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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: GUEST,seth in Olympia Date: 07 Apr 10 - 08:22 AM I grew up on Cleveland locally produced gospel on the radio.Even though my family was white and catholic, the RC stuff didn't come close to Clara Ward and Marion Williams. Later(much later) I joined a Unitarian Church, but part of what I wanted from a church experience was some music that moved me and the U.U.'s have the right string but the wrong yo-yo in that area. Sometimes I go to black churches for the music. I've decided that I'm a believer until the song is over and then I'm an atheist... |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Stringsinger Date: 07 Apr 10 - 03:45 PM Psychiatry as a religion? I don't think so. The view of it being a recent science is valid but a religion would require articles of faith which is not represented in psychiatric scientific circles. That argument would assume that Evolution was a religion and not a scientific fact. Buddhism and Confucianism are religions, no gods notwithstanding. They are a systemized view of philosophy that is not scientifically based. They are systems of "faith". Psychiatry or psychology is not predicated on a systemic faith. They are "established" in the scientific community and the government today would be advised to adhere to mental health that is prescribed by this new science. |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Paul Burke Date: 07 Apr 10 - 04:13 PM Buddhism is philosophy, if that's how you take it. It's religion of the most bell ringing, incense burning, heretic killing type too, if that's how you take it. Most Western Buddhists are of the former type, but it seems that in its homeland, Thailand, Sri Lanka, Burma, the latter type predominates overwhelmingly. I wrote an atheist Christmas carol a few years ago; it wasn't very good. |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Stringsinger Date: 07 Apr 10 - 05:54 PM Paul, I like it! The King as Warlord says it all. It's not OTT for me. |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Desert Dancer Date: 08 Sep 10 - 02:00 PM It's clear that Steve Martin did not do his Mudcat research, as he should have: Steve Martin, at Merlefest 2010 ~ Becky in Tucson Album version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VptspP8auFM |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: dick greenhaus Date: 08 Sep 10 - 02:32 PM Joe- It used to be said that Ethical Culture was a church for Jewish atheists; Unitarianism was one for Christian atheists. There's always "Confusing Grace, so rich, so rare Each Day we live, we learn. And daily offer up our prayer To Whom it May Concern." |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Bill D Date: 08 Sep 10 - 07:58 PM There used to be a tongue-in-cheek list of "Unitarian hymns", such as "We Would Rather Not Be Moved" (from Utah Phillips, I think) |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Kent Davis Date: 09 Sep 10 - 10:19 PM Amazing Chance Amazing chance, how sweet the sound, That evolved a being like me! I know you're lost, Though you think you're found. You're blind, but I can see! 'Twas chance that taught your heart to fear, But chance my fears relieved. How precious did that chance appear, The hour I disbelieved. Kent, who is puzzled to find himself contributing to the atheist hymnal |
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Subject: ADD: Atheists Don't Have No Songs From: Joe Offer Date: 10 Sep 10 - 12:00 AM That Steve Martin song is a kick, Becky. Lyrics (and another video) are available at a Website called Inner Light, Radiant Life. ATHEISTS DON'T HAVE NO SONGS (as performed by Steve Martin - songwriter known) Christians have their hymns in pages. Hava Nagila's for the Jews. Baptists have the Rock of Ages. Atheists just sing the Blues. Romantics play Claire de Lune. Born-agains sing He is Risen. But no one ever wrote a tune for godless Existentialism. For Atheists there's no Good News; They'll never sing a song of Faith. In their songs they have a rule: the "he" is always lower case. Some folks sing a Bach cantata. Lutherans get Christmas trees. Atheist songs add up to nada. But they do have Sundays free. Pentecostals sing, sing to heaven. Coptics have the book of scrolls. Numerologists count to seven. Atheists have rock and roll. For Atheists there's no Good News; They'll never sing a song of Faith. In their songs they have a rule: the "he" is always lower case. Atheists don't have no songs. Christians have their hymns in pages. Hava Nagila's for the Jews. Baptists have the Rock of Ages. Atheists just sing the Blues. Catholics dress up for mass and listen to Gregorian chants. Atheists just take a pass, watch football in their underpants. Atheists don't have no songs. I dunno about your theory, Dick. I know a lot of Jewish Unitarians - lots of Catholic ones, too. I suppose you're right that the mix is higher on Jews in the ethical societies. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: GUEST,sesquipedalian101 Date: 19 Oct 10 - 02:33 PM How about "Oh, What a Beautiful Morning" (for, obviously, a pre-noon wedding)? |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Dan Schatz Date: 19 Oct 10 - 02:42 PM My new CD and book, The Song and the Sigh, contains 17 songs of hope, meaning and community - songs that I consider "spiritual" - and never mentions the word God. Same with the reflections in the hardcover book that comes with it. I have long held that the question of a deity's existence is secondary to the questions of how we live as human beings. Some of the songs, like "Daylight Song," really do fit the hymn genre. Dan |
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Subject: The Atheist's Hymnal From: michaelr Date: 29 Dec 10 - 06:50 PM Steve Martin and band |
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Subject: RE: The Atheist's Hymnal From: Desert Dancer Date: 29 Dec 10 - 08:29 PM previously posted here a couple of times... Atheist Hymns, and here. Still funny, though. ~ Becky in Long Beach |
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Subject: RE: The Atheist's Hymnal From: michaelr Date: 29 Dec 10 - 10:32 PM Sorry - new to me. |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Desert Dancer Date: 10 Apr 11 - 12:21 PM Another Godless 'hymns' or Atheism Church Music? thread, chronologically sandwiched by this one. ~ Becky in Long Beach |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Stringsinger Date: 10 Apr 11 - 12:35 PM Atheist hymns are oxymoronic. There are many love songs that express honest passion and commitment that can be used in lieu of religious platitudinous hymns. I think that hymns can be taken as musical expressions in and of themselves without having to refer to deities, rituals, and all the religious trappings that go with them. Many of them are beautiful and my preference is for the African-American ones. I think that the notion of interjecting religious aspects into a wedding service is really a red-herring and are really irrelevant to the ceremony. If a hymn fits, why not use it for its appropriateness to the vows of the couple being married? If not, who needs it. |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Stringsinger Date: 10 Apr 11 - 01:03 PM I see that there are these two threads can be condensed into one. I was confused by the two so responded to each individually and as a result may have repeated myself. I apologize. |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Joe_F Date: 10 Apr 11 - 05:40 PM I suppose Christians at War counts more as blasphemous than atheistic. |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray Date: 10 Apr 11 - 05:54 PM My Atheism doesn't preclude a fascination with religion, hymns included, likewise other sacred music, which I love to sing & listen to. In Catholic Mass at Easter I can't sing many of the hymns for crying though. It's all human in the end! |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Vic Smith Date: 11 Apr 11 - 03:39 AM Dolly Collins and Maureen Duffy wrote a humanist mass called Missa Humana over twenty years ago now. I had the honour of making a digital transcription of Dolly's lovely carefully written music. In my opinion, it is a major work of music with strong influences from the tradition. I consider it a disgrace that it has never been performed. |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Stringsinger Date: 11 Apr 11 - 11:25 AM I think there is a difference between a song say "This Little Light of Mine" and "Onward Christian Soldiers". Also, indisputably, Bach's B Minor Mass is one of the great musical works of all time. The notion of an atheist hymn makes no sense, however, but the point of view of atheism can be reflected in a choice of songs religious and secular. I think it's possible to rewrite some of the old hymns to make them secular. In a sense, that's what happened in the Civil Rights Movement. "Woke up this morning with my mind on Jesus" became "Woke up this morning with my mind on freedom". |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Artful Codger Date: 11 Apr 11 - 08:32 PM There tends to be a particular "sound" to hymns, so it makes great sense to talk of hymns in the sense of musical genre, apart from any theistic orientation. Sure, there's musical cross-over with non-theistic songs (from which hymn writers lifted heavily), but in contrast to hymns, the secular counterparts tend to be story-type songs of murder, betrayal, licentiousness, courtship, coercion...--not quite the same thing. I think the request for "atheist hymns" refers to uplifting, inspiring or gospelesque songs with a similar sound but without the theistic baggage--that great leap from "isn't this amazing?" or "let's create a better world" to "we must be the undeserving pawns of a loving but strangely violent deity who demonstrates his love by testing our faith in ways that would give the Marquis de Sade a wet dream, according to some perfect and perfectly inscrutable plan--and if you can't accept this, may you burn in torment forever while we sit around with harps, eat bonbons and remind god what a ripping chap he is." |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Desert Dancer Date: 09 May 11 - 03:12 PM More pop than hymns (consider his audience), but, topically, it seems to fit in this thread, rather than really needing its own: Phil Zuckerman's 65 Greatest Songs for Atheists and Agnostics. Phil Zuckerman is a professor of sociology at Pitzer College in Claremont, California, and has just succesfully worked to add a new major in "Secular Studies" there. Of this list of songs, he says "Strictly speaking, any song that doesn't mention God or gods is an a-theist song. That said, it is still fun to listen to songs that specifically debunk religion, critique faith, express healthy skepticism, laud doubt, celebrate the natural world, advocate humanist principles, uphold reason, declare love, or in one way or another offer a secular orientation that is moral, libratory, valuable, joyous, and vibrant. "The songs compiled here offer a variety of irreligious, agnostic, secular, naturalistic, or atheist opinions and perspectives, representing a wide continuum: from the harshly damning to the sublimely happy, from literal debunking to mild innuendo. Some of the songs attack Biblical theology head-on, others merely express a natural love of life. Some express a hearty secular sexuality, others comedic blasphemy. Some express defiance, others transcendental acceptance. Some provide existential wonder at the mystery of being, others a sober frankness concerning the brutal facts of life and death. In some songs, critiquing religion is the heart of each verse and chorus, while in others it is merely the soul of a single line or phrase. In some cases, the title of the song alone warranted inclusion. For some songwriters, merely negating religious dogma is the theme, but for others, expressing a respect for human dignity or a deep love of daily life predominates." Any candidates for the hymnbook here? ~ Becky in Long Beach |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Richard from Liverpool Date: 09 May 11 - 04:11 PM Has Phil Zuckerman listened to all of these songs - or looked up the artists and their intentions? I'm not sure some of them can really be considered atheist at all. |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Joe_F Date: 09 May 11 - 06:30 PM Evolutionary Hymn |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Desert Dancer Date: 09 May 11 - 06:48 PM Hmm. The provenance of that last (doubly), to say nothing of its content, puts it on questionable ground. |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Stringsinger Date: 14 Aug 11 - 10:45 AM "It may not be a religion...however certain people have taken it to that extreme, and turned atheism into an organised religion....you do realise there are churches where atheists go and congregate, right?" Amergin, this is not true. There are no churches that atheists go to (except perhaps as underground because they like the ritual), there are no atheist churches. Atheism is not, I repeat, an organized religion no matter how much you jump up and down and say it is. That's religious propaganda. Songs for weddings from a Secular Humanist or Freethought perspective are yet to be written. I've written one and there will be others. |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Musket Date: 14 Aug 11 - 10:59 AM When I got married in a hotel the other year, the registry office people were quite strict on the principle that there were to be no religious overtones to the event, no hymns sung etc. So, as we were signing the register, the congregation listened to the following over the speakers; Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds - Into my Arms. Sterephonics & Jools Holland - First Time Ever I Saw Your Face. I couldn't think of better songs at the time (although there were many on the shortlist...) that could suit the wedding. I suppose atheist hymns are an oxymoron, although I don't like putting atheist on forms when asked, (I usually put other and then say not applicable.) For me, atheism is portrayed by many as a belief system in itself. The belief that there is nothing. Einstein had a problem with that because he said that atheism ultimately is the belief in chaos and as we experience the laws of physics working, then whatever the answer is, it certainly isn't chaos. If people use the term atheist and then put labels to it, then I would have to say the term no longer describes me and irreligious is a better term. (I joined the church of the flying spaghetti monster the other year, but so did a few colleagues and our childish aim was to make the government body we work for state it in the staff statistics page in the annual report. We pastafarians get about you know! |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Richard from Liverpool Date: 14 Aug 11 - 11:11 AM Surely "Into My Arms" is a song with deeply religious overtones (from a writer who's quite famous for religious thought, writing an introduction to the Gospel of Mark, etc.) I'm surprised they let you get away with that one! "To make bright and clear your path And to walk, like Christ, in grace and love And guide you into my arms" |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Big Ballad Singer Date: 14 Aug 11 - 12:44 PM How about "Nowhere Man"? "She's Not There" by the Zombies? Seriously, though... there are a LOT of beautiful songs that are not religious hymns (many have already been suggested), and there are a LOT of hymns that don't have to be taken at their prima facie level as theistic. We, being human, are free not only to create, but to interpret. It's the insistence of one person or group that DEFINITION (of words or ideas) be concrete that makes for war, especially jihad, no matter whose jihad it might be. I am always encouraged when people are able to gather inspiration or find beauty in the artistic expressions of others without believing that they must ABSOLUTELY accept or COMPLETELY reject the worldview behind said expressions. |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Neil D Date: 19 Nov 15 - 02:03 PM FREEDOM by Neil Devore The savage knows that Holy Joes And emperors who wear new clothes Never were the ones he chose To teach him how to live And heaven's just a siren's song Enticing you to go along And certainly the pull is strong Of the solace it can give But when you teach them to beseech A man upstairs they cannot reach The baleful sermon that you preach Is empty and unfair As long ago the Lizard King Raised his voice to shout and sing You cannot go petitioning Your mythic lord with prayer And we were never born to be remorseful Or contrite about some vague primal sin You need only strive to do no harm to what's alive To be in touch with the light that shines within You'll be aglow from the light that shines within Any other rules are just too forceful A crooked game that we can never win You must merely care for one another And the bountiful world upon which we spin The beautiful world upon which we spin When the scales drop from your eyes And fall beneath the bridge of sighs With no one there to hear your cries You're beginning to breathe free With no one there to criticize To damn your eyes or demonize You'll begin to realize The way we're meant to be Sweet music on a summer night Seductive scent that wafts just right A subtle hint of pledged delight To set one's heart aflame A stolen glance, a merry dance So come young lovers grab your chance At dizzying new found romance Without a sense of shame For we were never born to be remorseful Or contrite about some vague primal sin You need only strive to do no harm to what's alive To be in touch with the light that shines within You'll be aglow from the light that shines within Any other rules are just too forceful A crooked game that we can never win You must merely care for one another And the bountiful world upon which we spin The beautiful world upon which we spin So excuse me my apostasy My rejection of theocracy What need we of philosophy To share some food and drink Like hand in glove are peace and love With no assistance from above These are thoughts worth thinking of When you take the time to think When it's said and done, your race has run I hope you'll know you had your fun Golden days spent in the sun With a sparsity of strife Good friends relaxing on the grass A touch of class, a parting glass Nostalgic that this too must pass Like all good things in life And we were never born to be remorseful Or contrite about some vague primal sin You need only strive to do no harm to what's alive To be in touch with the light that shines within You'll be aglow from the light that shines within Any other rules are just too forceful A crooked game that we can never win You must merely care for one another And the bountiful world upon which we spin The beautiful world upon which we spin |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: GUEST Date: 20 Nov 15 - 02:53 AM It's alright proposing hymns for atheists but what about the vast majority of people who don't have any stance on superstition and for whom religion and atheism would be two sides of the same coin? Atheism means rejecting theism. Most people reject coins from parking meters. For my wedding, whilst we were signing, our guests had my friend sing Into my Arms and First Time Ever I Saw Your Face. |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Steve Shaw Date: 20 Nov 15 - 04:41 AM I rather like the idea that we atheists can also have hymns. I think the sentiments expressed in this one are inspiring and excellent! |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: GUEST,Peter from seven stars link Date: 20 Nov 15 - 06:43 AM And why not , most other religions probably have hymns too.... |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Steve Shaw Date: 20 Nov 15 - 07:54 AM Twit. Don't even think of trying to spoil this thread. |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Steve Shaw Date: 20 Nov 15 - 08:41 AM Joseph Kerman, one of the very finest writers on classical music (he died last year), in his book The Beethoven Quartets, persistently refers to the Adagio ma non troppo e semplice variation in the slow movement of the Quartet in C sharp minor as "the hymn variation." Well, there are no words, of course, but the passage is certainly a moment of stillness and reflection at the heart of the quartet, with a simple metre and much moving up and down the scale. Very much like a hymn, in other words. I didn't mind at all his nicking of the word from religion for that context. Try it and see! |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Mr Happy Date: 20 Nov 15 - 11:55 AM The last few funerals I've attended have been of a secular nature & had the mourners join appropriately in songs such as 'Always look on the bright side of life', 'Across the universe' & 'Thank you for the days' |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Paul Burke Date: 20 Nov 15 - 12:24 PM Perhaps the main reason that there aren't many atheist hymns is that we aren't an organised belief system, and most of us never talk to other atheists as such, just as people. Atheism is a private matter. And we think those with other belief systems should have the common decency to keep quiet about theirs too, and not organise to pass laws and engineer social situations that impose their values on others. BBC's Thought For The Day is one example, the laws about religious education and the promotion of faith schools another. They might just be starting to regret that last one. A friend died a few years ago having asked her children to give her a humanist funeral. It was embarrassing, the children had left it to the undertakers to organise it. They were clueless. A woman dressed in a short skirt and tights (black), a sort of red hunting jacket, and a top hat, assured us all that our friend was now happy and looking down on us, forgivingly. She then recited the (apparently non- religious) Lord's Prayer, complete with the kingdom, power and glory. The irony was that our atheist friend had been a Catholic when previously religious, and they don't do that bit. Neil D - more of that sort of stuff please. |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Steve Shaw Date: 20 Nov 15 - 02:34 PM Well that's right. I suppose that as most hymns are either praising the Lord/God/the Virgin Mary (delete as applicable), or asking one or the other of them to do something for us (save us from our miserable, wretched selves or make some or all of us better in any way you care to choose), we heathens don't actually have anyone to sing hymns to for stuff of that sort. I suggest we keep this thread sweet; if you want to have a pot at religion (I always want to do that), try the Pope in America thread. I could use a lift over there! :-) |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: GUEST,Desi C Date: 21 Nov 15 - 04:49 AM Why on earth would youwant Hymns at an Atheist wedding!? Surely there's a massive amount of other good music to choose from. Oddly though as an Atheist myself I do have a few good Gospel songs I like to do purely because I like the tunes |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Jeri Date: 21 Nov 15 - 10:04 AM You realize you're answering a question asked 16 years ago, right? |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Steve Shaw Date: 21 Nov 15 - 12:19 PM Neil's song was posted two days ago, Jeri, and resurrected the thread. I honestly can't see an issue with that. Lots of old threads get resurrected. It's great. |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Neil D Date: 21 Nov 15 - 11:50 PM I realized when I posted this song here that it was an old thread that hadn't been open for 4 years. I had just written the song and thought "Hmm, that's kind of an atheist hymn. Didn't there used to be a thread like that on Mudcat?" So I went ahead and posted it. Didn't see the harm, Jeri. Thanks for the kind word Paul. Hope you've been well. |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Jeri Date: 22 Nov 15 - 12:17 AM Neil, I mentioned the age of the thread because Desi C didn't like the subject, and the person who started this thread is probably not here to see his complaint. |
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Subject: Lyr Add: POOR LITTLE ME (D Barker, C Strouse) From: Jim Dixon Date: 31 Mar 20 - 09:24 PM I copied and pasted these lyrics from the website of the Freedom from Religion Foundation. You can hear a performance by Dan Barker at YouTube: POOR LITTLE ME Words by Dan Barker, music by Charles Strouse, ©2012. The multitudes mumble mythologies without end, But me, I have trouble with "ologies" that pretend To show what can't be shown, To know what can't be known. Lutherans have liturgies. Calvinists have creeds. Muslims have their minarets. Catholics have their beads. Methodists have methods, holy truth to ascertain, But poor little me, I only have a brain. Bishops transubstantiate. Shintos ring their bells. Transcendentalists meditate. Wiccans weave their spells. Hindus chant a mantra when they can't relieve the pain, But poor little me, I only have a brain. So fearful of the nether land, believers band together. Unhappy with the weatherman, the Zunis wave a feather. They dance in circles to demand: "Great Spirit, send some rain!" But what do you do if you only have a brain? Quakers quake and Shakers shake. Jews eat kosher food. Rastafarians wear their hair in pious gratitude. They all boast of miracles that no one can explain, But poor little me, poor little me, I only have a brain. - - - - - Dan Barker is co-president of the Freedom from Religion Foundation and has written many songs and poems. Charles Strouse wrote the music for Annie, Bye Bye Birdie, and many other musicals. |
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Subject: Lyr Add: Atheists Don't Have No Songs From: cnd Date: 31 Mar 20 - 11:20 PM Reminds me of a great song by Steve Martin and the Steep Canyon Rangers. I've heard them do it live once or twice and it's just as good as this rendition which you can watch here. Admittedly probably not exactly what the searcher is looking for, but I like the song and it's funny, and I can't imagine too many other times to share it. ATHEISTS DON'T HAVE NO SONGS (Words: Steve Martin, Music: Graham Sharp & Woody Platt) Christians have their hymns and pages (hymns and pages) Hava Nagila's for the Jews (for the jews) Baptists have the rock of ages (rock of ages) Atheists just sing the blues (Romantics play) Romantics play Claire de Lune (Claire de Lune) Born agains sing He is risen. But no one ever wrote a tune (wrote a tune) For godless existentialism For atheists, there's no good news They'll never sing, a song of faith In their songs, they have a rule The "he" is always lowercase The "he" is always lowercase (Some folks sing) Some folks sing a Bach cantata (Bach cantata) Lutherans get Christmas trees Atheist songs add up to nada (Up to nada) But they do have Sundays free (have Sundays free) (Pentecostals sing) Pentecostals sing, they sing to heaven (sing to Heaven) Coptics had the books of scrolls (Numerologists count) Numerologists count, they count to seven (five, six, sever or count to seven [depending on version]) Atheists have rock and roll For atheists, there's no good news They'll never sing, a song of faith. In their songs, they have a rule The "he" is always lowercase The "he" is always lowercase Atheists ... Atheists ... Atheists Don't Have No songs! Christians have their hymns and pages (hymns and pages) Hava Nagila's for the Jews (for the Jews) Baptists have the rock of ages (rock of ages) Atheists just sing the blues Catholics, dress up for mass And listen to Gregorian chants Atheists just take a pass Watch football in their underpants Watch football in their underpants Atheists ... Atheists ... Atheists Don't Have No songs! (Don't have no SONGS)!! Album version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VptspP8auFM |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Mr Red Date: 01 Apr 20 - 02:45 AM Why has no-one specifically mentioned Lewis Bridal Song (Mairi's Wedding) No God-bothering in that song. |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: GUEST,Ray Date: 01 Apr 20 - 04:03 AM Anything by Ralph Vaughan Williams; editor of the English Hymnal of 1907 and a confirmed atheist? |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Steve Shaw Date: 01 Apr 20 - 05:52 AM He also wrote one of the nicest masses you'll ever hear. |
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Subject: RE: Atheist Hymns From: Steve Gardham Date: 03 Apr 20 - 05:59 AM I much prefer the term 'realist' and I use this if asked what my beliefs are. And of course I'll sing almost anything given the right circumstances. Churches, particularly big ones are great places to sing in, and very rarely do you get asked your beliefs which is fine by me. I visit places of worship fairly regularly just for sheer enjoyment and often put something in the pot. I've never been asked to leave because I'm not a club member and I'm thankful for that. Oh and old 100 is one of my faves! |
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