:40 AM
GUEST,leeneia 10 Dec 12 - 10:19 AM
Rapparee 10 Dec 12 - 12:45 PM
Greg F. 10 Dec 12 - 05:07 PM
gnu 10 Dec 12 - 06:49 PM
pdq 10 Dec 12 - 07:02 PM
Greg F. 10 Dec 12 - 07:10 PM
gnu 10 Dec 12 - 09:18 PM
Rapparee 10 Dec 12 - 10:49 PM
Jack the Sailor 10 Dec 12 - 11:46 PM
Greg F. 11 Dec 12 - 10:04 AM
GUEST,leeneia 11 Dec 12 - 10:39 AM
Greg F. 11 Dec 12 - 05:56 PM

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Subject: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 03:06 AM

I understand they can become rabid. They're all over the place here. Got 2 of my cats. What do you do about them? I'm in town, so I can't run around with a rifle.
Scary Things!


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 04:34 AM

Has it ever occurred to you, Henry, that the coyotes may have a problem with you?


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 04:56 AM

I've been in the woods and been stalked by one. He had no fear. Stared at me.
I got out of there. He was about 20 feet away.
=(:-( o)


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 05:14 AM

Beep! Beep!


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 05:32 AM

If two will attack and kill a poor woman, what about the children?
=(:-( o)


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 05:57 AM

Supposedly they'll get in your watermelon patch.
Watermelon Thieves


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: kendall
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 07:27 AM

If you are attacked, go for its eyes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Becca72
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 09:22 AM

Keep your cats inside and stay outta the woods. Coyotes got just as much right to "be" as any of us.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 09:28 AM

I like it in the woods. I have as much right to be there as any damned wild animal.
=(:-( 0)


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 09:28 AM

I think that probably true, Becca. But how far can one reasonably extend that principle? Rats? Malarial mosquitoes? I ask not for contentious reasons, but genuinely to know where you, and maybe others, think such parameters should be set.

~M~


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 09:47 AM


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Rapparee
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 09:48 AM

If a wild animal acts in a manner very different from its normal pattern (e.g., a bat attacks you) it might very well be rabid and you would do well to try to capture or kill it (without damaging the brain) and deliver it to your local public health people.

However, if a coyote follows you it means that it thinks you might be or might become food. Or it could be in love with you or think you have dog biscuits in your pocket. On the other hand, if you're near its den you might be considered a threat to the babies and it WILL attack, just as a bear or even a mouse would.

If you go down in the woods today and you are worried about being attacked, pack a pistol and shoot INTO THE GROUND (not into the air, for what goes up must come down and it might come down on someone's head). Or carry a blank starter pistol. Or a very loud whistle. Or a portable marine boat horn.

If you ARE attacked (unlikely), do as Kendall said and go for the eyes. Use a stick as a spear. Fight back, but note: this does not apply to bears! I suggest you read up on the subject of animal attacks.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 09:50 AM

They are considered an invasive non native species.
A pest. Few restrictions on hunting them.
=(:-( ))


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 10:05 AM

If you're anywhere in North America. Crank-El, they're a native species. You're the invasive.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 10:16 AM

They aren't native here. They are replacing this nearly extinct animal.
Red Wolf


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 10:24 AM

Henry:
I like it in the woods. I have as much right to be there as any damned wild animal.


Yep, you've got the same rights in the woods as any wild animal. That includes the right to be killed and eaten by another member of the food chain.
Your 'legal rights' don't mean much to animals!


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 10:27 AM

I'll be fine with that. It's as good a way to go as any.
=(:-( ))


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 10:43 AM

read your own article, Crank-El:

"In May 2011, an analysis of red wolf, Eastern wolf, gray wolf, and dog genomes revealed that the red wolf was 76-80 percent coyote and only 20-24 percent gray wolf, suggesting that the red wolf is actually much more coyote in origin than the Eastern wolf."


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 10:46 AM

Blablablah!
=(:-( 0)


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 10:57 AM

yeah, but its YOUR blah, blah, blah, Crank-El.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 11:01 AM

Because of the huge coyote population,any reintroduction of the Red Wolf is hopeless, I think.
=(:-( 0)


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 11:05 AM

Because of the huge coyote population,any reintroduction of the Red Wolf is hopeless, I think.

There is no real proof of that statement, it is pure supposition.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 11:11 AM

I hope so. For the Red Wolf's sake.
=(:-( 0)


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 11:15 AM

We are quite literally in the middle of the woods -- 33 acres of trees and rock on a south slope in Nottingham, New Hampshuh.

There are a lot of coyotes around, but we've never had any problems with them. Raccoons, foxes or skunks are more likely to be rabid. Just stay away from sick acting animals. I started keeping our very savvy lady cat, Sabine, inside a few years ago after spotting a fisher cat (variety of martin) very close to the back quarterdeck.

Biggest coyote I ever saw was trotting down the sidewalk on Rte 33 in Portsmouth, which is a pretty decent-sized city. It wasn't very far from Borthwick Ave. where both the hospital and several large medical buildings are. There have been problems with coyotes harrassing people in those parking lots. I did a double take when I saw this guy -- he was HUGE. Size of a large German shepherd. My first thought was "wolf". And a bit of a shock to see it right alongside a busy highway in a mixed business and residential area.

Then again, all the black bear I see are right in the thick of civilization, too. I know we have them in our woods, but I've never seen them there.

Linn


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 11:18 AM

And you haven't been eaten yet, have you, Linn?


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 11:35 AM

They aren't supposed to get bigger than about 40 lbs. The one I saw in the woods looke big as a German Shepherd too. Scary.
=(:-( O)


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 12:04 PM

We have a fair number of both deer and coyotes right in downtown Wichita, Kansas on occasion. 'Possums are just about everywhere in town, and I've been forced to "dispatch" one that aggressively attacked our dog a few years back. Raccons aren't too common in town but are seen occasionally. (I've seen more dense 'coon populations in downtown Philadelphia.)

Some time ago, we found a porcupine dozing in front of the door to the Courthouse in Boulder Colorado. (We assumed he(?) was waiting for them to open so he could file a complaint about a Krinkle.)

Skunks aren't much more common here (in town visibly) than Armadillos. The skunks are natives, but the Armadillos are immigrants from Texas mostly - hence somewhat unwanted.

Eagles nest nearby, and one pair nested on top of a downtown building for several years.

The most "objectionable" are perhaps the half dozen flocks (50+ per flock) of GEESE that local idiots have been feeding long enough that they've forgotten how to migrate as good geese should do. (That stuff is really sticky when you step on a fresh one, and some small ponds have suffered major algae blooms that kills the fish, from all the gooseshit.)

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: kendall
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 12:10 PM

We live in the country, plenty of woods out back, but I've only seen one Coyote. It appeared to be afraid of me, so I let it live.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 12:16 PM

It may have been a coyote/dog cross-breed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 12:23 PM

That was addressed to Bat Goddess.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 12:28 PM

We have copperheads too. Big ones.
=(:-( 0)


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: ollaimh
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 12:41 PM

i love any one who calls him crank-el

i rooting for the coyotes when crank-el is in the woods!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 12:43 PM

You're not very nice, ollie.
=(:-( /)


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 12:52 PM

The beasts that killed Taylor Mitchell (link in first message on thread) are called Eastern Coyote (Coywolf) and are a cross between Timber (grey) Wolves and coyotes. They grow much larger and stronger than the common coyote and they hunt in family packs like wolves.
Eastern Coyote (Coywolf)


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 03:59 PM

Forgive me Mudcat for taking Krinkle seriously even though we are just his puzzle and toy.   When I drive trough South Carolina they have public service announcements saying not to hunt coyotes at night because they look and act so much like red wolves. Perhaps they are not as endangered as you thought.

This article says the species may even be a cross between wolves and Coyotes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_wolf

Obviously Mr. Krinkle you have as much right to the woods as the coyote/wolf/dog, whatever it is. (Carol says it is probably a chupacabra) But animals being spared the pleasure of dealing with lawyers are blissfully unaware of your rights.

One of which is the right to bear arms. If it were me I would purchase a light, easy to carry, double barreled 410 gauge shot gun or pistol, one barrel to shoot into the ground as previously suggested, one barrel to "go for the eyes" as Kendall so sagely suggested.

The 410 would have plenty of stopping power for a dog or Coyote. It would not have the range to endanger distant people or animals with a missed shot.

Carol suggests that bear repellant, (large cans of pepper spray) would be effective with the side effect of not killing the animal. She always thinks of the humane way. She used to do animal rescue and work in a zoo.

If you do kill an attacking coyote. Save the head so that they can test it for rabies.

Did you know that most most US chupacabra sightings in the US turn out to be coyotes with extreme mange?


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 04:49 PM

In humans the condition called scabies is caused by the same mite.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 04:57 PM

More importantly, we should be supplying firearms to the coyotes so they can protect themselves from idiots like Crank-El.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: gnu
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 05:03 PM

Rap... "If you ARE attacked (unlikely), do as Kendall said and go for the eyes. Use a stick as a spear. Fight back, but note: this does not apply to bears!"

Sticks work well on bears if you only have a stick. Just don't go for the eyes... go for the mouth if you can, ie, if it's open.

There have been many threads in this forum with a lot of info and they are worth reading if you you think you may ever encounter a bear, yote, wolf, fox....

As for any wild animals owning any territory, I am of the opinion that I won't mess with them if they don't mess with me. Now, I respect their HOME territory and I KNOW there are places I just should not go into. And I don't do that. BUT, if I am there by mistake as when I explore new territory, I expect them to give me a break and I don't go back. If I am in "neutral" territory and they mess with me, they are dead. If they mess with me in my territory, I terminate them with extreme prejudice after appropriate warning(s).

Tree huggers who have never be amongst the trees or have never farmed are laughable to me. Hmmm... would be laughable if their ignorance wasn't so detrimental to folks that live off the land.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: pdq
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 05:23 PM

"If you do kill an attacking coyote. Save the head so that they can test it for rabies."


If you have to shoot a wild animal, other than a game animal, walk away as quickly as you can.

As soon as the body stops producing the normal gases such as CO2, the fleas jump to the first live replacement they can find, which will be you.

The fleas may carry plague, rabies or another ones of dozens of diseases.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 05:36 PM

Hmm good advice pdq. Call the wildlife people.

If you are worried about the legal aspects

Put the gun in the coyote's paws and claim it was suicide.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 07:06 PM

I didn't know you can get rabies from fleas.
=(:-( o)


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: gnu
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 07:17 PM

"If you have to shoot a wild animal, other than a game animal,..."

Huh?


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 09:52 PM

Good point Gnu. Deer don't have ticks and fleas?


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: GUEST,marks(on the road)
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 11:33 PM

Listen to "A Cowboys Paean" by Tom Rush on his "Trolling for Owls" CD. Solve all your coyote problems.
You might get a free listen on Amazon - could not find it in the Digitrad or on You Tube.
Mark


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: ollaimh
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 12:04 AM

when i lived in the deep remote rocky mountains with grizzly bear neighbours and lots of black bears. there were coyotes and timber wolves, although never at the same time.

they used to call grizzlies fool killers. there were people who would say they had as much right to be in the woods as bears, and they's get killed every now and then if you live in wild country you have take notice of what's around and act intelligently. i had no guns. i did share a pack of a dozen or so malamutes(we sold them occasionally so the number varried), most predators will veer aroung big dogs and take the eaay route. in the winter when i was cross country skying i would see timber wolves fairly close--for about ten seconds. they don't hang around. very imressive animals. when grizzlies were around i made as wide a berth as possible.grizzlies actually waken once or twice in the winter, unlike black bears. that's when you really don't want to meet one, they are hungry then.

i was never bothered by coyotes, but if someone showed up with a gun theysatyed much further away. they understood what a gun was. you rarely see wolves near people and not for very long.

and crank-el, i like those grizzlies a lot more then i like you, and they made a lot more sense.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Rapparee
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 12:13 AM

Oh, hell's bells! We have wolf, grizzly and black bear, mountain lion, fox, coyote, skunk, and God alone knows what else in these here hills. The worst I came across was a rattlesnake and I threw that (living) into the river I was fishing. Yeah, I sometimes carry a pistol into the brush (sage, among other types), but I haven't had to use it on an animal yet -- the four-legged types will leave you alone unless a) you do something really stupid, like try to pet one or, b) they're rabid or otherwise sick.

In the animal world I'm more concerned with wasps or a spider in the outhouse than I am about being attacked by a coyote, mountain lion, or wolf.

On the other hand, I am far more concerned about two legged types because they're DAMNED unpredictable.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 12:20 AM

Well my sympathy is completely with Henry.

If I were you. I'd kill the bastards. Get a rocket launcher and an AK47 - blow the mangy canine away = in fact vaporise the bugger.

I have extensive knowledge of these beasts and I can tell you from grim experience that a coyote calling out means only one thing - you are about to be attacked by Indians!

In fact get the weapons out and put up the shutters. Its quiet out there - too quiet!

zoom! thud!


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 12:42 AM

Apparently I stand a better chance of being attacked by feral dogs.
They are the same species as the wolf. A pack killed an elderly couple near here.
=(:-( O)


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 12:47 AM

The Coyote's side

The Mark Twain quote at the start is brilliant!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: gnu
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 04:20 AM

Virginia Whitetail deer often have ticks that carry Lyme disease. Don't know about fleas.

Rap... when you kill one a them there spiders, mount the antlers on the outhouse as a warning to the others and Bob's yer uncle.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: GUEST,big Al Whittle
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 05:06 AM

'Apparently I stand a better chance of being attacked by feral dogs.'

no way to speak of your fellow mudcatters, henry!


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 05:26 AM

MudCATTERS.MEOW!
=(:-( D)


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 07:04 AM

"In the animal world I'm more concerned with wasps or a spider in the outhouse than I am about being attacked by a coyote, mountain lion, or wolf."

I agree with that, Rap, but ollaimh's grizzlies outta be added to your wasp and spider list, particularly the winter grizzlies. They aren't 'particular' eaters if you catch my drift.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 07:15 AM

Thank God I live in England!


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 08:19 AM

Hi, Pete. It's not as bad as it sounds. Threads of this nature bring out the stories--all true I don't doubt--but they are stories from people who have been where the various animals live. Don't interfere with their lives and they won't interfere with yours. Most of the tales involve people who have chanced upon one or more of the bigger creatures that would certainly dine on human should the opportunity present itself. I live in Canada (also the US for five years way back) and have spent about eight years total in what can be called wilderness territory. In that time, by a quick count, I have encountered two black bears, one cougar (it was making tracks to go elsewhere), a half dozen or so coyotes, three wolves, one bobcat and that's about all. I always wanted to see a lynx but they are very elusive. I heard a grizzly once and I got the heck out of there. They definitely make me nervous.

Sometimes I was carrying a gun, but not often. As a few people have mentioned, keep your wits about you, pay attention to what you're doing, store your food away from where you sleep and things will be good. It's when these creatures get used to people that problems occur. A natural fear/caution/respect is healthy for both parties.

I awoke one morning in Yosemite National Park (California) with bear tracks near my sleeping bag. The bears have become used to people and lost their fear of us. That's too bad. I've met people who proudly show snapshots of themselves approaching elk, sheep, deer and even one guy trying to get friendly with a moose. I call them lupids. They're a hybrid: LUcky to be showing the snapshots and stuPID for being in them.

I would opine that there are more dog attacks on people in North America than wild animal attacks. They are really quite rare given the numbers of people who venture into parks and some wild country. Often they are--as ollaimh alluded to--a little green and perhaps a bit to entranced by the 'oneness of all nature's creatures'. Wild animals are just that: wild. Don't get between them and where they've always gone and you'll be ok. They spend their lives looking for food. No point confusing them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 08:33 AM

Feral dogs....They are the same species as the wolf.

No, Crank-El, they most assuredly are not.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 08:43 AM

Not what I read. Domesticated wolves.
=(:-( P)


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 09:16 AM

Canis lupus has about forty subspecies. Canis lupus familiaris is one of them. Feral dogs are domestic dogs that have gone wild. When they cross-breed with wolves or coyotes they can often inherit the smarts of the wolf or coyote and because they have little fear of people from their 'domesticus' background they can be very dangerous. Fido ain't yer lapdog no more.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 09:23 AM

They are the same species, Greg. Or cross breeding would be impossible.
Like negroes and caucasians. Same species. Homo Sapiens.
=(:-( ))


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 09:30 AM

One is a descendant of the other, much as modern humans are likely a result of both European Early Modern Humans (Cro-Magnon) and possibly Neanderthals. No point splitting hairs.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 09:37 AM

Again, I've been living in the middle of the woods, 33 acres of trees and rock, in Nottingham, New Hampshire (southern part of the state -- midway between Portsmouth and Concord).

The closest I've come to being threatened by wild animals was the persistence of and refusal to pay rent by a bunch of flying squirrels who set up housekeeping in the dormer. Gray squirrels tear around the outside of the house and peer in the windows and make faces at the cats. We also had/have a gray squirrel "terrarium" between the inner and outer panes in a window in the living room. It's kinda cool to watch mama rear her younguns from nursing stage to teaching them how to leave the window. We also had a nursery colony of Little Brown Bats in the peak of the roof. The only danger there is the thought of the amount of fertilizer above my head. Since the house was tightened up and the peak of the bedroom ceiling sealed last year, that's not something that really concerns me. Thought for a while there, though, that we should get a grant or something as a wildlife refuge.

A young opossum ran up to Tom's feet one night when he came home from The Press Room. He looked up at Tom, thought to himself "This isn't Mom" and hightailed it under the deck. Early one summer morning I stepped out onto the quarterdeck with a cup of tea in my hand and saw movement to the left -- some smallish white critter was weaving between my flower pots. At first I thought it was a cat, but it turned out to be an almost all white skunk. We watched each other. I stood there with my tea and he kept an eye on me as he crossed the deck in front of me and disappeared down the steps and under the deck.

We've had good-sized raccoons, porcupines, woodchucks (not the Vermont variety), fox, fishers and a couple normal-sized coyotes. There have been troops (parades?) of wild turkeys. The beaver stay on the other side of the road in the marshy ponds off Gravel Pit Road (which is too rough for cars). Deer regularly nibble my hostas, but I'm trying to put a stop to that. Or else they tear across the driveway as if being chased by Elmer Fudd and leap the stone wall uphill into my neighbor's field above us.

The moose hang out around the power lines. I've only seen them when they come out to graze in the marsh I can see from Rte. 4. Black bear seem to like the more populated areas -- an adolescent dashed across Rte 125 in front of me within sight of Lee Traffic Circle and a couple shopping centers. Another full grown one was in a grassy area close to Sagamore Golf Course on the ocean side of I-95.

The most dangerous to ME are the deer when they cross the road in front of my car. Twice I've had as close of an encounter as you can have without doing damage to neither deer nor car. The last time the doe jumped out of nowhere (wooded area) and landed smack in front of me -- driver's side of the car and I was going about 35mph. Before I could even respond, she was gone in a clatter of tiny hooves. (It was July and my car windows were open.) Only by the grace of God and the fact she was going like a bat out of hell saved both of us. Now THAT was scary. At night I watch for shadows or eyes up ahead...

Mostly leave 'em alone and you'll be okay. If the animal is not acting normal or seems sick, call the animal officer, police or Fish & Game. Don't do anything stupid.

We've got bobcats out there, too, and at least one Eastern Mountain Lion although no one will officially admit it. But they're shy and don't like to be seen (while they're keeping the deer and other populations down).

Linn


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 09:59 AM

Ya mean like Donkeys and Horses, Crank-El?


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 11:11 AM

I mean like you and the Norway Rat.
=(:-( ))


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 11:12 AM

They took one off the highway killed by a car here that was over 90 lbs. I suspect what they are calling coyotes here are wolves. We have lots and lots of coyotes but is suspect seeing them and the tracks and the fact they are running in a pack that it is wolves that people are saying big big coyotes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 11:14 AM

I've travelled through New Hampshire. One of the prettiest places I've ever been. Vermont is nice too.
=(:-( ))


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 11:15 AM

Glad to hear it's not as bad as some stories make out, 999.

I agree with Bat Godess about the deer. A few years ago I was going South down the M5 in Devon, in lane 3 (the "outside" lane) when a huge deer came leaping over the barrier and landed on the front of my car. Made a right mess of the car but a split second later and it would have been throught the windscreen and I wouldn't be typing this...How it made it across the three lanes on the northbound side in the first place I'll never know. Scary.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 11:19 AM

I would like to see Red Wolves return.
=(:-( ))


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 11:28 AM

Yesterday I might have agreed with Krinkle about the species thing, but Carol straightened me out. The lines between species, especially subspecies are not all that all that clear. As it turns out, while may matings are fruitless and some are sterile, some can produce fertile offspring and of those that do can possess a blend of survival traits more adapted to conditions than either parent. Those would tend to thrive. A possible example being the Red Wolf.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 11:29 AM

Google "University of Arkansas Jonesboro football"


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 01:05 PM

Speaking as a big bad wolf
I think you should respect the gulf
Between the likes of me and the prairie dog
So jot these details in your blog!
A coyote creeps up and gives a fright
It also has a nasty bite.
Whereas I have pleasant features,
All of us wolves are kindly creatures.
we howl at the moon, most every night
But thats lupine tradition, that's our right.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: gnu
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 01:38 PM

You Tube "deer jump over". They just appear in your face.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 02:52 PM

It is interesting that Crank-el said "Norway" rat. Don't the legends of trolls originate from up around Norway?


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Rapparee
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 05:18 PM

For US $75.00 I can buy a whole coyote pelt. For about $20 I can buy an entire skunk pelt (unscented). For considerably more I can buy an entire black bear pelt.

Don't need any of them. I might buy the coyote pelt if I could use it to scare Hank, tho.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 05:40 PM

How much for a Norway rat pelt?


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 08:57 PM

Those are free, sailor boy. Every time you catch and eat one. Free pelt. Like the free prize in every box of Cracker Jack.
=(:-( P)


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 10:22 PM

Of course that would be cannibalism for you, Krinkle cut.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 11:37 PM

No. That would be Greg.
=(:-( ))


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 07 Dec 12 - 07:32 AM

No regrets coyote...!


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 07 Dec 12 - 12:09 PM

Hi, Henry. How many cats do you have? Do you have a colony, like might be on a farm, or do you have a small number, that might become housepets?

1. The best thing for the cats and for birds is to keep them in your house. The cats stay healthier, are more affectionate, and the birds can raise their young in safety. You've got to get them neutered, of course.

2. If that's not possible, I found a site where the Cheyenne Zoo sells big-cat feces. Buy some and put in around the yard. The coyotes will smell it and say "Mountain lions, tigers! We're out of here!"

http://www.cmzoo.org/conservation/action/ZooDoo.asp

However, it occurs to me it might freak out your kitties, too.

What to do, what to do...


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 07 Dec 12 - 12:17 PM

My housemate's cats. She has 4 now.
I would keep them in if they were mine.
=(:-( /)


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Rapparee
Date: 07 Dec 12 - 01:35 PM

Rats are quite edible -- it's your cultural bias that prevents you from enjoying them. Do a web search for ways to cook rats and mice. Maggots are also edible and are 90% protein.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 07 Dec 12 - 01:45 PM

Leena, I'm not doubting you, But how do coyotes know what tiger poop smells like?


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: pdq
Date: 07 Dec 12 - 01:57 PM

There is a yard spray sold out here in the West that is supposed to be derived from Mountain Lion urine.

I know unemployment is high, but I suspect than involves is a job that is hard to fill.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 07 Dec 12 - 06:57 PM

Jack, the big-cat poop includes mountain lion poop, which a coyote probably recognizes. I'm pretty sure tiger poop gives off the same "great big predator" signals.

From observing my pet cats, I see that they have instincitve reactions which I cannot begin to understand. For example, there used to be a fire house near me whose engines sounded strangely like coyotes howling at the moon. My cat was terrified whenever she heard those sirens, but she had never been near a coyote in her life. How did she know?

My current cat was scared recently by a recording an owl. (We live in a big city.) Again, how did she know? Instinct, but how does it work?
============
Henry, you seem to be between a rock and a hard place. I know! Tell your housemate to pay for the big-cat poop and give her the responsibility of spreading it. I bet she goes for indoor cats in no time.

Four sounds like quite a few, though.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Dec 12 - 06:30 AM

There once was alittle coyoat
A small prairie dog, you will note
He liked spreading diseases
Cos millions of fleasies
Were living a life in his coat.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 08 Dec 12 - 06:34 AM

Groan!

:-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: gnu
Date: 08 Dec 12 - 06:48 AM

leeneia... "Jack, the big-cat poop includes mountain lion poop, which a coyote probably recognizes. I'm pretty sure tiger poop gives off the same "great big predator" signals."

Sure does! Cat poop is cat poop. Big cat poop is big cat poop. Signal acheived.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 08 Dec 12 - 12:57 PM

The only way I figure that tiger poop would work is if it had little chunks of coyote in it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: ollaimh
Date: 08 Dec 12 - 03:56 PM

you rarely see mountain lions. i never saw one when i lived in the rockies. when i lived a few hundred miles further south there was a sick and old one that started killing chickens. it likely had lost the baility ti hunt. locals shot it. there are the occasional stories out of the british columbis and alberta rockies of maountain lion attacks on humans. they are c\anny predators and will rarely be seen ntill they kill you. luckily that's rare. howeevr i had a young daughter when i lived in the rockies and i used to walk her to the school bus and meet her to walk back(about a quarter mile) just in case. we did have a deer living in a copse of trees nearby, so i took that as a sigh there wasn't a mountain lion aroundm but better safe than sorry.

i have nothing against maountain lions, they have as much right to be here as me but i'd rather they eat someone esle==like crank-el.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 08 Dec 12 - 04:38 PM

Oh, ollie.
You can eat me too.
Raw.
=(:-( o)


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: gnu
Date: 08 Dec 12 - 05:08 PM

You should take up the bottle, Hank. Can't hurt.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 08 Dec 12 - 05:19 PM

No. That stuff is poison.
You can have my share.
=(:-( ))


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 08 Dec 12 - 08:09 PM

"No. That stuff is poison."

Maybe that's why he wants you to drink it? :-D


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 08 Dec 12 - 08:10 PM

I think perhaps Krink meant "Peyote Problems"


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 09 Dec 12 - 12:47 AM

So, did they relegalize peyote? Can native Americans trip out on it legally again?
I know Daddy Bush outlawed it.
=(:-( 0)


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: pdq
Date: 09 Dec 12 - 10:22 AM

"Apparently I stand a better chance of being attacked by feral dogs.
They are the same species as the wolf. A pack killed an elderly couple near here.
=(:-( O)"



Well, they are considered that in today's classification scheme.

We must assume that DNA evidence has been responsible for the changes, but in reality, most taxonomists feel the need to change the status of something now and the just to prove they are relevant.

Rarely does a new worker in a field look at a group and say "everything looks right to me" and leave things alone.

I learned them as Canis domesticus (pet dogs), Canis latrans (coyote) and Canis lupus (wolf). Now the domestic dog is called Canis lupus familiaris, the same species as a wolf. Canis domesticus is not used anymore.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 09 Dec 12 - 12:03 PM

Dogs and wolves interbreed and produce fertile offspring.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: pdq
Date: 09 Dec 12 - 03:24 PM

I know it sounds like a definition dreamed up by Ambrose Bierce, but a species is "whatever the ranking expert on a given group says it is".

Members of different genera are usually unable to produce fertile offspring. See Liger and Tigeron.

It is more likely that different species within a genus can, but not always. Coyotes and Wolves seem to breed with no problems.

Subspecies should be able breed fully with each other since the criteria are usually just color variations and locality.

It has been said that "propinguity is the mother of romance" (Steven Stills?), but there can be no interbreeding when subspecies occupy completely distinct and isolated territories.

A few hundred years ago, the Coyote was not found east of the Mississippi River (as far as I know). It is able to walk accross bridges on our great rivers. The Coyote is a invasive species in this case.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: gnu
Date: 09 Dec 12 - 05:15 PM

Oh, I clicked submit. And the post appeared at the top so I thought may post went through. Nope.

Anyway... I used to visit a lot of "coyote" dens (Eastern Brush Wolves to REAL experts like my old man) to watch the pups and was tolerated because I did it properly. One pack was over 15 in number and their dens were about 500m from where I camped. They are cool dogs. It humans who don't know what they are doing who are the problem.

NOW... THAT is in the woods. As far as these critters being close to human populations... not acceptable.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: pdq
Date: 09 Dec 12 - 06:16 PM

The following site looks like fun.

Lotsa stuff on birds, insects and even a real Coyote:

                                                                                 cute, eh?

People in Maine can check it out when it's below zero there and 84 degrees in Tucson.

Here is a site that you can use to find wildflower conditions in all our deserts:

                                                                                 http://www.desertusa.com/


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Dec 12 - 06:17 PM

Y'all got this backwards.

The real deal is that the Coyotes have a very serious human problem, and its getting worse all the time.

Same for a whole bunch of other wildlife.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: gnu
Date: 09 Dec 12 - 06:31 PM

Go live with the yotes if ya don't like being a human. I lived with em up country. When they get in my face, I kill em (only had to once... one dog... the rest were smart enough to learn a valuable lesson that day so *I* allowed the rest to live). Anyone got a problem with that ain't never been in the real woods and ain't farmed land in the real woods.

High and mighty talk from uneducated and inexperienced tree huggers don't impress this good ol country boy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: bobad
Date: 09 Dec 12 - 07:20 PM

I was just talking with my next door neighbour and he mentioned that a coyote has been hanging around his place fairly regularly and is often seen in his paddock with the horses. He was wondering if the 'yote was interested in the horses but I figure he may be more interested in what the horses leave in the field - my dog seems to find those buns tasty.

Here's a YouTube vid described as a coyote attack but it looks more like the healthy looking and well fed 'yote is more curious and playful rather than menacing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqVE9qfg7yI


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: gnu
Date: 09 Dec 12 - 07:47 PM

Oh, that yote was not playing. He was testing. His attempt at charging to invoke a flee and his attempt at the foot was allowed but if he could have upended the lad it may have ended differently.

I am a litlle pissed that buddy played with him like that. Imagine what will happen when that yote gets near a human child and has no fear. People who don't understand shouldn't "play" with wild animals. And, imagine if that was an Easter Brush Wolf (falsely called yotes here). He would come back with the pack in an hour or two and buddy would be s steaming pile of shit on the snow in about twelve hours. Sad, really.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: ollaimh
Date: 09 Dec 12 - 08:12 PM

when the devil hates you you know you are on the right track


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: gnu
Date: 09 Dec 12 - 08:50 PM

I totally agree... well, I would, maybe, if I knew what you were talking about.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Dec 12 - 09:01 PM

Gnews to me gnu.

I've lived in the bloody woods of far upstate NY damn near Canada all my life. See coyotes about every third day - or should I say eastern brush wolves in your chosen argot - within 100 yds of the house - never had a problem. Black bears not as frequently but here & also not a problem. All manner of other critters. Have hunted for 50 years, large and small game.

So tell ya what, gnu - take your "uneducated and inexperienced tree huggers who've never been in the real woods" & shove 'em up far your ass & give 'em a couple of good twists, OK?

Then bugger off.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Dec 12 - 09:04 PM

On second thought, Mr. High and Mighty gnu- why don't you look up the statistics on the number of actual documented, instead of fantasy, coyote attacks on humans in, say, the last 10 years & report back to us.

THEN you can bugger off.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Rapparee
Date: 09 Dec 12 - 09:40 PM

Well, Greg, here's a Wikipedia article on such attacks. You can also find some good information here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 09 Dec 12 - 09:41 PM

Canada, is a big country Greg F, Its more than 800 miles from Gnu's place to upstate New York. Are the Coyotes in both places the same? You have nothing but speculation.


As for you seeing Coyotes, as shy as they are, three times a day, makes me want to tell you about my annual encounter with a chubby elf in a Reindeer powered aircraft with Canadian Ministry of Transport approved running and landing lights. Are you sure it wasn't your neighbor's dachshunds?


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: gnu
Date: 09 Dec 12 - 10:26 PM

Gerg F... if you don't know the difference between a yote and a wolf I should say you don't know squat either. I was commenting on the twit in the video... are you saying you approve of that twit's behaviour? If so, don't bugger off, get some help... you say you live in the woods? Surely someone there can teach you something about how to deal with and respect wild animals.

I find it hard to believe you actually have the experience you say you do and you seem to say you condone that twit in the video playing with that yote the way he did... seriously... one way or another, yer yankin my chain. No?


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 10 Dec 12 - 03:42 AM

Coywolves are a bigger threats than coyotes, which are in turn a bigger threat than Greg F's neighbor's dachshunds.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Dec 12 - 08:46 AM

Hey, Rap - I said evidence - not Blog-O-Pedia.

But even assuming yhey are correct (albeit a large assumption) now do look up the number of hunmans, adults included, that are killed and maimed by domestic dogs on an annual basis.

So once we've killed off all the domestic dogs - a REAL invasive species-, we can tackle the much more minute coyote problem.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Dec 12 - 08:55 AM

Hullo, Jack - well the genetic studies I'bve read seen to suggest that the genetic mix of the coyptes (or "brush Wolves as gnu persistes in calling 'em) in both places are a pretty similar mix of grey wolf & coyote. "Coy-EWolves? please - most Eastern Coyotes have had an admixture of wolf DNA for quite some time.

As for frequency of sightings- one sighting approximately "every third day" is two to three times a week, not three times a day, genius.

Learn to comprehend the English language before spewing out a tirade of snide and meaningless bullshit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Dec 12 - 09:15 AM

And finally gnu-

Where did you get the impression I don't know the difference between what used to be called in my bilology/taxonomy classes canis latrans and canis lupus? Certainly nothing I've posted here suggests any such thing.

Similarly, what is your assertion that I "approve of that twit's behaviour" based on? I didn't comment on the video AT ALL, pro or con. But for your information, yes, I think the guy is a real asshole.

In point of fact, 99% of the interactions between wild animals and humans that result in injury to humans are the result of the human acting the asshole in one way or another.

As for "dangerous" animals in the woods, in 50 years of hunting and extended backpack camping in NY, VT, NH, northern ME, and elsewhere in the lower 48, I've had serious problems that might have resulted in injury with only two species: domestic dogs and humans. The latter were considerably more dangerous. Oh yeah, and once I got too close to a porcupine - but that was entirely my own fault.

In general, I've always been amused that a good number of the rough-and-tough, brawny woodsman types are actually afraid of wild animals.
Perhaps THEY should saty out of the woods, or move to the cities.

Ta,

G.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Charmion
Date: 10 Dec 12 - 09:40 AM

There's no respite from wildlife in city life, Greg -- at least not in Canada. Our old tomcat got skunked a few weeks ago right in his own back yard, in the downest downtown this town has to offer. Moose are occasionally spotted in our suburbs; deer are common. Raccoons are so common the city has invested serious time, energy and public money in developing coon-proof bins for compostable waste. Bears are uncommon in city limits, but not unknown.

In eastern Ontario, coyotes are a problem mainly to farmers. I know people who raise sheep near Oxford Station, and they need guard dogs to protect their woolly investment from the wily critters. (The dogs do a good job.) Every now and then the Toronto-centred media get frantic about coyotes in the ravines that criss-cross the city, but I've never read an account of a coyote attack on a human. Maybe Torontonians are smart enough to avoid them; I think it more likely the coyotes are smart enough to avoid the Torontonians.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 10 Dec 12 - 10:19 AM

"I was commenting on the twit in the video"

I agree with gnu 100%. That's a wild animal in the video. They don't know if it's aching with hunger, or sick. They don't even understand its NORMAL fears and behaviors.

They should leave it alone.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Rapparee
Date: 10 Dec 12 - 12:45 PM

I doubt, Greg, that a group working with the University of Ohio Extension Services and the Wildlife Foundation are equivalent to Wikipedia.

But since you did ask, here's an article from the USDA. Here's a tidbit from down under (U. of Queensland). And finally, here's some words from Vermont; a nice bibliography is included, as are comparisons between human/dog and human/coyote interactions.

Here's an article from "National Geographic News" for you to think about -- and the similar reports from Chicagoland this past September and October.

Finally, the problem is rarely with the animals but with the humans who interact with them. A mountain goat faced me down in Glacier National Park; I left. I have no desire nor need to pet a bear cub or tease a bison -- I'll leave that to those whom the gene pool is better without.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Dec 12 - 05:07 PM

So, Rap:

Agreed! Damn near anything has more validity than Blog-O-Pedia.

However:

1. , the problem is rarely with the animals but with the humans who interact with them.

Uh yeah, that's what I said. Several times. You're obviously still having problems comprehending the English language.

2.We're not talking about Australia. Wake up. Strike two

3. The article on California doesn't signify, the western coyote has had no cross-breeding with the grey wolf; nothing whatsoever to do with the current discussion. In addition, the California situation is a perfect example where the relentless spread of yuppie suburbia into wild areas impinges upon the wild animals concerned. Perfect example of why humans are the problem, not the coyotes. That and idiootic humans not respecting or knowing bugger-all about the resident population of wildlife..

4. From your Vermont article Quote : statistics indicate that the chances of being attacked by a coyote are far less that that of being attacked by a domestic pet. Guess you missed that. Statistics would also indicate that you're more likely to be struck by lightening twice on the same day and/or be abducted by space aliens than that of being attacked by a coyote.

5. An anamolous cougar in Chicago - assuming the tabloid story is true, also has nothing to do with the point under discussion.

6. .None of the things you've posted address the point I raised, that it is more likely for a person to be killed or injured by a domestic dog, horse, or goat than by a wolf, coyote, ort the mythical Coy-Dog or Coy-wolf.

Strike five, you're out. But thanks for playing.

And hey, just stay out of the woods, weenie - it ain't safe for the likes of you out there.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: gnu
Date: 10 Dec 12 - 06:49 PM

Well, Greg F... I WAS a "rough-and-tough, brawny woodsman" when I was a young man and I spect as much time in the bush as any of them. Fact is, you took what I said and pissed with it then and pissed on it.

Only difference is, I am a gentleman and I admit to my mistakes rather than hide behind bullshit to save face.

Soooo.... if you really were not shitting on me beacause I was dissing the asshole in the video... why were you shitting on me?

Oh... your question about "where you said that"... "See coyotes about every third day - or should I say eastern brush wolves in your chosen argot". Come on, Greg... get in the game.

I'll stop there. Fact is, from what you have said, you are an avid woodsman. I used to live and breathe it too, until health problems took it from me. I am sure, under different circumstances, we would "bond". But, buddy boy, I just cannot accept yer arguements in the way you state them. Yotes ain't wolves. Our "yotes" eat livestock, prey AND people. They ARE NOT yotes... the are wolves. Don't tell me OUR yotes ain't wolves.

Maybe we need to hash it out over a beer. If I ever get down to your neck of the woods, first round is on you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: pdq
Date: 10 Dec 12 - 07:02 PM

A new gnu?

Who knew!

Good on you, gnu.

Must be near Christmas.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Dec 12 - 07:10 PM

Gnu, I'll gladly stand a round or three, and I ain't shitting on you then or now. "Hide behind bullshit"?... c'mon Bud; say wha???

I never said that coyotes are are wolves; where the hell are you getting that fom? I'm starting to feel like an extra in Cool Hand Luke.

Be well,

Greg


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: gnu
Date: 10 Dec 12 - 09:18 PM

Well... I thought my last post cleared it up but I guess I'll just have to leave it there. I can't say it any more clearly.

In any case, allow me to recap my position on yotes, bears, moose, skunks, porcupique la... I AM the alpha. I OWN my ground and whatever ground I choose. I accept that I must live in harmony for the good of all, including me, and I always have done so. But, when "animal" or "human" gets in my face and it's unwarranted, I AM the alpha. Period.

BTW, I am a tree hugger but I know which trees to hug and which trees to use for firewood.

gnightgnu


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Rapparee
Date: 10 Dec 12 - 10:49 PM

Fact is, Greg, cougars have been reported in Illinois since at least 1960. I know that because a friend's father came face-to-face with one in a Boy Scout Camp outside Lorraine, IL. Cat never hurt anyone; the Scouts nicknamed it Alfie (for Alfred E. Neuman) and everyone lived harmoniously for years.

Cougars -- mountain lions, panthers, painters, pumas -- were in one form or another widespread across the US before the hand of man set foot. They are indigenous to Florida, for example, and still live there.

I don't think the Chicago "Tribune" would like being called a tabloid.

Do your own research. I retired from looking it up.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 10 Dec 12 - 11:46 PM

Greg. You are full of shit. you did not see three a day or three a week or three a month or three a year.

You say the neighbor's dog.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Dec 12 - 10:04 AM

Sez you, Jack. Fine. Now bugger off.

cougars have been reported in Illinois since at least 1960

So has sasquatch, Rap. And Deer Woman. And Elvis, I think in 1992.
Cougars have also been "reported" in N ew York State.

Pardon me if I don't understand what you think they have to do with Coyotes?


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 11 Dec 12 - 10:39 AM

We had a cougar in a woodsy area east of Kansas City. Two men had owned it, probably illegally, then dumped it when they broke up.

A spokesman from the state Department of Conservation told me recently that most cougars seen in settled areas are animals like that. Most likely their teeth have been filed, their claws have been removed, they can't hunt, and they are starving.

I've heard a rumor that "pet" cougars are favorites of drug dealsers. Wouldn't surprise me.

Anybody who sees a cougar where it shouldn't be should report it, for the animal's sake and for the sake of people it might hurt in its desperation.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Dec 12 - 05:56 PM

By the way, Jack, our only neighbors doesn't own any dogs- they raise Alpacas. That's probably what I'm mistaking for the coyotes.


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