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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza From: beardedbruce Date: 28 Feb 13 - 09:21 AM sorry.. "making sure that popularly supported views are not challenged or unpopular posters ARE NOT allowed to defend themselves." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza From: Jim Carroll Date: 28 Feb 13 - 09:16 AM Keith I have ended our altercation on the other thread - and have given my reasons for doing so. I would be grateful if you didn't restart our differences here and **** up this thread, thus allowing this discussion to proceed unpolluted. Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza From: beardedbruce Date: 28 Feb 13 - 08:52 AM Keith, Regardless of whether I agree with someone, they have the right to post as they wish- and earn the consequences of their posts. Even GregF should be able to post as he wishes- MY complaints are the censorship of the mudelves that remove the responses, making sure that popularly supported views are not challenged or unpopular posters allowed to defend themselves. Thus, EVERY post should stand, or NONE of them- Either allow free speech, or shut this whole board down. IMHO, of course. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 28 Feb 13 - 08:16 AM You did have one deleted from the "Israel Condemned" thread Jim. The gratuitously offensive "mind your own f*****g business" post, remember? Love you, keith. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza From: Jim Carroll Date: 28 Feb 13 - 04:28 AM Joe; "there are NO deleted messages in this thread." I sent off a long post concerning the forced re-settlement of Bedouins on to a toxic site, It didn't appear. I usually check that it had landed - I didn't on this occasion. Sometimes messages I send don't arrive, which is almost certainly my own fault; almost certainty the case here. I apologise if I've offended you or anybody - I was niggled because of the time I put into the post and knee-jerked (again) an unbreakable it would seem. Love you Joe. Bill D. "Jim Carroll said a post of his was removed... This one?" Nope it was this one which I re-sent on the other thread (Israel condemned by UN - 13 Feb 13 - 03:59 AM) Thanks for asking though. Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 28 Feb 13 - 03:52 AM ""Explain why you aren't, Don."" OK Bruce! Because you can brush off criticism from those on the other side of the argument as being biased, but when your own side starts to criticise, you should examine your actions very carefully and not simply dismiss them as "self hating Jews", which is intrinsically a bigotted comment. SIMPLES! Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza From: Joe Offer Date: 28 Feb 13 - 03:34 AM I leave deletions and such to the Anonymous Moderation Team nowadays, so you people no longer have reason to hate me; but I can tell you this: there are NO deleted messages in this thread. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 28 Feb 13 - 01:34 AM "An Egyptian security official says authorities have confiscated two pick-up trucks carrying 60 anti-tank missiles" I'd love to see the tunnel that load came through - the Mersey Tunnel maybe?? Unless, who knows, they planned to UNLOAD the trucks? Everyone of the thousands of missiles fired into Israel passed through the tunnels Jim. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza From: bobad Date: 27 Feb 13 - 06:58 PM Touché! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza From: Bill D Date: 27 Feb 13 - 06:24 PM Jim Carroll said a post of his was removed... This one? From: Jim Carroll Date: 14 Feb 13 - 08:29 AM I seldom read this thread anymore because of the intransigent positions of BOTH sides, but those of you who do need to be careful about who you accuse of what. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza From: GUEST,999 Date: 27 Feb 13 - 06:08 PM Lemme get this straight. Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza and it's Israel's fault. OK, so if the Chunnel is closed by France we blame Scotland, right? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza From: GUEST,999 Date: 27 Feb 13 - 06:04 PM Explain why you aren't, Don. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 27 Feb 13 - 05:48 PM ""Learn to read... "from Marsa Matrouh, 430 kilometers (270 miles) northwest of the capital on the Mediterranean Coast,*** TO **** the largely lawless Sinai Peninsula where weapons are regularly smuggled *** TO *** Palestinian militant groups in the Gaza Strip through underground tunnels.""" Explain to me just why you apologists for the Israeli government's actions are so ready to believe an anonymous ""Egyptian security official"", while talking down the statements of Israeli soldiers, Israeli Human Rights organisations and Israeli political opposition, and a Jewish nurse, along with foreign medical personnel working in understaffed, under equipped and bomb damaged (by Israel) hospitals within Gaza. It seems an immoderately one sided viewpoint, in which supporters of Israel are more prepared to accept the word of Muslims, than of their own people, as long as those Muslims are not Palestinian. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza From: beardedbruce Date: 27 Feb 13 - 01:27 PM Learn to read... "from Marsa Matrouh, 430 kilometers (270 miles) northwest of the capital on the Mediterranean Coast,*** TO **** the largely lawless Sinai Peninsula where weapons are regularly smuggled *** TO *** Palestinian militant groups in the Gaza Strip through underground tunnels." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza From: Jim Carroll Date: 27 Feb 13 - 01:24 PM "An Egyptian security official says authorities have confiscated two pick-up trucks carrying 60 anti-tank missiles" I'd love to see the tunnel that load came through - the Mersey Tunnel maybe?? It needs to be remembered that the reason for flooding the tunnel given by the present Egyptian regime has been contradicted by a far more logical explanation offered by 'The Egyptian Independent' - journal demanding that the regime lives up to the promises of The Arab Spring. Anyway - Hamas seems to have disappeared off the stage as a possible suspect. Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza From: beardedbruce Date: 27 Feb 13 - 01:05 PM CAIRO (AP) -- An Egyptian security official says authorities have confiscated two pick-up trucks carrying 60 anti-tank missiles smuggled across the border from Libya. The official says two truck drivers were arrested and the weapons seized just south of Cairo on Wednesday morning. The two were heading from Marsa Matrouh, 430 kilometers (270 miles) northwest of the capital on the Mediterranean Coast, to the largely lawless Sinai Peninsula where weapons are regularly smuggled to Palestinian militant groups in the Gaza Strip through underground tunnels. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to the press. Lawlessness has been rife in Sinai since the ouster of longtime ruler Hosni Mubarak in February 2011. Weapons have flowed from Libya into the peninsula, where Islamist militants have grown in strength. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza From: Jim Carroll Date: 26 Feb 13 - 02:52 AM Thank you Bruce - Likewise I do not agree with much of what you have to say, but at least you appear to have some fore-knowledge of the subject and are making an effort to provide facts rather than making them up as you go along, unlike..... Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza From: beardedbruce Date: 25 Feb 13 - 03:07 PM Jim, I disagree with much of what you post, but the "mud elves" should not be removing posts. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza From: Jim Carroll Date: 25 Feb 13 - 03:00 PM I have had my reply to Keith's claim that the site proposed by the Israelis for the forcible removal of the Bedouins was not toxic removed by the forum fairy (presumably) I do hope that this is not censorship. I will reply tomorrow in the hope that it is not removed again. Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza From: beardedbruce Date: 25 Feb 13 - 09:02 AM Since Don continues to discuss this on the other thread... "CAIRO (Reuters) - Egypt will not tolerate a two-way flow of smuggled arms with the Gaza Strip that is destabilizing its Sinai peninsula, a senior aide to its Islamist president said, explaining why Egyptian forces flooded sub-border tunnels last week. The network of tunnels has been a lifeline for some 1.7 million Palestinians in Gaza, bringing in an estimated 30 percent of all goods that reach the enclave and circumventing a blockade imposed by Israel for more than seven years. But Essam Haddad, national security adviser to President Mohamed Mursi told Reuters in an interview: "We don't want to see these tunnels used for illegal ways of smuggling either people or weapons that can really harm Egyptian security." He said that under a deal brokered by Cairo to end fighting in November between Israel and the Hamas movement that rules the Gaza Strip, the Israeli stranglehold on the coastal territory had been considerably relaxed. Egypt has eased border controls to allow in construction materials, notably from Qatar. "Now we can say that the borders are open to a good extent - it could still be improved - and the needs of the Gazan people are allowed in. Building materials are allowed in for the first time," Haddad said. "And on the other side, we would not like to see arms smuggled through these tunnels either in or out, because we are now seeing in Sinai and we have captured actually across Egypt heavy arms that could be used in a very dangerous way." Sixteen Egyptian border guards were killed last August in a militant attack in Sinai near the Gaza fence that shocked Egyptians and highlighted lawlessness in the desert region adjoining Israel and the Gaza Strip. Cairo said some of those gunmen had crossed into Egypt via the Gaza tunnels - an accusation denied by the Palestinians. Dozens of tunnels have been destroyed since that incident. Last Friday, Egypt said it had seized two tons of explosives hidden in a truck carrying a shipment of fruit and vegetables bound for Sinai. In January, Egypt seized six anti-aircraft and anti-tank rockets in the peninsula that smugglers may have intended to send to Gaza. http://news.yahoo.com/egypt-flooded-tunnels-cut-gaza-arms-flow-aide-170204594.html |
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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza From: Jim Carroll Date: 15 Feb 13 - 04:34 PM Hiding behind the six million Holocaust victims and by doing so, implicating the dead of Auschwitz and Belsen with Israel's war crimes and human rights abuses has now become one of the worst displays of Antisemitism I've ever come across. You should all be proud. Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza From: Jim Carroll Date: 15 Feb 13 - 01:03 PM And we have our own brand of 'deniers' here who deny the facts of documented Israeli atrocities and war crimes. Like someone else among us - it is meaningless to justify one dishonest (or terrorist) act by pointing at another, or we would condone all inhuman acts by pointing at Nazi Germany as being "worse". Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza From: pdq Date: 15 Feb 13 - 12:43 PM Gulf News is based in Dubai and it is not exactly unbiased or pro-Israel. "On January 4, 2009, the paper published an article by Dr Mohammad Abdullah Al Mutawa, a professor of sociology at UAE University Al Ain which stated that the Nazi 'holocaust was a mere lie devised by Zionists to blackmail humanity.' It continued, 'It is evident that the holocaust was a conspiracy hatched by the Zionists and Nazis, and many innocent people gave their lives as a result of this inhuman plot.'" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 15 Feb 13 - 11:31 AM Read the whole story Bruce. It's a diplomatic sop to Turkey to improve their relationship with Israel after a bunch of Turks were killed running the blockade of Gaza. It is certainly not being done for Gaza's benefit, where there wouldn't be a hospital, if Palestinians hadn't smuggled the materials in and built it. So, you give the Israelis a pat on the back if you wish. I'll stick to exposing the real, self serving reasons for almost every action of theirs. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza From: GUEST,999 Date: 15 Feb 13 - 08:27 AM "February 13, 2013: Israel okays Turkish convoy with Gaza supplies" from http://gulfnews.com/news/region/palestinian-territories/israel-okays-turkish-convoy-with-gaza-supplies-1.1145850 |
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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 15 Feb 13 - 08:27 AM THIS IS A MESSAGE FOR KEITH A OF HERTFORD!!!!! Just in case you might miss it as you have so many others, I have made this easy to find again. Since there was no attack upon Israeli territory or citizens, don't you find it rather odd that Israel and Egypt are working in parallel to totally isolate Gaza, by shutting down all tunnels, official or not, on both Egyptian and Israeli borders. Just what heinous act do you suppose Israel will use as an excuse? Keith, these are plain questions to which I expect genuine answers!.....Go on man, try something NEW!. ""You are wrong"", or similar are not acceptable answers, unless you can show evidence as to why that is the case. Don T. You were wrong Don. I was not being "devious", I was being wholly accurate. I was not the "fuckwit." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 15 Feb 13 - 08:09 AM It appears that the BBC item which I thought stated that Israel had closed the border, was a misunderstanding on my part. It was in fact a report about Israelis shooting Palestinians who came too close to the border. The Israelis, predictably, claimed that these people were trying to damage the fence. With bare hands and in insufficient numbers to use weight! They were lucky! Two shot, one in the chest and one in the hand. Others have been less so. The following is an account of what Israeli troops are being allowed to do by their superiors in government, in spite of the illegality of most of these actions. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jan/28/palestinian-deaths-israel-army-live-fire You will note that this is from Israeli sources, by way of The Guardian, that well known antisemitic (NOT) Newspaper. For your benefit Keith, this was dated 28th January 2013. Relevant enough? Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 15 Feb 13 - 08:01 AM You have been posting on the other thread Don. Now come clean on this one. Israel has closed all official access to Gaza from Israel. You did make that up. Right? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 14 Feb 13 - 10:04 PM I referred to two kinds of border crossing, official and tunnels. No. You just said tunnels. Israel has closed all official access to Gaza from Israel. You have just made that up Don. Israel is not involved in any of this. It is purely an issue between Egypt and Gaza. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 14 Feb 13 - 08:48 PM ""Israel has done nothing, in parallel or otherwise. Also, there are no tunnels on the Israeli border. Just what heinous act do you suppose Israel will use as an excuse? It has not done anything so needs no excuse."" Devious as ever Keith. I referred to two kinds of border crossing, official and tunnels. Israel has closed all official access to Gaza from Israel. Egypt has closed both official crossings and secret tunnels. Egypt's excuse is the skirmish on the Gaza border, which they believe may have been the responsibility of Hamas, while the Muslim Brotherhood has, as you yourself reported, blamed Mossad. The FACT is that Gaza has been locked down by Egypt and Israel acting, if not in concert, certainly at the same time. Since Israel was not a victim of the alleged attack which caused the Egyptian response, just what do you suppose was the reason (or excuse) for Israel mirroring the Egyptian response? You have charged, tried and convicted Hamas, and would doubtless be happy to watch the execution, BUT ON WHAT EVIDENCE? Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza From: GUEST,999 Date: 14 Feb 13 - 03:49 PM "We're going to Spain for our holidays so we're OK!!!" Now, THAT'S a relief. Gonna tunnel in from Gib? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza From: Bonzo3legs Date: 14 Feb 13 - 01:33 PM We're going to Spain for our holidays so we're OK!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza From: Jim Carroll Date: 14 Feb 13 - 11:33 AM Ho hum!!! Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 14 Feb 13 - 10:22 AM Reply to Don. missed as you have so many others I have missed nothing Don. You made that up. don't you find it rather odd that Israel and Egypt are working in parallel to totally isolate Gaza, by shutting down all tunnels, official or not, on both Egyptian and Israeli borders. Israel has done nothing, in parallel or otherwise. Also, there are no tunnels on the Israeli border. Just what heinous act do you suppose Israel will use as an excuse? It has not done anything so needs no excuse. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 14 Feb 13 - 09:41 AM ""Once again the Israelis have caused a problem. Many here feel it's to do with Hamas and Egypt, but we know that if it wasn't for the existence of Israel then North Korea would not have tested their third nuclear device. OK, so that's a bit off topic, but it falls in line with about 85% of the posts to this thread so far. Next, how Israel caused the Krakatoa eruption of 1883. Stay tuned."" Since I know that you are normally a fair minded man Bruce, I'm both surprised and disappointed if that post applies to those of us who are trying to keep some semblance of balance, or have you also given up on the concept that there are two sides to every story, and it is wrong to allow only one to be told? Don T |
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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 14 Feb 13 - 09:33 AM THIS IS A MESSAGE FOR KEITH A OF HERTFORD!!!!! Just in case you might miss it as you have so many others, I have made this easy to find again. Since there was no attack upon Israeli territory or citizens, don't you find it rather odd that Israel and Egypt are working in parallel to totally isolate Gaza, by shutting down all tunnels, official or not, on both Egyptian and Israeli borders. Just what heinous act do you suppose Israel will use as an excuse? Keith, these are plain questions to which I expect genuine answers!.....Go on man, try something NEW!. ""You are wrong"", or similar are not acceptable answers, unless you can show evidence as to why that is the case. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza From: GUEST,999 Date: 14 Feb 13 - 09:31 AM Once again the Israelis have caused a problem. Many here feel it's to do with Hamas and Egypt, but we know that if it wasn't for the existence of Israel then North Korea would not have tested their third nuclear device. OK, so that's a bit off topic, but it falls in line with about 85% of the posts to this thread so far. Next, how Israel caused the Krakatoa eruption of 1883. Stay tuned. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 14 Feb 13 - 09:19 AM ""Do you know more than The Muslim Brotherhood government of Egypt Jim?"" Would that be the same Muslim Brotherhood which is blaming Mossad in the following extract from your own Wiki post, earlier today? ""The Muslim Brotherhood released a statement calling on the government to "confront this serious challenge to the Egyptian sovereignty" as well as to "protect Sinai from all armed groups."[44] The party also claimed on its website that the attack "can be attributed to the Mossad", Israel's intelligence service, in an effort to destabilize the government, which the Israeli foreign ministry denied as "nonsense."[45]"" As I said, two equally credible possibilities, but even when you yourself post the evidence that there are two, you then go on to deny it. You are so incredibly biased that you cannot even see what is wrong with your viewpoint, but you aren't alone in that. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 14 Feb 13 - 09:02 AM ""They closed the Gaza tunnels."" Which could just as easily be the desired result of a Mossad inspired action! The point is that there simply isn't anything in the way of evidence which would sway a court of law, so while I am saying that there are two equally credible and equally unproveable explanations, your bias has already decided for you that there is only one. Pathetic. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza From: Greg F. Date: 14 Feb 13 - 08:56 AM Idiots that consistently use Blog-O-Pedia as an authoritative source ought to be ignored out of hand. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza From: Jim Carroll Date: 14 Feb 13 - 08:29 AM "Egypt closed the tunnels." The Egyptian military closed the tunnels, as they said they would at the time. As far as the Government is concerned, I seem to have read somewhere that it is under some pressure for going back on its promises following the Arab Spring revolution. I also seem to remember you being severely critical of Egypt for its lack of democracy, its lack of support for Palestinians and its treatment of Bedouins - yet here you go, presenting them as paragons of democracy, fair play and honesty. Funny old world (not to mention strange bedfellows)!! "I expect more has been learned over the last seven months" If you have any evidence that implicates Hamas in the killings, please put it up - I promise I'll read it. Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 14 Feb 13 - 08:16 AM I expect more has been learned over the last seven months. Egypt closed the tunnels. Do you know more than The Muslim Brotherhood government of Egypt Jim? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza From: Jim Carroll Date: 14 Feb 13 - 07:38 AM More information for you not to read Jim Carroll Christian Science Monitor "The Supreme Council of the Armed Forces remains at least as powerful a political player in Egypt as the elected president, and today, military officials told the Egyptian press they'd be sending teams to destroy the Gaza tunnels, insisting that the security breach entirely emanated from the strip. Will they follow through? And what will Morsi do when the inevitable claims of a humanitarian crisis in Gaza emerge? We'll see. For the moment, his promise to ease the restrictions on Gaza is a dead letter. And Egypt's generals have a new tool to use in cementing their own political power. In Gaza, the effects of the attack were immediate. Not only did Israel and Egypt close the official border crossings, but Hamas immediately responded by closing the smuggling tunnels into Egypt to assist in looking for surviving attackers (most of them appeared to have been killed by Israeli forces). Local residents were anxious about food and fuel shortages, and angry over the attack, which buried any chances of Egypt substantially easing its end of the blockade any time soon. The cui bono thinking that's inevitable after events like these leads to very few potential winners. Who's involved? The attack was almost certainly carried out by jihadis, who have long operated in the Sinai, where sophisticated smuggling groups, a local population that resents central government authority, and a sparse population give them plenty of room to operate. But in Gaza, as on the Egyptian side of the border at Rafah, there was fury at the attacks, which both Egypt and Israel claimed involved militants who had crossed into Egypt from Gaza. JUDGING BY THE HISTORY OF ATTACKS, EGYPTIANS WILL ALMOST CERTAINLY HAVE BEEN INVOLVED AS WELL." http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Backchannels/2012/0807/With-16-Egyptian-soldiers-murdered-Sinai-is-front-and-center-for-President-Morsi Christian Science Monitor again "Israel and Egypt have closed their official border crossings with Gaza until further notice, and Egyptian and Hamas officials have shut down the hundreds of tunnels that are used to smuggle food, fuel, and construction materials to the Israel-blockaded seaside territory because Egypt believes that the gunmen tried to escape into Gaza through them." http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2012/0806/Sinai-attack-seals-up-Gaza-to-outside-world-video "The funeral ceremonies were disrupted by PRO-MILITARY HECKLERS" (Your "angry mourners" I believe J.C."who chanted slogans against President Mohammed Morsi of Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood and Gaza's Hamas rulers." http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57488629/16-egyptian-soldiers-killed-in-sinai-buried/ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 14 Feb 13 - 07:34 AM They closed the Gaza tunnels. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 14 Feb 13 - 06:26 AM ""Hamas has not been implicated in these killings Yes they have. Read the Wiki piece I just posted. That is why Egypt is blocking the tunnels."" First it's an "unnamed senior Egyptian intelligence officer", then an "anonymous Egyptian General", and finally that fount of highly accurate information, Wikipedia. There are also allegations about the likely involvement of Mossad,which of course are denied by Israel. On seeing those statements side by side, you Keith automatically believe whatever Israel says, and apparently prefer the word of anonymous sources and a website to which, if I wished, I could post that I had been personally visited by the tooth fairy. You claim to have a "balanced" point of view?....Only if you spell that word "B-I-A-S-E-D". You mentioned the firing of mortars during the border kerfuffle. If you were a border guard, and somebody started a gunfight right at the border, might you not assume that your post was being attacked and carry out your duty to defend it by opening fire? NO! What am I thinking of? Of course you wouldn't, not without Israeli approval. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 14 Feb 13 - 04:38 AM Jerualem Post today. Dozens of tunnels had been destroyed since last August following the killing of 16 Egyptian soldiers in a militant attack near the Gaza fence. Cairo said some of the gunmen had crossed into Egypt via the tunnels - a charge denied by Palestinians - and ordered an immediate crackdown. The move surprised and angered Gaza's rulers, the Islamist group Hamas, which had hoped for much better ties with Cairo following the election last year of Egyptian President Mohamed Mursi, an Islamist who is ideologically close to Hamas. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 14 Feb 13 - 04:16 AM Hamas has not been implicated in these killings Yes they have. Read the Wiki piece I just posted. That is why Egypt is blocking the tunnels. (The rest of your post is complete bollocks too) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza From: Jim Carroll Date: 14 Feb 13 - 03:55 AM "utterly irrelevant issues." A last word on attempts to censor this forum and then an end. Despite Bruce's claims to the contrary, the subject of this thread is not "Hamas". Hamas has not been implicated in these killings, the suggestion has been made that Al Qaeda was responsible - I read it on the Jerusalem Post' site. It is as likely that Mossad engineered the killings, they have far more to gain than do Hamas (not making this as a serious suggestion, just pointing out that it is the suggestion of you pair that Hamas was in any way involved. So using your own logic, to bring them into the discussion is 'thread drift'. On the other hand, should the blocking of the tunnels bring about an end to the Palestinian siege in Israel's favour it is quite likely that the population of Gaza will become refugees, and we all (or most of us) are aware of Israel's reputation regarding the treatment of civilians, refugees in particular. Israel's persistent attempts to illegally annex Palestinian land and dominate its economy and way of life, and the lengths they are prepared to go to in order to do so lies at the heart of all these discussions and will inevitably be raised whenever the subject comes up. Both Keith and Bruce have used 'thread drift' to take these discussions wherever they choose, yet it is they who constantly make it as an accusation to prevent discussions from exposing 'awkward' facts - they attempt to manipulate threads to their own ends. These threads will go wherever people choose to take them - as Keith once said after he had persistently complained about thread drifts and then had then drifted way off topic "thread drifts happen' (I think it was when he was defending the use of chemical weapons on civilians). Both Keith and Bruce have reputations of championing 'extreme' extremist causes and constantly use this forum to promote their views - censorship is one of the greatest weapons of extremism. Attempts to manipulate threads in favour of any particular point of view and away from awkward facts is censorship in the extreme and goes against the much appreciated (by some of us) democratic nature of this forum SO STOP DOING IT - NOW - it is every contributor to this thread who will decide what is relevant and irrelevant, not a pair of extremists! The end - I hope! Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 14 Feb 13 - 03:51 AM From Wiki. The (Egyptian)army said that "elements" in the Gaza Strip helped the perpetrators by firing mortars during the attack.[15] The daily al-Youm al-Saba'a quoted a senior Egyptian security official, who said that Islamic Jihad militants from Gaza and global jihad (Jihad al-Alami) fighters from Egypt perpetrated the attack.[16] CNN cited anonymous 'Egyptian general' who said the Hamas breakaway group 'Al-Galgala Army' is behind the border attack .[43] The MENA news agency said that the attackers were jihadists who had "infiltrated from Gaza through tunnels," and had collaborated with "jihadist elements."[15] The Muslim Brotherhood released a statement calling on the government to "confront this serious challenge to the Egyptian sovereignty" as well as to "protect Sinai from all armed groups."[44] The party also claimed on its website that the attack "can be attributed to the Mossad", Israel's intelligence service, in an effort to destabilize the government, which the Israeli foreign ministry denied as "nonsense."[45] On 7 August, at a funeral for the soldiers who were killed, Prime Minister Hesham Qandil was assaulted and attacked by angry mourners, who also vandalized his car. In addition, Kandil was pelted with shoes, while some angry mourners chanted, "The Brotherhood and Hamas are one dirty hand."[47] |
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Subject: RE: BS: Egypt shuts down tunnels to Gaza From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 13 Feb 13 - 07:55 PM ""But, alternatively, could it not reduce a big reason (excuse) that Israel has used to justify isolation-agression against Gaza? That could increase international pressure on Israel to open up it's borders to allow access for provisions for the citizens?"" What international pressure Ed? The only pressure applied to Israel, by the UN, is routinely vetoed by the United States of America, with somewhat disgusting support from the successive governments of my own country. Anything that Israel does, no matter how vile, is overlooked by those with guilt feelings about the treatment of Jews in WW2, despite the fact that the miscreants are not the ordinary Jewish citizens of Israel, but rather the vicious Zionist fanatics who control Israel's government and seem to feel justified in getting their own back for that treatment by bashing their neighbours, who had nothing to do with it. Don T. |
