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Lyr Req: The Black Watch

Ferret 30 Oct 99 - 10:31 AM
Lesley N. 31 Oct 99 - 02:48 PM
Bob Bolton 01 Nov 99 - 01:37 AM
_gargoyle 01 Nov 99 - 11:15 PM
paddymac 02 Nov 99 - 06:58 AM
AndyG 02 Nov 99 - 07:38 AM
harpgirl 02 Nov 99 - 08:40 AM
Philippa 02 Nov 99 - 05:55 PM
_gargoyle 02 Nov 99 - 09:51 PM
MMario 02 Nov 99 - 09:57 PM
lamarca 02 Nov 99 - 11:30 PM
Reiver 2 03 Nov 99 - 05:08 PM
MMario 03 Nov 99 - 05:40 PM
Wolfgang 04 Nov 99 - 06:13 AM
MudGuard 05 Nov 99 - 01:44 AM
Murray on Saltspring 05 Nov 99 - 02:53 AM
alison 05 Nov 99 - 03:05 AM
Wolfgang 05 Nov 99 - 05:46 AM
_gargoyle 05 Nov 99 - 11:17 PM
Ferret 16 Nov 99 - 07:41 AM
Wolfgang 19 Nov 99 - 03:57 AM
Wolfgang 11 Jul 00 - 09:34 AM
Joe Offer 11 Jul 00 - 01:55 PM
MudGuard 11 Jul 00 - 02:23 PM
Wolfgang 12 Jul 00 - 07:52 AM
GUEST,JohnnyYank 04 May 16 - 07:54 PM
Jack Campin 04 May 16 - 08:10 PM
GUEST,Auldtimer 05 May 16 - 12:07 PM
GUEST,Ebor_Fiddler 05 May 16 - 06:05 PM
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Subject: The Black Watch
From: Ferret
Date: 30 Oct 99 - 10:31 AM

I resent lee hard a song called 'The Black Watch' sung by O'Glacain on 'The Irish Brigade' Vol: 5. I have been unable to find the lyrics for this can any one help. All the best ferret


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Black Watch
From: Lesley N.
Date: 31 Oct 99 - 02:48 PM

I doubt seriously that what I found is anywhere close to what you are looking for - but here it is. There is a song in "Genuine Scottish Melodies" (circa 1900) that is to be sung to the tune The Highland (or Black) Watch. It is I Shall Return Again and begins I would not have thee dry the tear that dims thine yee of blue...

If this is anything close, let me know. Generally my stuff from old songbooks is nothing like what people are looking for from modern CDs... oh well...


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Black Watch
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 01 Nov 99 - 01:37 AM

G'day Ferret,

The Version I know of The Black Watch or The Gallant Forty Twa (about the famous body of Scots soldiers) has a chorus that goes (~):
Wha saw the Forty Second, Wha saw them gan' awa'
Wha saw the Forty Second, Sailin' up the Broomielaw
Some o' them had boots and stockin's, Some o' them had nain at a'
Some of them had hairy sporrans, Sailin' up the Broomielaw

I'll have a look to see what more I actually have in print (if anything!).

Regards,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Black Watch
From: _gargoyle
Date: 01 Nov 99 - 11:15 PM

A tune from which I have spun many a modern "folk-wanna-be" tune.

Never imagined there were actual words to fit.

Bob - If you don't mind: What are "hairy sporrans?" Is the Broomielaw a river? Is it in Scotland or some other land? I am only familar with the 42nd as a valiant regiment....with deeds recorded in overseas battles.....the tune appears to be timeless, did it have an "origin?"


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Black Watch
From: paddymac
Date: 02 Nov 99 - 06:58 AM

a "sporran" (not sure of correct spelling) is the pouch worn low in front with a kilt. A "furry sporran" is simply one made from a hide, as opposed to tanned leather or some fabric.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Black Watch
From: AndyG
Date: 02 Nov 99 - 07:38 AM

_gargoyle,
The Broomielaw is a quay by the Clyde in Glasgow. here's a map and a picture (1895)

AndyG


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Black Watch
From: harpgirl
Date: 02 Nov 99 - 08:40 AM

...the best looking "hairy sporrans" have a badger's head front and center!! ha ha "Well, a scotsman clad in kilt left a bar one evening faire"...


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Black Watch
From: Philippa
Date: 02 Nov 99 - 05:55 PM

See WHA SAW THE 42ND in the Digitrad database


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Black Watch
From: _gargoyle
Date: 02 Nov 99 - 09:51 PM

The MOST amazing, wonderous thing about the DT is how the "little strings of life" come together.

The tune has been etched into my brain for decades and now the words tumble right in.... permanetly (and with a minicum of regret)to live side by side.

I know there are answers (that can be dug out - at expence of time on a personal basis) however, perhaps you also know the "American Translation" of:

"Gaein' to the Waupinschaw" - Going to the ??????????

"Some o' them gat chappit tatties" - Some of them got????

"Some o' them gat barley bannocks" - some them got??????

And pray tell...what are "sporrans?????"

I have "mountains of Irish sites" to connect to, can you recommend a "Scottish Links Page????"


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Black Watch
From: MMario
Date: 02 Nov 99 - 09:57 PM

A sporran is the pouch worn front and center on the kilt - to keep things in. Kilts don't have pockets.

barley bannocks=bread made of barley...sorta barley pancakes....

chappit tatties has me stumped


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Black Watch
From: lamarca
Date: 02 Nov 99 - 11:30 PM

We used to sing this at (USA) Girl Scout Camp when I was but little, and I heard the words as

Warsaw 42nd,
Warsaw, going to war
Warsaw 42nd
Going to the Gremlin War

Zoombaloo, my boots and stockings...etc.

I always used to wonder what the Polish regiment was, and where the Gremlin War was fought; I REALLY liked the "Zoombaloo" chorus, and now you shatter my childhood illusions by telling me it was really a song in Scots dialect a Girl Scout from Wisconsin hadn't a hope in hell of understanding?

By the way, "chappit tatties" are boiled or mashed potatoes...


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE GALLANT FORTY-TWA
From: Reiver 2
Date: 03 Nov 99 - 05:08 PM

One of my favorites when the Reivers were singing up in Kamloops, B.C. was "THE GALLANT FORTY-TWA."

You may talk about your lancers or your Irish Fusilliers,
The Aberdeen Militia or the Queen's Own Volunteers,
Or any other regiment that's lyin' far awa',
But gie tae me the tartan o' the gallant Forty-Twa.

And strollin' through the green fields on a summer day,
Watchin' a' the country girls, workin' a' the hay;
I really was delighted and he stole ma heart awa',
When I saw him in the tartan o' the gallant Forty-Twa.

I never will forget the day his regiment marched past;
The pipes they played a lively tune but my heart was aghast.
He turned around and smiled farewell and then from far awa',
He waved to me the tartan o' the gallant Forty Twa.

Once again I heard the music o' the pipers from afar;
They tramped and tramped, the weary men, returnin' from the war;
And as they nearer drew, I brushed a woeful tear awa',
Tae see ma bonny laddie and the gallant Forty-Twa.


Any information that anyone has to share about the history of the song would be appreciated. I didn't find it in the DT search. Charles (Reiver 1) and I always had to chuckle at the middle verse as we pictured the soldier marching away (sorry, awa'), suddenly stopping, stripping off his plaid and waving it in the air in farewell! We always had a knack for turning serious songs into something we could laugh about. ^^^


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Black Watch
From: MMario
Date: 03 Nov 99 - 05:40 PM

for THE GALLANT FORTY TWA, which is in the DT:

try here

URL:http://www.mudcat.org/@displaysong.cfm?SongID=6345


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Black Watch
From: Wolfgang
Date: 04 Nov 99 - 06:13 AM

Now back to Ferret's request from the very enjoyable digression. With such a name of the band and Ferret asking I'm sure this is a 1970's provisional IRA song with the lines "a bunch of Scottish critters you never will forget (and then something like:) but you can be sure the IRA they aren't beaten yet". I have a not perfect transcription at home and would do the typing (though the lyrics are anything but subtle) but there is an easier alternative:
Mudguard, you have the lyrics readily available for copy&paste I have them in the old fashioned paper format. So please spare me the typing and post them, I promise you we won't start a fight about the educational or human value of the lyrics.

Wolfgang


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Subject: ADD: The Black Watch ^^
From: MudGuard
Date: 05 Nov 99 - 01:44 AM

I have a different song under that name which I transcribed from a recording of the The Fighting Men From Crossmaglen.
As usual when I try to transcribe lyrics from recordings, there is a spot where I am not sure (marked in red).

MudGuard (whohopestherebeldiscussiondoesnotstartagainjustbecauseheprovideslyricsofanirasong)

The Black Watch

You've heard about the beeman, they're cruel, or you see
You've heard about the Black and Tans and bygone history,
But there's another regiment the devil calls his own,
They're known as the Black Watch commissioned by the throne.

Chorus   [VC* C]
Last time repeat last line.

Strolling down the Farmer's*) Road with riot guns and gas,
Terrorising women as they're coming out of mass,
A bunch of Scottish critters we never will forget,
Thank God we know the IRA sure aren't beaten yet.
These soldiers come from Scotland, a place you were no hell,
From the hardest part of Glasgow, the Paddy boys did dwell,
They're given a British uniform, they're given a British gun,
They join a British regiment to have themselves some fun.

When I grow up and marry and have a little son,
I will tell him of the regiment, the terrible things they've done,
And when that he grows older, becomes a man like me,
He'll become a volunteer and set old Ireland free.

*) Wolfgang disagrees here. He thinks this should be "Falls Road", while I am sure I here an "m" in this word. In my opinion it is either "Farmer's" or "famous".^^


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Black Watch
From: Murray on Saltspring
Date: 05 Nov 99 - 02:53 AM

Gargoyle: a "wappinschaw" [variously spelt] is a show of weapons, a get-together of a clan or district, armed to the teeth, where they showed off their weaponry and had contests [rifle-shooting and what have you].

The IRA song, which is interesting, seems to be the one Ferret was after. But there's quite a few others as you see above. Burns has a song in the Scots Musical Museum set to the tune "The Black Watch" [Gaelic An freiceadan dubh], namely "When Guilford good". The tune is also called "The Earl of Glencairn's Strathspey".


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Black Watch
From: alison
Date: 05 Nov 99 - 03:05 AM

Mudguard I guess it would be "the B men"... talking about the "B specials", I leave the history lesson up to someone else because I don't remember enough about it.

I reckon the line should be

You've heard about the B men, and the cruel RUC

chappit tatties - would be either chopped or chipped potatoes.

I think "falls" makes more sense than "Farmers Road" but if there is an "m" probably famous.

slainte

alison


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Black Watch
From: Wolfgang
Date: 05 Nov 99 - 05:46 AM

Thanks Mudguard, for sparing me the typing. Alison, you're right, thanks. B men was new to me, but I should have thought of RUC. I don't hear the "m" Mudguard hears (same CD, by the way), so I do strongly recommend "Falls Road" which makes a lot of sense in that context. I'll try to find out whether the tune is one of the older songs to the same title mentioned above.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Black Watch
From: _gargoyle
Date: 05 Nov 99 - 11:17 PM

Dear Lamarca

Rather than posting the lyrics to a "misunderstood: thread" would you please consider posting the lyrics (as you understood them in GS-USA) to this thread... it would be most interesting.

Especially, the Zambaloo Chorus, and any other variants.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Black Watch
From: Ferret
Date: 16 Nov 99 - 07:41 AM

Thanks Wolfgang & Mudguard that is the one. Wolfgang you are geting to know me to well. thaks for all your help all the best ferret


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Black Watch
From: Wolfgang
Date: 19 Nov 99 - 03:57 AM

Just to finish it off: Tunes for songs like the one above asked for by Ferret are rarely if ever written for the occasion. I have (whatever the acoustic equivalent is to:) 'looked it up'. As you might have presumed the tune for Ferret's 'Black Watch' is the same as for 'The Gallant Forty Twa', i.e. the older 'Black Watch'.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Black Watch
From: Wolfgang
Date: 11 Jul 00 - 09:34 AM

I know now the the lyrics to the above song posted by Mudguard:

It's 'You've heard about the B-men, the cruel RUC' (as Alison presumed)
it's 'Falls road'
and it's 'a place you all know well' in verse 2, end of line 1.

Just a lyrics correction, friends, o.k.?

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Black Watch
From: Joe Offer
Date: 11 Jul 00 - 01:55 PM

OK, so you guys lost me. Is the tune for "Black Watch" the same as the tune for The Gallant Forty Twa?
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Black Watch
From: MudGuard
Date: 11 Jul 00 - 02:23 PM

Sorry, Joe, I honestly don't know. My computer sound hardware is down, so I can't play the tune for the Gallant Forty Twa, and I do not know that song, only the Black watch...

MudGuard


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Black Watch
From: Wolfgang
Date: 12 Jul 00 - 07:52 AM

Yes, Joe, the tune for the recently written 'Black Watch' is identical with the old tune of 'The Gallant Forty Twa'.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Black Watch
From: GUEST,JohnnyYank
Date: 04 May 16 - 07:54 PM

The Lyrics from the play.
(As best I can make out bring a Yank)

Well whence I twas a weaver my name is Willie Broon.
And whence I was a weaver I dwelt in Maxwelltoon.
Now I am a sojor gan ta Perth and gawn awa.
For ta join that highland regiment The Gallant Forty Twa.

Oh the very first day on parade was we a lot of young recruits
and the Sgt he got on ta me but im lookin at my boots.
He tapped me on Tha shoulder and said mateie come awa.
Fer y'er sure ta make a hell ya mess for tha Gallant Forty Twa .

Ye can talk about your First Royals Your Sussex Fusseliers.
Your Aberdeen militia and ya dandy volunteers.

Your see...something or other kilts can't get it. Then something about garters ...but it ends .

Give to me the tartan of the Gallant Forty Twa ..Hope this helps. If anyone knows the last verse...I'd love to know it.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Black Watch
From: Jack Campin
Date: 04 May 16 - 08:10 PM

"The Gallant Forty Twa" (at least, as the Clancy Brothers sing it) is a completely different tune to "Wha Saw the Forty-Second". The latter song is from the 19th century and uses a tune best known at the time as "Wha will go and fight for Charlie" - a Jacobite pastiche of a song from the early 18th cenury, "Wha will gae and marry Kitty" (or Ketty).


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Black Watch
From: GUEST,Auldtimer
Date: 05 May 16 - 12:07 PM

Guest Johnny Yank, this was sang by Ian Manuel and learned by me many years ago, and since forgoten, the last verse as far as I recall went-

Well noo ave go'ten furlo' an tae Dundee toun al' gang
it's thare al' show ma coumrades just hoo tae haun'el a gun
Thay'l tak me out and thay'l staun a treat then al' begin tae blaw
An' they'll think that I'v made sergent in the gallant forty twa

Ye can talk can talk about yer first Royals an' Scotish Fusilers
yer Aberdeen militia an' yer army volunteers
the Sseaforths wae their stripet' kilts the gordons aye sae braw
Man come bring the tartan 'o the gallant forty twa


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Black Watch
From: GUEST,Ebor_Fiddler
Date: 05 May 16 - 06:05 PM

I can just hear him now Auldtimer. Mind, half the time he put his accent so broad that I could hardly understand the words he was singing!


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