BS: Coyote Problems?

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: GUEST,big Al Whittle
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 05:06 AM

'Apparently I stand a better chance of being attacked by feral dogs.'

no way to speak of your fellow mudcatters, henry!

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 05:26 AM

MudCATTERS.MEOW!
=(:-( D)

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 07:04 AM

"In the animal world I'm more concerned with wasps or a spider in the outhouse than I am about being attacked by a coyote, mountain lion, or wolf."

I agree with that, Rap, but ollaimh's grizzlies outta be added to your wasp and spider list, particularly the winter grizzlies. They aren't 'particular' eaters if you catch my drift.

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 07:15 AM

Thank God I live in England!

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 08:19 AM

Hi, Pete. It's not as bad as it sounds. Threads of this nature bring out the stories--all true I don't doubt--but they are stories from people who have been where the various animals live. Don't interfere with their lives and they won't interfere with yours. Most of the tales involve people who have chanced upon one or more of the bigger creatures that would certainly dine on human should the opportunity present itself. I live in Canada (also the US for five years way back) and have spent about eight years total in what can be called wilderness territory. In that time, by a quick count, I have encountered two black bears, one cougar (it was making tracks to go elsewhere), a half dozen or so coyotes, three wolves, one bobcat and that's about all. I always wanted to see a lynx but they are very elusive. I heard a grizzly once and I got the heck out of there. They definitely make me nervous.

Sometimes I was carrying a gun, but not often. As a few people have mentioned, keep your wits about you, pay attention to what you're doing, store your food away from where you sleep and things will be good. It's when these creatures get used to people that problems occur. A natural fear/caution/respect is healthy for both parties.

I awoke one morning in Yosemite National Park (California) with bear tracks near my sleeping bag. The bears have become used to people and lost their fear of us. That's too bad. I've met people who proudly show snapshots of themselves approaching elk, sheep, deer and even one guy trying to get friendly with a moose. I call them lupids. They're a hybrid: LUcky to be showing the snapshots and stuPID for being in them.

I would opine that there are more dog attacks on people in North America than wild animal attacks. They are really quite rare given the numbers of people who venture into parks and some wild country. Often they are--as ollaimh alluded to--a little green and perhaps a bit to entranced by the 'oneness of all nature's creatures'. Wild animals are just that: wild. Don't get between them and where they've always gone and you'll be ok. They spend their lives looking for food. No point confusing them.

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 08:33 AM

Feral dogs....They are the same species as the wolf.

No, Crank-El, they most assuredly are not.

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 08:43 AM

Not what I read. Domesticated wolves.
=(:-( P)

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 09:16 AM

Canis lupus has about forty subspecies. Canis lupus familiaris is one of them. Feral dogs are domestic dogs that have gone wild. When they cross-breed with wolves or coyotes they can often inherit the smarts of the wolf or coyote and because they have little fear of people from their 'domesticus' background they can be very dangerous. Fido ain't yer lapdog no more.

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 09:23 AM

They are the same species, Greg. Or cross breeding would be impossible.
Like negroes and caucasians. Same species. Homo Sapiens.
=(:-( ))

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 09:30 AM

One is a descendant of the other, much as modern humans are likely a result of both European Early Modern Humans (Cro-Magnon) and possibly Neanderthals. No point splitting hairs.

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 09:37 AM

Again, I've been living in the middle of the woods, 33 acres of trees and rock, in Nottingham, New Hampshire (southern part of the state -- midway between Portsmouth and Concord).

The closest I've come to being threatened by wild animals was the persistence of and refusal to pay rent by a bunch of flying squirrels who set up housekeeping in the dormer. Gray squirrels tear around the outside of the house and peer in the windows and make faces at the cats. We also had/have a gray squirrel "terrarium" between the inner and outer panes in a window in the living room. It's kinda cool to watch mama rear her younguns from nursing stage to teaching them how to leave the window. We also had a nursery colony of Little Brown Bats in the peak of the roof. The only danger there is the thought of the amount of fertilizer above my head. Since the house was tightened up and the peak of the bedroom ceiling sealed last year, that's not something that really concerns me. Thought for a while there, though, that we should get a grant or something as a wildlife refuge.

A young opossum ran up to Tom's feet one night when he came home from The Press Room. He looked up at Tom, thought to himself "This isn't Mom" and hightailed it under the deck. Early one summer morning I stepped out onto the quarterdeck with a cup of tea in my hand and saw movement to the left -- some smallish white critter was weaving between my flower pots. At first I thought it was a cat, but it turned out to be an almost all white skunk. We watched each other. I stood there with my tea and he kept an eye on me as he crossed the deck in front of me and disappeared down the steps and under the deck.

We've had good-sized raccoons, porcupines, woodchucks (not the Vermont variety), fox, fishers and a couple normal-sized coyotes. There have been troops (parades?) of wild turkeys. The beaver stay on the other side of the road in the marshy ponds off Gravel Pit Road (which is too rough for cars). Deer regularly nibble my hostas, but I'm trying to put a stop to that. Or else they tear across the driveway as if being chased by Elmer Fudd and leap the stone wall uphill into my neighbor's field above us.

The moose hang out around the power lines. I've only seen them when they come out to graze in the marsh I can see from Rte. 4. Black bear seem to like the more populated areas -- an adolescent dashed across Rte 125 in front of me within sight of Lee Traffic Circle and a couple shopping centers. Another full grown one was in a grassy area close to Sagamore Golf Course on the ocean side of I-95.

The most dangerous to ME are the deer when they cross the road in front of my car. Twice I've had as close of an encounter as you can have without doing damage to neither deer nor car. The last time the doe jumped out of nowhere (wooded area) and landed smack in front of me -- driver's side of the car and I was going about 35mph. Before I could even respond, she was gone in a clatter of tiny hooves. (It was July and my car windows were open.) Only by the grace of God and the fact she was going like a bat out of hell saved both of us. Now THAT was scary. At night I watch for shadows or eyes up ahead...

Mostly leave 'em alone and you'll be okay. If the animal is not acting normal or seems sick, call the animal officer, police or Fish & Game. Don't do anything stupid.

We've got bobcats out there, too, and at least one Eastern Mountain Lion although no one will officially admit it. But they're shy and don't like to be seen (while they're keeping the deer and other populations down).

Linn

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 09:59 AM

Ya mean like Donkeys and Horses, Crank-El?

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 11:11 AM

I mean like you and the Norway Rat.
=(:-( ))

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 11:12 AM

They took one off the highway killed by a car here that was over 90 lbs. I suspect what they are calling coyotes here are wolves. We have lots and lots of coyotes but is suspect seeing them and the tracks and the fact they are running in a pack that it is wolves that people are saying big big coyotes.

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 11:14 AM

I've travelled through New Hampshire. One of the prettiest places I've ever been. Vermont is nice too.
=(:-( ))

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 11:15 AM

Glad to hear it's not as bad as some stories make out, 999.

I agree with Bat Godess about the deer. A few years ago I was going South down the M5 in Devon, in lane 3 (the "outside" lane) when a huge deer came leaping over the barrier and landed on the front of my car. Made a right mess of the car but a split second later and it would have been throught the windscreen and I wouldn't be typing this...How it made it across the three lanes on the northbound side in the first place I'll never know. Scary.

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 11:19 AM

I would like to see Red Wolves return.
=(:-( ))

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 11:28 AM

Yesterday I might have agreed with Krinkle about the species thing, but Carol straightened me out. The lines between species, especially subspecies are not all that all that clear. As it turns out, while may matings are fruitless and some are sterile, some can produce fertile offspring and of those that do can possess a blend of survival traits more adapted to conditions than either parent. Those would tend to thrive. A possible example being the Red Wolf.

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 11:29 AM

Google "University of Arkansas Jonesboro football"

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 01:05 PM

Speaking as a big bad wolf
I think you should respect the gulf
Between the likes of me and the prairie dog
So jot these details in your blog!
A coyote creeps up and gives a fright
It also has a nasty bite.
Whereas I have pleasant features,
All of us wolves are kindly creatures.
we howl at the moon, most every night
But thats lupine tradition, that's our right.

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: gnu
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 01:38 PM

You Tube "deer jump over". They just appear in your face.

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 02:52 PM

It is interesting that Crank-el said "Norway" rat. Don't the legends of trolls originate from up around Norway?

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Rapparee
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 05:18 PM

For US $75.00 I can buy a whole coyote pelt. For about $20 I can buy an entire skunk pelt (unscented). For considerably more I can buy an entire black bear pelt.

Don't need any of them. I might buy the coyote pelt if I could use it to scare Hank, tho.

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 05:40 PM

How much for a Norway rat pelt?

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 08:57 PM

Those are free, sailor boy. Every time you catch and eat one. Free pelt. Like the free prize in every box of Cracker Jack.
=(:-( P)

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 10:22 PM

Of course that would be cannibalism for you, Krinkle cut.

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 11:37 PM

No. That would be Greg.
=(:-( ))

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 07 Dec 12 - 07:32 AM

No regrets coyote...!

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 07 Dec 12 - 12:09 PM

Hi, Henry. How many cats do you have? Do you have a colony, like might be on a farm, or do you have a small number, that might become housepets?

1. The best thing for the cats and for birds is to keep them in your house. The cats stay healthier, are more affectionate, and the birds can raise their young in safety. You've got to get them neutered, of course.

2. If that's not possible, I found a site where the Cheyenne Zoo sells big-cat feces. Buy some and put in around the yard. The coyotes will smell it and say "Mountain lions, tigers! We're out of here!"

http://www.cmzoo.org/conservation/action/ZooDoo.asp

However, it occurs to me it might freak out your kitties, too.

What to do, what to do...

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 07 Dec 12 - 12:17 PM

My housemate's cats. She has 4 now.
I would keep them in if they were mine.
=(:-( /)

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Rapparee
Date: 07 Dec 12 - 01:35 PM

Rats are quite edible -- it's your cultural bias that prevents you from enjoying them. Do a web search for ways to cook rats and mice. Maggots are also edible and are 90% protein.

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 07 Dec 12 - 01:45 PM

Leena, I'm not doubting you, But how do coyotes know what tiger poop smells like?

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: pdq
Date: 07 Dec 12 - 01:57 PM

There is a yard spray sold out here in the West that is supposed to be derived from Mountain Lion urine.

I know unemployment is high, but I suspect than involves is a job that is hard to fill.

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 07 Dec 12 - 06:57 PM

Jack, the big-cat poop includes mountain lion poop, which a coyote probably recognizes. I'm pretty sure tiger poop gives off the same "great big predator" signals.

From observing my pet cats, I see that they have instincitve reactions which I cannot begin to understand. For example, there used to be a fire house near me whose engines sounded strangely like coyotes howling at the moon. My cat was terrified whenever she heard those sirens, but she had never been near a coyote in her life. How did she know?

My current cat was scared recently by a recording an owl. (We live in a big city.) Again, how did she know? Instinct, but how does it work?
============
Henry, you seem to be between a rock and a hard place. I know! Tell your housemate to pay for the big-cat poop and give her the responsibility of spreading it. I bet she goes for indoor cats in no time.

Four sounds like quite a few, though.

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Dec 12 - 06:30 AM

There once was alittle coyoat
A small prairie dog, you will note
He liked spreading diseases
Cos millions of fleasies
Were living a life in his coat.

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 08 Dec 12 - 06:34 AM

Groan!

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: gnu
Date: 08 Dec 12 - 06:48 AM

leeneia... "Jack, the big-cat poop includes mountain lion poop, which a coyote probably recognizes. I'm pretty sure tiger poop gives off the same "great big predator" signals."

Sure does! Cat poop is cat poop. Big cat poop is big cat poop. Signal acheived.

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 08 Dec 12 - 12:57 PM

The only way I figure that tiger poop would work is if it had little chunks of coyote in it.

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: ollaimh
Date: 08 Dec 12 - 03:56 PM

you rarely see mountain lions. i never saw one when i lived in the rockies. when i lived a few hundred miles further south there was a sick and old one that started killing chickens. it likely had lost the baility ti hunt. locals shot it. there are the occasional stories out of the british columbis and alberta rockies of maountain lion attacks on humans. they are c\anny predators and will rarely be seen ntill they kill you. luckily that's rare. howeevr i had a young daughter when i lived in the rockies and i used to walk her to the school bus and meet her to walk back(about a quarter mile) just in case. we did have a deer living in a copse of trees nearby, so i took that as a sigh there wasn't a mountain lion aroundm but better safe than sorry.

i have nothing against maountain lions, they have as much right to be here as me but i'd rather they eat someone esle==like crank-el.

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 08 Dec 12 - 04:38 PM

Oh, ollie.
You can eat me too.
Raw.
=(:-( o)

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: gnu
Date: 08 Dec 12 - 05:08 PM

You should take up the bottle, Hank. Can't hurt.

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 08 Dec 12 - 05:19 PM

No. That stuff is poison.
You can have my share.
=(:-( ))

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 08 Dec 12 - 08:09 PM

"No. That stuff is poison."

Maybe that's why he wants you to drink it? :-D

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 08 Dec 12 - 08:10 PM

I think perhaps Krink meant "Peyote Problems"

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 09 Dec 12 - 12:47 AM

So, did they relegalize peyote? Can native Americans trip out on it legally again?
I know Daddy Bush outlawed it.
=(:-( 0)

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: pdq
Date: 09 Dec 12 - 10:22 AM

"Apparently I stand a better chance of being attacked by feral dogs.
They are the same species as the wolf. A pack killed an elderly couple near here.
=(:-( O)"


Well, they are considered that in today's classification scheme.

We must assume that DNA evidence has been responsible for the changes, but in reality, most taxonomists feel the need to change the status of something now and the just to prove they are relevant.

Rarely does a new worker in a field look at a group and say "everything looks right to me" and leave things alone.

I learned them as Canis domesticus (pet dogs), Canis latrans (coyote) and Canis lupus (wolf). Now the domestic dog is called Canis lupus familiaris, the same species as a wolf. Canis domesticus is not used anymore.

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 09 Dec 12 - 12:03 PM

Dogs and wolves interbreed and produce fertile offspring.

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: pdq
Date: 09 Dec 12 - 03:24 PM

I know it sounds like a definition dreamed up by Ambrose Bierce, but a species is "whatever the ranking expert on a given group says it is".

Members of different genera are usually unable to produce fertile offspring. See Liger and Tigeron.

It is more likely that different species within a genus can, but not always. Coyotes and Wolves seem to breed with no problems.

Subspecies should be able breed fully with each other since the criteria are usually just color variations and locality.

It has been said that "propinguity is the mother of romance" (Steven Stills?), but there can be no interbreeding when subspecies occupy completely distinct and isolated territories.

A few hundred years ago, the Coyote was not found east of the Mississippi River (as far as I know). It is able to walk accross bridges on our great rivers. The Coyote is a invasive species in this case.

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: gnu
Date: 09 Dec 12 - 05:15 PM

Oh, I clicked submit. And the post appeared at the top so I thought may post went through. Nope.

Anyway... I used to visit a lot of "coyote" dens (Eastern Brush Wolves to REAL experts like my old man) to watch the pups and was tolerated because I did it properly. One pack was over 15 in number and their dens were about 500m from where I camped. They are cool dogs. It humans who don't know what they are doing who are the problem.

NOW... THAT is in the woods. As far as these critters being close to human populations... not acceptable.

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: pdq
Date: 09 Dec 12 - 06:16 PM

The following site looks like fun.

Lotsa stuff on birds, insects and even a real Coyote:

                                                                                 cute, eh?

People in Maine can check it out when it's below zero there and 84 degrees in Tucson.

Here is a site that you can use to find wildflower conditions in all our deserts:

                                                                                 http://www.desertusa.com/