BS: Israel condemned by UN

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Feb 13 - 02:07 PM

Speaking objectively and with regard to nothing the posts themselves, that would indeed appear to be the case. Why, even constant waves of my magic wand appear to have little effect in the obviation of this phenomenon!

☤MtheFGM!☤

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Stringsinger
Date: 28 Feb 13 - 05:56 PM

So if Israel's actions are considered illegal by the UN, how is this not a condemnation? Who needs to get their facts straight for once?

Israel may have an election process but it is still a theocracy. Some would like
to make the US a Christian theocracy but so far haven't succeeded as they have in Israel making it a Jewish theocracy. Zionism comes from biblical references.
Many conservative Jewish rabbis in Israel are calling the shots.

The issue is religious difference between Zionist Judaism (hard core) and Islam (equally fundamentalist). Still, the Palestinians are an oppressed people.

The ridiculous argument over The Temple of the Mount exacerbates the problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Mar 13 - 02:56 AM

Jim, if MtheGM can see that your reversion to personal abuse is actually an admission of defeat, you may be sure that other objective observers will have noticed the same.

Stringsinger, you originally claimed that UN condemned Israel for this.
Now you say "Israel's actions are considered illegal by the UN"
They are not.
There has been no such international or UN criticism which is an acknowledgement that the weapons were destined for Hezbollah.

Jim's position on that is confusing.
He got cross when I said he denied it, and even crosser when I said he didn't!
What are you like Jim?

Much talk about rubbish.
There is a toxic waste dump in the Negev.
It has been there for 38 years.
There are some illegally built habitations nearby, but no-one was forced to move there and no-one is forced to stay there.
When they are removed no doubt Jim will bleat that it is a "war crime."

The 1982 war in Lebanon.
As you would expect for events over thirty years ago, no new facts have emerged, except for the ones that Jim made up.

The tunnels.
We know why Egypt poured shit into them, because the government has told us.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Mar 13 - 02:59 AM

"Speaking objectively...."
One goose-stepping foot-soldier is sufficient for the time being Mike. Taking on the officers who only emerge out of the dug-out when the fighting's all over would be a tad ambitious now, wouldn't it?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 01 Mar 13 - 03:09 AM

LoL, Jim...

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 01 Mar 13 - 03:10 AM

... & thanx 4 the commission!

MGM ~ Brigadier Commanding

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Mar 13 - 05:14 AM

Keith;
"MtheGM can see that your reversion.....
Mike is one of these still-in-the-closeters who only come out when somebody else has done the work and when it's safe for him to do so.
His opinion has just about the same weight as yours, only, unlike you, he knows when to keep his head down.
Keep up the good work, I'm sure you're appreciated somewhere.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 01 Mar 13 - 05:27 AM

I make no secret of my opinions or tendencies of any sort, Jim, even if I am not always repetitively proclaiming them. So I am somewhat exercised as what sort of 'closet' you consider me to be in, or in relation to what. Could you perhaps clarify?

Regards

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 01 Mar 13 - 05:34 AM

""You lot put up the anti-Israel view, and I raise no objections.
I reply with Israel's version, and you all throw your teddies out of your prams!""

You have raised nothing but objections!

No evidence!
No argument!

Just objections to the mountain of evidence presented, when you bothered to read, or to comment on it.

Just objections to the sources of that evidence, questioning their veracity and their motives and branding them antisemitic, even when they were Israelis themselves.

Just objections to our pointing out that Israel, as well as Hamas, bears some measure of responsibility for the enmity which is destroying Palestine.

Objections in fact to anthing that suggests that there are indeed two sides to the argument.

Then you call us bigots, and claim that you believe there are two sides to the argument, when twelve pages of your comments give the lie to that claim.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 01 Mar 13 - 05:50 AM

""There is a toxic waste dump in the Negev.
It has been there for 38 years.
There are some illegally built habitations nearby, but no-one was forced to move there and no-one is forced to stay there.
When they are removed no doubt Jim will bleat that it is a "war crime."""

I posted, ages ago, evidence that the Negev Bedouins had inhabited that land for 600 years.

You ignored it, as is your normal reaction when you have no response.

Thank you for confirming what I said earlier, that the Bedouin were already there 38 years ago, when the Israelis established a toxic site right alongside their dwellings.

All of which means that Israel has been aware of the dangers for 38 years, and has done nothing to alleviate it, and you praise them for wanting to move the inhabitants away from a hazard which should never have been there. Not to the up market accommodation for "real" Israelis, which replaces the Bedouins, but to low quality townships with high crime rates.

Yes Keith, Israel sure does look after its Arab minority.....NOT!!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Mar 13 - 05:55 AM

Don, I have NEVER raised any objection to anyone making a case against Israel.
That is just untrue.

I just say, OK now here is Israel's side of the story.

People who only want to hear one side, ie prejudiced bigots, get cross with me for that.

That seems to be your position Don.
You do not want anyone to put the opposite case.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 01 Mar 13 - 05:59 AM

Not fair to accuse Mike, Jim.

He has made plain his disappointment with the way that the Israeli government is operating, and he's under no obligation to keep repeating it.

He is not in Keith's camp, by any means, though he does have a point re personal comment, which, looking at recent comment could very well also be applied to Keith.

The only person who believes Keith is winning the argument is Keith, poor soul, who doesn't realise he has yet to produce a reasoned argument. Denial is not debate!!

Don T.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 01 Mar 13 - 06:04 AM

""Don, I have NEVER raised any objection to anyone making a case against Israel.
That is just untrue.""

No, of course you haven't. You just ignore their evidence, present none in rebuttal, and call them ""prejudiced bigots.""

All of which sounds quite suspiciously like objecting.

Seriously, is English your first language?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Mar 13 - 06:42 AM

I really don't want to come back into this at the moment - I have already been reprimanded by Keith in a PM for having done so (happy to put it up with my reply - waddya say Keith?)
"Not fair to accuse Mike, Jim"
Sorry Don - not convinced.
I have a vivid memory of Mike having supported Keith's vile outpourings on Muslims as not being racist on the 'Muslim prejudice' thread while at the same time being (rightly) offended at the idea of all Jews being categorised as usurers.
Don't particularly want to wade through that particular cess-pit again, but I might be persuaded if it was thought necessary - and it goes without saying, I apologise in advance if I have mis-remembered.
I still firmly believe his opposition to the Israeli regime is 'praising them with faint damns', but I might be persuaded otherwise if he was to offer an opinion on Shatila/Sabra, or toxic sites, or the forcible removal of Bedouins from their lands to make room for settlements, or the use of chemicals on lands, livestock and people..... but I'm sure Mike has as little concern for my opinion of him as I have for his of mine.
Now - a bit of weeding before it starts to piss with rain again.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Mar 13 - 06:48 AM

You just ignore their evidence, present none in rebuttal

Not true.
For instance I rebutted Jim's assertions about refuse sites with a discussion of Irael's sites from Haaretz, quotes from Egypt's government from Reuters etc., I have linked to pages on Israel's MFA site, to pages about Ismail Khaldi etc., etc.

I do regard it as prejudiced bigotry to only want to hear one side of a dispute.
I never object to anyone putting the case against Israel.
Why do you object to Israel' case being put?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Mar 13 - 07:19 AM

I posted, ages ago, evidence that the Negev Bedouins had inhabited that land for 600 years.
You ignored it, as is your normal reaction when you have no response.

No, I just considered it unworthy of a response.
We all knew that Bedouin have been roaming the lands from the Arabian Sea to the Mediterranean for centuries.
So what.
They can build houses wherever they want?

Our gypsies have roamed our land for centuries, but no-one is allowed to build wherever they want in a modern crowded land.
Why single out Israel?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 01 Mar 13 - 10:57 AM

Still don't see where being in any sort of 'closet' comes into it, Jim. That's all.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 01 Mar 13 - 11:57 AM

..."Mike having supported Keith's vile outpourings on Muslims as not being racist on the 'Muslim prejudice' thread" .....
.,,.,
and without going back over all that again, it seems necessary to remind you yet again that 'racism' is not an appropriate term to use in this context, as Islam is NOT a 'race'; the same accusations of abuse can be adduced, as is happening on the currently ongoing "Let's hope this isn't true" thread which I know you have been following, in the practices of Islamist Sharia governments in the Arab world, SE Asia, Africa [particularly N Nigeria], all of whose populations are racially distinct and it is the ideology, not anything to do with the 'race', which is being obloquised.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 01 Mar 13 - 12:10 PM

... and Mali, and some Indian Ocean islands; all Sharia Islamist, and all discrete racially.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 01 Mar 13 - 12:17 PM

As to my 'damns' against Israel being perceived by you as being 'faint', perhaps they will thus provide some counterbalance to your immoderate and hysterical denunciations. They seem anyhow to have convinced DonT of my sincerity in this particular. He actually reproached you for you constant abuse of me over the matter a few posts back.

(Thank you Don!)

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Mar 13 - 03:27 PM

Still don't see why 'closet'
Sorry, maybe 'out of the closet' is nearer the mark'
Didn't really expect your opinions on Sabra/Shatila, the treatment of Bedouins, et al – good job I didn't hold my breath!
"'racism' is not an appropriate term to use in this context,"
Describing male Pakistanis as being culturally implanted to make them prone to underage sex is a horrific racist statement which implicates an entire racial group (or the male half of one), which you describes as not being racist, Unless you would like to claim that it was all Jack Straw's fault, as Keith does.
Forcibly moving Bedouins from their traditional lands to make room for Jewish settlers is a racist act.
KEITH IS A RACIST.
Since my name has been taken in vain since I left this thread;
You have endless rejected linked information from sources you have claimed to be biased (or even "only blogs") yet you admit you are only presenting one side of the picture – you have even gone so far as to say that the only information on the Sabra/Shatila massacre in favour of the Israeli part in that massacre comes from the Israelis themselves – the facilitators and participants. That admission alone makes you prejudiced by definition of the word; the fact that the only claim of innocence of the Israelis comes from Israelis, the perpetrators themselves, underlines Israel's guilt in this massacre.
We have bent over backwards not to present information from Arab sources because we knew you would use that as an excuse to dismiss it – how does that make us bigoted and not you?
"Why Israel"
Because you chose to present the Bedouins in Israel as an example of egalitarian and tolerant treatment of all peoples by Israel. Why else – your choice alone?
Please stop complaining because your dishonesty and stupidity comes back and bites your bum.
You consistently refuse to explain why the maltreatment of people elsewhere in any way excuses the proven persecution of Bedouins by the Israeli regime, though your choosing Britain as a comparison is not a bad one – Britain is also persecuting and maltreating Travellers to the point of extinction as an ethnic group.
"They can build houses wherever they want?"
The Bedouins are a nomadic people and their enforced eviction to make room for Jewish settlers is not only a racist act, but the conditions pertaining on that site make it a war crime.
Also, your refusal to acknowledge the fascist/racist nature of forcibly removing one ethnic/cultural group to make room for another is an act of classical state fascism is an opportunity to reiterate this fact, over and over again until you stop ignoring it.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 01 Mar 13 - 04:55 PM

I still don't know what 'closet', in or out, you are on about. But let it pass.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Mar 13 - 05:31 PM

Arab Bedouin, Ismail Khaldi comes to a pro-Israel rally at a Seattle Synagogue to support the State of Israel's war against Terrorism, for real peace and to expose Palestinian (Pallywood) lies of Israel being a "Apartheid State". As an Arab, he is treated as well as a Jew. He is one of the most well respected soldiers in the IDF (Israeli Defense Forces) and is into Israeli Politics. He explains how Arabs are well treated by Israel and live better than when they did under Arab rule. He is not the only well known Arab Bedouin in the IDF, Israeli captain and war hero, Amos Yarkoni (born Abd el-Majid Hidr) was one of the best Israeli war hero of the 1940's during the Arab-Israeli War. Even "Palestinians" are racist against Bedouins, Druze, Baha'i and Gypsies (Domari people).

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 01 Mar 13 - 11:14 PM

...& as for your pathetic

"Didn't really expect your opinions on Sabra/Shatila, the treatment of Bedouins, et al – good job I didn't hold my breath!"

as Don so correctly pointed out, I have expressed my opinions on such goings-on by the Israeli govt to ∞. Do you really think I am going to go on to further ∞, to ∞+++, again&again&again&again, simply to satisfy your vile kinky notions of exploiting my feelings of lifelong frustration & grief & disappointment, you nasty little sadist you!

Be off with you, Carroll, you disgusting little tormentor. Bury your head & feel shame.

But I won't hold my breath either...

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 02 Mar 13 - 12:52 AM

And just in case that might sound a bit paranoid, remember the wise words of Joseph Heller in Catch-22, notoriously quoted by the brilliant but disturbed Kurt Cobain before his suicide: "Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you".

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Mar 13 - 03:56 AM

"I have expressed my opinions on such goings-on by the Israeli govt"
No you haven't Mike, you've given a rather gentle and very general and difficult-to-pin-down slap on the wrist to the perpetrators of these crimes - no more, at least, not as far as I can see, and I have hopefully searched for it not to be the case.
If I am wrong, indulge me and give me links to your opinions on Sabra/Shatila and the toxic nature of Israel's proposed resettlement of the Bedouins, and the fascist and inhuman nature of even contemplating such an act.
"Bury your head & feel shame."
No shame here, I haven't given my continued support to a racist who has defended and continues to defend war crimes and massacres and has consistently lied, distorted and evaded proven facts in order to do so.
I suggest you read through these two threads, and maybe revisit Muslim Prejudice and tell us that you find them honest, accurate, in any way backed up by evidence - and that you are happy to continue supporting such an individual.
I have no desire to arm-wrestle with you over a deplorably squalid little racist shit who has used this forum as a soapbox to promote race and culture hatred and defend deplorable war crimes and human rights abuses.
I think Don is probably right, but I have no idea why you have consistently given your support to somebody who continues to spout his filth, and who, as I'm sure you have noticed, is more than happy to hide behind your support to give some sort of respectability to his rantings – you have always struck me as better than that.
Nobody here has "exploited your feelings.... and it is sinking to Keith's level to suggest they have - shame on YOU. I haven't sought you out; you have chosen put yourself in the firing line with your support for this gobshite; what do you expect us to do - go home and let Keith get on with his racist vomit in order not to hurt your feelings?
These subjects are far too important to some of us to let them go unchallenged.
In sorrow,
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Mar 13 - 05:18 AM

defended and continues to defend war crimes and massacres and has consistently lied, distorted and evaded proven facts in order to do so.
deplorably squalid little racist shit who has used this forum as a soapbox to promote race and culture hatred and defend deplorable war crimes and human rights abuses.
continues to spout his filth,
Keith get on with his racist vomit

More lying personal abuse.
You do it when you lose an argument.
It is an admission of defeat.

If I had really done those things, everyone would know and remember it and I would be notorious.

If you believe it Jim, indulge me and provide links to me defending crimes or being racist.

In the "Prejudice" thread my case was just that there was an over-representation.
It was true then and has been proved true again and again in case after case since then.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Mar 13 - 05:20 AM

Sorry.
defended and continues to defend war crimes and massacres and has consistently lied, distorted and evaded proven facts in order to do so.
deplorably squalid little racist shit who has used this forum as a soapbox to promote race and culture hatred and defend deplorable war crimes and human rights abuses.
continues to spout his filth,
Keith get on with his racist vomit

More lying personal abuse.
You do it when you lose an argument.
It is an admission of defeat.

If I had really done those things, everyone would know and remember it and I would be notorious.

If you believe it Jim, indulge me and provide links to me defending crimes or being racist.

In the "Prejudice" thread my case was just that there was an over-representation.
It was true then and has been proved true again and again in case after case since then.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 02 Mar 13 - 07:06 AM

"give me links to your opinions on Sabra/Shatila and the toxic nature of Israel's proposed resettlement of the Bedouins"...

.,,.,..,

I have no specific links to these specific enormities to give you, Jim. They are all just a part of a pattern of entirely unpardonable behaviour on the part of an entity which I now regret having devoted so much of my youth to bringing about; so that I don't even read the details of the current incidents and situation there any longer because I find it [can you really not get this?!] altogether too painful and distressing. If you think that is 'faint' dispraise, mere 'wrist-slappery', think on. What more do you want me to say? I cannot but feel that the whole situation is the result of the behaviour of Israel's Arab neighbour-states in 1948; and that Israel's paranoia to this day derives directly thence. I suppose you will regard this as mere all water under the bridge; but my Heller quote re paranoia applies to nations as well as individuals. Israel is paranoid; would be as I say: but that doesn't mean that they are not all, or most of them, still 'after them', aren't they? Israel has gone too far. They have alienated all right-thinking people. Even my sister keeps her lips buttoned on the subject, tho her first son was born there. He lives in Devon now; but her second son, who was born here, now lives there - and our lives are spent in a state of constant worry and anxiety as to whether he will still be living there tomorrow. Try a bit of empathy, Jim. Sorry if I have gone a bit incoherent. Enough, before I burst into tears. The subject is one infinitely distressing to me

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Mar 13 - 07:22 AM

"If I had really done those things, everyone would know and remember it and I would be notorious."
You are Keith, it appears that you thick skin has prevented you from noticing it.
None of this refers to anything but your arguments and the way you have behaved towards members of this forum - it is not personal abuse, it is a summing up of how you have conducted yourself throughout several threads.
You have lied, you have made outrageously racist statements - which you have blamed on others, you have refused to back up your statements with anything resembling facts, you have deliberately ignored direct requests to comment on facts put before you and to explain your own statements, (eg. why is a massacre carried out 30 years ago not relevant when discussing Israel's human rights record?, or how does pointing out oppressive behaviour by other states in any way absolve Israel's appalling behaviour?, you have accused others of bigotry and discrimination while actually admitting that you are only putting Israel's point of view.
You have had a dozen points put to you why the proposed site for resettlement is poisonous and have been given the opportunity to dispute them point by point, which you have totally ignored, yet you go on denying these facts.
You have done the same with Israeli massacres and its slaughter of non combatants, all historically documented, and you have not produced one shred of evidence to back your claims.
I have never ever come across anybody so unashamedly dishonest, nor have I ever anybody so lacking in self respect as to behave the way you have publicly.
Not a personal attack - another invitation to prove that what I have just written is untrue.
Feel free.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 02 Mar 13 - 07:23 AM

""I never object to anyone putting the case against Israel.
Why do you object to Israel' case being put?""

I have no objection to you putting Israel's case Keith. Please let me know when you get round to actually doing so.

Denial is not evidence of innocence!
The word of the accused is not evidence of innocence!
Whitewash is not used to cover evidence of innocence!

Produce evidence from some source which is not wholly owned or threatened by Israel.

I have produced the evidence of Israelis against the Israeli government and the IDF.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 02 Mar 13 - 07:32 AM

""No, I just considered it unworthy of a response.
We all knew that Bedouin have been roaming the lands from the Arabian Sea to the Mediterranean for centuries.
So what.
They can build houses wherever they want?""

More devious evasion!

If you had read the whole article, you would be aware that the Bedouins of that Negev community have been SETTLED there, farming for 600 years. That particular community is not nomadic, and was settled there in the 16th century, still there when Israel came into existence and still there when Israel decided to build a toxic facility next to their long established land.

They didn't wander in and settle next door to a health hazard, it was brought to them!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 02 Mar 13 - 07:40 AM

""He is not the only well known Arab Bedouin in the IDF, Israeli captain and war hero, Amos Yarkoni (born Abd el-Majid Hidr) was one of the best Israeli war hero of the 1940's during the Arab-Israeli War.""

So, he fought against his own people, changed his name to a Jewish one, and you cite him as a shining example of how well Arabs are treated.

He's a bloody Israeli war hero, yet he felt the need to cange his name to fit in.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 02 Mar 13 - 07:45 AM

""No you haven't Mike, you've given a rather gentle and very general and difficult-to-pin-down slap on the wrist to the perpetrators of these crimes - no more, at least, not as far as I can see, and I have hopefully searched for it not to be the case.""

For Christ's sake Jim. Give it a bloody rest.

None of us owe you any duty to tell you squat about our opinions. If we choose so to do, fine.

If not, learn to live with it. You are not a member of the Spanish Inquisition and you have no right to anything more than we are prepared to offer.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Mar 13 - 11:29 AM

"For Christ's sake Jim. Give it a bloody rest."
Done here Don
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Mar 13 - 11:35 AM

I meant with Mike of course; I suspect that the subject will run and run
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Mar 13 - 02:07 PM

No Jim.
I am not notorious.
You have not convinced anyone else that I am an evil racist because I am not one and so my posts do not incense anyone but you.

Al, Dick, McGrath and others have all tried to tell you.

You have lied, you have made outrageously racist statements
not true.

defended and continues to defend war crimes and massacres and has consistently lied, distorted and evaded proven facts in order to do so.

deplorably squalid little racist shit who has used this forum as a soapbox to promote race and culture hatred and defend deplorable war crimes and human rights abuses.

continues to spout his filth,

Keith get on with his racist vomit

Nasty, untrue personal abuse.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Mar 13 - 02:20 PM

Don.
Produce evidence from some source which is not wholly owned or threatened by Israel.

Sorry, but I am putting Israel's case.
And, you said "I have no objection to you putting Israel's case Keith."

If you had read the whole article, you would be aware that the Bedouins of that Negev community have been SETTLED there, farming for 600 years.

Of course I read it Don.
It was that same old Pheobe Greenwood stuff theat Jim put up as well.

If you ignore the propaganda, you will see that they are living in tents and tin shacks.
No permanent buildings.
Tents and shacks do not last ten years never mind 600.

this slipped through.
" these villages will be evacuated in the next five years and ecah of their inhabitants compensated to move to one of seven government-planned townships"

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 02 Mar 13 - 03:53 PM

"" these villages will be evacuated in the next five years and ecah of their inhabitants compensated to move to one of seven government-planned townships""

Townships in the poorest districts, with built in high crime levels?

Some compensation! Out of the toxic frying pan into the high crime slum.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 02 Mar 13 - 04:05 PM

""Sorry, but I am putting Israel's case.
And, you said "I have no objection to you putting Israel's case Keith.""

You don't accept the Palestinians' or Hamas' word alone, so we put up corroborating evidence, much of it from Israeli and neutral sources.

You put up Israeli denials as a case and seem to think that outweighs all evidence to the contrary.

I don't believe you have a clue what constitutes a case.

I don't believe you have a clue what constitutes genuine evidence.

In fact, I think you believe that evidence is whatever you choose to believe, and incontovertible because you choose to believe it.

You have signally failed to put Israel's case and if you ever had to present your ""evidence"" in any court, you would be torn apart by any half decent law student.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: bobad
Date: 02 Mar 13 - 04:16 PM

"Produce evidence from some source which is not wholly owned or threatened by Israel."

Antisemitism as defined by the European Union Monitoring Centre on Racism and Xenophobia (EUMC)

"Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective — such as, especially but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions."

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Mar 13 - 05:11 PM


You put up Israeli denials as a case and seem to think that outweighs all evidence to the contrary.
No.
I just relate Israel's side of the story.

Townships in the poorest districts, with built in high crime levels?
That is just Greenwood's opinion.
Biased and prejudiced propaganda.
Do you think people prefer to live in shacks and tents with no sanitation, water or power?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Mar 13 - 02:55 AM

"Sorry, but I am putting Israel's case."
And those (just about everybody here) who oppose you have taken their information from everywhere - the U.N., Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, the British, American, Israeli.... press, specific studies of Israel's built-in inequality (the Apartheid State), American, British and Jewish accounts of the massacre of refugees, Scientific Journals, Israeli's own health reports.... (just about anywhere's throughout the English-speaking world's)with a few translations thrown in.
You haven't attempted to disprove any of the evidence, you have rejected it out of hand as being prejudiced, 'antisemitic'; you have even rejected some evidence on the basis that it comes from the "antisemitic" Guardian purely on the the say-so of a site that declares in it's mission statement that it's role is to expose the "antisemitic nature of The Guardian".   
You are now insisting, by your constant reiterating that you are "putting Israel's case", that you are biased - you might have added that you are rejecting all evidence that doesn't come from Israel, which totally sums up the biased nature of your arguments.
That is the definition of "bias"; only taking into consideration one side of the argument.
By the way, you have claimed that you have not accused any of us of antisemitism.
By rejecting the evidence ("not worthy of consideration") put before you on the basis that it is biased and antisemitic, that is exactly what you are accusing everyone who is disgusted by Israel's human rights record of - antisemitism, or at the very least antisemitic dupes.
Your denial of lying appears to be 'lying about lying' - I trust we will soon be treated to you lying about lying about lying!
There's a whole list of examples if you want me to dig them, out - this forum's full of them; but your claim to have read all the links put forward, then passing a year old one as being "out-of-date", then being totally unaware of how many you have been given is being caught 'bang-to-rights - that's the problem with lying in public.   
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Mar 13 - 05:04 AM

And BTW - you have also admitted that the only claim of of innocence of Israel's war crimes is from Israel herself, which more or less clinches her guilt.
"That is just Greenwood's opinion."
Nope - a fact reported throughout the Israeli Inequality survey and from 100 other sources - some of which you already have - read 'em and weep!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 03 Mar 13 - 06:49 AM

""Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective — such as, especially but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions.""

Where precisely in that oft quoted screed is there any reference to disagreeing with, deploring, or decrying the actions of a national government, or are you now applying different standards to the Israeli government than to all others?

Antisemitism would more properly apply to Keith's constant denigration and disrespect of those Israeli citizens who have either given evidence against, or deplored their government's actions.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Mar 13 - 06:57 AM

If I can not provide any evidence or arguments, it is surprising that the discussion has lasted for so long, and that you have lost it.

So, has Israel been condemned for the airstrike?
No, because the weapons were destined for the evil terrorists of Hezbollah now killing Syrians for Assad.

And, did Egypt's government pour sewage into the tunnels because they were used in the attack?
Yes. They are quite clear about that.

And, are Israel's refuse sites any more toxic than ours?
No.

Has anyone been forced to move to a toxic site, or to stay near one?
No.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Mar 13 - 08:42 AM

Nope - a fact reported throughout the Israeli Inequality survey

Nope- not a single mention for "Bedouin" or "Negev."

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:yaQGdb_Gh1MJ:adalah.org/upfiles/2011/Adalah_The_Inequality_Report_March_2011.pdf+Ineq

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Mar 13 - 08:45 AM

http://adalah.org/upfiles/2011/Adalah_The_Inequality_Report_March_2011.pdf

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Stringsinger
Date: 03 Mar 13 - 01:38 PM

The reason the discussion has lasted so long is that it is urgent that the world condemn Israel for it's expansion and oppression.

Israel has been and will continue to be condemned for it's air strikes because they are ruthless and accomplish nothing to assuage Hezbollah or any other group like it.

Not so fast about Egypt pouring sewage into tunnels. That has not been confirmed.

The Palestinian people are forced into living conditions which don't preclude their exposure to toxic sites. People are forced into these conditions not by choice but often by design. To think otherwise is simply naive. They are usually built by those inhabitants who are not wealthy or privileged.

No one should ever have to be forced to live by a toxic waste site and yet increasingly this is what is happening all over the world.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel condemned by UN
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 03 Mar 13 - 02:59 PM

""The Palestinian people are forced into living conditions which don't preclude their exposure to toxic sites.""

Not to mention the people of Gaza, who are forced to live in and around bombsites and unexploded munitions.

Don T.