BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 04 Jan 13 - 08:24 AM

OK, Bruce...FBI agents...but I still think they're working overtime at present to try to stay in control...and Ed Woods and Joe Trimbach (and son) are out there on the internet filling it with lies and nastiness about Leonard Peltier, they have many aliases on Youtube and Facebook, plus many sites of their own...Little Shit Stirrers! They're linked up with Paul Demain (spit!) who seems to have cast a spell over Denise, for wherever Paul goes, Denise follows...(Anni Mae's daughter, that is)

Hawaii is joining in now!!

Got myself an Hawaiian flag to sort out later this evening! :0)

I never knew, until this morning, the the British flag is in the left hand corner of the Hawaiian state flag. Dates back to the 1800s, apparently, allegedly due to friendship between the countries (hmmmmm...)

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Jan 13 - 08:41 PM

45,00+ (I assume 45,000+?) on the Idle no More pages???

Shakira 58,000,000 +

Coca Cola 56,000.000 +

South Park (Lets move it to Canada eh?) 43,000,000 (Nearly 1000 times more than idle no more if your maths ain't up to much.)

Mr Bean 33,000,000 +

The Beatles (Not been around since 1970 but what the heck) 30,000,000

Patrick Star (Yes, from Sponge Bob Square Pants) 19,000,000 +

Need I go on and what is the point?

Facebook is NONSENSE. It is no indication whatsoever of the support for important issues. Facebook is run by the media moguls and sanctioned by government. It could not survive otherwise. It is often hijacked by irresponsible loonies but that is exactly what it is intended for. While the loonies are active of Facebook, they are doing nothing useful.

How much support and activity does Al Qaeda have on facebook? The Taliban? Any other serious anti-western organization? Very little indeed. Not only is it the tool of the ruling media but it is fast becoming the Marxist opium of the people.

Just think about it.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: gnu
Date: 03 Jan 13 - 08:09 PM

Good points, all round.

I was taken aback at the lack of support at the protest I attended in Moncton recently but it was was an odd day to hold it... in the middle of the holidays and shopping days? Whatever.

What really pisses me off is that the feds are fucking over EVERYone to get this pipeline built and nobody can get organized to hold them responsible to do it right. Fact is, it's gonna get built BUT all we, natives and pale, can do now is try to get it done right. If ANYone thinks the Irvings are gonna say 'nevermind', they are mindless. It WILL get built... just ask the Chinese. They got pretty good hair too. And THEY got cash!

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: GUEST,999
Date: 03 Jan 13 - 08:07 PM

Thank you, Ed. I do know where you're coming from. And I agree enough that while I think you're wrong, I also think you're right about it being unwise to hold a gun to the head of someone who owns the best snipers in the business.

Liz, the FBI hasn't been scared shitless for decades. It's an organization, and organizations don't scare. Maybe three or four individuals in it are checking retirement options when this all goes wrong but I doubt it's more than that.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 03 Jan 13 - 07:42 PM

Thanks for that link, Bruce...I've just put it on the page of a british journalist who's trying to stir up racial hatred against Chief Spence. He should, hopefully, shortly start to choke on his putrid words, as I hope, will anyone else who says such things about her....

45,00+ on the Idle No More page now...growing by the hour..

I've just had some great photos made for me, flags of Brazil, Australia and America with the 3 feathers across them...been loading them up with links and info on Idle No More and Indigenous Issues happening in each respective country..Canadian flag coming over to me tomorrow..

SO many Idle No More 'group' pages out there in Facebook now too, all arranging powwows and meetings..It's all a-buzz in there...great to watch! And what's even more lovely to watch is the Pride starting to grow now, that Connection starting to happen, and with that is coming a confidence which is growing each and every day!

WONDERFUL to see!

Bet the FBI are shit-scared! Ha!!

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Ed T
Date: 03 Jan 13 - 07:23 PM

999

Note that is do not challenge the cause of the native movement in any way (lets get that out of the way) - but I do challenge the wisdom of lumping so many things together and elements of the approach (for example supporting the Spense action).

While many forms of action may unite groups, it does not necessarily gain success (if the definition of success and progress is clear within the group). There have been cases where unwise and unstrategic actions do more harm for unity over the long term.

Regardless of your personal views on the democratic pocess, again, I also feel it is a strategic mistake for the aboriginal community to challenge the right of a democratically elected majority government to pass all that is in these bills. IMO, it would be much wiser to focus on matters directly related to plight of the native community within Canada, not what one personally sees as democratic process or not. IMO, that element (which I see as political) is not winable through this initiative at this time.


Maybe I will be proven wrong. That is just my opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: GUEST,999
Date: 03 Jan 13 - 07:00 PM

I think, as I said, Chief Spence has made a mistake. I also think that omnibus bills are not a democratic way to do things, especially in OUR democracy.

That aside, for Indian people, talk has done nothing. So asking people who have waited for over 125 years to have patience because maybe the next election will change something when the last forty-one haven't just doesn't cut it, imo.

I agree that Idle No More is disorganized, but disorganized or not it helps unite the people involved even if it does nothing to rectify the ostensible reasons for its existence.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Ed T
Date: 03 Jan 13 - 06:33 PM

What I see are many different people involved with a spectrum of complaints/dislikes. IMO, to obtain broad support-success in such initiatives it is best to keep the cause-messages easy to understand, and unwise to lump many related and some unrelated complex issues into one initiative, as this movement does.


Additionally, I am not even sure if the folks involved in the various elements of the initiatives have considered exactly how success would be determined?

Regardless, IMO, it is a downhill battle when ultimations are issued. Few governments react positively (especially in the short-term) under such situations. I suspect doing so undermines their effectiveness to govern - and opens the door to similar actions by other (often some less popular) movements.

Lets agree (for the sake or discussion) that Aboriginal Canadians have been treated poorly and need a better deal. Outside of prejudices, that issue is easy to understand by the population and has a possibility of some form of discussion that would lead to successful resolution (these won't be resolved overnight). I suspect that making a case that additional consultations on impacts to the native community is needed is also one that may be seen as reasonable.

However, it is not reasonable to add to this a challenge that a democratically elected majority government cannot enact federal bills-actions that it sees fit, and good of Canada and generally Canadians, (like it-them and the process or not, it does fall within the parliamentary rules of the Canadian democracy).

I understand that some Canadian folks on here do not personally like this government and some of the legislation involved in this bill - that is their right (they have a chance to change the government in three years or so). But, this alone should not cloud reason. If the causes at hand were not seen as popular (to them), would the approach being used (by others, seen as much less deserving) seem just as alluring?

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: gnu
Date: 03 Jan 13 - 05:47 PM

Good article, 9. Thanks.

DtG... "Or that all Canadian Conservatives are heartless unfeeling plunderers." Well, it only really takes one... with good hair.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Jan 13 - 01:25 PM

No probs, Bruce. Even if I thought it was aimed at me, which I didn't, it was at least phrased in a sensible manner. The article did not surprise me in the slightest. As long as governments have given out money to people, others have said that it is, has been or will be misused. There must be hundreds of thousands of such accusations fly around the world and, in this digital age, it is getting worse.

What does surprise me is the gullibilty of people who believe such accusations and reports are 100% true. On ALL sides. There are some wonderful Canadians and some pretty evil ones. There are those of the indiginous people who are honest and virtous, just are there are ones who are manipulative, lying bastards. There is an equal ammount on both sides but I do hope I am right whan I say the good outweigh the bad in all cases. Unfortunately it seems to be the bad that tend toward rule. It seems to be in their character.

Let us, however never believe them when thay say that one nation is any better than another. That all Germans eat babies. That all Indians scalp men and rape women. Or that all Canadian Conservatives are heartless unfeeling plunderers.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Jan 13 - 11:42 AM

Dave, not knowing what she's talking about has never got in Liz's way before, and isn't likely to in future.

That, however, is no reflection on the serious issues being discussed.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: GUEST,999
Date: 03 Jan 13 - 11:35 AM

Dave, please believe me--that post wasn't aimed at you. And thanks for having read the article. The misrepresentation of Indian peoples in Canada has been long-standing. Justifiably they are upset and basically fed up.

I agree that Chief Spence is a politician--hell, most chiefs in Canada are elected. (The only Chief for Life I know of is in Alberta but there may be others.) She has to be political. That said, Ottawa is very screwed up when it comes to Indians. Bill C-45 is an outrage in many ways. I think Chief Spence moved and spoke too quickly. The racism in this country towards Indians is palpable and very ugly. With no offence meant, Europeans have had a strange view influenced by the Anglican and Catholic churches. I understand that Indians are big business in Germany and more a curiosity to most others, all the way from "they are nothing but savages to what a noble people they are." They're just people, period, some good and some bad in about the same proportions one might find in any other population.

Keep well.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Jan 13 - 11:10 AM

Funnily enough, Bruce, I was going to comment that the link you sent was about the best I have seen in any of these debates. Factual, to the point and interesting. The only thing I was unsure about was the relevence between this and getting Harper 'out'. But, putting 2 and 2 togetehr and, hopefuly, getting 4 you are actualy refering to the, to my mind, irrational slagging off of Chief Spence.

I hope you don't think that my comment was having a go at her. I do believe she is a politician when all said and done and I would not trust her with the fluff from my belly-button but no-one deserves to die for a political stance. My point was that the thread opened with the statement that it was an 'indefinate' hunger strike. Something which is impossible and reporting it as such only makes it look like the poster does not know what they are talking about.

BTW - I think if you reveiw some of my past political posts you will see I am of the opinion that there are lies, damned lies and statistics.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: GUEST,999
Date: 03 Jan 13 - 10:50 AM

Dave, I realize as you mentioned earlier that long treatises are not appealing to you. In few words, the link I gave explains that the 90 million figure that gets tossed around is inaccurate and it also points out that Chief Spence's salary is approximately $71,000/year.

From the sounds of things on this thread many hope that Chief Spence will die and if she doesn't she's a bad person for staying alive. There seems to be a "hurry up and die because you're fucking with my TV time" tone and it's not very nice--that remark is not directed at you.

Isolated communities are expensive in terms of education, food, clothing, electricity, medical care and housing. The price of most things doubles because transportation is so costly.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Jan 13 - 04:58 AM

I must say that I am far more intrigued by the plight of Chief Spence now that I notice that she is on Indefinite Hunger Strike. I wonder how that works? Do they keep bringing you back to life after you have died? Or does it mean that the hunger strike is not actualy life threatening? Maybe that could answer your questions, Garg.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: GUEST,999
Date: 03 Jan 13 - 01:45 AM

Article worth reading unless you have preconceived notions about Indians.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 02 Jan 13 - 11:43 PM

Where in the F...n ....H---l ya been the last 48 hours?

Your leader could have faminesd...while you were swilling egg nog.

Your tribe has been proved a farce....and no one gave "a rat's ass in fart hell."

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

When do YOU believe the blights of fish famine will remove her double chin?

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Jan 13 - 06:42 PM

I'm sure Mr. Harper was duly impressed by your toddler-style tantrum on the phone, Liz. Keep up the good work.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 02 Jan 13 - 06:04 PM

Well, I know it's hard for you NOT to act the idiot, Greg, but hey, try as hard as you can just to rant and rage...and if NOT acting the idiot for once causes the tears to come, just make sure you keep the phone a little further from your mouth...perhaps placing it up your arse until the tears have stopped, although I do appreciate this may cause MORE tears for a while..

Maybe you should just go shopping instead....

Thank you.....

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Jan 13 - 06:00 PM

If we phone, do we have to cry? Or should we just rant and rave and otherwise act the idiot?

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 02 Jan 13 - 05:47 PM

>>>Stephen Harper: telephone number in Ottawa is 613-992-4211, but given he is in Calgary you may also want to try his constituency office at 403-253-7990 (the message says the office is closed, but you can still leave a voicemail CALL HARPER AT 1 OF THESE #<<<<


I rang both numbers earlier this evening, left two messages..managed NOT to cry this time, but ranted and raged instead...

Every bit helps, so if you're reading this, why not phone too...?

Be Idle No More!

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 02 Jan 13 - 05:38 PM

"The Iroquois Confederacy says the federal Conservative government is planning to end Canada's obligations to Indigenous peoples and terminate their distinct status in the country.

Haudenosaunee Grand Council, which represents the still existing Iroquois political structure that predates contact with Europeans, said in a statement that the Stephen Harper government aims to destroy "any semblance of nation-to-nation relationships."

The confederacy said it would also not recognize Bill C-45, the omnibus budget bill the included changes to the Indian Act and withdrew federal oversight over the majority of waterways across the country................."

Iroquois Confederacy says Harper government seeking to 'destroy our collective sovereignty

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Greg F.
Date: 01 Jan 13 - 10:17 AM

Interesting....

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: GUEST,999
Date: 31 Dec 12 - 02:29 PM

"It was an organized attempt to draw attention to the idle no more/failed occupy movement and their dog's breakfast of issues, unfocussed and disjointed, and more importantly, manipulated by the NDP behind the scenes to incite social unrest to make the Government less popular"

Hell hath no fury like a Conservative scorned. As for NDP manipulation, fawk, get a life. They couldn't organize a one-car funeral, and that's the Party I support. If you have specific charges to bring against Chief Spence, say what they are, sign the accusations and press forth. What you wrote is not the stupidest thing I've ever seen on Mudcat.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 31 Dec 12 - 01:45 PM

What a nice name...and thought ..."Idle No More" ... sounds like they are going to get a job and get off the govt. dole.

Theresa Spence looks more like a well feed porcine Budda than a starving Gahdi.

I agree with the accurate accessment that heads of government should never bend to the whims of hunger strikers or terrorists.


She should be healthier after shedding the blubber of winter.

There is something fishy going on there. She still has her double chin. That must be some nice rich "fish broth" she is "fasting" on.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

"On too many First Nations, sexual abuse, profound dysfunction and physical violence are the stuff of daily life." ( Allison Dempster/CBC News/ The Attawapiskat reserve. )

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: GUEST,moonhowler
Date: 31 Dec 12 - 01:17 PM

Chief Spence has brought embarrassment to First Nations people as a result of her corruption and financial mismanagement. She exposed her own Band members to poverty, unsafe conditions, and high risk of harm. Funds were available to prevent this from happening but she allowed these conditions to continue. Her actions are criminal.

She staged a 'hunger strike' to divert attention from her shame. She even managed to get the attention of a few Liberal candidates currying their own publicity. She attempted to skip the channels of communication through extortion. The PM, the Government, and most Canadians are not buying it, and more importantly, intolerant of these manipulative publicity stunts.

This whole exercise is a fraud. It was an organized attempt to draw attention to the idle no more/failed occupy movement and their dog's breakfast of issues, unfocussed and disjointed, and more importantly, manipulated by the NDP behind the scenes to incite social unrest to make the Government less popular. Chief Spence is the poster child of this disorganized conspiracy.

Chief Spence should apologize to her Band members, and then to Canadians, for attempting to capitalize on the misfortune she created. She should be facing criminal charges for what she has done.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: GUEST,Paddy McBollox
Date: 31 Dec 12 - 10:08 AM

My Facebook isn't "Lighting Up" with any of this, neither are those of my FB friends, many of whom are very politically active and aware. No one is even mentioning it. Maybe you have to be inside the bubble to believe you really are saving a country you have never visited and a people you know little about (apart from what other people on Facebook have told you). Still, if Facebook is acting as a kind of Care in the Community now for some of the more zealous posters and their ever-changing lists of essential campaigns, at least it's taken some of the pressure off Mudcat.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Dec 12 - 04:40 AM

In the interest of fairness, and bearing in mind that I believe ALL politicians from ALL sides are manipulative sociopaths (Why else would they believe they can run OUR lives?) here is the other side of the story

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 30 Dec 12 - 02:36 PM

Some excellent links about Chief Spence and Idle No More on this page:

Dennis Banks FB page - A Good Day To Die

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Dec 12 - 02:01 PM

Whilst you're in here being your usual foul selves,....

Take a pill, Liz --- or just feck off.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Dec 12 - 01:58 PM

Not quite scary, Ed. Worrying that someone can see nastiness in anything but, to be honest, I am quite used to that. People tend to judge others by their own standards and, while mine do slip occasionally, I know they are intrinsically sound.

Welcome to the club of un-witting stalkers and cyber bullies! Just make sure that if you ever do anything for anyone else, that you let as many people as possible on Facebook know how good you are. It is the new way to heaven apparently:-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Ed T
Date: 30 Dec 12 - 12:07 PM

Is there an echo in here?

Or, is it just the ghost of Christmas Past?

Either way, it is truly scarrry :)

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 30 Dec 12 - 12:00 PM

Whilst you're in here being your usual foul selves, Facebook is lighting up with photos of those supporting Idle No More and Chief Spence..I'm just about to make some photolinks for people in Edinburgh who are out there with their placards, and for the Aborigines over in Australia...and....and...and...

Stop being nasty and get busy HELPING!!
This is about YOUR children and grandchildren's future!

Unless, of course, bitching about me is what you consider to be THE most important thing in your lives, in which case, how deathly sad you are......

Right, I'm off to do some FB work now!

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Ed T
Date: 30 Dec 12 - 11:40 AM

Dave

In my 20's I took courses in Jiu-Jitsu. The first night of the course I recall trying to hold a board rididly in front of me, as the instructor kicked it. I got whacked in the front of my head. From this, I learned to move the board over my shoulder and head, when it was kicked, directing and reducing the kick energy.

The life lesson I learned from that is best not to resist a force, but it is more effective to try and channel the force where you want it to go. That "bump on the head" has helped me throughout my life and I passed it on to my kids. IMO, it is a good life lesson for anyone:)

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Dec 12 - 11:27 AM

Very sensible of you, Ed. I have no interest in the boxing ring now either. I did teach Tai Chi for a while and still practice regularly. I find the principle of Ying and Yang helps in all walks of life. The harder people push the more likely they are to find that they are pushing at nothing and end up flat on their face :-)

I was interested in Aikido for a while as well but it got a bit too physical for my old bones. I got to like it when someone explained it was the principle of not being where you were expected to be or doing what you were expected to do. I suppose I have mastered the art at work at least...

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Ed T
Date: 30 Dec 12 - 11:08 AM

No problem Dave.

As to boxing, my observation is some boxers just throw a lot of punches wildly, hoping they hit something (anything). IMO, that strategy rarely amounts to much, as the boxer runs out of energy.

Best to just keep your distance from "wild punchers" - that is, if you plan to get into a boxing ring. Personally, my boxing days are past :)

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Dec 12 - 10:48 AM

Do some research, Dave, instead of aiming yet more punches!

Huh? My research was plain for all to see. I explained that I have problems reading reams of inter-bollocks and asked for people to help out. Which they kindly did. Thanks again Ed and all.

And just who is aiming punches at who or what and why?

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Ed T
Date: 30 Dec 12 - 09:37 AM

Happy to help out Dave.

Your assessment seems to sum it up. While public relations initiatives surely have an impact (influencing folks one way or the other) - in democracies, political issues are normally solved through the political process within the nation involved.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 30 Dec 12 - 07:52 AM

'world' not 'word'
Although a New Word Order could be interesting.. :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 30 Dec 12 - 07:50 AM

And of course, the British Monarchy is involved here too, this being Canada...Do some research, Dave, instead of aiming yet more punches! Read up how Chief Spence also is calling for the Governor-General to meet with her, alongside Harper. You'll find a link to the role of the GG in here:

The Queen and Canada




The 'Idle No More' Movement is growing on an hourly basis. This is becoming not just about Canadian Indigenous issues but about ALL Indigenous issues and all Sociopathic Leaders and Destroyers of Mother Earth. It has become a Movement of people who are coming together to say "ENOUGH!", who are worried sick about Future Generations and what will be left for them to deal with.


You'll also find this story in the UK's Guardian Newspaper and I've no doubt it will soon be in others, for Chief Spence has lit a fire which is spreading around the world...

Harper is a Sociopathic creep who has no concern for anyone other than himself and his cronies..Dilma Rousseff of Brazil, is EXACTLY the same, as are so many 'leaders' around the world.

Oligarchy - The New World Order - NOT for much longer though, for the NEW New Word Order is rising like a Phoenix!

We now have someone working on getting Chief Raoni and Chief Megaron to join up with Idle No More to and start things moving over there..Megaron himself mentioned joining forces with North America on his recent trip to Europe and now the person who organized that trip has seen the massive potential in doing that, we're hoping to get this sorted out soon. He's not long back from that trip around Europe and had been out of the loop, internet-wise, for a couple of weeks, so he knew NOTHING about the Idle No More movement....

When I sent him a wealth of info over last night he was STUNNED!
And then, he was EXCITED! :0)

He's spending today reading up about it all and then he'll be in contact with Raoni and Megaron...

I can't WAIT! Colombia is already rising...and hopefully, soon, the rest of South America will be joining them...

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Dec 12 - 02:48 AM

Thanks Ed, Bruce and all explaining the facts without the histrionics! I understand now - An elected politician is doing stuff that the people who elected him don't like. Seems pretty familiar... :-) Like Sandy mentions above, it seems that this guy does not care about popular opinion. Maybe voting him out at the next election would be a better alternative than wasting time on petitions that are going to be disregarded? Just my 2 pen'urth.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 29 Dec 12 - 09:59 PM

Harper doesn't give a rats ass for democracy or starving Indians either! He has an agenda to persue and petitions and protests are not likely to melt his heart of stone! The authority to govern the country has been hijacked from Parliament by an arsehole with a following of brown nosed MP's. Sadly the people of Canada seen fit to elect him and now are forced to watch in horror until he can be kicked to the shitcan of history. I hate to give anyone the impression that I don't like the bastard but I'm afraid the shoe fits!

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: number 6
Date: 29 Dec 12 - 05:12 PM

@Peace ... "This kind of thing is serious." ... it's very serious, if you cherish democracy.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Peace
Date: 29 Dec 12 - 04:44 PM

"This right-leaning government has has chosen to shortcut normal parliamentary process and lump a bunch of bills together (that would have passed anyway, given his majority) under a big budget bill and has has limited debate in the house of Commons."

Ed nailed it. I'd mention at this point that the National Defense Authorization Act [NDAA] in the USA passed in just such a way and within it was a right for the President to suspend habeas corpus in the USA. This kind of thing is serious.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Ed T
Date: 29 Dec 12 - 02:26 PM

Dave - I will try to explain briefly without taking sides (but, I caution, it is my interpretation - and others may disagree with it)

In a nutshell- Harper's Conservatives have a majority government (got it a little more ethan a year ago).

This right-leaning government has has chosen to shortcut normal parliamentary process and lump a bunch of bills together (that would have passed anyway, given his majority) under a big budget bill and has has limited debate in the house of Commons. There has been concern about the impact on future parlimentary debate and process.

A couple of these bills has a stated goal of reducting federal red-tape in development projects proposed near many waterways (much of Canada is near a waterway of some type) designed to stimulate economic development. Opponents say these changes will limit public debate and impact the enviroment (there is some differences in opinion on that, as noted in the link below).

According to polls I have seen, IMO, there is support for increased econimic development, and concern for the environment - the degree of sopport for either differs in regions of Canada, as does the Harper government's support base. The opposing political partiies are currently in dissaray (though thet may change).

Canada's aboriginal community (some folks see indian as a deragatory term) is mostly based in rural areas, many in remote locations. Economic conditions in many of these communities has been extremely poor, as has been governance (for a variety of historic reasons). Treaties exist, but interpretations differ and action to define and implement these has been slow, (often involving the courts).

An aboriginal person (who leads one group) has been on a hunger strike, requesting to meet the Prime Minister directly (Nation to Nation) to resolve a host of aboriginal issues, including concerns for reduced environmental protections (as noted in the bills above). This request has not been accepted. I suspect theb aboriginal community strongly and broadly supports her initiative (not sure about the national native group that is elected to generally speak for the many communities).

A host of "anti-Harper government" individals and groups (and those with environmental and other concerns) are standing behind the hunger strike - which I suspect they see as a best opportunity to deter the Harper government from its course (as the majority status makes it complex in parliament) through social medis, petititions etc.

(Added to the debate is environmental-economic development concern on both sides for a couple of large "energy" projects (one is a pipeline to transport "tar sands" oil, that has had significant environmental backlash, in Candada and elsewhere).


So, there are a multitude of issues that are at play behind a woman who is using a hunger strike to try and obtain change to government policies and actions.

Navigable Waters Protection Act -another perspective

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: GUEST,999
Date: 29 Dec 12 - 01:32 PM

Dave, just a guess. I'm gettin' thin on the top, too.

Harper just got a bill passed that is not good for Canada's environment. It unprotects many many rivers and infringes on treaty obligations our government has with Indians/Native North Americans/First Nations people. (Part of my family is First Nations, but we refer to ourselves as Indians.)

There was little consultation on Bill C-45, and frankly most thinking Canucks are really pissed off both with aspects of the bill and the way it was done. Before the bill I just wanted him to lose the next election. Now I hope he has a massive coronary. For those of us who love this place Bill C-45 is disgusting. Those who voted for it deserve to rot, and the sooner the better. imo

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Ed T
Date: 29 Dec 12 - 11:01 AM

Recent Canada wide poll on the environment.

Environment-Economy (Canada)

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Dec 12 - 10:50 AM

Thanks Bruce - Now I know the who but maybe not the why! How did you guess I may have hair envy anyway? Not all Gnomes are bald you know :-)

But I am...

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: GUEST,999
Date: 29 Dec 12 - 10:43 AM

Stephen Harper is Canada's Prime Minister and there's no reason for you to be involved in getting him out. People would just write that off to hair envy, no offense.

Subject: RE: BS: Get Harper Out - Petition (Canada)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Dec 12 - 07:19 AM

Who's Stephen Harper and why should I be interested in getting him out? Is he any worse than David Cameron? Or Gordon Brown before him? Why were there not petitions in Canada to get them out? The English First Nation were rebelling against them but no-one seemed to support us.

Please bear in mind that I have a serious disorder that means I cannot read reams and reams of web nonsense or internet bollocks and tell me why I should care, what actions I should be taking and how it will benefit me in short paragraphs and easy to understand words.

Cheers

DtG