Molly Dancing

Subject: RE: Molly Dancing
From: pavane
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 03:46 AM

Crazy little woman -

"The Molly dancers should ask to dance on grass, on a stage, on a Marley floor or maybe even on plywood. Not on concrete."

would they have to call them Marley dancers then?
(beats a hasty retreat)

Subject: RE: Molly Dancing
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 05:50 AM

Was reading a history book yesterday about debauchery in Olde Englande. (I have strange tastes in reading matter!) Apparently there were several clubs of ill repute in London in the 18th Century, where men (presumably transvestites) met to cross-dress in private and hold rather drunken parties. These were universally called 'Molly Houses'. A 'Molly' was a term for an effeminate man who liked female-style attire. I suppose this is the origin of 'Molly' in Molly Dancing, where the original groups comprised males only, dressed bizarrely in women's clothes. (I hasten to add I have no problem with transvestism. Each to his own!)

Subject: RE: Molly Dancing
From: treewind
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 06:46 AM

The more traditional style Molly teams have a single "Molly" who is dressed as a female. Mepal certainly do, and Old Glory Have a "Lord and Lady" - the Lady is like a "Molly" and the "Lord" is dressed a bit smarter than the other men with a black top hat instead of the usual brown Trilby.

I think skirts are mandatory for all dancers and musicians in Gog Magog, and certainly an acceptable option for the men in Pig Dyke.

The presence of one or two special characters dressed differently (and sometimes a man dressed as a woman) isn't limited to Molly dancing, of course. Many Cotswold Morris teams have a fool and a hobby horse or other animal, rapper sword teams have a "Tommy" and/or "Betty".

Subject: RE: Molly Dancing
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 07:06 AM

Thank you treewind, I find all this very interesting. I've always loved the Pantomime Dame tradition, and the Mummers' Plays where the Fair Maiden is often a chap (complete with blond plaits). I imagine all this has roots very very far back in our history, and thereby endows Molly Dancing with quite a lot of traditional credibility.

Subject: RE: Molly Dancing
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 08:30 AM

Hi Eliza,

"I imagine all this has roots very very far back in our history, and thereby endows Molly Dancing with quite a lot of traditional credibility. "

You are perfectly at liberty to imagine anything you like but that doesn't mean it happened. People in the world of morris ( A theme park may open soon) have been saying all sorts of things for a hundred years or so and in many cases they have little or no historical evidence.

Does it matter?

Best wishes

Subject: RE: Molly Dancing
From: treewind
Date: 12 Feb 13 - 02:58 AM

While we're on the subject, anyone within reach of North London may be interested to know that Pig Dyke Molly are performing tonight at The Lilian Bayliss Dance Studio Theatre, Sadlers Wells, supporting Dan Canham's "Wild Card" show.

Subject: RE: Molly Dancing
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 12 Feb 13 - 04:41 AM

Hello Les!
I probably didn't make myself clear. What I meant to express was the fact that Mummers' plays, 'Dames' and so on definitely do have a historical context, and that this lends a certain 'historical' cachet to Molly costumes and Morris 'fools', 'hobby 'osses, Rapper 'dames' etc. (If a 'Morris Theme Park' opened soon at a venue near me, I'd be first in the queue, would apply for a Pensioner's Season Ticket and haunt the place!)
Best wishes,
Eliza

Subject: RE: Molly Dancing
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 12 Feb 13 - 06:16 AM

The historical context is a bit like a three dimensional jigsaw with many of the bits missing. This enables people to 'cherry pick' bits of history and use it as evidence in contexts that have no real connection.

The best read is Ronald Hutton - The Stations of the Sun - acres and acres of evidence there

Best wishes