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are the Irish pipes suitable for airs?

The Sandman 25 Dec 12 - 01:08 PM
GUEST,Donegal fiddler 25 Dec 12 - 02:04 PM
The Sandman 25 Dec 12 - 02:59 PM
GUEST,Philippa 25 Dec 12 - 03:42 PM
Manitas_at_home 25 Dec 12 - 05:58 PM
Steve Shaw 26 Dec 12 - 07:01 AM
GUEST,Jack Sprocket 26 Dec 12 - 03:56 PM
catspaw49 26 Dec 12 - 05:38 PM
Tattie Bogle 26 Dec 12 - 06:50 PM
Tattie Bogle 26 Dec 12 - 06:53 PM
GUEST,999 26 Dec 12 - 06:54 PM
Tattie Bogle 26 Dec 12 - 07:28 PM
Jack Campin 27 Dec 12 - 05:15 AM
Tattie Bogle 27 Dec 12 - 05:47 AM
Jim Martin 27 Dec 12 - 06:47 AM
GUEST,Jack sprocket 27 Dec 12 - 06:57 AM
The Sandman 27 Dec 12 - 07:24 AM
Tattie Bogle 27 Dec 12 - 10:29 AM
The Sandman 27 Dec 12 - 11:06 AM
ollaimh 27 Dec 12 - 11:18 AM
Vic Smith 27 Dec 12 - 05:54 PM
GUEST,999 27 Dec 12 - 06:07 PM
Jack Campin 28 Dec 12 - 09:38 AM
GUEST,Lighter 29 Dec 12 - 10:48 AM
Tattie Bogle 29 Dec 12 - 01:39 PM
The Sandman 29 Dec 12 - 05:05 PM
GUEST,Don Gato 29 Dec 12 - 07:12 PM
Steve Shaw 29 Dec 12 - 08:45 PM
Jim Carroll 30 Dec 12 - 03:22 AM
The Sandman 30 Dec 12 - 06:08 AM
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Subject: are the irish pipes sutiable for airs
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 01:08 PM

according to Neilidh Boyle, not my opinion, in fact I think they are more suited to airs than anything else
I like Boyles fiddle playing, although occasionally he as the same flaws as Sean MacGuire, I was curious as to other peoples opinions, on both his playing and his opinions


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Subject: RE: are the irish pipes sutiable for airs
From: GUEST,Donegal fiddler
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 02:04 PM

Neillidh Boyle was a thrawn man. What's the source of this 'opinion'?

More importantly, what are the flaws in Boyle's and McGuire's fiddling?


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Subject: RE: are the irish pipes sutiable for airs
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 02:59 PM

neilidh boyle, himself, he states it quite clearly, in arecording.
"More importantly, what are the flaws in Boyle's and McGuire's fiddling" "
it is only" more importantly in your opinion", those flaws are only my opinion, and to me they are only occasional, so stop trolling


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Subject: RE: are the irish pipes suitable for airs
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 03:42 PM

eminently suitable


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Subject: RE: are the irish pipes sutiable for airs
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 05:58 PM

They are eminently suitable for airs but I think they are better suited for dance tunes. You don't need regulators and drones for airs but they are great for adding rhythm to the dance and maintaining a continuous flow of music which is good for dancing.


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Subject: RE: are the irish pipes sutiable for airs
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Dec 12 - 07:01 AM

They are eminently suitable for any music as long as they are in the hands of a player of skill and good taste. Next question.


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Subject: RE: are the irish pipes sutiable for airs
From: GUEST,Jack Sprocket
Date: 26 Dec 12 - 03:56 PM

The case against: they lack dynamics- they play at the same volume throughout. Expression has to be achieved by other means. This also makes them slightly dodgy for dancing, as players sometimes vary the duration of notes subtly for emphasis, but ideal for tunes as pure entertainment, which is how (in my limited experience) they are mostly used.

For the defence: Fabulous sound, drones to hyarmosnise with or dissonate against, regulators likewise, a best-part-of-two-octave compass with alternative fingerings for the tune note, a green bag with gold braid round the edges.

It's that last that clinches it for me.


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Subject: RE: are the irish pipes sutiable for airs
From: catspaw49
Date: 26 Dec 12 - 05:38 PM

Yes they are and I think they should be given as much air as possible......say freefalling from 45,000 feet. That'd be great. Send all pipes up there and kick 'em out. Then land and repeat the operation with a load of bodhrans and concertinas..........Yeah, give 'em the air I say!


Spaw


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Subject: RE: are the irish pipes sutiable for airs
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 26 Dec 12 - 06:50 PM

Aw Spaw thaw's naw very nawce! (Apparently there's something genetic about liking or hating reedy instruments -like our cat used to bolt for the back door when I started playing my button accordion!)

Fantastically atmospheric and mesmerising sound; hence used instead of Scottish pipes for "Braveheart"!
In the hands of Liam O'Flynn, Seamus Ennis, Eric Rigler, Davy Spilllane, Mike Goldrick, Finbar Furey and many others - yes, keep 'em coming - purr-lease!


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Subject: RE: are the irish pipes sutiable for airs
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 26 Dec 12 - 06:53 PM

BTW, not sure what prompted the initial thread with refs to other refs which I've not heard about and will therefore not be drawn into!


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Subject: RE: are the irish pipes sutiable for airs
From: GUEST,999
Date: 26 Dec 12 - 06:54 PM

"are the irish pipes sutiable for airs"

I would think so. However, it then begs the question: are they suitable for follicles? Stay tuned . . .


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Subject: RE: are the irish pipes sutiable for airs
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 26 Dec 12 - 07:28 PM

How could you not like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mwxga8udIio


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Subject: RE: are the Irish pipes suitable for airs?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 05:15 AM

Thread on TheSession this relates to.

Fairly pointless, and I don't think it'll get a lot more interesting by being restarted here.


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Subject: RE: are the Irish pipes suitable for airs?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 05:47 AM

Well thanks for the background info, Jack, but I agree, no need for that over here.


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Subject: RE: are the Irish pipes suitable for airs?
From: Jim Martin
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 06:47 AM

You bet they are! Just listen to Liam O'Flynn playing with Catherine Ennis (Seamus's daughter)- 3 mins into video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LumLZb0V8c


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Subject: RE: are the Irish pipes suitable for airs?
From: GUEST,Jack sprocket
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 06:57 AM

Thanks for the link, Jack, it puts it in a bit of context. In the 50's it's quite conceivable that the fiddler was referring to neither the Uilleann pipes nor the Highland pipes, but to the somewhat hybrid Brian Boru pipes- with regularised intonation and chromatic keys which extended the compass both upwards and downwards. Being deliberately loud for outdoor marching music, but lacking the poignant discords of the Highland pipes, they might well deserve disparagement as a vehicle for subtlety.


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Subject: RE: are the Irish pipes suitable for airs?
From: The Sandman
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 07:24 AM

pointless? hardly, it draws attention to boyles music, and also his opinions of his contemporary music.


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Subject: RE: are the Irish pipes suitable for airs?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 10:29 AM

Great track there from Jim Martin.

GSS, I looked at the thread on thesession.org, a site I don't very often visit except perhaps to look for tunes. It was the tone of some of the posts over there that put me off entering into any further discussion: besides I have inadequate knowledge of the people and recordings you are talking about to give a valid opinion, other than:
(answering your thread title question) YES


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Subject: RE: are the Irish pipes suitable for airs?
From: The Sandman
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 11:06 AM

yes , tattie, I really do not know why they object to me starting 2 threads.
it seems to me we can talk about it more amicably here,people on the session are supposed to be civil according to the rules, still i suppose their posts speaks volumes about themselves.
I think boyle was a very good fiddler , a bit showy , but with great technique and a clear love of the music, so i am intrigued by his disdain of the pipes[whichever ones he meant]


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Subject: RE: are the Irish pipes suitable for airs?
From: ollaimh
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 11:18 AM

i think airs sound beautiful on the irish pipes. when i was younger we used to go see tomas standeven (a former all ireland champion) play, he spent time learning cape breton fiddling and occasionally played old scottish airs on his pipes and they were magica moments. there are few more sad and bequtiful tunes than cape breton airs. they play them in scotura tuning to imitate the drones, so they were probably borrowed from the pipe world in the first place.

so i say yes


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Subject: RE: are the Irish pipes suitable for airs?
From: Vic Smith
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 05:54 PM

Are airs really suitable for the Irish pipes?
What we have here is reflexive didacticism.


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Subject: RE: are the Irish pipes suitable for airs?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 06:07 PM

Postmodernism here we come.


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Subject: RE: are the Irish pipes suitable for airs?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 28 Dec 12 - 09:38 AM

What we have here is reflexive didacticism.

Otherwise known as autocephalic introrectalism.


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Subject: RE: are the Irish pipes suitable for airs?
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 29 Dec 12 - 10:48 AM

Any instrument is suitable for anything if well played in the right context.

(The emotional range of the kazoo is probably limited, but that's not to say it mightn't work at certain weird moments.)


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Subject: RE: are the Irish pipes suitable for airs?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 29 Dec 12 - 01:39 PM

Well in the right hands and lips/playing technique yon kazoo can produce an amazing rasp - which seems appropriate to how this thread is now going!

Back on topic...... however (why even?)........I did go and see "The Brendan Voyage" at Celtic Connections a few years back: got a front row seat just below Liam o'Flynn - thoroughly captivated throughout! I already knew the piece from a recording, but to see it played live was amazing.


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Subject: RE: are the Irish pipes suitable for airs?
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 Dec 12 - 05:05 PM

yes, i saw the brendan voyage and thought it was great.


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Subject: RE: are the Irish pipes suitable for airs?
From: GUEST,Don Gato
Date: 29 Dec 12 - 07:12 PM

You don't need regulators and drones for airs

Available evidence suggests otherwise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aF3fW4Nox9U


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Subject: RE: are the Irish pipes suitable for airs?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Dec 12 - 08:45 PM

Absolutely, Don. You either use 'em and play great airs or you don't use 'em and play great airs. You play great airs because you are good enough to play great airs, and you get that by having a deep understanding of the origin and language of airs, as well as sufficient skill on your instrument allied to great musical sensitivity. No short-cuts. The person who posed the question, thereby sending a thread up shit creek sans paddle, doesn't understand this. There is no more to be said really.


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Subject: RE: are the Irish pipes suitable for airs?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Dec 12 - 03:22 AM

Sorry for the late entry into this
"Neillidh Boyle was a thrawn man."
Not a bad description.
We had a friend in London, the late Paddy Boyle of Ardara, Donegal, who grew up with Boyle's music.
Paddy didn't play a note, but was an important figure in the West London Irish scene - his children, Paul, Maggie and Kevin were/are noted musicians.
Paddy grew up immersed in Donegal music; a regular visitor to his family home was the legendary John Doherty.
When he heard we had recordings of Neillidh Boyle, those recorded by the BBC in the 1950s, he was anxious to hear what we had, so we obliged.
I later asked him what he thought of the recordings - his reply "I threw the tape on the back of the fire; I was never as disappointed to hear the change in somebody's playing".
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: are the Irish pipes suitable for airs?
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Dec 12 - 06:08 AM

The recordings on the cd are from the thirties as well as the fifties.


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