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BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 15 Jan 13 - 12:40 PM For lots more of Alex Jones and his huge following, see my post of Jan. 10, 9:34. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 15 Jan 13 - 01:09 PM ""This is especially important to watch if you are from the UK, because it will help you to stop thinking about the gun, and start thinking about the person behind it."" And the NRA and other pro gun idiots want these cretinous subhumans to be legally entitled to continue their idiocy. No wonder you feel that you need to explain the American sense of humour to Brits. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns From: GUEST,Backwoodsman Date: 15 Jan 13 - 01:26 PM "This is especially important to watch if you are from the UK, because it will help you to stop thinking about the gun, and start thinking about the person behind it. It will also help you to understand the American sense of humor." For the love of God! If the person hasn't got a gun, he can't shoot anyone! That's why our per-capita shooting-rate is a fraction of yours - because very few of us have a gun. We have plenty of wackos, but hardly any guns. Why do you brainwashed, paranoid, fear-possessed numb-nuts find that so difficult to understand? Think with your brains, not your balls. No apologies for the rant - American blind stupidity over guns would even make the Pope swear in public. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns From: gnu Date: 15 Jan 13 - 02:30 PM 9... "Check the video at about 2:27." That is horrible. Not that she was firing a "gun from the hip" (I know she didn't actually do that... it's just a saying to kinda describe what she did) but because she POINTED the gun DIRECTLY at the cameraman. NO training at all. Many of the people in those clips had NO proper training and what is REALLY sad is that they were being "taught" by people who should KNOW how to do it right in the first place. It is SO sad that Harper is destroying our good gun laws because of the few bad gun laws. So VERY sad. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns From: SPB-Cooperator Date: 15 Jan 13 - 02:37 PM If you guys feel that it is ok for your children to be slaughtered, as long as you can keep your toys, in the end it is none of our business. But on that note, I would advice any families who think about visiting US, that they should think twice. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns From: pdq Date: 15 Jan 13 - 03:41 PM The United States has about 340,000,000 people if we were to be honest about the number of illegal aliens. That is the same population as the Arab World, an informal region of 21 countries. Claims that we do not have the right to own personal weapons is absurd. The shear number proves that they are legal. We have about 270,000,000 guns now and the number grow faster whenevr there is a movement to ban them, as we see now. We can reduce gun violence by going after insane people and street gangs. The last 5 or 6 high-profile mass murders were all by insane people. The vast majority of gun murders are by members of street gangs. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns From: Bill D Date: 15 Jan 13 - 03:42 PM I am pretty tired of the "you guys" and " American blind stupidity " generalizations from over the pond... It is a conservative minority who are holding the rest of the country hostage!! Most Americans.. even the ones who own some guns strictly for hunting..etc.. do NOT support the radical NRA positions. Over 60% now WANT stricter laws. We are quite aware that there are FAR too many radicals and guns! We are also aware that getting all the stupid forms of weapons back would be a HUGE problem. We must start from where we are, and Pres. Obama and Joe Biden are RIGHT NOW working on ways to take executive action that right-wing idiots in Congress can't block. All the "you stupid idiots" posts from abroad are not only not helpful, they obscure the real debate... please consider useful ideas, or get away from the broad-brush characterizations! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns From: bobad Date: 15 Jan 13 - 04:28 PM 31 Days Later – U.S. gun deaths since Newtown |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 15 Jan 13 - 04:31 PM And the kooks keep coming - from that mystical region where far right and far left join and throb: http://www.christianpost.com/news/professor-claims-newtown-shooting-was-likely-staged-87934/ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns From: Bobert Date: 15 Jan 13 - 04:33 PM 'Bout says it all, b-bad... Now here is the graph I'd like to see in addition to that one: all shootings... That one would be 5 times larger... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns From: olddude Date: 15 Jan 13 - 05:48 PM Today New York just passed even more laws Here they are. Most we already had however I don't have too much of an issue with them except the magazine part. Many modern pistols have high capacity magazine and in this state you cannot own a pistol unless you already went through all the shit so it doesn't do any good at all. That I take issue with in this state. but again how about saying no gun shows in New york state. Nope won't address that. Soooo all the new laws ... don't mean anything if you can negate them all via gun show New York Sttate |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns From: olddude Date: 15 Jan 13 - 05:59 PM I did not see a thing about private long gun transfers and required BG checks. so in essence, the laws they just passed are 90% ineffective. In regards to handguns in this state. Like I said it is illegal to own one with a license. So to get one, the FBI has to say ok, A judge has to say ok, the sheriff has to say ok, the chief of police has to say ok, you have to present your safety course card and no mental health history. Photographed and fingerprinted. If you get a permit, then it is legal. So if someone has done that what is the difference if I carry 7 rounds or 14 rounds in my glock as I have the same permit as the state police do ... makes little sense. Now in regard to assult weapons yes it makes sense. However no addressing the gun show as of yet that negates everything on BG checks |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns From: olddude Date: 15 Jan 13 - 06:08 PM strictest handgun laws in the country and it has done nothing to stop the killings by the criminals ... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns From: Bill D Date: 15 Jan 13 - 06:18 PM " So to get one, the FBI has to say ok, A judge has to say ok.... etc.. No... to get one you go to Virginia, or to your friendly neighborhood fence. Oh... you mean LEGALLY. Well, those we are worried about could care less about 'legally', as many of them INTEND to do illegal stuff anyway! It's fine to HAVE the laws.. to prosecute those they catch, but as long as many, many guns are out there- legally or illegally-- guns WILL be obtained by "various means". You cannot have 300 million firearms in a country and ensure that they are ONLY in sane hands!@! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns From: Bobert Date: 15 Jan 13 - 06:20 PM New york has the strictest gun laws on the books and has the lowest per capita gun death of any major city in the country... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns From: olddude Date: 15 Jan 13 - 06:30 PM Well said Bill that is true. Bobster I am talking the entire state. Have a look at the gun violence in Buffalo |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns From: pdq Date: 15 Jan 13 - 06:39 PM "However no addressing the gun show as of yet that negates everything on BG checks" I live in Nevada and we may have more major gun shows than any other state. As far as I know, over 95% of those selling at these shows are lisenced dealers and do the background checks as required by law. Most newspapers and outfits like craigslist ban gun ads. That is the best we can do. The radio suggests that the New York spokesmen are tauting their new law as banning gun ownership by insane people and felons. What PR crap. That was already the case before the new laws passed. Can't these people win without lying through their teeth. {ans: no} |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 15 Jan 13 - 06:55 PM > strictest handgun laws in the country and it has done nothing to stop the killings by the criminals ... We don't know how many more killings there'd have been without the laws - depending on whom you mean by "the criminals." > Well, those we are worried about could care less about 'legally', as many of them INTEND to do illegal stuff anyway! It's true that professional criminals have no problem getting guns, but the lone nuts we're mostly talking about are less likely to have the necessary "connections." And the professional criminals mainly use the guns on each other. Fact: there's no way to know how many additional shootings strict gun laws have already prevented. Maybe none, maybe some, maybe a lot. Fact: there's no way absolutely to prevent all mass shootings by armed maniacs. (It's somewhat surprising that there are statistically so few - a handful out of 300 million people. So far.) Fact: there's no reason besides politics - and fear of the NRA in particular - why the gun-show exception should not be addressed. Likely: some pointless new laws will be passed just so it looks like somebody is doing something. Not impossible: some helpful new laws will be passed somewhere, and some old ones will be better enforced. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns From: olddude Date: 15 Jan 13 - 07:03 PM PDQ makes some good point in this regard. We have over 20,000 gun laws and still the loopholes remain. I have no problem with gun shows by licensed FFL dealers , they are required BG checks. Sadly the guy next to them that is not a licensed dealer doesn't have to do any BG checks, thats the problem. There is no way of knowing if more laws help or hurt, however, new laws for the sake of claiming victory and getting some votes do nothing to make anyone safer. Much of the new NY gun law falls into the category since we already had much of it in place. some of the new stuff isn't that bad ... some is just political pat on the back but does nothing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns From: Bobert Date: 15 Jan 13 - 07:12 PM If we have 20,000 gun laws on the books and still have 100,000 Americans shot every year then we have 20,000 wrong laws... Other countries have right laws and they work... Why don't we copy folks who are successful rather than throw up our hands over and over and say, "Geeze, it won't work"??? How do we know??? We haven't ever tried real "gun control"... The laws always get screwed with loopholes, bad language no teeth and so we end up the murder capital of the developed world... We can and should do better... I don't want to hear the old worn-out arguments about how many laws are on the books (blah, blah, blah) or how many millions of people are safer because of all these guns (blah, blah, blah) ort any of the other out0right BS lies that the NRA has been peddling for the last 4-5 decades... They are lies... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns From: Elmore Date: 15 Jan 13 - 07:16 PM Gun laws? these people don't even have any geography. Bachman, talked about the shot heard 'round the world when speaking in Concord, NH. I just heard the former head of the RNC, Michael Steele refer to Newtown,Ma. in a discussion about gun laws. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 15 Jan 13 - 07:26 PM ""We can reduce gun violence by going after insane people and street gangs."" NO! YOU CAN'T! You just don't want to admit it. Examine the total number of gun casualties in the US and you will be forced to admit to yourselves that the majority are nothing to do with nutjobs or criminals. You are far more likely to be shot by a friend, relative or acquaintance, than by a mugger or a drug pusher. Read your own scientific and medical press for a change, instead of blindly and mindlessly accepting the triple distilled crap dished out by the NRA and the arms manufacturers. You are a nation of willing and complaisant victims! Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns From: olddude Date: 15 Jan 13 - 07:30 PM Its an excellent point 20,000 gun laws that don't work, so why don't we figure out why they don't work. Well one thing it is like saying the speed limit is 65 MPH .. but if you drive a yellow car it doesn't apply .. that is what we have now |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 15 Jan 13 - 07:30 PM ""It is a conservative minority who are holding the rest of the country hostage!! Most Americans.. even the ones who own some guns strictly for hunting..etc.. do NOT support the radical NRA positions. Over 60% now WANT stricter laws."" If over 60% of UK citizens wanted ANYTHING, our politicians would be lining up to keep their jobs, so WHAT are you doing WRONG? Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns From: GUEST,Stim Date: 15 Jan 13 - 07:40 PM Lighter linked to an article above about James F. Tracy, who, very unfortunately, has been characterized as some sort of mentally imbalanced shooting denier, when, in fact, he is a serious and clearheaded academic who has begun to examine the sloppy, incomplete, and often inept media coverage of the Newtown shootings. As someone who tried hard to figure out what was going on as events unfolded, and was confused, annoyed, and ultimately frustrated by the the unanswered questions and contradictory reports, I appreciate his examination of the events very much--He has four articles at his memoryholeblog.com, the first of which is here: Unanswered Questions about Sandy Hook Shootings He is scheduled to be on Anderson Cooper tonight, as well. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns From: Bobert Date: 15 Jan 13 - 07:46 PM Statistical fact: You are more apt to be shot if there is a gun in your house then if there isn't... The NRA stopped the funding for that study but the estimates run from 22 times safer to 43 times safer... Don T is 100% correct... Most people are shot by people they know, not criminals, not wackos... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 15 Jan 13 - 08:19 PM SATIRE ALERT. > Most people are shot by people they know, not criminals, not wackos Because the criminals and wackos are deterred, like the NRA says. ALL CLEAR. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 16 Jan 13 - 07:44 AM ""I appreciate his examination of the events very much--He has four articles at his memoryholeblog.com, the first of which is here:"" Suspending the usual US capacity for paranoia, what do we actually have here? One young man gets inside the school and begins his mass murder spree. He is armed with an Assault type weapon and two semi auto handguns. Outside the police are arriving and find two men running from the school. They arrest both men almost immediately and neither is armed. Since there is no record of guns being found in the area, we can assume that the two men were not shooters. The simplest explanation is that, whatever the reason for their presence, they were simply exercising self preservation and running away from gunfire as most sensible people would, and the fact that they haven't featured in further action shows that they were released because the police were satisfied that they were innocent of involvement. But this oh so self important conspiracy theorist, not only has a theory for this case, but links it with many unrelated others in order to weave a complex and extremely silly "Government did it" theory. It is fairly obvious where his "memory hole" is situated. Anyone who thinks this guy is playing with a complete 52 card deck is as daft as he is. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns From: Charmion Date: 16 Jan 13 - 08:40 AM The CBC eight-o'clock news this morning had an item on the NRA attack advertisement targeting (pun intended) President Obama's family. "When the president's children are at school, they are protected by armed guards," intoned the voice. "But President Obama doesn't think your children deserve the same level of protection" or words to that effect. Interesting, especially when considered in light of the NRA catchphrase that guns don't kill people; people kill people. By the same token, then, guns don't protect people; people protect people. So is the NRA suggesting a Secret Service detachment in every American school? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 16 Jan 13 - 09:18 AM SATIRE WARNING. The Lincoln "assassination" is known to have taken place in a theater *while a play was actually in progress.* The alleged gunman - killed without trial by Government agents - was a well-known stage actor. Get the picture? And who benefited? Vice President Andrew (aka "Lyndon") Johnson and a very healthy (and wealthy) Abraham Lincoln, living the high life under an assumed name on the French Riviera. Without his wife. Use your heads, people. ALL CLEAR. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns From: Ron Davies Date: 16 Jan 13 - 09:19 AM "Many modern pistols have high capacity magazines." So exactly why do you need a modern pistol with a capacity for over 7 bullets? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns From: Ron Davies Date: 16 Jan 13 - 09:23 AM "modern pistol magazine" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns From: Bobert Date: 16 Jan 13 - 10:07 AM Why even 10 round clips??? If six shots was all that Wyatt Erpp needed then, hey, limit the clips to 6 rounds... BTW, if you ain't hit Bambi or that paper target at the shooting range with the first six shots then you ain't gonna hit 'um... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 16 Jan 13 - 10:17 AM Public-spirited NRA brings constructive reason to the conversation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8crdWLgfDk Not. Like Obama is *preventing schools* from hiring guards, while he's careful to send his kids to a place that has them. He doesn't care about your kids, does he? He wants to take your Constitutional firearms, doesn't he? Would a real American do that? That's the NRA level of problem-solving. Their solution is to whip up hatred for the President and anybody who disagrees with them. I'm writing my Congressmen to express my outrage: not at Obama but at the NRA. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 16 Jan 13 - 10:18 AM So exactly why do you need a modern pistol with a capacity for over 7 bullets? Nobody outside of police or military could conceivably need such a thing. But, to the NRA and their gun-nut followers, it's not about need. It's about want. They want them in the same manner that a four-year-old wants the latest toy advertised on television, for pretty much the same reasons, and they pitch pretty much the same sorts of tantrums when someone tries to tell them they can't have it. What I don't get is this: Federal migratory waterfowl laws limit the capacity of repeating shotguns in the field to three rounds. Most pump-action or automatic shotguns have an actual capacity of five shells, but removable plugs are inserted to reduce that capacity to three for duck hunting. Nobody complains about it. It's like someone has decided ducks have more right to a reasonable chance of survival than humans. If you want to hunt mallards, you only get three shots before you have to reload, but if you want to hunt movie-goers, kindergartners, or Democratic politicians you can use as big a magazine as you can get your hands on. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns From: Ron Davies Date: 16 Jan 13 - 10:33 AM New NY state law reduces permissable size of gun magazines from 10 to 7 rounds. It seems a reasonable request to ask the Mudcat gun enthusiasts just why this is such a terrible and unfair burden for them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns From: Bill D Date: 16 Jan 13 - 12:13 PM "If over 60% of UK citizens wanted ANYTHING, our politicians would be lining up to keep their jobs, so WHAT are you doing WRONG?" I lost a very long post last night answering this in detail. I may try to reproduce it today. Short version- our political system, which has its good sides, makes it very hard to change some things. You in the UK have no idea what we struggle against! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns From: olddude Date: 16 Jan 13 - 12:24 PM I have no issue with anything I just heard on the press conference. Been saying the same thing myself for years. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns From: Ron Davies Date: 16 Jan 13 - 12:31 PM "no issue with anything..." But you did earlier say you had a problem with permissable magazines being reduced from 10 to 7 bullets. Exactly why? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns From: Bobert Date: 16 Jan 13 - 01:08 PM Well, the proposals are out there... It really boils down to some very reasonable ideas that aren't rocket surgery... 1. Ban military style assault rifles... 2. Close the gun show loophole... 3. Restrict magazine capacity... 4. Modernize the data base for background checks... 5. Lift the ban on funding gun violence research... Horrors, right??? Not really... Here's what didn't get proposed: 1. Registration of all handguns... 2. Certification that gun owners understand how to use them... 3. Ban on military style ammunition... I mean, let's get real here... We should be able to accomplish what Obama has proposed... I'll be composing letters tonight to my two senators and my congressman... Will you??? B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns From: olddude Date: 16 Jan 13 - 01:19 PM Ron I said that in the state of NY because you cannot own a handgun in this state unless you are licensed and to get a license is very complex so it is meaningless for New York state. Obama was talking federal and the ban on clips over 10 rounds was in place before on new firearms. apples and oranges. Bobster ya can't ban military ammo. A 30 caliber is an 3006 used for deer hunting. The Ak 47 fires a 30 cal round. The AR fires a .223 with is nothing more that .222 standard varmit hunting round .. besides ya can reload these anywhere |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns From: Ron Davies Date: 16 Jan 13 - 01:49 PM New owners of handguns in NY state will only be permitted a 7-round magazine, rather than 10. That sounds like it does have a meaning. Why is this not a good thing, which every reasonable person should advocate? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns From: olddude Date: 16 Jan 13 - 02:14 PM Because it is a non issue in NY. Look if you cannot own a handgun in this state unless the FBI approves, a judge, the sheriff, the chief of police, handgun training .. photographed, fingerprinted and full BG check with mental health checked also. If you pass all of that, what the hell difference does it make if you carry 7 or 14 rounds. So you have to go through the same shit as the state police do .. so why care. A person carrying legally has to pass the same thing as every cop in this state |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns From: olddude Date: 16 Jan 13 - 02:22 PM There is no private transfer of a handgun in this state. a registered handgun can only be sold to a licensed person that has a handgun permit. So what I am saying in NY magazine capacity for a handgun is meaningless because the only people who are suppose to posses one even in their hone must be licensed and registered or its a felony. So all of that new law in regard to handguns and capacity applies only to criminals who don't care anyway. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns From: Charmion Date: 16 Jan 13 - 02:42 PM *In New York*, olddude. In other states, things are different, and the subject legislation has to fit 50 different state jurisdictions and -- how many territories is it now? I thought getting things done in Canada was complicated, with 10 provinces and three territories. You guys have us beat all to hell. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 16 Jan 13 - 02:54 PM On the "Newtown Hoax": http://news.yahoo.com/why-sandy-hook-massacre-spawned-conspiracy-theories-184323398.html I must be pretty stupid, 'cause I think it happened pretty much like CNN, Fox, MSNBC, and Washington say. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns From: Charmion Date: 16 Jan 13 - 03:16 PM The whole freakin' world that had television was watching the moon landing, Lighter, but there are conspiracy theorists who purport to believe that was staged on some back lot in beautiful, downtown Burbank. When people are determined to cast aspersions and whip up suspicion, no amount of common sense or consensus will stop them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 16 Jan 13 - 03:25 PM There was a time when major news organizations didn't consider the ravings of lunatics newsworthy - unless they held public office. However, as news keeps morphing into interactive entertainment ("Tweet us what *you* think, and we'll read it on the air!"), that rule falls by the wayside. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns From: Ron Davies Date: 16 Jan 13 - 03:40 PM "capacity for a handgun is meaningless". Not so. The more felonies someone is charged with, the less likely he can plea bargain the sentence away. Remember how they got Al Capone. And if the limit discourages even one person from not buying a handgun, it's worth it. You still haven't told us why you feel it's necessary for life as we know it that anybody outside law enforcement and the military should have a handgun. So the more red tape the better. My sympathy for the poor gun owners is a bit limited. As is, probably, the sympathy of Newtown parents for said owners. D'ya think? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns From: Ron Davies Date: 16 Jan 13 - 04:30 PM "capacity applies only to criminals" |
