BS: Coyote Problems?

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Dec 12 - 06:17 PM

Y'all got this backwards.

The real deal is that the Coyotes have a very serious human problem, and its getting worse all the time.

Same for a whole bunch of other wildlife.

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: gnu
Date: 09 Dec 12 - 06:31 PM

Go live with the yotes if ya don't like being a human. I lived with em up country. When they get in my face, I kill em (only had to once... one dog... the rest were smart enough to learn a valuable lesson that day so *I* allowed the rest to live). Anyone got a problem with that ain't never been in the real woods and ain't farmed land in the real woods.

High and mighty talk from uneducated and inexperienced tree huggers don't impress this good ol country boy.

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: bobad
Date: 09 Dec 12 - 07:20 PM

I was just talking with my next door neighbour and he mentioned that a coyote has been hanging around his place fairly regularly and is often seen in his paddock with the horses. He was wondering if the 'yote was interested in the horses but I figure he may be more interested in what the horses leave in the field - my dog seems to find those buns tasty.

Here's a YouTube vid described as a coyote attack but it looks more like the healthy looking and well fed 'yote is more curious and playful rather than menacing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqVE9qfg7yI

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: gnu
Date: 09 Dec 12 - 07:47 PM

Oh, that yote was not playing. He was testing. His attempt at charging to invoke a flee and his attempt at the foot was allowed but if he could have upended the lad it may have ended differently.

I am a litlle pissed that buddy played with him like that. Imagine what will happen when that yote gets near a human child and has no fear. People who don't understand shouldn't "play" with wild animals. And, imagine if that was an Easter Brush Wolf (falsely called yotes here). He would come back with the pack in an hour or two and buddy would be s steaming pile of shit on the snow in about twelve hours. Sad, really.

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: ollaimh
Date: 09 Dec 12 - 08:12 PM

when the devil hates you you know you are on the right track

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: gnu
Date: 09 Dec 12 - 08:50 PM

I totally agree... well, I would, maybe, if I knew what you were talking about.

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Dec 12 - 09:01 PM

Gnews to me gnu.

I've lived in the bloody woods of far upstate NY damn near Canada all my life. See coyotes about every third day - or should I say eastern brush wolves in your chosen argot - within 100 yds of the house - never had a problem. Black bears not as frequently but here & also not a problem. All manner of other critters. Have hunted for 50 years, large and small game.

So tell ya what, gnu - take your "uneducated and inexperienced tree huggers who've never been in the real woods" & shove 'em up far your ass & give 'em a couple of good twists, OK?

Then bugger off.

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Dec 12 - 09:04 PM

On second thought, Mr. High and Mighty gnu- why don't you look up the statistics on the number of actual documented, instead of fantasy, coyote attacks on humans in, say, the last 10 years & report back to us.

THEN you can bugger off.

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Rapparee
Date: 09 Dec 12 - 09:40 PM

Well, Greg, here's a Wikipedia article on such attacks. You can also find some good information here.

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 09 Dec 12 - 09:41 PM

Canada, is a big country Greg F, Its more than 800 miles from Gnu's place to upstate New York. Are the Coyotes in both places the same? You have nothing but speculation.


As for you seeing Coyotes, as shy as they are, three times a day, makes me want to tell you about my annual encounter with a chubby elf in a Reindeer powered aircraft with Canadian Ministry of Transport approved running and landing lights. Are you sure it wasn't your neighbor's dachshunds?

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: gnu
Date: 09 Dec 12 - 10:26 PM

Gerg F... if you don't know the difference between a yote and a wolf I should say you don't know squat either. I was commenting on the twit in the video... are you saying you approve of that twit's behaviour? If so, don't bugger off, get some help... you say you live in the woods? Surely someone there can teach you something about how to deal with and respect wild animals.

I find it hard to believe you actually have the experience you say you do and you seem to say you condone that twit in the video playing with that yote the way he did... seriously... one way or another, yer yankin my chain. No?

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 10 Dec 12 - 03:42 AM

Coywolves are a bigger threats than coyotes, which are in turn a bigger threat than Greg F's neighbor's dachshunds.

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Dec 12 - 08:46 AM

Hey, Rap - I said evidence - not Blog-O-Pedia.

But even assuming yhey are correct (albeit a large assumption) now do look up the number of hunmans, adults included, that are killed and maimed by domestic dogs on an annual basis.

So once we've killed off all the domestic dogs - a REAL invasive species-, we can tackle the much more minute coyote problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Dec 12 - 08:55 AM

Hullo, Jack - well the genetic studies I'bve read seen to suggest that the genetic mix of the coyptes (or "brush Wolves as gnu persistes in calling 'em) in both places are a pretty similar mix of grey wolf & coyote. "Coy-EWolves? please - most Eastern Coyotes have had an admixture of wolf DNA for quite some time.

As for frequency of sightings- one sighting approximately "every third day" is two to three times a week, not three times a day, genius.

Learn to comprehend the English language before spewing out a tirade of snide and meaningless bullshit.

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Dec 12 - 09:15 AM

And finally gnu-

Where did you get the impression I don't know the difference between what used to be called in my bilology/taxonomy classes canis latrans and canis lupus? Certainly nothing I've posted here suggests any such thing.

Similarly, what is your assertion that I "approve of that twit's behaviour" based on? I didn't comment on the video AT ALL, pro or con. But for your information, yes, I think the guy is a real asshole.

In point of fact, 99% of the interactions between wild animals and humans that result in injury to humans are the result of the human acting the asshole in one way or another.

As for "dangerous" animals in the woods, in 50 years of hunting and extended backpack camping in NY, VT, NH, northern ME, and elsewhere in the lower 48, I've had serious problems that might have resulted in injury with only two species: domestic dogs and humans. The latter were considerably more dangerous. Oh yeah, and once I got too close to a porcupine - but that was entirely my own fault.

In general, I've always been amused that a good number of the rough-and-tough, brawny woodsman types are actually afraid of wild animals.
Perhaps THEY should saty out of the woods, or move to the cities.

Ta,

G.

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Charmion
Date: 10 Dec 12 - 09:40 AM

There's no respite from wildlife in city life, Greg -- at least not in Canada. Our old tomcat got skunked a few weeks ago right in his own back yard, in the downest downtown this town has to offer. Moose are occasionally spotted in our suburbs; deer are common. Raccoons are so common the city has invested serious time, energy and public money in developing coon-proof bins for compostable waste. Bears are uncommon in city limits, but not unknown.

In eastern Ontario, coyotes are a problem mainly to farmers. I know people who raise sheep near Oxford Station, and they need guard dogs to protect their woolly investment from the wily critters. (The dogs do a good job.) Every now and then the Toronto-centred media get frantic about coyotes in the ravines that criss-cross the city, but I've never read an account of a coyote attack on a human. Maybe Torontonians are smart enough to avoid them; I think it more likely the coyotes are smart enough to avoid the Torontonians.

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 10 Dec 12 - 10:19 AM

"I was commenting on the twit in the video"

I agree with gnu 100%. That's a wild animal in the video. They don't know if it's aching with hunger, or sick. They don't even understand its NORMAL fears and behaviors.

They should leave it alone.

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Rapparee
Date: 10 Dec 12 - 12:45 PM

I doubt, Greg, that a group working with the University of Ohio Extension Services and the Wildlife Foundation are equivalent to Wikipedia.

But since you did ask, here's an article from the USDA. Here's a tidbit from down under (U. of Queensland). And finally, here's some words from Vermont; a nice bibliography is included, as are comparisons between human/dog and human/coyote interactions.

Here's an article from "National Geographic News" for you to think about -- and the similar reports from Chicagoland this past September and October.

Finally, the problem is rarely with the animals but with the humans who interact with them. A mountain goat faced me down in Glacier National Park; I left. I have no desire nor need to pet a bear cub or tease a bison -- I'll leave that to those whom the gene pool is better without.

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Dec 12 - 05:07 PM

So, Rap:

Agreed! Damn near anything has more validity than Blog-O-Pedia.

However:

1. , the problem is rarely with the animals but with the humans who interact with them.

Uh yeah, that's what I said. Several times. You're obviously still having problems comprehending the English language.

2.We're not talking about Australia. Wake up. Strike two

3. The article on California doesn't signify, the western coyote has had no cross-breeding with the grey wolf; nothing whatsoever to do with the current discussion. In addition, the California situation is a perfect example where the relentless spread of yuppie suburbia into wild areas impinges upon the wild animals concerned. Perfect example of why humans are the problem, not the coyotes. That and idiootic humans not respecting or knowing bugger-all about the resident population of wildlife..

4. From your Vermont article Quote : statistics indicate that the chances of being attacked by a coyote are far less that that of being attacked by a domestic pet. Guess you missed that. Statistics would also indicate that you're more likely to be struck by lightening twice on the same day and/or be abducted by space aliens than that of being attacked by a coyote.

5. An anamolous cougar in Chicago - assuming the tabloid story is true, also has nothing to do with the point under discussion.

6. .None of the things you've posted address the point I raised, that it is more likely for a person to be killed or injured by a domestic dog, horse, or goat than by a wolf, coyote, ort the mythical Coy-Dog or Coy-wolf.

Strike five, you're out. But thanks for playing.

And hey, just stay out of the woods, weenie - it ain't safe for the likes of you out there.

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: gnu
Date: 10 Dec 12 - 06:49 PM

Well, Greg F... I WAS a "rough-and-tough, brawny woodsman" when I was a young man and I spect as much time in the bush as any of them. Fact is, you took what I said and pissed with it then and pissed on it.

Only difference is, I am a gentleman and I admit to my mistakes rather than hide behind bullshit to save face.

Soooo.... if you really were not shitting on me beacause I was dissing the asshole in the video... why were you shitting on me?

Oh... your question about "where you said that"... "See coyotes about every third day - or should I say eastern brush wolves in your chosen argot". Come on, Greg... get in the game.

I'll stop there. Fact is, from what you have said, you are an avid woodsman. I used to live and breathe it too, until health problems took it from me. I am sure, under different circumstances, we would "bond". But, buddy boy, I just cannot accept yer arguements in the way you state them. Yotes ain't wolves. Our "yotes" eat livestock, prey AND people. They ARE NOT yotes... the are wolves. Don't tell me OUR yotes ain't wolves.

Maybe we need to hash it out over a beer. If I ever get down to your neck of the woods, first round is on you.

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: pdq
Date: 10 Dec 12 - 07:02 PM

A new gnu?

Who knew!

Good on you, gnu.

Must be near Christmas.

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Dec 12 - 07:10 PM

Gnu, I'll gladly stand a round or three, and I ain't shitting on you then or now. "Hide behind bullshit"?... c'mon Bud; say wha???

I never said that coyotes are are wolves; where the hell are you getting that fom? I'm starting to feel like an extra in Cool Hand Luke.

Be well,

Greg

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: gnu
Date: 10 Dec 12 - 09:18 PM

Well... I thought my last post cleared it up but I guess I'll just have to leave it there. I can't say it any more clearly.

In any case, allow me to recap my position on yotes, bears, moose, skunks, porcupique la... I AM the alpha. I OWN my ground and whatever ground I choose. I accept that I must live in harmony for the good of all, including me, and I always have done so. But, when "animal" or "human" gets in my face and it's unwarranted, I AM the alpha. Period.

BTW, I am a tree hugger but I know which trees to hug and which trees to use for firewood.

gnightgnu

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Rapparee
Date: 10 Dec 12 - 10:49 PM

Fact is, Greg, cougars have been reported in Illinois since at least 1960. I know that because a friend's father came face-to-face with one in a Boy Scout Camp outside Lorraine, IL. Cat never hurt anyone; the Scouts nicknamed it Alfie (for Alfred E. Neuman) and everyone lived harmoniously for years.

Cougars -- mountain lions, panthers, painters, pumas -- were in one form or another widespread across the US before the hand of man set foot. They are indigenous to Florida, for example, and still live there.

I don't think the Chicago "Tribune" would like being called a tabloid.

Do your own research. I retired from looking it up.

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 10 Dec 12 - 11:46 PM

Greg. You are full of shit. you did not see three a day or three a week or three a month or three a year.

You say the neighbor's dog.

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Dec 12 - 10:04 AM

Sez you, Jack. Fine. Now bugger off.

cougars have been reported in Illinois since at least 1960

So has sasquatch, Rap. And Deer Woman. And Elvis, I think in 1992.
Cougars have also been "reported" in N ew York State.

Pardon me if I don't understand what you think they have to do with Coyotes?

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 11 Dec 12 - 10:39 AM

We had a cougar in a woodsy area east of Kansas City. Two men had owned it, probably illegally, then dumped it when they broke up.

A spokesman from the state Department of Conservation told me recently that most cougars seen in settled areas are animals like that. Most likely their teeth have been filed, their claws have been removed, they can't hunt, and they are starving.

I've heard a rumor that "pet" cougars are favorites of drug dealsers. Wouldn't surprise me.

Anybody who sees a cougar where it shouldn't be should report it, for the animal's sake and for the sake of people it might hurt in its desperation.

Subject: RE: BS: Coyote Problems?
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Dec 12 - 05:56 PM

By the way, Jack, our only neighbors doesn't own any dogs- they raise Alpacas. That's probably what I'm mistaking for the coyotes.