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short film about banning folk music

Jack Campin 01 Jan 13 - 09:58 AM
Penny S. 01 Jan 13 - 10:22 AM
Elmore 01 Jan 13 - 10:38 AM
bradfordian 01 Jan 13 - 12:02 PM
GUEST,Stim 01 Jan 13 - 12:23 PM
GUEST,Fred McCormick 01 Jan 13 - 12:46 PM
GUEST,Stim 01 Jan 13 - 02:24 PM
open mike 01 Jan 13 - 02:33 PM
Jack Campin 01 Jan 13 - 02:56 PM
JohnInKansas 01 Jan 13 - 03:42 PM
GUEST 01 Jan 13 - 04:40 PM
fat B****rd 01 Jan 13 - 04:52 PM
Leadfingers 01 Jan 13 - 06:55 PM
Joe_F 01 Jan 13 - 10:05 PM
Jack Campin 02 Jan 13 - 08:19 AM
fat B****rd 02 Jan 13 - 08:31 AM
GUEST,Stim 02 Jan 13 - 01:57 PM
open mike 02 Jan 13 - 03:38 PM
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Subject: short film about banning folk music
From: Jack Campin
Date: 01 Jan 13 - 09:58 AM

This is pretty funny.

Be Happy! It's an Order!

(The ban was real, and not funny at all - some kinds of Turkish music never recovered).


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Subject: RE: short film about banning folk music
From: Penny S.
Date: 01 Jan 13 - 10:22 AM

What a tangle of comments underneath.

I thought we were going to get Rondo alla Turca as the Mozart.

Penny


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Subject: RE: short film about banning folk music
From: Elmore
Date: 01 Jan 13 - 10:38 AM

Made me laugh. Thanks Jack.


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Subject: RE: short film about banning folk music
From: bradfordian
Date: 01 Jan 13 - 12:02 PM

Like!


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Subject: RE: short film about banning folk music
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 01 Jan 13 - 12:23 PM

That's great, Jack! Profound message about politically enforced social change, and the saz is such a great instrument...


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Subject: RE: short film about banning folk music
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 01 Jan 13 - 12:46 PM

Sorry folks. That was me, or rather it was my keyboard throwing another wobbler. As I was saying.

Frightening and yet uplifting.

Frightening because that's exactly the way totalitarian regimes behave towards anything they dislike, including music.

Uplifting because music is an international language. It unites the whole human race, and yet it's different everywhere you go.


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Subject: RE: short film about banning folk music
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 01 Jan 13 - 02:24 PM

You would think this was the action of a totalitarian regime, Fred, but you'd be wrong. These bans were part of the modernization under Attaturk--he was a progressive leader .He created a secular Turkish republic out of the shards of the Ottoman Empire. He replace theocracy with Western style democracy. Food for thought...


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Subject: RE: short film about banning folk music
From: open mike
Date: 01 Jan 13 - 02:33 PM

this happened in many times and many places..
the Romany in Hungary and Romania started the
Dance House movement in response to similar bans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%C3%A1nch%C3%A1z

http://www.indiana.edu/~ceus/events/HungarianSymposium.pdf

http://www.fulbright.hu/book1/marytaylor.pdf


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Subject: RE: short film about banning folk music
From: Jack Campin
Date: 01 Jan 13 - 02:56 PM

Tanchaz isn't a Romany thing, and Romany musicians, singers or dancers are not often found at them. In fact some of the supporters of the Tanchaz scene are anti-Roma racists (though they are such a small minority they generally shut up about it in public and just dance like everybody else).

Ataturk's regime was a hybrid of social democracy and fascism. (Drowning the entire leadership of the Communist Party in the Black Sea wasn't exactly liberal tolerance). The attempts to regulate music were one of the fascist elements of his programme, inspired by Mussolini but actually more drastic than anything the Italian Fascists tried in that direction.

In private, most of what Ataturk listened to was Turkish art music. Whereas most of the last few Sultans had been enthusiasts for Western music and sometimes composed it. The incoherence of the soldiers in that film is spot-on.


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Subject: RE: short film about banning folk music
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 01 Jan 13 - 03:42 PM

Currently in the news:

From alcohol to kites: An A to Z guide to the Islamic Republic of 'Banistan'

By Wajahat S. Khan, NBC News

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan — Last month, it was cellphones. Before that, it was motorcycles, shawls and jackets. Earlier this year, it was the BBC, Twitter and YouTube. In 2011, it was porn websites. In 2010, it was Facebook. In the 1990s, it was Indian television and musicians with long hair. In the 1980s, it was Salman Rushdie's "Satanic Verses." And in the 1970s, it was booze.

All banned. In Pakistan. By Pakistan.

...

It goes on, and on, ...

Even in the US and UK, everybody wants to be first to sign the petitions ...

John


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Subject: RE: short film about banning folk music
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Jan 13 - 04:40 PM

"a hybrid of social democracy and fascism."--don't those two, seemingly antithetical, often accompany each other? In order to create a more open society, progressive leaders tend to purge the "reactionary" elements. And so it goes...


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Subject: RE: short film about banning folk music
From: fat B****rd
Date: 01 Jan 13 - 04:52 PM

Thank you, Jack.


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Subject: RE: short film about banning folk music
From: Leadfingers
Date: 01 Jan 13 - 06:55 PM

And Irish Traditional music was nearly irradicated , and but for there introduction in the early years last century of Irish American music , Lord knows what we would have now


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Subject: RE: short film about banning folk music
From: Joe_F
Date: 01 Jan 13 - 10:05 PM

Can anybody translate the Greek comment? That would be interesting.


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Subject: RE: short film about banning folk music
From: Jack Campin
Date: 02 Jan 13 - 08:19 AM

Google says for the longer Greek quote:

If you notice you will see that today in Greece this is trying to do, not with law but .... manner. View all foreign "popakia" and normally have buried the traditional music. Considered too "advanced" to the new snubbed the Greek music, so when you say that you hear and Mountaki Aidonidis to say "choriataro" as if it were a curse (I speak from personal experience).


which describes a process much like what's happened to British traditional music at the hands of the cliche-about-aran-sweaters media brigade. From what I've seen of Greek traditional music, he's right: the older traditional music (predating rembetika, the bouzouki-led stuff, and singer-songwriter music) is very hard to find now and very few people value it.

I think what happened in Greece was closer to what happened in Ireland than in Turkey; the Turkish repression was mainly aimed at the more developed forms of music that had grown up under the Ottoman regime (somewhat like the Puritan discouragement of complex and expensive liturgical music in Britain) and the folk music of the countryside wasn't policed as much. Whereas in Greece and Ireland the clergy wanted rural secular folk music obliterated and had nothing at all to put in its place; but they weren't strong enough to shut down music-making in urban centres.

Google doesn't help me understand the series of short comments in Greek, except they seem to be snipy and bad-tempered.


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Subject: RE: short film about banning folk music
From: fat B****rd
Date: 02 Jan 13 - 08:31 AM

Some years ago in Chania (Crete) I asked in a record (CD) shop if they had any Rebetika music . The slightly horrified young lady delved under the counter and politely sold me two compilation CDs. That night mine host at the local taverna was amazed that I'd bought them and proceeded to play his bouzouki in what he called "nothing after 1930 style". Not a Zorba in sight.


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Subject: RE: short film about banning folk music
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 02 Jan 13 - 01:57 PM

Once, long ago, I was walking thru a cultural fair with a friend who was a highly regarded Turkish classical musician and came across a group of Armenians(some of whom, I later learned were affiliated with ARM), and they rush out and embraced him, hugging and kissing and crying out his name. "We know him for years. He plays for our dances."

And, in the same time, there was this Israeli cafe where the Palestinian and Israeli students used to eat kebabs, argue politics, drink coffee(and the best ice tea ever) sing together, and occasionally dance amongst the tables and chairs."We're cousins. We argue, but we don't fight."

So, maybe, whatever the leaders say, people still will sing and dance together. Maybe that's the best hope we've got...


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Subject: RE: short film about banning folk music
From: open mike
Date: 02 Jan 13 - 03:38 PM

thanks for clarification....i do recall that the Irish dancing was done with arms at the sides so as to not be so visible by the powers that might be looking on ....


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