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The Drunken Sailor - BBC Radio 2

Rain Dog 18 Jan 13 - 02:30 AM
Bat Goddess 18 Jan 13 - 04:12 PM
GUEST,henryp 18 Jan 13 - 04:24 PM
Bat Goddess 18 Jan 13 - 04:53 PM
GUEST,henryp 18 Jan 13 - 04:58 PM
GUEST,Dani 19 Jan 13 - 08:59 AM
Elmore 19 Jan 13 - 01:54 PM
My guru always said 20 Jan 13 - 04:02 AM
SPB-Cooperator 20 Jan 13 - 08:22 AM
Uncle Tone 22 Jan 13 - 07:39 AM
bradfordian 22 Jan 13 - 04:58 PM
vectis 22 Jan 13 - 05:25 PM
SussexCarole 22 Jan 13 - 06:39 PM
Uncle Tone 23 Jan 13 - 05:11 AM
RWJ 23 Jan 13 - 05:36 AM
SPB-Cooperator 23 Jan 13 - 06:42 AM
Andy Jackson 23 Jan 13 - 08:49 AM
Ross Campbell 23 Jan 13 - 10:42 AM
GUEST 23 Jan 13 - 11:42 AM
The Sandman 23 Jan 13 - 12:56 PM
Bat Goddess 23 Jan 13 - 01:02 PM
The Sandman 23 Jan 13 - 01:19 PM
Ross Campbell 23 Jan 13 - 06:04 PM
Gibb Sahib 23 Jan 13 - 07:54 PM
C Stuart Cook 24 Jan 13 - 09:48 AM
C Stuart Cook 24 Jan 13 - 09:57 AM
doc.tom 24 Jan 13 - 10:11 AM
GUEST,John 24 Jan 13 - 10:46 AM
Dave the Gnome 24 Jan 13 - 11:27 AM
The Sandman 24 Jan 13 - 12:05 PM
stallion 25 Jan 13 - 11:17 AM
GUEST,Big Al Whittle 25 Jan 13 - 12:35 PM
Dead Horse 26 Jan 13 - 05:12 AM
doc.tom 26 Jan 13 - 06:22 AM
Charley Noble 26 Jan 13 - 08:37 PM
GUEST 27 Jan 13 - 07:23 AM
Bat Goddess 27 Jan 13 - 08:42 AM
GUEST,brooko 17 Feb 13 - 02:34 PM
McGrath of Harlow 17 Feb 13 - 07:08 PM
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Subject: The Drunken Sailor - BBC Radio 2
From: Rain Dog
Date: 18 Jan 13 - 02:30 AM

Don't think that this has been mentioned before. Should be available on the BBC iplayer for at least a week after broadcast

The Drunken Sailor - BBC Radio 2 Tuesday 22nd Jan 22.00

Richard Hawley explores the rich and fascinating tradition of the shanty, a very specific type of folk song that's connected with - but not necessarily about - the sea.

A work song, the shanty has a purpose and a rhythmic structure designed to help mariners carry out their work more easily and divert them from the sheer slog of hauling on ropes to raise sails, pushing capstans round to lift anchors, and manning pumps to empty the bilges.

The heyday of the shanty was around 1840 to 1880, when the Seven Seas were filled with the great full-rigged ships, the barques, the clippers, the windjammers, plying their trade to all points of the compass. It was a century of expanding imperialism, when the Royal Navy did rule the waves and its power and prestige enforced a peace often referred to as Pax Britannica.

The Royal Navy frowned on Jack Tars singing as they worked, however, and it was the merchant sailors who developed the sea song, often known as a forebitter; and the shanty; drawing on all manner of songs to create their own body of work. Minstrel songs, music hall tunes, slave melodies, traditional folk ballads, all were thrown into the seamen's repertoire.

By the end of the 19th century, as wood and sail gave way to iron and steam, the shanty was starting to disappear as sailors no longer needed songs to do their work, and the collectors began to get to work instead. Laura Alexandrine Smith, Richard Runciman Terry, Cecil Sharpe, and later Stan Hugill, published printed editions of what were once orally disseminated songs and recordings were made of the fast disappearing voices of the sea.

Contributors include multiple Radio 2 Folk Award winner Martin Carthy; Steeleye Span lead vocalist Maddy Prior; Shanty Jack; Chris Roche of the Shanty Crew; Pete Wood and Jim Mageean of the Keelers; shanty duo Derek & Julia Batters; Eric Ruff from the Novia Scotian group the Yarmouth Shantymen; Peter van der Meuwe from the National Maritime Museum; and shanty expert Bernie Davis.

The Drunken Sailor


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Subject: RE: The Drunken Sailor - BBC Radio 2
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 18 Jan 13 - 04:12 PM

And our own Barry Finn.

Tom and I got a call from the producer (who wrote the script, too) on Sunday -- he was looking for Barry Finn, actually. Specifically Finn & Haddie's recording of "Good Old Brig". Evidently Barry and Neal are the only singers to have recorded it.

Over the course of the next couple days, we (me, Justine and Steve Smith) managed to get the digital file to the BBC.

From Neil Rosser (producer/director) -- "Yes it's a one hour documentary ... for BBC Radio 2, going out at 10 pm on Tuesday (22nd) ... called 'The Drunken Sailor' ... all about sea shanties ... and it will be on the internet at Radio 2 on the BBC site... bbc.co.uk "

10 PM in England would be 5 PM US EST. I'm not sure if we can listen online in real time, but I'm pretty sure the program will be archived there.

Linn


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Subject: RE: The Drunken Sailor - BBC Radio 2
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 18 Jan 13 - 04:24 PM

Oh dear - here we go!

What does Richard Hawley know about sea-shanties?


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Subject: RE: The Drunken Sailor - BBC Radio 2
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 18 Jan 13 - 04:53 PM

BBC chose the presenter. Neil Rosser wrote the script.

Linn


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Subject: RE: The Drunken Sailor - BBC Radio 2
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 18 Jan 13 - 04:58 PM

Well, he certainly seems to have recruited a knowledgeable crew.


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Subject: RE: The Drunken Sailor - BBC Radio 2
From: GUEST,Dani
Date: 19 Jan 13 - 08:59 AM

Very cool!

Looking forward to it.

Dani


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Subject: RE: The Drunken Sailor - BBC Radio 2
From: Elmore
Date: 19 Jan 13 - 01:54 PM

Thanks for the heads up.


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Subject: RE: The Drunken Sailor - BBC Radio 2
From: My guru always said
Date: 20 Jan 13 - 04:02 AM

Many thanks for this, I'll be setting my calendar to remind me to listen to this!! Sounds like it could be an excellent programme!


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Subject: RE: The Drunken Sailor - BBC Radio 2
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 20 Jan 13 - 08:22 AM

Will it be on Iplayer after? I don't think I can home in time from work?


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Subject: Shanties
From: Uncle Tone
Date: 22 Jan 13 - 07:39 AM

The Drunken Sailor   Shanties 10pm BBC Radio 2 tonight Tuesday 22nd Jan.

Tone


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Subject: RE: The Drunken Sailor - BBC Radio 2
From: bradfordian
Date: 22 Jan 13 - 04:58 PM

About to start now


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Subject: RE: The Drunken Sailor - BBC Radio 2
From: vectis
Date: 22 Jan 13 - 05:25 PM

Excellent so far


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Subject: RE: The Drunken Sailor - BBC Radio 2
From: SussexCarole
Date: 22 Jan 13 - 06:39 PM

We both really enjoyed the programme. Well done BBC and to all who contributed. Was really special to hear Barry Finn again.


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Subject: RE: The Drunken Sailor - BBC Radio 2
From: Uncle Tone
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 05:11 AM

Yes, an interesting look at work songs on water.

It can still be heard in UK on BBC iPlayer:

The Drunken Sailor

As they mostly 'sampled' tracks, I wish they had given a playlist on their 'more programme info'.

Tone


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Subject: RE: The Drunken Sailor - BBC Radio 2
From: RWJ
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 05:36 AM

Well put together, enjoyed it. It makes a change to find something like this on the BBC


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Subject: RE: The Drunken Sailor - BBC Radio 2
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 06:42 AM

I was surprised when I heard "yours truly's" less than dulcet tones broadcast on one of the songs + on I think the choruses of three other shanties.


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Subject: RE: The Drunken Sailor - BBC Radio 2
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 08:49 AM

A good mix of what I want to hear and something for the general casual listener.
A big subject to cover and maintain interest, achieved here by a good mix of intesting old material and a more modern approach to the shanty.
Nice to hear a few new voices amidst the usual BBC favorites.


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Subject: RE: The Drunken Sailor - BBC Radio 2
From: Ross Campbell
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 10:42 AM

Comes up with the message "You need to upgrade Flash to version 10.2.0 or higher to play The Drunken Sailor."

Why do I need Flash to listen to a radio programme?


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Subject: RE: The Drunken Sailor - BBC Radio 2
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 11:42 AM

Why do I need Flash to listen to a radio programme?

Because iPlayer uses Flash. Duuuur...

Read this (from here):

iPlayer (Flash)
a format of streaming exposed in the iPlayer web interface - these are RTMP delivered aacFamily codecs. These can be experienced in iPlayer, though some personal computers and other devices can play these back natively.


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Subject: RE: The Drunken Sailor - BBC Radio 2
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 12:56 PM

very enjoyable, some of those on the programme chris roche , jim mageaan, tom and barbara brown are all appearing at The Fastnet Maritime and Folk Festival june 14 15 16 2013.


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Subject: RE: The Drunken Sailor - BBC Radio 2
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 01:02 PM

Merde! I CAN'T upgrade my Flash -- the newest rev does not support my (not THAT old!) computer/processor.

Linn


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Subject: RE: The Drunken Sailor - BBC Radio 2
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 01:19 PM

fastnet maritime and folk festival, ballydehob june 14 15 16 2013.guests include;
Jimmy Crowley
Matt Cranitch and Jackie Daly
Andy Kenna
Andrew McKay and Carole Etherton
The Shanty Crew
Dick Miles
Jim Mageean
Baggyrinkle Shantymen
Capstan Full Strength
Tom and Barbara Brown
Tony and Pearl O'Neill
Michelle Reynolds
Cork Singers' Club
Free Spirit
Verna Connolly
Rattlesnake County
Carmen Cullen
Devil's Water
Jim Bainbridge
French dancers with Marie-Laure Haas


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Subject: RE: The Drunken Sailor - BBC Radio 2
From: Ross Campbell
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 06:04 PM

Linn - I'm in the same position. My G4 Apple running the latest possible OS (10.5.8) is incompatible with the "latest" version of Flash, which will only run on Intel architecture. Looks like I'll have to find an Intel Mac Mini to make things work. Not keen to give up my laptop though.


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Subject: RE: The Drunken Sailor - BBC Radio 2
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 07:54 PM

I recognized a paraphrase from something I had written, and thought, hmmm...then realized I had put more or less the same thing in the article on Wikipedia:

The fact that Euro-American observers found African work-singers so remarkable (as can be gleaned from the tone of their descriptions) suggests that work songs were indeed rather foreign to their culture. Such references begin to appear in the late 18th century, whence one can see the cliché develop that Black Africans "could not" work without singing. For example, an observer in Martinique in 1806 wrote, "The negroes have a different air and words for every kind of labour; sometimes they sing, and their motions, even while cultivating the ground, keep time to the music." So while the depth of the African-American work song traditions is now recognized, in the early 19th century they stood in stark contrast to the paucity of such traditions among Euro-Americans.

Use of this idea, however, seems a bit incongruous with another part of the programme saying chanties were there in Ancient Greece, etc etc.

I might note also, among many other things, that the part about Northeast England's L.A. Smith being a great collector and the dramatic quote from her _THE Music of the Waters_ felt "off". The passage was just Smith plagiarizing from two American periodicals (The Atlantic Monthly, 1858, and Harper's, 1882). It made it seem like she had been through this amazing experience on a ship when in reality she collected no more than 14 of the chanties (out of a total of 50+) in Sailor Homes in the Northeast. This certainly is not obvious, nonetheless the way Smith was used as a sort of character of an intrepid British song collector felt silly.


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Subject: RE: The Drunken Sailor - BBC Radio 2
From: C Stuart Cook
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 09:48 AM

Oh dear. Rolling Down to Old Maui - a whaling forebitter?

Surely Stan Rogers wrote it for himself as he was fed up of not having one of his own songs suitable at maritime singarounds?


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Subject: RE: The Drunken Sailor - BBC Radio 2
From: C Stuart Cook
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 09:57 AM

Then again maybe I'm thinking of Barret's Privateers?


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Subject: RE: The Drunken Sailor - BBC Radio 2
From: doc.tom
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 10:11 AM

Maybe you are!


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Subject: RE: The Drunken Sailor - BBC Radio 2
From: GUEST,John
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 10:46 AM

What no 'Bellowhead'!!


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Subject: RE: The Drunken Sailor - BBC Radio 2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 11:27 AM

There was plenty of 'em, John:-) Just listened to it and it was a very enjoyable hour. Mind you - good job I was working from home as I am not sure my colleagues would appreciate it...

Cheers

DtG


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Subject: RE: The Drunken Sailor - BBC Radio 2
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 12:05 PM

i thought chris roche and jim mageaan , did some.good explaining.
I enjoyed the programme


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Subject: RE: The Drunken Sailor - BBC Radio 2
From: stallion
Date: 25 Jan 13 - 11:17 AM

I listened, weird when you know most of the people! I am really pleased that Barry got some recognition, a tad late in my mind, such a pity he left us so early and before he could do a proper tour of the UK.


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Subject: RE: The Drunken Sailor - BBC Radio 2
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 Jan 13 - 12:35 PM

The actual truth is of course more mundane.

Horatio Nelson was only five foot tall. Then they put him in a barrel of rum when he was shot. Anyway they got him out and he looked a bit shrivelled, and where to bury him......thus the song got written.

What shall we do with the shrunken sailor?

In time traditional folksingers got hold of the song, totally misheard the words - but there a lot of them. So their completely wrong version prevailed.

I bet I'm the only one who knows that, and I figured it all out myself.


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Subject: RE: The Drunken Sailor - BBC Radio 2
From: Dead Horse
Date: 26 Jan 13 - 05:12 AM

I am SO nicking that explanation next time I do that song. :-)


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Subject: RE: The Drunken Sailor - BBC Radio 2
From: doc.tom
Date: 26 Jan 13 - 06:22 AM

Absolutely - but make it brandy!


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Subject: RE: The Drunken Sailor - BBC Radio 2
From: Charley Noble
Date: 26 Jan 13 - 08:37 PM

The program works well on Judy's PC but is inaccessible on my MAC. It's nice to hear Barry Finn singing "Good Ol' Brig."

This is definitely one of the best sea music programs I've heard in years.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: The Drunken Sailor - BBC Radio 2
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jan 13 - 07:23 AM

Arti
An xcellent programme,Liverpool had nothing to do ith it.Thought
not.I often wonder why it is so often mentioned in Shanties ???

Arti.


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Subject: RE: The Drunken Sailor - BBC Radio 2
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 27 Jan 13 - 08:42 AM

I listened to the show during my drive home from The Press Room Friday night -- a friend put it on a CD for me. (I've got the same older Mac problem -- but I can get a copy for you, too, Charley.)

I enjoyed the show a lot and will give Curmudgeon a chance to listen to it soon. I still need to listen to the rest of it -- I pulled up to the house just after Bellowhead's contribution, but I've got a log/transcription so I know what's still to be heard.

Well done show -- though aimed at the general public rather than us trad practitioners, it was informative in an engaging way and didn't talk down to the listeners. Though my preference is more purist and historical, the show was well-rounded and inclusive of modern stylings.

Linn


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Subject: RE: The Drunken Sailor - BBC Radio 2
From: GUEST,brooko
Date: 17 Feb 13 - 02:34 PM

does any one know where i can get a version of fire down below,that was played on this programme


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Subject: RE: The Drunken Sailor - BBC Radio 2
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Feb 13 - 07:08 PM

Richard Hawley explores the rich and fascinating tradition of the shanty

What does Richard Hawley know about sea-shanties?


If you're exploring something you really ought not to know too much about it in advance. Otherwise it's not exploring, it's expounding.


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