BS: Compulsory Unpaid Work Found Unlawful

Subject: RE: BS: Compulsory Unpaid Work Found Unlawful
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Feb 13 - 05:03 PM

It is less against them than the other main parties. IT is the least bad option.

Subject: RE: BS: Compulsory Unpaid Work Found Unlawful
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 18 Feb 13 - 02:10 PM

I'd agree with that, Richard, but ask the average Labour supporter/voter and they seem to think that their party IS on the side of the oppressed. It's because of that wilful blindness that we'll probably get another Labour government next time and then all of those blind puppets, who are presently ranting and raving about the evil Tories (can't argue with that!), will fall silent whilst their party pursue neo-liberal 'Blacherite' policies and continue to widen the gulf between rich and poor.

Subject: RE: BS: Compulsory Unpaid Work Found Unlawful
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Feb 13 - 12:37 PM

There is no party of any size fighting the class wars (of this or any other century) from the perspective of the oppressed. The current "New Labour" party is not doing it and the conservatives and the lib-dems are actively on the side of the oppressors.

Subject: RE: BS: Compulsory Unpaid Work Found Unlawful
From: GUEST,concerened
Date: 18 Feb 13 - 12:23 PM

Yeh Shimrod you are damned right..but one does live in hope..

Subject: RE: BS: Compulsory Unpaid Work Found Unlawful
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 18 Feb 13 - 07:55 AM

Yes, 'concerned', we certainly do. Trouble is that politics in this country are presently dominated by two huge dinosaurs who are still fighting the class wars of the 19th and 20th centuries and have become unfit for purpose. Most Tory voters seem to vote for 'their' party because they hope that it will punish those of a lower social status to themselves (their hopes are presently being fulfilled). Labour party supporters vote for their party because "grandad mined coal with his teeth and if it were good enough fer grandad, it's good enough for me!" - whilst failing to notice that the Labour Party is now another centre-right party that has swallowed the baleful ideology of the neo-liberal, free marketeers 'hook-line-and-sinker' and grandad is revolving so fast in his grave that he's causing local seismic disturbances!

Trouble is, there's not even a hint of a credible alternative on the horizon ... is there?

Subject: RE: BS: Compulsory Unpaid Work Found Unlawful
From: GUEST,concerned
Date: 18 Feb 13 - 07:06 AM

Bless you Shimrod. Me thoughts are with you

.But we need to start doing summatt about it ourselves.

Don't look at the labour party ..a real fucking joke... the way out left are that disjointed they spend all their time in intellectual posturing (like some on this thread) and the traitorish liblab or what the fuck they are calling themselves these days.

No Comrades, the only way forward is for us all to form our own coalition of common interest groups.. Trade Unions, green party, tenants associations unemployed, pensioners RMA associations.

A way forward?

please discuss

Subject: RE: BS: Compulsory Unpaid Work Found Unlawful
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 18 Feb 13 - 04:56 AM

I was made redundant while we were still under a Labour government. My ex-employer paid me a pension but I thought I'd better sign on because I was under the illusion that the Job Centre might be of help in my search for alternative employment. They promptly informed me that, as a result of my pension, they would be paying me £0 job seekers allowance and that I would 'lose' this princely sum if I didn't turn up for regular interviews (!) Out of curiousity I turned up for my interviews, clutching a folder full of application forms, and they told me that I was "doing all the right things" but they provided me with no help whatsoever.

So I went from being a manager in a R&D department to working in a call centre - which filled a gap until I'd paid off my mortgage. I now find that my pension pays me enough to cover my needs, but not necessarily my wants. All I can say is that I am glad that I was born at a time when people and their skills were valued and were given a 'helping hand up life's ladder'. God help the next few generations!

Subject: RE: BS: Compulsory Unpaid Work Found Unlawful
From: GUEST,concerened
Date: 18 Feb 13 - 04:48 AM

whats a lollygagger?

Subject: RE: BS: Compulsory Unpaid Work Found Unlawful
From: GUEST,concerned
Date: 18 Feb 13 - 04:40 AM

Thread creep.

Subject: RE: BS: Compulsory Unpaid Work Found Unlawful
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Feb 13 - 09:02 PM

What little list of mine?

Subject: RE: BS: Compulsory Unpaid Work Found Unlawful
From: GUEST,okie from muskokee
Date: 17 Feb 13 - 04:14 PM

Hey youse guys..this is some of the funniest shit i have read i.n Years. Keep itup guys common leveller dont let the concerned lollygagger get away with it!! He aint to much of a wiseacre for you is he?

Subject: RE: BS: Compulsory Unpaid Work Found Unlawful
From: GUEST,Musket sans cookie
Date: 17 Feb 13 - 04:11 PM

Bridge forgot to mention political bigotry in his little list.

Talking of which, I notice that Ian Duncan Smith said today that the rulings are just a minor set back and he is pushing through revised regulations to countermand the court for any future attempt. He also said people who think they are too good for supermarkets deserve the Shitty end of the stick, or words to that effect.

You know, when he led the Tories I thought he wasn't representative of the nasty element. Seems I'm wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Compulsory Unpaid Work Found Unlawful
From: GUEST,concerned
Date: 17 Feb 13 - 06:39 AM

Well mr leveller,few things before I retire undefeated from this post.

1 I suppose you feel remarks like * at least I can spell" constitutes a intellectual victory in your book.

2. never played the poor me card EVER, no evidence in this post of me doing it.

3. No evidence of ass wuppin'

4. Only person to get out of his playpen is you.

5. suggest you take note of guest post and what he says about you.

6.I think you should lighten up and grow up.

You are so way, way ,way out of my league it is embarrasing to carry this on.

And , finally, quite frankly ,you are boring the ass of of me

Subject: RE: BS: Compulsory Unpaid Work Found Unlawful
From: theleveller
Date: 17 Feb 13 - 03:54 AM

So, concerned, you come on here, start an argument, insult people, and when they turn round and kick your arse you play the 'poor little me' card. I think you should go back to your playpen and not try to play with the grown-ups.

Subject: RE: BS: Compulsory Unpaid Work Found Unlawful
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 04:38 PM

No prob don't like to see it,should mind my own, and any point he has just gets dismissed like he dismisses you for your spelling.Mad 8)

Subject: RE: BS: Compulsory Unpaid Work Found Unlawful
From: GUEST,concerned
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 04:33 PM

Thanks GuestGuestlex,

Subject: RE: BS: Compulsory Unpaid Work Found Unlawful
From: GUEST,Guestlex
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 04:29 PM

At least I can spell :) " My guess dyslexic usually means high IQ too,cept in my case I got the looks.Anyway you usually end up getting pwnd like that, so wouldn't take it personal.

Subject: RE: BS: Compulsory Unpaid Work Found Unlawful
From: GUEST,concerned
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 04:26 PM

................while you can.............

Subject: RE: BS: Compulsory Unpaid Work Found Unlawful
From: GUEST,concerned
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 04:02 PM

Have a nice day

Subject: RE: BS: Compulsory Unpaid Work Found Unlawful
From: GUEST,concerned
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 03:55 PM

Shallow and hollow little man.Your responce has justified my opinion of you.

Subject: RE: BS: Compulsory Unpaid Work Found Unlawful
From: theleveller
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 10:21 AM

At least I can spell :)

Subject: RE: BS: Compulsory Unpaid Work Found Unlawful
From: GUEST,concerned
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 08:45 AM

It really is laughable... you slag me off for my inarticulate troll like rantings and then launch a very insulting written attack on me.

Think it merits a reply?.. you did.


I dont know you, and by your posts dont want to. You sound like a very self oppianated extremly unpleasant person.

My remarks were of a general nature and from the heart.I, like you say you do spend my life challenging through direct action.

Dont like what I say? tough.. live with it... I do.

BTW I do live in he real world.. and I dont like it very much

Subject: RE: BS: Compulsory Unpaid Work Found Unlawful
From: GUEST,concerned
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 08:31 AM

Dont like critism eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Compulsory Unpaid Work Found Unlawful
From: theleveller
Date: 15 Feb 13 - 08:59 AM

Not sure what point you're trying to make in your inarticulate, troll-like rantings, GUEST:concerned. But if you're referring to me: how do you know I'm a socialist, armchair or otherwise; how do you know that I'm not involved in direct action (I have been most of my life), why do you think you merit a reply, and what the fuck has it got to do with you anyway? Might be good if you extracted your fat head from your constipated arsehole and took a look at what the real world is like.

Subject: RE: BS: Compulsory Unpaid Work Found Unlawful
From: GUEST,concerned
Date: 15 Feb 13 - 08:12 AM

No reply eh?..................I thought so, gutless as well as armchair socialists.

Subject: RE: BS: Compulsory Unpaid Work Found Unlawful
From: GUEST,concerned
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 07:07 PM

Well Richard, cut it anyway you like. Whatever colour there bumholes are,if they were to rise up of of them for once. Direct action is the only way we will get this lot to wake up and take notice

Subject: RE: BS: Compulsory Unpaid Work Found Unlawful
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 06:07 PM

Please, Guest,concerned, I think some of them are blue arseholes.

Subject: RE: BS: Compulsory Unpaid Work Found Unlawful
From: GUEST,concerned
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 05:55 PM

Come on you lot grow up!!!!!!!! Any one with any sense knows what we are seeing is the downfall of capitilism and all its evils.

"I still have right to my opinion" NO YOU DONT!! if that opinion is as half arsed, biggoted and ill infrmed as some of you.

I would agree with you, but then we would both be wrong? MY ARSE!!

Stop blaming the chavs and chavesses, immigrants and whover the gutter press are telling us to blame at the moment.

The more intelligant of you out there should have grasped the fact that we are in the middle of a WORLD WIDE FUCKINBG DEPRESSION!!!!!!!!!! creatated by the super rich areseholes playing monopoly with our money.

It is about time some of you pathetic beige asshole woke up and took to the streets.

Subject: RE: BS: Compulsory Unpaid Work Found Unlawful
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 03:00 PM

While I appreciate the Leveller's views, I should say that there are some opinions, founded in ignorance and bigotry and prejudice, to which nobody has any right. We no longer tolerate racism, sexism, or religious bigotry and it is right that we should not.

Subject: RE: BS: Compulsory Unpaid Work Found Unlawful
From: theleveller
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 06:48 AM

"I still have a right to my opinions"

Yes, you do - but accept that some of us find them extremely unpleasant, especially when it comes to saying who can and cannot have children (you think they are a 'luxury' that only the wealthy should be allowed?), how people should spend the money that is rightfully theirs, how they should dress, and that they should be forced into slave labour. I'd say that was pretty much an extreme right-wing agenda that the BNP would be proud to endorse.

Subject: RE: BS: Compulsory Unpaid Work Found Unlawful
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 06:02 AM

Oh, and wasn't it you who said there was no sex between teenagers in Middlesex in the 60s? Fantasist.

Subject: RE: BS: Compulsory Unpaid Work Found Unlawful
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 06:01 AM

You pretend to be unaware of where Eliza Carthy and her father Martin stand in the hierarchy of folk music in the UK - and unaware of where they politically stand - yet post on a folk forum? Innocuous? Troll.


You invent judgments against the unemployed, you say they must not breed? Sick. And not in a good way.

Subject: RE: BS: Compulsory Unpaid Work Found Unlawful
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 05:56 AM

Well prepare to disbelieve once more Richard. I truly had never heard of the lady. I looked her up on Google, and she seems to be a perfectly innocuous singer. Even if I had chosen her name deliberately, (which isn't the case) what connotations did you draw from that? I have never pretended to be knowledgeable, and am quite content to accept I may be 'ignorant', but I still have a right to my opinions and not to be called 'sick' and/or 'a Troll'. I suggest a nice warm bath, a glass of good ale, a laxative and an early night. You may feel less like an angry bear in the morning.

Subject: RE: BS: Compulsory Unpaid Work Found Unlawful
From: theleveller
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 04:38 AM

Of course there are wasters who exploit the system - perhaps they take their lead from the MPs who do it for much greater financial gain. But there are, I believe, far more genuine jonseekers who want to work but who may not be equipped for the hard manual work that is often taken by immigrant workers (as are some of the most highly skilled and qualified jobs for which there are no takers).

On the other side of the fence - and I can only speak from personal experience here - I have found the staff at the Jobcentre to be considerate and as helpful as they can be under a repressive regime that has become far worse under this government. They have told me that they are constantly receiving directives which, in effect, are to harrass claimants until they finally just give up. My own adviser, Kath, has done everything she can to help me and, after some difficulties, finally managed to get an 'exceptional' payment for me to cover the cost of a part-time PTLLS teaching course which will allow me to teach Creative Writing and other courses to adult learners.

So let's stop the wholesale condemnation and demonisation of all benefit claimants - that's precisely what this government's PR machine is trying to do, to cover up their own inadequacies and incompetence. Let's face it, most of us have been in receipt of some 'benefit', whether it's tax relief on pension contributions, the use of the NHS, free education....that's what the Welfare State was set up to do; to help everyone have a better life and to protect those who, for whatever reason, cannot take care of themselves and their families. And that is precisely what this government is seeking to dismantle. Will you resist that or support it and take the consequences for the effect that it will have on this entire country?

I know where I stand.

Subject: RE: BS: Compulsory Unpaid Work Found Unlawful
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 06:49 PM

Eliza - I don't believe you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliza_Carthy

You cannot post on this forum and be so ignorant.

Oh, hang on...

Subject: RE: BS: Compulsory Unpaid Work Found Unlawful
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 02:48 PM

Thanks for that perspective Megan.

Subject: RE: BS: Compulsory Unpaid Work Found Unlawful
From: Megan L
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 02:29 PM

I found out after David died that when the kirk folk walk out of your life it is the lassies who are single parents, tatooed and a bit mair fond o a drink than me that walked into my life. They pulled me in among them at the local cafe they go with me to meetings and drag me out to the pictures or even window shopping so I don't retreat back into myself. They dont judge they dont ask what I can do for them they saw my shrinking emotional self and do what they can to keep me part of the community.

They accept me as I am and I accept them as they are none of us are perfect.

Subject: RE: BS: Compulsory Unpaid Work Found Unlawful
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 02:07 PM

I'm very sorry Richard, but in my ignorance I've never heard of Eliza Carthy. Maybe you'll enlighten me?

Subject: RE: BS: Compulsory Unpaid Work Found Unlawful
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 01:32 PM

Your husband's work, Eliza, displaces any other person from that work, whether he or they are self employed or employed. With the lack of money (= demand) in the system there are only so many buyers of his goods or services. Apply the same standards to your husband as you do to for example many Eastern Europeans who come here and work on a self-employed basis. You can't have it both ways.

Babies are often unplanned. Dogs are often a cheaper substitute - something to cherish and nurture.

Plenty of intending tattoo artists tattoo their friends for no charge, to get practice (like trainee dentists and apprentice hairdressers).

The poor with bad credit records cannot get landlines. They have to be contactable and to be able to make contact to seek work.

You don't seem to know much about the people you demonise.

Plainly you seek only to argue that those who cannot maintain themselves should suffer. Civilisation moved on from that long ago, one part of that step being the repeal of the Poor Laws. Yes, you are a bigot.

My suspicion is that you invented the name Eliza for yourself because it is Eliza Carthy's name.

Subject: RE: BS: Compulsory Unpaid Work Found Unlawful
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 01:29 PM

hi eliza.
i suspect the name jibe refers to "eliza dolittle" but if wrong i,m sure richard will enlighten us.i think your comments are mostly reasonable though sadly girls trailing around babies is a sad fact of life now ,which though sometimes female irresponsibility ,is often males taking advantage of them and then shirking responsibility for them.i think that the unemployed should contribute to the community rather than seeing benefits as entitlement and it would hopefully give them selfworth and give a propective employer confidence in employing them.i dont see why buisnesses should benefit from them though.
in my experience some posters are never going to discuss in a civil manner.

Subject: RE: BS: Compulsory Unpaid Work Found Unlawful
From: Mr Red
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 12:52 PM

Governments make the laws, governments can change them.

The case in point was was a lass who had a recognisable unpaid job that was giving her work experience with the kind of work she trained for at uni and was coerced to work as a mindless shelf stacker along with all the other unpaid slaves. It, and the court case may have damaged her employment prospects because she rocked the boat, and lost the contiuity of the "work experience". That is the tragedy. But if I was a museum curator I would recognise her forthrightness, and tenacity.

The system isn't geared for intelligent people. Job Centres employ pen-pushers, who aren't paid enough either, so they push the buttons they are told to.

My experience of the system was just as revealing, I played them at their own game - but there isn't much room for manoeuvrings. I won a point or two and saw that they couldn't join all the dots even with the data in front of them. I advised them - they didn't understand what I was talking about. There was no button for "listen to the guy with the brains".

A simple thing like: double clicking on a form and typing immediately instead of deleting all the letters and starting again. She claimed she was a luddite (with a degree). And continued as ever.

But the system is about works-shy people being kicked. The collateral damge is the soft targets. They have thicker hides, and are far more street smart. And they don't give a shit. Poundland would be well advised not to employ those of that category anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Compulsory Unpaid Work Found Unlawful
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 12:33 PM

I will answer your points Richard. My husband was an immigrant and is now a British Citizen. He has never applied for benefits. He is not entitled to them as my two pensions proclude it. He works for himself and created the job he does, thus not taking anybody's opportunity to work. He would indeed scorn asking for State help as he says he is able-bodied and perfectly capable of working in his chosen sphere. We have in fact paid many thousands of pounds to UKBA for the various processes leading to his Citizenship. On the subject of tattoos, they cost quite a lot of money, as do cigarettes, mobile phones, drugs, dogs and babies, luxuries I would have thought beyond the Jobseekers' financial scope. No, I do not think the unemployed should be producing children they cannot maintain. (The dogs of course provide an extra payment claimable from the benefits system) I am neither a Troll, nor sick. Yes, I do think one should say to a drug addict that they should clean themselves up. There are many agencies willing to assist them to do so. Finally, I am rather puzzled about your remark concerning my 'screen name'. It means nothing to me, I just thought Eliza was a pleasant choice. Is there in fact a sinister connotation to 'Eliza'? If so, I'm totally in the dark about it. I do hope this answers some of your queries and objections.

Subject: RE: BS: Compulsory Unpaid Work Found Unlawful
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 12:19 PM

Where was the honesty or accuracy in the positions of those who denigrate immigrants and benefit seekers? Those bigots deserve no favourable consideration nor courtesy. They are liars and propagandists.

Subject: RE: BS: Compulsory Unpaid Work Found Unlawful
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 12:17 PM

I find it totally objectionable that large private companies are using free labour to do work that they would otherwise have to pay for, and pay tax for.

If I could set rules:

Free placements should only be used to MATCH new jobs created.

Free placements should be subject to Tax and NIC contributions as iof they were paid posts.

It would be illegal for unpaid workers to do any work whatsoever that is also being done by paid staff (but see exception for small businesses)

It would be illegal to make a person redundant to make room for a free placement.

Both offences would lead to massive fines and a criminal record for the directors and top-level executives of the company.

Priority should go to small businesses to cover the costs of bringing a potential new worker up to steam before employment. This would at least help small businesses gain the capacity to offer real employment.

Anyway thats my rant

Subject: RE: BS: Compulsory Unpaid Work Found Unlawful
From: eddie1
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 12:08 PM

I think some here are talking a load of rubbish!

I worked in a Government department paying benefits. Believe me, this country has more than its fair share of wasters who have no wish to work. Thank God we have people coming from Eastern European countries who are prepared to work, and work hard, often for very low wages. I hardly think they are depriving our own unemployed of jobs!
The young lady in question is a university graduate and volunteers in a museum, if what I have read is correct. Not exactly staying in bed and waiting for the benefits to roll in!

I've also had a lot of experience in working with volunteers and would ask why people do voluntary work? It can be to occupy themselves but very often it is to gain experience that can be put on a cv as well as being useful for getting a job in the very field in which they are volunteering! Nothing wrong with that, especially for young people who are often caught up on the roundabout – no job because they have no experience and no experience because they can't find a job!

On several occasions I took part in an exercise to encourage people to take on a few weeks work during the potato harvest. I very often found that young graduates and others of that ilk welcomed the chance to earn a few weeks' wages whereas those from a lower socio-economic group saw this kind of work as only being suitable for the "Tramps and Hawkers" referred to in a music thread above.

Good luck to the young lady who had the courage to take action against a system that is so short-sighted as to simply provide cannon fodder for an organisation that should, as several people have already pointed out, be paying at least the minimum wage.

I hope she is able to find a job soon that will make more use of her skills and possibly be of more value to the country!

Eddie

Subject: RE: BS: Compulsory Unpaid Work Found Unlawful
From: theleveller
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 10:56 AM

There is no such thing as an 'average' claimant. They are all people with minds, feelings and often a lot of responsibilities. They come in all age ranges. Many have worked for years, paid tax and NI and find themselves in their current situation because of the recession caused by the greedy and feckless bankers. I'm appalled by your vicious stereotyping - frankly, Eliza, I had you down as a person of greater insight and humanity.

Subject: RE: BS: Compulsory Unpaid Work Found Unlawful
From: GUEST,owl glass
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 10:15 AM

Here we go again!! A good, intelligent discussion falls apart as the name calling starts. Richard Bridge, if you must resort to playground tactics, please do it in the playground - not here. Where do you think you are, the House of Commons?

Subject: RE: BS: Compulsory Unpaid Work Found Unlawful
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 09:57 AM

Hmm, so the young have to have contributed for 20 years. Isn't that going to need a time machine?

Oh, and the poor must not have dogs or babies?

And must not be mentally ill?

Oh, and you disapprove of tattoos? You are seriously uptight and inhibited aren't you. Why should personal adornment be banned? It is customary in many cultures. Or do you believe that you are somehow "better than savages"?

Eliza you are not merely an imaginative bigot, but sick.

And you are still ducking the question of why your husband, who has not contributed for any great period since you say freely that he is an immigrant, should be entitled to benefits or free to work, when you say that other immigrants should not be so.

Or are you proposing to say to a drug addict "You must clean yourself up and stop using drugs"? Do you have any idea of the success rate of that sort of hectoring? About zero.

Actually, I think you are a troll, and that your choice of screen name is no accident.

Subject: RE: BS: Compulsory Unpaid Work Found Unlawful
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 08:34 AM

I'm suggesting nothing of the sort Peter. You obviously are not the 'average' Jobseeker. Not many of these people have worked for twenty years and contributed as you have done. I spent hours down at the Jobcentre in Norwich with various ex-offenders sorting out their forms etc as the Probation Service seemed unable to do much. The people I saw there were mostly young, trailing a couple of dogs around and reeking of skunk. They had mobile phones at the ready to contact their dealers or receive drug orders from clients. They were unkempt, stoned and if anyone had offered to employ them they'd have needed their head examined. The women were young but instead of dogs they trailed babies around and passed the time smoking like chimneys at the door, flaunting hideous tattoos and shouting obscenities at passing lowlife they recognised. If your local Jobcentre is however patronised by clean, well-mannered and dog- and baby-free clients, I congratulate you.

Subject: RE: BS: Compulsory Unpaid Work Found Unlawful
From: DMcG
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 08:30 AM

I am indeed stereotyping average benefit claimant as a lazy waster. Because they are.

That use of the word 'average' allow you to dodge things, you know. So let's take a specific example. My daughter is on Jobseeker's at the moment, but is also on the lists of a significant number of as-and-when-needed positions. Last weekend she travelled for 4h to do a job lasting 1 hour with a net gain of £5. This weekend she is travelling a similar amount to the same place, but will actually be approximately £3 worse off, but she is doing so to ensure her name stays on the list. On occasions, she has worked for seven companies in the same week, once ending up with 4 jobs on the same day.

She is far from unique, in my experience.