BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 06 Jan 13 - 08:37 PM

This sums it all up for me....

Dana Lone Hill:
"...you gain momentum with every soul you meet that don't give a shit about their future generations, it makes you fight harder for change. Because you never give up on hoping they too will see the light. That they will see what we do here and now will affect the next seven generations, whether that be for better or worse.
"See, really I can't tell you how not to be an activist. Because I care. And I think you do too. However, I will not give up on that awakening of your soul, when I think someday you will realize, enough is enough."

Taken from just one of dozens of Idle No More groups out there now...

United First Nations of Turtle Island - FB Page

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 06 Jan 13 - 08:28 PM

Bruce, I hear you, but...BUT...

First off, I disagree over Facebook, for it is Facebook that is DRIVING the whole Idle No More movement..It IS making a difference, and with respect, you need to be in there using it in the way I do to truly see what's going on. I also know it helped to bring in money to help save Pe'Sla..and that Amazon Watch also rely on Facebook donations to help them keep going. If they want something 'put out there' they'll come to me to ask me to put it on my page...Chief Raoni's European visit was organized via Facebook recently, in December, word of it also being sent out by Gert, who organized it, videos and photos being sent over from France almost as events were happening...It's instant and it works...

Secondly, and I most certainly don't mean to cause upset to you, but I don't give diddlysquat over the background or pedigree of any of the men mentioned above, for rude bastards are rude bastards, no matter where they come from, and no matter what their backgrounds may be.

I could write thousands of words about them and their sot, but, hey, I'll leave it to Shania

And just for the record, boys, I don't give a tinker's cuss if you like or dislike the way I write. I ain't never going to change..so just don't read it. Problem solved....

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: gnu
Date: 06 Jan 13 - 07:41 PM

No, 9... I have been far more offensive than that. Ed hit the nail on the head, as usual... sharp tack, that ED. I admit I responded to Ed's post too harshly... stunned? silly? Yeah, maybe. But I'll chalk it up to being a bit pissed about sommat else. That don't matter.

9... nowt to do with you. To do with ED's post and where it might lead.

If THAT pisses either of you off, well, schenacadaie. I don't find any of it offensive. If I am wrong, you KNOW I will grovel for forgiveness and truly mean it. But, right now, I don't see it. Maybe I am dense?

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Ed T
Date: 06 Jan 13 - 06:47 PM

999 I was refering to your comment on word useage, not to the initiative itself.-guess it was taken differently.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: GUEST,999
Date: 06 Jan 13 - 06:07 PM

gnu, that is as as offensive as anything you ever wrote, although I never yet found anything you wrote to now offensive.

OK, I'll shut up, but calm your friends down. I meant no disrespect to Ed, to Harper, to you. If you find what I said to be bad, then tell me why.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: gnu
Date: 06 Jan 13 - 05:49 PM

Time to whoa up and discuss. Too many important threads get closed when the personal stuff starts and it's heading that way, IMO.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: GUEST,999
Date: 06 Jan 13 - 05:49 PM

Ed, that's true, but we WILL bring this place to a halt. There are about 800 members of JTF 2, and there are about 40,000 of us. They don't have the ammo, no offense.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Ed T
Date: 06 Jan 13 - 05:25 PM

Feel free to be fed up, the world will not stop operating or spinning because of it:)

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: GUEST,999
Date: 06 Jan 13 - 05:09 PM

1) It's means "it is" or "it was". That's all.

2) Its is the possessive case.

3) I am now no longer White, no matter what you think I am. I am fed up with us/you, no offense.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Ed T
Date: 06 Jan 13 - 04:36 PM

One person not eating (with an ultimatum) is a consideration, but no more than that, IMO.

Current (local and international) social network concern is not a big factor, IMO. Take the seal hunt for example, the campaign is/was much more vibrant, but never moved any Canadian administration through many years, not one inch.

Potential economic impact on essential transportation is a more significant consideration, IMO.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: gnu
Date: 06 Jan 13 - 04:25 PM

"So, I ask that y'all stop fighting with each other and find some common ground."

Gee... where have I heard that before, 9? Good luck with that. Never worked before. Too many people SHOUTING and NObody listening.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Jan 13 - 04:07 PM

though those iniatiatives seemed to get less international and social media coverage

And, dare I say it, less of the mass histrionics that has beset the Spence PR? Maybe an object lesson in how to actually get things done?

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Ed T
Date: 06 Jan 13 - 03:51 PM

""Spence gets her meeting""

A clarification, news reports I read says Harper and reps. agreed to meet with Aboriginal community representatives, not with Spence. It indicated that if Spence choose to attend this meeting, (as she is a chief) it would also be fine.

IMO, the other aboriginal community initiatives were more fruitful in getting the meeting than the PR initiative by Spence - though those iniatiatives seemed to get less international and social media coverage.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 06 Jan 13 - 03:25 PM

"Considering the current climate, I did not anticipate this meeting occuring so soon, but have breathed a sigh of relief that it is happening."

It's a funny thing but there's a lot of things going on right now that feel quite positive, something in the air, I don't know, but people are mobilising around different causes that have remained in stasis for decades and even longer. Perhaps some of these movements are a little incoherent, but I find the way that people are currently communicating and mobilising themselves refreshing and the internet certainly seems to be playing a big part in it all.* Power to the people and all that! I hope Spence gets her meeting and things get moving for the indigenous people's movement that she's become a public figurehead for.



* as an aside concerning social media and it's impact (or otherwise, depending on your perspective) on modern politics, it's interesting to note that there's now a 'No Politics Please' (Nopple) app that one can install on Facebook.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Ed T
Date: 06 Jan 13 - 03:08 PM

Bruce,
Thanks for that - I hope it works.
The meeting is certainly an opportunity.
Time will tell if it will be focused on needed steps to resolve the most pressing issues first, without losing track on the many others that have piled up through the many years.

In previous careers, I worked in the field of community development, and worked with underprivlidged groups and communities and with primary producing groups, often helping them move their priorities forward with government. So, I understand the frustration with what seems to be a lack of progress, that can be interpreted differently by different people.

Personally, I am encouraged by the resulting growth in the maturity of the aboriginal movement. Considering the current climate, I did not anticipate this meeting occuring so soon, but have breathed a sigh of relief that it is happening.

Let's keep our hopes up, (and heads high), thet this is a true opportunity for progress that all Canadians can be proud to be a part of, in moving many of these issues forward to resolution.

M

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Jan 13 - 02:22 PM

Dave, I'd be willing to be the only reason you're posting in this thread is because Lizzie started it.

Guess you mean bet rather than be, Jeri. But if you were were willing to 'be the only reason' my whole life would be fulfilled :-)

Seriously though, if you do mean bet, you would loose. I would argue against anyone who come out with this type of hysterical nonsense regardless of the seriousness of the issue. In fact, the more serious the issue, the more important it is to address it correctly. The fact that I seem to argue against Liz more than others is simply indicative of the fact that that she does raise serious issues, but in such a way that makes a complete mockery of them. Look back through my posts and you will find I cross swords with many people, including those I count as my friends. I suspect you may find yourself in that group as well but, never once, has anyone suggested I have a vendetta against you or any of them! Liz has accused me of bullying, stalking, trying to shut her up and lying about my own and familial disabilities. Something I will not let lie without a fight.

Bruce. Thanks for your kind words. I do try to be reasonable. The only thing that I will continue to do, and will be called childish for it, which I am :-) is refer to Lizzie as Liz. 'Don't call me...' is a red rag to a bull I'm afraid. Schoolboy humour will win out all the time:-) Glad to see you agree about social media. We all agree about the abuse of the Native Americans. What we can disagree on is that it is more important that the the plight of the Kurds, or the Australian Aborigine, or the Suomi, or Irish Catholics, or any other of the millions of abused peoples around the world. Maybe the American Indians are just prettier or more fashionable in some eyes?

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Jan 13 - 02:16 PM

Yeah, that was pretty much what I was trying to say.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: GUEST,999
Date: 06 Jan 13 - 02:03 PM

Jeri,

Prime Minister Harper has agreed to meet with Chief Spence in five days. However, Indians have been lied to before once or twice, so the protests will continue until such time as they are halted. They mean no offense, but in the parlance, "We heard that one before."

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jan 13 - 01:57 PM

Liz, thank you, but listen up gal. These people agree with where you're coming from. That is, they basically agree with you. Although they may not have your fervency about the issue, let's look at facts.

Greg is a good man. He spent time in the American west on a Sioux reserve where he was an activist.

Ed is a Maritimer who really does know the plight of Indians and he addresses that in almost all his posts.

Dave has been the epitome of reasonableness when he gets the chance. I think he's from England, and if so, for a Brit he's pretty darned cool, no offense to either of you.

In the words of who(m)ever, "What we have here is a failure to communicate."

The issue is not one of personalities; it is one of indigenous peoples having a helluva time with their governments. In my own family I have four nephews. They all have the same mother (my sister) and father. Nephews 1, 3 and 4 have treaty rights. Nephew 2 does not. We have written to the band, the chief, our respective members of parliament, the department of Indian Affairs, INAC and half the rest of the alphabet plus the UN, the prime minister (at least three) and maybe Amnesty International. So, I have three nephews with the last name of Day and one with the last name of Murdoch. I do not need any White telling me it's fucked up. I KNOW that.

We have to accept our friends as they are, and even though they may disagree with particular points we feel important, they will back us when the shit hits the fan. I disagree with the people I've mentioned on several things, as do they with me, but they are good people finding their ways too, as am I on odd numbered days.

So, I ask that y'all stop fighting with each other and find some common ground. Fuck Facebook. It don't mean shit. What means something is that for once Indians are getting organized. Despite the wrongs that have occurred, those of us who are Indian or those of us who know the cultures intimately also know that we cannot do it on our own. When all the White folks argue about 'us', we inevitably lose. So, in a word, kiss and make up. Or not. But at least make up. Or at the very least, stop arguing about us.

Bruce Murdoch

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Ed T
Date: 06 Jan 13 - 12:54 PM

Liz kinda-cornish,

Open,and all sided discussion on all perspectives on a thread topic s is allowed on all BS threads (if you can understand what all sides means), as it leads to fruitful discussions and the airing of a variety of opinions/experiences.

Regardless who opens the threads, the topics do not belong to you (ebven though you post as if you have some type of BS possession). This differs a lot from your facebook account where you can stop discussions that do not agree with your one perspective.

Have you ever noticed that most of your personal insults involve backsides, (and sometimes objects). While this mayb be a fixation of yours, I suggest you should broaden your horizons, and respect that otherts are not as fixated as you are.

RESPECT, Liz

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Jan 13 - 12:43 PM

Dave, I'd be willing to be the only reason you're posting in this thread is because Lizzie started it.

Has someone already mention Harper has agreed to meet with Chiefs on Friday, and Chief Spence is staying on her hunger strike because... well, it might happen, and it might not.

This has actually been reported on in the US. Marginally.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 06 Jan 13 - 12:40 PM

See? Oh my, one of them timed his post PERFECTLY to coincide with what I've just written.. Well done, Squawker!

And now, BACK to Idle No More, Chief Spence and Stephen Harper....

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 06 Jan 13 - 12:37 PM

"Why not treat other posters - those with different perspectives than you with respect Liz"

Firstly, do NOT call me Liz. Only Bruce has my blessing to do that. Anyone else who does that after I've asked them not to I consider to be smellier than a pile of dog poo...

Secondly, Physician Ed, Heal Thyself.


Bruce, trust me on this one...if you know the right way to use Facebook for the Good, you can get many things rolling. If you connect with like-minded people/groups/movements, then you have a VAST conversation going on. There are many specific group pages now in FB where people invite others they know will be prepared to help and spread the word about certain things. From these pages MUCH is passed around the world.

Sadly, a great many people only use it to discuss what they had for tea last night, and that's fine, I guess, for each to his own, etc...but there's a great deal of wonderful things going on in there now..

As to the jibes, well, I'm being far better than I used to be about biting back, but sometimes, they just need a really good verbal kick up the backside.. ;0) The thing that REALLY gets to me though, is that if *I* were behaving in such a manner in one of *their* threads, they'd be shouting to the rafters about it, messaging all the mods etc...Never could stand Hypocrites and these fellas I put into that category....

They're like Squawking Parrots...and of course, now they'll all be Sqauwking shortly "Liz, Liz...!" just like the jumped-up piles of steaming dog poo which they conjour up in my picture-filled mind.....

Sorry to be unladylike, but I don't give this out in the first instance, I merely respond to some of it. Ed came into this thread purely to have a go at me, as have others, who have NO interest IN this thread at all....Then....*I* end up being called a 'troll' by one of Mudcat's Mods. Cool, huh?

Liz :0) x

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Jan 13 - 12:29 PM

It sort of goes like this, Liz. Someone says something which someone else disagrees with. That first person says, OK, I accept that there are alternate viewpoints but I still believe that I am right. They then go on to re-visit their case, providing proof or evidence of what they feel that their opinion is more valid than the second persons. The second person than says. Hmmm. Maybe you have something and then either modifies or strengthens their viewpoint with evidence of their own. And so it goes unto all avenues have been explored and all is either in agreement or a respectful disagreement is agreed. At least that is what happens with grown up people in what we term our society.

Now, lets look at the alternative. Liz screams that the world is wrong and everyone can fuck off apart from those who agree with her. Someone else, Ed and I at the moment but it could be Folkiedave or Greg F or any one of dozens of others that say, Steady on Liz. We can see what you are on about but we can't agree with the methods.. Surely all that passion and energy can be better utilised to really help the cause. At which point Liz goes ballistic.... You scum of of the earth are nothing but bullies and stalkers. You have no souls you want nothing but to belittle the entire female of the species. Why don't you go back to singing your fucking boring folk songs with your fingers up your arse and leave real people like me alone. Just fuck off. Fuck off and fuck off and understand that I have every rigth to fucking swear, try to fucking belittle you and fucking browbeat everyone to my point of view without sad little fuckers who know fuck all trying to point out the truth.

I do my best to avoid personal attacks but, sorry mod team, there is only so much crap I will take. Now, Liz, if you would only keep your word from umpteen other threads and ignore me without responding to my posts I would be more than happy. Thanks in advance.

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Jan 13 - 11:26 AM

And I can ASSURE you that the Idle No More movement and the word about Chief Spence has grown and GROWN ****BECAUSE**** of Twitter and Facebook!!

Well, if Saint Liz the Oracle can ASSURE us, that settles it. It MUST be true!

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Ed T
Date: 06 Jan 13 - 10:41 AM

999 - thanks for trying to bring back and civility into the discussion. Silencing people does nothing to convert them.

There is indeed prejudice an Canada and the USA, as with elsewhere, towards aboriginal peoples. However, hopefully we live in a society where these prejudices can be minimized and gradually eliminated, like they have been in many cases.

Aboriginal issues need to be brought to the forefront of issues in these countries,that for the most-part are wealthy societies. It is the only way to move forward, end poverty and to restore the Aboriginal peoples to ther rightful place in these societies and lands.

My recollection is that most causes of this nature benefit from actions that draw attention to the plight of the people involved and it is rare that someone is not inconvenienced in one way or another.
It is rare that change comes from good wishes alone.

There are always extremists involved in in all movements (on both sides), but normally the majority of people fall near the middle on most issues. Fear of actions by the extremists often stimulate those in the middle to discussion to resolve issues. Hopefully, reasonable folks on both sides are prepared to meet this challenge and opportunity and discussions lead towards measures to resolve many of these issues. They likely will not be resolved overnight - but, the route to progress must be made clear to all parties involved - some of these issues have been around for far too long.

(side message to Liz:I have been a promoter of Canadian Aboriginal rights on here for some time (IMO, my posting record would prove that). However, that does not mean I will "be silenced" by you when I disagree with claims made by anyone on current approaches to resolve some of the associated issues, which I feel are "out of whack". Anyone can be right or wrong-open and respectful discussion will lead more toward logic than rude posts or attempts by anyone to silence other posters. So, talk to the hand).

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: GUEST,999
Date: 06 Jan 13 - 10:12 AM

I have some friends who live in Akwesasne and they are often hassled for no good reason when they cross the border--usually by the Americans. I am happy to see Indian people getting POed at last and changing silent resentment into real-life action. It took Chief Spence to get it happening, but at last it is. These actions will inconvenience some people, that's for sure. But I have to ask, "So what?" So few ever gave a damn about Indians anyway. IMO, it's time.

Liz, one lesson I learned way back: do NOT respond to jibes. Let people say what they want because they will anyway.

Facebook has helped bring this situation together, for sure, but usually that site is only good for people with a twenty-second attention span. The real business gets done with e-mails and telephone calls. Facebook has been and continues to be fucked up in regards to security and the disdain with which it treats members. Don't laud its virtues. It has few, imo.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Ed T
Date: 06 Jan 13 - 10:02 AM

And, then of course we can forgive rude poster-folks, with poor posting attitudes towards fellow 'caters - those who cant understand why others may just see things differently then them.

Why not treat other posters - those with different perspectives than you with respect Liz - not just aboriginal peoples in countries where you do not reside? Agressive and one sided discussions rarely convert anyone in the vast world.

Respect is most often earned and kindness and ubnderstanding in posting is most often reflected back.

Sometimes enemies are merely a figment in one's own mind.

:))

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 06 Jan 13 - 09:41 AM

Dave and Ed, why don't you go and start your own thread on Facebook's importance to the world. This is about Idle NO More, Chief Spence and a Fuckwit named Harper, who I'm seriously starting to think you two may well be related to! You can also nitpick about me as much as you want in there. This is a polite way of saying, For Fuck's Sake Fuck Off..Thank you...


Meanwhile, back at the origins of this thread, here is a Wonderful video of the Idle No More movement! This is a HUMAN RIVER OF DETERMINATION! :0)

Idle No More on the Cornwall Akwesasne International Bridge!

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Ed T
Date: 06 Jan 13 - 09:08 AM

There are people who post most often from behind and there are people who choose to post gas ... and there are the very few who are good at both :)

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Jan 13 - 07:27 AM

I'll repeat my request. In your own words, Liz, you will not shut me up :-) From my post 4 Jan 11:25 am -

OK - Educate me. Give one major piece of any governments policy that has changed purely due to Facebook. I am not talking just public opinion here either

The only 'proof' offered so far is that Tesco (a major piece of Government policy?) changed it's mind due to public opinion on twitter. (Facebook? Not just public opinion?)

I don't think that is a very well conceived argument I'm afraid. Which I know you will not care about but I think I can be satisfied knowing that, like most of your spurious claims, this one can be dismissed as well.

Now, I will agree wholeheartedly that the supporters of the Idle No More movement have increased due to Facebook and Twitter. Just as the followers of the other pages I quoted earlier have increased. It is inevitable that social media will attract people to popular opinion. It is NOT the other way round I'm afraid. It is easy to do. It costs nothing and it gives people that warm fuzzy feeling that they are helping while all the while nothing gets done. Social media does not create popular opinion; it just reflects it.

It also gets abused by some extremist organisations who are, sadly, popular in certain quarters. They can use it to mimic people as well you know. Have you never noticed that, Liz? Was it not you who ranted and raved against Fakebook when there were numerous pages purporting to be yours?

Now, if you want me to leave your thread I suggest that you start a Facebook page about it. Or contact Max, or Joe or another Mod. Because while nonsense is being talked and sold to us as truth I will not sit idly by and let the manipulators of fact get away with it. Put that in in your peace-pipe and smoke it :-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: gnu
Date: 06 Jan 13 - 07:24 AM

Rail lines blockaded in Kent County, NB, CAN


Aboriginal protesters close off lines as part of Idle No More movement

BY GAIL HARDING

TIMES & TRANSCRIPT STAFF (2013.01.06)

ADAMSVILLE - Native flags, colourful signs and the sounds of drums were on dis­play yesterday along Route 126 in Adamsville.

Members of the Elsipogtog First Nation set up a blockade yesterday in this Kent County community of the Canadian National rail line that links Moncton to Miramichi and northern New Brunswick. The blockade was part of the Idle No More protests being held across Canada. The actions are against the federal government's recently passed Bill C-45.

The blockade ended last night at 7 p.m. A number of attempts were made to contact protest organizers to determine if they would be returning to the site this morning to continue the protest.

The protest was organized by the Sikniktuk Mi'kmaq Rights Coalition based in Elsipogtog. This was the second protest they have held as part of the Idle No More movement. The first protest was a traffic slowdown on Highway 11 near Kouchibouguac days before Christmas.

John Levi was one of about 15 protesters standing in the light snowfall and cold yesterday afternoon.

See PROTESTERS , A10



Article Continued Below

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
See PROTESTERS on Page A10



Protesters blockade CN Rail line between Moncton and northern N.B.

Continued From A1

Levi said the protest was being held in support of Theresa Spence, chief of Attawapiskat First Nation in northern Ontario, who has been on a hunger strike since mid-December. Spence has been asking to meet with Prime Minister Stephen Harper to discuss First Nations treaty rights. It was announced yesterday the two are scheduled to meet in a week, on Jan. 11.

'We are waiting for Harper to meet with Theresa Spence,' Levi said. 'And we are tired of sitting … doing nothing.' As others cut branches and wood for a small fire to keep war m, Levi spoke about his community's involvement in the protests.

'We are staying here for four days, 24 hours,' he said yesterday afternoon. 'There will be someone here at all times.' Despite saying they would remain at the site for four days, the protesters left early yesterday evening.

CN spokesman Jim Feeny said last night that CN Rail engineers inspected the track where the blockade occurred. Once it was confir med safe, 'we began the process of moving normal passenger and freight traffic.' The westbound Via Rail passenger train headed to northern New Brunswick passed through the area shortly after 8 p.m.

Feeny said it is not known if the protesters will return to the site to continue the blockade today.

The protesters said earlier yesterday they would allow the Via Rail passenger train to go through. It was expected to travel on the Newcastle Junction line early yesterday evening on its way to Miramichi.

Instead of allowing the train to go through, Via Rail had planned to put passengers from the fully booked train on charter buses and send them to Miramichi.

When the protestors heard what Via Rail was doing, they pointed out they were still causing an inconven ience to the rail line.

'The only train we are stopping is the CN cargo train,' said Levi.

When asked how they would prevent the train from going through, Levi said he would put his truck across the tracks if he had to.

'If they try to force their way through then we will block the Via one also.' But the likelihood the protesters would see any trains this weekend is slim. Feeny did confir m the company had shut down that section of the line yesterday afternoon, advising Via Rail of the closure.

Feeny said CN will monitor the situation if the blockade continued over the weekend.

'We are presently evaluating the situation.' District 5 RCMP and CN Rail police are monitoring the situation.

The native protesters say they picked the spot because it is traditional native land and Adamsville was the site of a trading post.

'My great-grandfather was here in 1901,' said Levi.

As protesters of all ages came and went from the blockade, some motorists honked in support of those waving signs. As they walked back and forth to stay warm, Noel Augustine and Cathy Levi spoke about their community's support for the Idle No More protests and the support for Spence. Six of their community members are in Ottawa on Victoria Island with Spence. One man, Joseph Jean Sock, joined Spence on her hunger strike on Dec. 18. Cathy Levi described the man as a warrior, a sun dancer who was becoming weaker daily.

The community has raised funds to help with travel costs for those staying in Ottawa.

'We needed to help them (with) food and clothing and to get them back and forth.' Both said they are very committed to the Idle No More movement and the fight against Bill C-45.

'At the end of the day you can't drink your dollar. We still need our water,' said Augustine.

RON WARD/TIMES & TRANSCRIPT

It was not known last night if the blockade will resume today.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 06 Jan 13 - 05:33 AM

For the Non-Believers in here who are talking out of their backsides most of the time, ask TESCO why they pulled out of the government's 'Pay People NOTHING to Work For You' scheme a few months back...You'll find it was because of what happened on Facebook one evening, when the word was spread about these Corporate Feckers and what they were doing. Within HOURS their page was covered in THOUSANDS of comments calling for the downfall of their business, people saying they'd NEVER shop there again etc...They could NOT remove the comments fast enough, nor ban people quick enough (myself included). The NEXT DAY they announced they were pulling out of this scheme and Sainsburys also announced they would not be a part of it.

This also took place on Twitter...and if you DON'T believe me, then you can read all about it HERE!

Now, either start your own thread on the power, or lack of, if that's what you TRULY believe, OR, get off my back, because whether you like it or not, I KNOW how to use Facebook FAR BETTER than you!

And I can ASSURE you that the Idle No More movement and the word about Chief Spence has grown and GROWN ****BECAUSE**** of Twitter and Facebook!!

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 06 Jan 13 - 05:22 AM

YEAH!! :0)

"..Thank you to all who are making this necessity, this dream...a REALITY!..." - Buffy Saint-Marie

Buffy Saint-Marie delivering a message to the Idle No More Movement and Chief Spence

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: gnu
Date: 05 Jan 13 - 08:05 PM

The Hair just approved the sale of assault weapons by Canucks to Columbia... I assume that applies to all other countries too? Free trade is cool, eh? Even if he signed the deal without the approval of Parliament? We get fresh fruit from them and they get death from us. Great deal.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Jan 13 - 07:23 PM

I mentioned on another thread that I work for a major supermarket chain. Oddly enough the only one, as yet, not to offer an online service but VERY aware of the internet and it's effects. Because of this we propose to enter the online world in a way that will benefit everyone concerned and we have learned considerably from others mistakes.

I am a computer specialist and, as all such in this market sector, am acutely aware of the role of social media and am actively involved in 'spreading our message' through this media. I can assure anyone out there that the sway held in this whole sector is, as yet, tiny. We are very aware it will grow, but also know that it will grow in the way dictated by, not public opinion, but commercial demands. It is just the way of the world.

Anyway, presumably by the lack of response about what major policies Facebook has changed can we assume that the claim about the power of Facebook was grossly overstated?

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Ed T
Date: 05 Jan 13 - 12:29 PM

I am often involved in leading event marking initiatives. Last fall I included facebook and Twitter messaging in promoting a local event.

My analysis, (from onsite surveys) was that the impact of twitter was marginal. We asked staff to list the event on their facebook account, and to also encourage family, friends and neighbours to also do so. The event covered a few days, and we also asked attendees (who liked it) to share the information on their facebook accounts.

The analysis was that the facebook initiative to be worthwhile, as it complemented other marketing initiatives, and reached some segments (youth) that may have been difficult to reach through traditional routes (newspapers, radio, TV, internet posters, and internet and community bulletin boards).

However, this was a local initiative and involved targeted facebook use. If I found that 1 million people in China read about it on social media, it would not have helped much in getting folks to attend our event .

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: number 6
Date: 05 Jan 13 - 11:46 AM

Very good post Ed T. ... I totally agree ... I think people seem to over estimate the influence social media has... it is good for spreading knowledge, but beyond that it does not provide a spark to get the engine going, so to speak ... but, as you say it may evolve.

The corporate/military oligarchy is firmly dug in protecting the power they have ... they know change is going to come, and it has to come but they are hanging on very tightly to what they have.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Ed T
Date: 05 Jan 13 - 11:34 AM

""I'm quite surprised at the posts here dismissing them as a tool for change""


I am not sure that folks on here have in fact done that, at lease in the way you seem to describe. I suspect it was more to do with this specific situation, and wild claims that seem to have been made that do not seem to be backed up in any logical type of evidence (considering other significant factors are also in play).


Social media is surely a growing factor in information sharing. But,unfortunately reliable techniques to measure the effectiveness of this avenue seem in many cases to be deficient, compared to many other traditional information sharing avenues. I suspect this will evolve, but, IMO, it is not there yet in mostv cases.


I often think of how one could measure the effectiveness of dumping leaflets out of airplanes when I consider many of the wild (and unmeasured) claims as to the effectiveness of some social media initiatives.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 05 Jan 13 - 11:27 AM

Yes Guest, "Spence" it is - I just spotted it a second after I posted! No edit function..

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jan 13 - 11:21 AM

No offense, but it's Spence.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 05 Jan 13 - 11:18 AM

I've only dipped into this thread and haven't really got anything to say on either Harper or Spense, but as to the current thread drift, considering the very significant and much discussed impact that social media (including networking sites such as Facebook and Twitter) have had on the face of international politics in recent times, I'm quite surprised at the posts here dismissing them as a tool for change! Plenty of serious articles analysing their role in modern politics out there for those interested in such subjects.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Bob the Postman
Date: 05 Jan 13 - 09:55 AM

I reckon the hole in the ground is a tar sand mine. Google images has many similar pictures.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Jan 13 - 08:05 AM

Nothing yet then? Can we have an estimate at least please?

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jan 13 - 02:39 PM

So, those are both examples of the power of Facebook are they? No Kudos to Spence for her hunger strike? Not even sure what that second link is about! What is it?

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Jan 13 - 01:53 PM

"It Is Not The Indians You Should Be Afraid Of' - Facebook photo

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Jan 13 - 01:40 PM

Harper FINALLY agrees to meet First Nations Chiefs!

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jan 13 - 11:25 AM

Dave, you have NO idea of the power of FB when it's used by the right people in the right way...

OK - Educate me. Give one major piece of any governments policy that has changed purely due to Facebook. I am not talking just public opinion here either - That existed before Facebook and will last a long time after. I am talking about Facebook being a major political player and going head to head with major policies.

I don't expect one to be pulled out of a hat. I expect it will take you some time and research. Let me know how long it will take you to -

1. Come up with the policy that was changed
2. The Facebook page that changed it and, most importantly,
3. Proof that it was Facebook that achieved it.

Take as long as you like. Just let us know what the deadline is so we know when to check back

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Jan 13 - 09:04 AM

And Liz, of course is the right person using the techno-addicted international narcissist site (Mommy! Mommy! Look at Meeee!!!) the right way.

Bollocks.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 04 Jan 13 - 08:26 AM

Dave, you have NO idea of the power of FB when it's used by the right people in the right way...

Get over it!