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Lyr Add: The Pipie o Dundee

Jon Bartlett 03 Jan 13 - 03:06 AM
Jim McLean 03 Jan 13 - 04:36 AM
MGM·Lion 03 Jan 13 - 05:01 AM
MGM·Lion 03 Jan 13 - 09:14 AM
GUEST,Jon Bartlett 03 Jan 13 - 06:47 PM
Tattie Bogle 03 Jan 13 - 08:00 PM
Jim McLean 04 Jan 13 - 08:19 AM
Jack Campin 04 Jan 13 - 08:54 AM
Jim McLean 04 Jan 13 - 10:49 AM
Gavin Paterson 24 Jan 16 - 12:47 PM
MGM·Lion 25 Jan 16 - 10:21 AM
MGM·Lion 25 Jan 16 - 10:23 AM
MGM·Lion 25 Jan 16 - 03:00 PM
Gavin Paterson 25 Jan 16 - 03:25 PM
MGM·Lion 25 Jan 16 - 03:56 PM
Lighter 25 Jan 16 - 06:09 PM
Gavin Paterson 26 Jan 16 - 01:09 PM
Lighter 26 Jan 16 - 06:22 PM
GUEST,Tam 15 Sep 16 - 06:50 PM
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Subject: Lyr Add: THE PIPER O' DUNDEE
From: Jon Bartlett
Date: 03 Jan 13 - 03:06 AM

This (which I remember from Robin Hall) should be added to the DT: can someone explicate the Jacobite references?

Jon Bartlett

The Piper o' Dundee

The piper came to our town,
To our town, to our town
The piper came to our town
And he played so bonnielie
He play'd a spring the laird to please
A spring brent new from 'yont the seas
And then he gae his bags a squeeze
And played anither key

Chorus:
And wasna he a rougey, a rougey, a rougey,
And wasna he a rougey, the piper o' Dundee

He play'd "The Welcome Ower the Main"
And "Ye's Be Fou and I'se be Fain"
And "Auld Stuart's Back Again"
Wi' muckle mirth and glee.
He play'd "The Kirk", he play'd "The Queen"
"The Mullin Dhu" and "Chevalier"
And "Lang Awa' But Welcome Here"
Sae sweet, sae bonnielie

Chorus

It's some gat swords and some gat nane
And some were dancing mad their lane
And mony a vow o' weir was ta'en
That night at Amulrie.
There was Tillibardine, and Burleigh
And Struan, Keith, and Olgivie,
And brave Carnegie, wha' but he,
The piper o' Dundee.

Chorus


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Subject: RE: The Pipie o Dundee
From: Jim McLean
Date: 03 Jan 13 - 04:36 AM

It's in the DT under Piper of Dundee. Incidentally I don't remember hearing anyone sing 'a piper came to our town',
it's normally sung by Scots as ' a piper cam tae oor toon'


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Subject: RE: The Pipie o Dundee
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 03 Jan 13 - 05:01 AM

And why "Pipie" in the thread title? A 'pipie', or 'pipey', is surely the Pipe-Sergeant or Pipe-Major [depending on which regiment] in a Highland regiment. {Once again, see George MacDonald Fraser, in this case his Pte McAuslan and Lt Dand McNeil stories of life just after the war in the Gordons in McAuslan In the Rough, The General Danced At Dawn, The Sheikh And The Dustbin.}

~M~


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Subject: RE: The Pipie o Dundee
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 03 Jan 13 - 09:14 AM

The pipie is also, I recall, the first character introduced in Hamish Henderson's Farewell To Sicily, aka Banks Of Sicily, or in full, The 51st Highland Division's Farewell To Sicily; followed, a verse or two later, by his obvious co-ranker, the drummie.

The pipie is dozie, the pipie is fey
He winna come roon for his vino the day
The sky ow'r Messina is unco an grey
An a' the bricht chaulmers are eerie ...

The drummie is polisht, the drummie is braw
He cannae be seen for his webbin ava.
He's beezed himsel up for a photo an a'
Tae leave wi his Lola, his dearie.

~M~


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Subject: RE: The Pipie o Dundee
From: GUEST,Jon Bartlett
Date: 03 Jan 13 - 06:47 PM

My apologies - yes, it's already in.

Jon Bartlett


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Subject: RE: The Pipie o Dundee
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 03 Jan 13 - 08:00 PM

But it should be Ogilvie, not Olgivie in the last verse.

The piper, Carnegie, of (various spellings) Phinaven, Finaven (currently known as Finavon) was involved in rallying troops for the 1715 Jacobite rising in "Amulrie" (now known as Amulree), but changed sides. Amulree is now a tiny place in rural Perthshire, but was then an important junction on the old military roads north. The Battle of Sheriffmuir took place at that time.
(Info also on Joe Offer's own website and from Nigel Gatherer on The Session website).


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Subject: RE: The Pipie o Dundee
From: Jim McLean
Date: 04 Jan 13 - 08:19 AM

Another wee correction as from Hogg's Jacobite Relics " ... and then he ga'e his bags a wheeze ..."
The chorus was notated as to be sung after
" .. And played anither key" chorus
"Wi muckle mirth and glee" chorus
"Sae sweet, sae bonnilie" chorus
"That nicht at Amulrie" chorus

There is no mention of a final chorus (after "the piper o 'Dundee) but I suspect it would have been sung.


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Subject: RE: The Pipie o Dundee
From: Jack Campin
Date: 04 Jan 13 - 08:54 AM

Is there any period source for this, or did Hogg make it up?

Presumably it parodies an older text, since the tune predates 1715.


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Subject: RE: The Pipie o Dundee
From: Jim McLean
Date: 04 Jan 13 - 10:49 AM

There's agood article here: http://chrsouchon.free.fr/piper.htm
Aitkendrum, of course, is the old rhyme associated with the sng, slightly different tune and words with no similarity but the structure is very similar.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Pipie o Dundee
From: Gavin Paterson
Date: 24 Jan 16 - 12:47 PM

If I'm reading this correctly, The Piper initially is a hero; spreading Jacobite sentiment and rallying the troops with his playing. But then he changes sides and becomes 'a rougey'.

But the first verse has him playing a dance tune to please the Laird. So where does the laird-pleasing activities come in the time line?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Pipie o Dundee
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 25 Jan 16 - 10:21 AM

Surely the word should be 'roguey': a 'rougey' would be a man who wore rouge [as George V was said to have done at his Silver Jubilee celebrations; but that is a drift]. And I have never taken it to have the pejorative overtones of being a turncoat suggested in the last post by Jorrox, as this does not to my mind have the feel of that sort of song -- tho now such an interpretation has been suggested, I am turning such a putative meaning over in my mind. But I have always thought of 'roguey' as implying that he was a sort of merry devil, intent on involving everybody in a merry occasion.

≈M≈


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Pipie o Dundee
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 25 Jan 16 - 10:23 AM

...after all, he played with "muckle mirth and glee"!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Pipie o Dundee
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 25 Jan 16 - 03:00 PM

I have checked this on DT, where it appears under P -- title "Piper Of Dundee". This admittedly gives "rougey"; but if you click on "Play" and the stave with the words comes up, it is correctly rendered as "roguey". The latter, as I point out above, must obviously be the semantically correct spelling, and 'rougey' a typo: he was a rogue; he didn't wear rouge!

Don't expect anyone will ever get round to emending it on DT, though: heigh-ho! woe·&·alas!

≈M≈


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Pipie o Dundee
From: Gavin Paterson
Date: 25 Jan 16 - 03:25 PM

Fair play Mr Lion. So was the switching sides that made a rogue out of him?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Pipie o Dundee
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 25 Jan 16 - 03:56 PM

Fair question. I'm not sure he 'switched sides' precisely, looking more analytically than I have done before [having learnt this song at school at age 9, & carried it about as a bit of mental furniture ever since, has rather militated against my analysing all its implications]. Rather, he softened up the listeners by playing 'bonnielie', with the sort of 'spring' which would please the laird, but then

"gae his bags a wheeze
And played anither key"

and launched into some specifically Jacobite repertoire.

Hmmm. Still can't feel 'roguey' that pejorative a designation; feels to me as one might say, "Cor, wasn't he a one!": but must mull over the political implications a bit more.

≈M≈


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Pipie o Dundee
From: Lighter
Date: 25 Jan 16 - 06:09 PM

I suspect he was a "roguey" because he was slyly drumming up Jacobite sentiment.

The OED has "rogue" in the sense of "A mischievous person, esp. a child; a person whose behaviour one disapproves of but who is nonetheless likeable or attractive. Freq. as a playful term of reproof or reproach or as a term of endearment" from so long ago as 1593.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Pipie o Dundee
From: Gavin Paterson
Date: 26 Jan 16 - 01:09 PM

I only knew this from hearing guys like The Alexander Brothers doing it when I was wee. I didn't know it had Jacobite connotations until I read the notes for MacColls 'Songs Of Two Rebellions'.

And without wanting to drag this on forever, the Piper played for the Laird as a duty. But when he 'played another key' he was playing for the rebels. And that's what made him a bit of a lad, a rogue, a roguey. Yeah?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Pipie o Dundee
From: Lighter
Date: 26 Jan 16 - 06:22 PM

Maybe. But maybe he just switched keys.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Pipie o Dundee
From: GUEST,Tam
Date: 15 Sep 16 - 06:50 PM

Fascinating!
I thought it was just a song and gave no thought to a background! Was going through my head for no apparent reason, wasn't sure of the words ,Macgoogled, and there is all this!
Thankyou, learned scholars all.
Tam


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