Lyr Req: Meic Stevens song - Nos Du, Nos Da

Subject: Meic Stevens song
From: margaret
Date: 31 Oct 99 - 11:22 AM

Help! I'm really interested in Welsh music and Welsh culture, generally. About fifteen years ago I picked up a tape called "Nos Du, Nos Da" by Meic Stevens. Despite my efforts with the Teach Yourself Welsh books over the years, I haven't yet been able to make out all the words (or to translate them, for that matter) to his songs and there's one song I'd really like to sing. It's "Y Paentiwr Coch." Can anyone help, or point me in the right direction? Thanks!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Meic Stevens song
From: wildlone
Date: 31 Oct 99 - 03:07 PM

Try A personal message to llanfair he might know welsh, or could point you in the right area, as he lives in Wales.wl.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Meic Stevens song
From: margaret
Date: 31 Oct 99 - 05:38 PM

Thanks, Wildlone. How do I do that?

Subject: Lyr Add: NOS DU, NOS DA
From: Bobby Bob, Ellan Vannin
Date: 31 Oct 99 - 06:36 PM

Wonderful artist, Meic Stevens. My particular favourites amongst many good stuff - Rue St Michel (an oldy but a gold nugget goody), and Lapis Lazuli, a more recent outing from Master Stevens. I saw him in performance at Yr Eisteddfod Genedlaethol a few years ago, and he was really excellent.

So this is NOS DU, NOS DA -

Nos du, nos da ffrindiau
'Sdim goleuni yn ein ty
'Sdim un seren, does dim lleuad
Does dim hwyliau ar y lli
Yma heno hebddo ti

Yma heno heb dy gariad
Dwn i ddim beth yw dy fwriad
Fo'lon marw am dy gwmni
Gwenlli, beth sy?

Sibrwd gwatwar, mwg y dafarn
Gwn i be' sy'n mynd ymlaen
Ar ôl y ffilach fe ddaw y daran
Nid hwn yw'r lle i bethau cain
'Mond pennau bach a bwgan brain

Heddiw, 'fory, drennydd, rhywbryd
Fe ddaw'r llanastr i ben
Yn y pen draw bydd datguddiad
Eglurhad daeth i'mhen
Ga i llygad hebog glas y nen

Hope this is of help. The Nos Du, Nos Da album was very good, and the track called Bobby Sands certainly helps to raise the frisson of non-comformism in Meic Stevens' material. He was touted at one time as a British answer to Bob Dylan. But fortunately he went back to his Welsh roots and produced a series of excellent albums of songs in Welsh.

Shoh slaynt,

Bobby Bob

Subject: Lyr Add: Y PAENTIWR COCH
From: Bobby Bob, Ellan Vannin
Date: 31 Oct 99 - 06:53 PM

Gow my leshtal, cha vaik mee dy row uss cheet er Y Paentiwr coch er-lheh.

Sorry, I didn't see that you were referring to Y Paentiwr Coch particularly.

Y PAENTIWR COCH

Bore'n glasu ar y bryniau
Paentiwr coch yn lliwio'i luniau
Cysgod y gwynt dros y gwenith melyn
Sêr yn chwyrlio mewn gromen y nos

Cymylau glaw yn dechrau torri
Melin wynt yn decharau malu
Egni'r haul yn ei dorth o fara
Afalau, caws, grawn a gwin

Arluniwr ynfyd o'r Isediroedd
Lluniau hardd ar waliau'r byd
Aur yr haul yn ei llydaid glas
Ond fe laddodd ei hunan 'slawer dydd

Cadair melyn, ffenest ar agor
Mewn cariad mae, ond mae'n dechrau marw
Harddwch y byd sydd yn torri ei galon
Y paentiwr coch a'i gynfas garw

Ta treisht orrym dy vel shoh myr vondeish. I hope that this is a some sort of help to you!

Shoh slaynt,

Bobby Bob (reesht)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Meic Stevens song
From: margaret
Date: 01 Nov 99 - 03:31 PM

A million thanks, Bobby Bob! I really appreciate your help, and actually I'm delighted to have the lyrics for Nos Du, Nos Da too. I recall that at the time I bought the tape, the folks who turned me on to him had said that Meic Stevens had angered a lot of people by turning his back on the Welsh language, so I'm glad to hear he's back at it. I love his voice (though now the tape is so old that it has begun to get garbled. . . must be time for another trip to Wales!). Thanks again. Margaret

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Meic Stevens song
From: GUEST,tegwyn
Date: 29 Jul 00 - 06:44 PM

Margaret...I see that Bobby Bob provided with the Welsh words for 'Y Paentiwr Coch', but am I right in thinking that you would like a (literal) translation? Please advise, and it shall be done.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Meic Stevens song
From: Margaret V
Date: 29 Jul 00 - 08:14 PM

Oh, tegwyn, I would be incredibly grateful! But I must warn you, if you are able to help me with Welsh translations, you may regret having offered in the first place. . . how are you with 19th-century englynion?! Diolch yn fawr, Margaret

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Meic Stevens song
From: GUEST,tegwyn
Date: 31 Jul 00 - 05:54 PM

Here is a literal translation of Meic Steven's 'Y Paentiwr Coch' It refers, as you know, to Van Gogh. The Red Painter The grey morning(1)is on the hills [The] Red Painter is colouring his pictures

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Meic Stevens song
From: GUEST,tegwyn (continued- I don't know what happene
Date: 31 Jul 00 - 06:30 PM

For margaret

THE RED PAINTER

The grey (1) morning is on the hills
[The] Red Painter is colouring his pictures
The shadow of the wind on the golden wheat
Stars whirling in the night's dome (2)

Rain clouds begin to break
A windmill begins to grind
The sun's vitality in its loaf of bread
Apples, cheese, grains [of corn], and wine

A mad artist from the Netherlands
Beautiful pictures on the world's walls
The gold of the sun in his blue eyes (3)
But he killed himself a long time ago

A yellow chair (4), an open window
He's in love, but he is beginning to die
The beauty of the world is breaking his heart
The red painter with his coarse canvas

(1) The Welsh 'glas' (depending on the context) can mean 'blue', 'green' or 'grey'. Here 'grey' seems to be appropriate - ''grey dawn'.
(2) Should be 'yng nghromen y nos'
(3) 'ei llydaid' is a misprint - should be 'ei lygaid' (his eyes)
(4) 'cadair' (chair) is feminine in Welsh, so this should be 'Cadair felen'
Not what you might call great poetry, but then...
I am prepared to have a go at some 19th cent. englynion, if you like,but I warn you, that shorn of 'cynghanedd', some of them can be very prosaic. Cofion caredig, Tegwyn.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Meic Stevens song
From: Margaret V
Date: 02 Aug 00 - 09:58 PM

Tegwyn, many thanks for the translation of "Y Paentiwr Coch." The beauty in songs is in the combination of the poetry and the music and the voice, I think. The words don't necessarily have to stand alone as great poetry when they are part of something larger; of course, it doesn't hurt at all when it IS great poetry! And speaking of great poetry... really? You'll look at the englynion? Fabulous! You'll like them, I'm sure; my cynghanedd identification skills, like my Welsh language skills in general, are rudimentary at best, but I'm pretty sure the cynghanedd is in there in most of them. Another kind mudcatter, Bron (aka Llanfair), has a friend who has had a look at some I sent. How do I get in touch with you so I can send them (and a longer explanation) along? Full of gratitude! Margaret

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Meic Stevens song
From: Margaret V
Date: 02 Aug 00 - 09:58 PM

Tegwyn, many thanks for the translation of "Y Paentiwr Coch." The beauty in songs is in the combination of the poetry and the music and the voice, I think. The words don't necessarily have to stand alone as great poetry when they are part of something larger; of course, it doesn't hurt at all when it IS great poetry! And speaking of great poetry... really? You'll look at the englynion? Fabulous! You'll like them, I'm sure; my cynghanedd identification skills, like my Welsh language skills in general, are rudimentary at best, but I'm pretty sure the cynghanedd is in there in most of them. Another kind mudcatter, Bron (aka Llanfair), has a friend who has had a look at some I sent. How do I get in touch with you so I can send them (and a longer explanation) along? Full of gratitude! Margaret

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Meic Stevens song
From: GUEST,Tegwyn
Date: 04 Aug 00 - 07:23 PM

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Meic Stevens song
From: GUEST,Tegwyn
Date: 04 Aug 00 - 07:41 PM

Margaret I'm off to the Eisteddfod tomorrow (Sat 5) and will be there until the following Sat (12th). Do you want to get in touch with me through my postal address, or could we continue our conversation by this method? 'Cynghanedd...in most of them' you say. An englyn would not be an englyn without cynghanedd. See you next week. Tegwyn

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Meic Stevens song
From: Margaret V
Date: 04 Aug 00 - 09:16 PM

Tegwyn, I hope you have a grand time at the Eisteddfod. It's probably best not to clog up poor old Mudcat with my poetry problems, so perhaps we can just e-mail one another. Alternately, if you feel like joining the Mudcat (it's free! utterly no strings attached!) then we could take advantage of the Personal Message function. Just let me know when you get back; I look forward to hearing from you. All the best, Margaret

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Meic Stevens song
From: GUEST,Tegwyn
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 11:41 AM

Margaret! Here I am, back after a most stimulating and enjoyable week at Llanelli. How do I join Mudcat? Regards, Tegwyn

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Meic Stevens song
From: Margaret V
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 04:36 PM

Hey, Tegwyn, welcome back! Glad you had a fine time at the Eisteddfod. To join Mudcat, just go up to the masthead and you'll see "membership" over towards the right. Click on it and you'll find a very simple registration form; the only required fields are asterixed in red. Fill it out and submit it and you will instantly be a member. The prefix "Guest" will then disappear from your name when you post, and you'll be able to send people personal messages that would be of little relevance to the broader audience of readers (do that through the "quick links" option above). You'll also be able to trace threads that are of interest to you so that it's more easy to find them after they have dropped off the page. Let me know if you have any difficulties and I'll try to help. Meanwhile my mother is going in for heart surgery tomorrow so things may be a bit hectic here, but I am earnestly looking forward to sharing these poems with you. All the best, Margaret

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Meic Stevens song
From: GUEST,Tegwyn
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 05:51 PM

Margaret. Done that. Now I'm a member. When you have a minute please let me know how exactly I may contact you now. Hope all goes well tomorrow. Regards, Tegwyn.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Meic Stevens song
From: sian, west wales
Date: 14 Aug 00 - 05:51 AM

OK ... now I'm wondering ... which Tegwyn? Tegwyn PanCelt? Croeso, beth bynnag!

sian

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Meic Stevens song
From: Tegwyn
Date: 16 Aug 00 - 06:06 PM

Siân. Not Tegwyn Pan Celt. Just an ordinary Tegwyn, but I believe I did once meet my Pan-Celtic namesake - a long time ago when the world was young. Is he from the Llanelwy area?. Diolch am y croeso. Beth yw'r cam nesaf? A oes angen i ni ohebu'n Saesneg? Cyfarchion, Tegwyn.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Meic Stevens song
From: GUEST,Bobby Bob, Ellan Vannin
Date: 17 Aug 00 - 03:55 PM

Yes, Tegwyn 'Pan Celt' Williams is from Llanelwy. I bumped into him last year when Yr Eisteddfod was in Ynys Mon, and we were staying across the bridge in Bangor. I think the time before that was when he became a bard, but I can't remember which Eisteddfod that was at - it may have been Bala.

He and his wife, Margaret, have been associated with the Pan Celtic for a good number of years, and ensure a high profile for the Welsh entry in the Celtafis by having the voting for it on television and radio. They always take a good number of performers and also people who go along for the pleasure of attending the Pan Celtic.

The Pan Celtic is back in Kerry again, albeit in Tralee, rather than Killarney, where I first met Tegwyn and Margaret many years ago. They also arranged a bit of a musical trip for musicians from the Isle of Man to North Wales - but that's also more years ago than I'd care to remember!

So nice to think of the other Tegwyn, too, arising out of this thread on Meic Stevens.

Pob hwyl,

Bobby Bob

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Meic Stevens song
From: Margaret V
Date: 17 Aug 00 - 04:58 PM

Hello, this is the ordinary Margaret (dual Tegwyns and Margarets in this thread!) reporting that my mother's heart surgery went without complications and now she is doing her very best to recover, quite weak but already walking a bit. We're all very relieved -- she most of all, I'm sure. Tegwyn, I'm not sure if you received my personal message or not. I know it took me a while before I noticed my first personal message -- but there's a blue banner above the list of threads that will say "1 active message" or something similar. If you click on it it'll take you there. Bobby Bob, good to hear from you again! I have learned to sing "Y Paentiwr Coch" properly now thanks to you (and thanks to Tegwyn my understanding of it is less impressionistic and more precise). All the best, Margaret

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Meic Stevens song
From: sian, west wales
Date: 21 Aug 00 - 08:38 AM

Teg,

Sorry, been off on mini-hols to Amsterdam! Did I say Croeso before? Bobby Bob's already filled you in on Tegwyn Pan Celt ... where would they be without him? I must get in touch to see if they'd consider holding some rhag-brofs in Carmarthen...

So what's your main passion, folk-wise?

Ac, oes, mae'r criw 'ma yn uniaith Saesneg o ran gohebiaeth. Chawarae teg... eu sustem nhw sydd 'ma. Mae Cymdeithas Alawon Gwerin yn gweithio ar rywbeth...

Sian