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BS: who will be next pope

The Sandman 13 Feb 13 - 02:34 PM
Rapparee 13 Feb 13 - 02:48 PM
mg 13 Feb 13 - 03:24 PM
Dorothy Parshall 13 Feb 13 - 03:28 PM
bobad 13 Feb 13 - 03:33 PM
mg 13 Feb 13 - 03:44 PM
mg 13 Feb 13 - 03:47 PM
akenaton 13 Feb 13 - 04:13 PM
mg 13 Feb 13 - 04:41 PM
catspaw49 13 Feb 13 - 05:14 PM
number 6 13 Feb 13 - 05:19 PM
catspaw49 13 Feb 13 - 05:32 PM
Ed T 13 Feb 13 - 05:38 PM
greg stephens 13 Feb 13 - 05:39 PM
Ed T 13 Feb 13 - 05:41 PM
McGrath of Harlow 13 Feb 13 - 07:25 PM
GUEST,mg 13 Feb 13 - 07:26 PM
Joe Offer 13 Feb 13 - 07:27 PM
catspaw49 13 Feb 13 - 07:34 PM
Ebbie 13 Feb 13 - 07:39 PM
gnu 13 Feb 13 - 07:42 PM
Joe Offer 13 Feb 13 - 07:46 PM
GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz 13 Feb 13 - 07:59 PM
GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz 13 Feb 13 - 08:11 PM
gnu 13 Feb 13 - 08:19 PM
Jeri 13 Feb 13 - 08:23 PM
Bobert 13 Feb 13 - 08:36 PM
Joe Offer 13 Feb 13 - 08:36 PM
Dorothy Parshall 13 Feb 13 - 09:32 PM
GUEST,mg 13 Feb 13 - 11:05 PM
McGrath of Harlow 13 Feb 13 - 11:34 PM
GUEST 14 Feb 13 - 01:59 AM
The Sandman 14 Feb 13 - 05:44 AM
GUEST,999 14 Feb 13 - 10:00 AM
selby 14 Feb 13 - 10:26 AM
GUEST,999 14 Feb 13 - 10:33 AM
Mrrzy 14 Feb 13 - 02:19 PM
GUEST,Musket sans cookie 14 Feb 13 - 02:35 PM
GUEST,mg 14 Feb 13 - 03:42 PM
GUEST,mg 14 Feb 13 - 03:59 PM
McGrath of Harlow 14 Feb 13 - 04:29 PM
Dead Horse 14 Feb 13 - 04:36 PM
GUEST,Jack Sprocket 14 Feb 13 - 06:29 PM
Ebbie 14 Feb 13 - 06:58 PM
gnu 14 Feb 13 - 07:08 PM
Elmore 14 Feb 13 - 07:56 PM
gnu 14 Feb 13 - 08:58 PM
Joe Offer 14 Feb 13 - 09:38 PM
The Sandman 15 Feb 13 - 03:58 AM
bubblyrat 15 Feb 13 - 07:15 AM
Ebbie 15 Feb 13 - 11:42 AM
Ed T 15 Feb 13 - 04:23 PM
Joe Offer 15 Feb 13 - 07:19 PM
Mike in Brunswick 16 Feb 13 - 12:15 AM
GUEST,Musket sans cookie 16 Feb 13 - 02:20 AM
Joe Offer 16 Feb 13 - 05:31 AM
MartinRyan 16 Feb 13 - 05:45 AM
gnu 16 Feb 13 - 07:14 AM
Ed T 16 Feb 13 - 08:22 AM
McGrath of Harlow 16 Feb 13 - 08:39 AM
Lighter 16 Feb 13 - 08:42 AM
Ed T 16 Feb 13 - 09:37 AM
Ed T 16 Feb 13 - 09:57 AM
Bonzo3legs 16 Feb 13 - 11:39 AM
Ed T 16 Feb 13 - 12:39 PM
gnu 16 Feb 13 - 01:58 PM
Ed T 16 Feb 13 - 02:04 PM
Ed T 16 Feb 13 - 02:06 PM
Ed T 16 Feb 13 - 02:19 PM
Ed T 16 Feb 13 - 02:31 PM
Mike in Brunswick 16 Feb 13 - 02:58 PM
gnu 16 Feb 13 - 05:05 PM
Bill D 16 Feb 13 - 06:34 PM
Joe Offer 17 Feb 13 - 04:07 AM
mg 17 Feb 13 - 05:22 AM
Bonzo3legs 17 Feb 13 - 05:33 AM
Ed T 17 Feb 13 - 10:34 AM
McGrath of Harlow 17 Feb 13 - 12:58 PM
gnu 17 Feb 13 - 02:22 PM
The Sandman 17 Feb 13 - 06:17 PM
mg 17 Feb 13 - 06:23 PM
McGrath of Harlow 17 Feb 13 - 07:01 PM
gnu 17 Feb 13 - 10:58 PM
Joe Offer 18 Feb 13 - 02:43 AM
GUEST,Shimrod 18 Feb 13 - 04:24 PM
Ed T 18 Feb 13 - 05:00 PM
GUEST,mg 18 Feb 13 - 05:04 PM
McGrath of Harlow 18 Feb 13 - 05:30 PM
GUEST,mg 18 Feb 13 - 06:29 PM
gnu 18 Feb 13 - 07:03 PM
McGrath of Harlow 18 Feb 13 - 08:13 PM
Joe Offer 18 Feb 13 - 09:40 PM
Bert 18 Feb 13 - 10:09 PM
Bert 18 Feb 13 - 10:16 PM
Joe Offer 18 Feb 13 - 10:17 PM
McGrath of Harlow 19 Feb 13 - 02:15 PM
olddude 19 Feb 13 - 02:32 PM
Ebbie 20 Feb 13 - 02:20 PM
Bill D 20 Feb 13 - 03:28 PM
McGrath of Harlow 20 Feb 13 - 03:37 PM
Bill D 20 Feb 13 - 07:18 PM
McGrath of Harlow 20 Feb 13 - 08:18 PM
Ed T 25 Feb 13 - 04:28 PM
The Sandman 25 Feb 13 - 05:06 PM
akenaton 25 Feb 13 - 05:21 PM
GUEST,mg 25 Feb 13 - 08:33 PM
GUEST,999 26 Feb 13 - 02:22 AM
The Sandman 26 Feb 13 - 03:33 AM
GUEST,999 26 Feb 13 - 05:11 AM
GUEST,mg 26 Feb 13 - 02:59 PM
GUEST,mg 26 Feb 13 - 03:04 PM
kendall 27 Feb 13 - 02:42 PM
GUEST,mg 27 Feb 13 - 03:28 PM
McGrath of Harlow 27 Feb 13 - 05:03 PM
GUEST,999 27 Feb 13 - 05:46 PM
GUEST,mg 27 Feb 13 - 06:27 PM
Bill D 27 Feb 13 - 06:34 PM
GUEST,mg 27 Feb 13 - 07:17 PM
Bobert 27 Feb 13 - 07:34 PM
McGrath of Harlow 27 Feb 13 - 07:36 PM
GUEST,999 27 Feb 13 - 10:01 PM
Joe Offer 28 Feb 13 - 03:42 AM
Wilfried Schaum 28 Feb 13 - 07:27 AM
GUEST,Roger Knowles 28 Feb 13 - 10:57 AM
Bill D 28 Feb 13 - 11:11 AM
McGrath of Harlow 28 Feb 13 - 02:26 PM
The Sandman 28 Feb 13 - 05:36 PM
GUEST,jaze 28 Feb 13 - 07:39 PM
GUEST,999 28 Feb 13 - 09:03 PM
mg 06 Mar 13 - 03:34 AM
GUEST,mg 06 Mar 13 - 07:53 PM
McGrath of Harlow 06 Mar 13 - 08:21 PM
mg 06 Mar 13 - 10:10 PM
mg 06 Mar 13 - 10:34 PM
Joe Offer 07 Mar 13 - 01:08 AM
mg 07 Mar 13 - 02:21 AM
Jim Carroll 07 Mar 13 - 02:54 AM
Joe Offer 07 Mar 13 - 04:49 AM
Jim Carroll 07 Mar 13 - 05:08 AM
Jim Carroll 07 Mar 13 - 11:20 AM
GUEST,mg 07 Mar 13 - 02:22 PM
gnu 12 Mar 13 - 04:19 PM
Songwronger 12 Mar 13 - 10:20 PM
mg 12 Mar 13 - 11:45 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 13 Mar 13 - 12:48 AM
ChanteyLass 13 Mar 13 - 08:59 PM
GUEST,999 14 Mar 13 - 04:57 PM
GUEST 15 Mar 13 - 04:05 PM

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Subject: BS: who will be next pope
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 02:34 PM

Angelo Scola (Italy)         7/2
        
Cardinal Raymond Burke (United States)         40/1
        
Cardinal Thomas Collins (Canada)         80/1
Cardinal Peter Turkson (Ghana)         4/1
        
Cardinal Timothy Dolan (USA)         40/1
        
Archbishop Diarmuid Martin         100/1
Cardinal Marc Ouellet (Canada)         4/1
        
Cardinal Dionigi Tettamanzi (Italy)         50/1
        
Cardinal Angelo Sodano (Italy)         100/1
Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone (Italy)         5/1
        
Cardinal Andre Vingt-Trois(France)         50/1
        
Cardinal William Levada (United States)         100/1
Cardinal Odilo Scherer (Brazil)         8/1
        
Cardinal Robert Sarah (French Guinea)         50/1
        
Archbishop Gerhard Ludwig Muller (Germany)         100/1
Cardinal Oscar Rodriguez Maradiaga (Honduras)         10/1
        
Archbishop Vincent Nichols (England)         50/1
        
Cardinal Karl Lehmann (Germany)         100/1
Cardinal Francis Arinze (Nigeria)         10/1
        
Cardinal Philippe Barbarin (France)         50/1
        
Cardinal Ivan Dias (India)         100/1
Cardinal Leonardo Sandri (Argentina)         10/1
        
Cardinal Joao Braz de Aviz (Brazil)         50/1
        
Cardinal Daniel DiNardo (USA)         100/1
Cardinal Gianfranco Ravasi (Italy)         12/1
        
Cardinal Donald Wuerl (United States)         50/1
        
Cardinal Silvano Piovanelli (Italy)         100/1
Cardinal Angelo Bagnasco (Italy)         14/1
        
Cardinal Sean O'Malley (United States)         50/1
        
Cardinal Jose Da Cruz Policarpo (Portugal)         100/1
Cardinal Luis Antonio Tagle (Philippines)         18/1
        
Cardinal Keith O'Brien (Scotland)         50/1
        
Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O'Connor (UK)         150/1
Cardinal Christoph Schonborn (Austria)         20/1
        
Cardinal Wilfrid Napier (South Africa)         66/1
        
Cardinal Walter Kasper (Germany)         150/1
Cardinal Norberto Rivera Carrera (Mexico)         25/1
        
Cardinal Attilio Nicora (Italy)         66/1
        
Cardinal John Njue (Kenya)         150/1
Cardinal Mauro Piacenza (Italy)         33/1
        
Cardinal Crescenzio Sepe (Italy)         66/1
        
Cardinal Geraldo Majella Agnelo (Brazil)         150/1
Cardinal Peter Erdo (Hungary)         33/1
        
Cardinal George Pell (Australia)         66/1
        
Cardinal Giacomo Biffi (Italy)         150/1
Cardinal Claudio Hummes (Brazil)         33/1
        
Cardinal Agnostino Vallini (Italy)         66/1
        
Archbishop Nicolas de Jesus Lopez Rodriguez (Dominican Republic)         150/1
Archbishop Piero Marini (Italy)         33/1
        
Cardinal Julian Herranz Casado (Spain)         80/1
        
Cardinal Francis George (USA)         200/1
Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio (Argentina)         33/1
        
Cardinal Antonio Maria Rouco Varela (Spain)         80/1
        
Richard Dawkins (UK)         666/1
Cardinal Albert Malcolm Ranjith (Sri Lanka)         40/1
        
Cardinal Jaime Lucas Ortega y Alamino (Cuba)         80/1
        
Bono (Ireland)         1000/1
Cardinal Antonio Canizares Llovera (Spain)         40/1
        
Cardinal Angelo Amato (Italy)         80/1
        
Father Dougal Maguire (Craggy Island)         1000/1
Cardinal Juan Luis Cipriani Thorne (Peru)         40/1
        
        
        
        

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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 02:48 PM

I always thought Cardinal Jaime Sin of Manila would be a good choice -- a Cardinal Sin for Pope.

I'm in the running, but I want to continue married and not a priest, etc. The odds on me aren't very good.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: mg
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 03:24 PM

We must especially scrutinize the front runners for their abettment of child abusers..see Oulette..I think he is not totally clean..and also for any outcries against gays..Turkson allegedly has ties or has spoken or something about the African desire not just to forbid gays to marry..but to kill them. I do not want a pope who wants to kill gays or looks the other way when this is done, and I suppose, given everything else, it is being done.

I would like to have someone from developing world...but first and foremost he or she must be decent and honest. Archbishop Martin seems the best of the lot. I do not know enough about Schoenberg but he has taken on the pope and Sodano..whom Jason Barry has asked to be removed as the pope's last act.

I think knowing what I know right now Schoenberg seems the best plus Martin should be made cardinal this week. I wish we had a pope Sean O'Malley just for his name but I do not think he is clean in the abuse situation..I think almost none of them are frankly.

SNAP has told the world to watch for 3 cardinals who should not be made pope..one is in new york, one in honduras and one in Mexico.

Now is not the time to sit idly by, whether Catholic or whatever...now is the time to insist on decency first and foremost..adherence to the law, truthfulness, honesty in financial dealings..


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 03:28 PM

Considering that we have absolutely no input...

I may be the worst of iconoclasts but the pope is of no more consequence to me than any other human in the world - unless they should happen to choose one who actually makes a difference - who makes declarations that bring about peace and justice for all.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: bobad
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 03:33 PM

This guy?


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: mg
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 03:44 PM

on schonborn..some intelligent words..could we possibly have a Pope John Paul I do-over...

http://www.thetablet.co.uk/article/14678


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: mg
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 03:47 PM

I would also say someone who does not prance around in overly ornate costume....simplified versions such as Pope JP i wore, and actually, from pictures I ahve seen, Cardinal Mahoney. I am not against all pomp and tradition..I like it..and am pretty traditional..but google Cardinal Burke and his 20 foot train and wierd gloves etc.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: akenaton
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 04:13 PM

As an atheist, I say why dont you stand up for what you believe in.

It is a belief system based on faith, why do you want to secularise it to keep the media and the politicians happy? If you believe the story get up on your hind legs and tell the world....don't spend the rest of your lives apologising for what you believe in.

You lot dont deserve a Pope! You seem to care more about your personal popularity on an internet forum than your spiritual beliefs.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: mg
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 04:41 PM

We do deserve a pope, one who is honest and able and decent. I am not a spiritual person..I am fairly pragmatic. I was assigned to the Catholic religion and I will stay and fight the corruption and downright evil.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: catspaw49
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 05:14 PM

I was all for Joe Offer. He'd make a good Pope. He likes to travel, proud of being Catholic, still knows mass in Latin, likes to wear funny hats, and will look mighty fine in those red Wizard of Oz pumps. What else is required?

But then someone said that Queen Elizabeth might step down/abdicate/retire/whatever ta' fuck she does, in three years so now I'm thinking Joe would be a better Queen. Being a raging Queeen is right up Joe's alley!!!


Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: number 6
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 05:19 PM

"who will be next pope?"

hmmmmmm

let me see now



you know something


I really don't give a rat's ass who the next pope will be



biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: catspaw49
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 05:32 PM

Then sign on for Joe #6.....If all of us old timers go with Joe we might be able to puff smoke in the Vatican. Do you ever wonder what they might be smoking?


Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: Ed T
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 05:38 PM

"who will be next pope?"

Sounds like a good idea for the next reality TV program. But, who would be the host and celebrity judges?

Host: Sinéad O'Connor-Irish, formerly RC and entertaining (she will keep anty potential molesters at bay)..

Celebrity Judges:
Why not select from the actors who played "God" in movies (this site says there were 13 of them:

Actor-Gods


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: greg stephens
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 05:39 PM

Bear in mind that St Malachy prophesied that the next pope will be the last


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: Ed T
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 05:41 PM

(From the God actors, you can separate out those who are deceased, unless you have good Godly contacts) :)


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 07:25 PM

"allegedly has ties or has spoken or something"

That's a pretty comprehensive allegation...

I'm surprised no one has yet resurrected the old comment in such matters "Well, I don't know - but I bet it will be one of those Catholics".

It seems be generally understood that anyone who is hyped up as a favourite has very little likelihood of being chosen.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 07:26 PM

Sinead is a priest and has a lot to say recently. She is a very impressive woman and writes and speaks very well.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 07:27 PM

So, Spaw, if I'm elected Pope, I will declare (infallibly, of course), that the official Papal Garb will be blue jeans, a plaid wool shirt (to match my eyes), and a wool tweed Trilby hat.

Service to the poor, the homeless, the infirm, and the bereaved will be the primary religious obligation of every Catholic. Tolerance and respect for all, will be an absolute requirement.

Priests can be anyone (male, female, straight, gay, married - why should gender or sexual preference should have any bearing on selection of priests?) who feels the calling and is judged by a congregation to be a faith-filled person who speaks with wisdom and love and equity. Strict but reasonable controls will be instituted to protect parishioners from sexual offenses and financial chicanery.

Responsible family planning (and artificial birth control) will be encouraged, and Planned Parenthood will be declared an Official Ally of the Catholic Church, because that organization does more than any other to reduce the number of abortions - by reducing the number of unwanted pregnancies.

Divorced and remarried Catholics will be welcomed without restriction, although the ideal of lifetime marriage will be upheld.

Congregations (orders) of religious women (nuns) will be deemed equal in standing to congregations of religious men; and elected leaders of religious congregations will hold status equal to that of Cardinals, with authority to vote in papal elections.

Collaborative, collegial principles will be used in decision-making, as required by the Second Vatican Council.

Alliances will be sought with all religious and non-religious groups who see peace and brotherly love and tolerance as priorities.

Both liberal and conservative Catholics will be encouraged to celebrate liturgy (Mass) as they wish, even in Latin - with the caveat that condemnation of others is not compatible with true Christian faith.

And the prohibition of the condemnation of others, will be viewed as a primary tenet of the faith.

OK, so that's my platform. Vote for me.

Fr. Joe Sarducci (brother of Guido)


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: catspaw49
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 07:34 PM

But how do you feel about the job as Queen?

I luvya' JoeBro!


Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 07:39 PM

Too bad my vote doesn't count, Joe! We need you- or a JoeClone...


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: gnu
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 07:42 PM

Cardinal Marc Ouellet is a shoe-in! But, the Italian candidate is a contender.

But this is my choice... Bro of Joe.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 07:46 PM

Well, actually, Ebbie, Spaw is going to be Deputy Pope.....just to make things interesting.

Giuseppe Sarducci, Pontifex Maximus


My brother Guido had a lot of good things to say. He will be the first person I declare to be a saint.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 07:59 PM

The world can rest easier knowing that it probably won't be me.
And BTW bobad...Priceless!


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 08:11 PM

And, had he lived, a serious contender given some of the sentiments in this thread....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodney_Dangerfield


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: gnu
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 08:19 PM

Rodney is a hero of mine.

I went to a whorehouse yesterday at noon. There was s sign on the door. "Gone to lunch. Go fuck yourself."

He fits... hangin out with whores... son of a


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: Jeri
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 08:23 PM

Joe, hopefully SINSULL will watch that. I think she figured out the stuff about nuns already, though.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 08:36 PM

Hey, I like Joe but given the crap that the Catholic church has put so many people thru there is only one individual that I know of that the church truly deserves...































...Pope Chongz...

B;~)


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 08:36 PM

This Cardinal Ouelet of Canada, considered one of the frontrunners and the one favored by Benedict XVI - I wonder if we're related. Some of my ancestors are the Ouelettes of Windsor, Ontario. Their farm road became Ouelette Street, one of the main streets of Windsor - and the family farmhouse became a striptease joint, located next door to the bus station.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 09:32 PM

checking in and scrolling down, I thought Joe Offer would be a good pope. Then I saw his post and Joe Offer would be the best ever. Too bad he hasn't made it to cardinal. Maybe he could pass his thoughts along to the vatican.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 11:05 PM

do some serious checking of oulette's involvement in abuse scandal and some of the things he has said.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 11:34 PM

I see the Cuban Cardinal Jaime Ortega comes in as 80/1. Might be worth a flutter at those odds. He's been very critical of Capitalism as well as of Communism - and the Miami Cubans appear to detest him. And no reported sex abuse scandals in Cuba so far as I know.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 01:59 AM

Recession is biting at the English language - what used to be worth a King's ransom is now only worth a Pope's pension.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 05:44 AM

how about the cardinal from the phillipines, a possible outsider at 25 to one, generally speaking the bookies have it right and one need look no further than the first 3 or 4 in the betting.
scola turkson oulet, bertone, now paddy power are offering "If the cardinals elect the First Black Pope, we will refund all losing bets on the Next Pope market", Applies to single outright bets placed before 12.00pm Monday 18th Feb.

Max Refund e/£25 per customer/bet.

Applies to the next permanently appointed Pope after Benedict XVI

Only applies in the case of Peter Turkson, Francis Arinze and Wilfred Napier.

Refund applies to the Next Pope Outright market only, does not apply to any other related markets.

Paddy Power betting rules apply and Paddy Power s decision is final,         
does that meanthey think it will be turkson?


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: GUEST,999
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 10:00 AM

It would be cool to decide who the next pope is with a world-wide internet bingo game. Each Catholic receives four bingo cards. There are four games called, one game per card. The purpose is to spell out

P O P E

Sort of like spelling shell on a calculator with the numbers 77345 then turning it upside down and reading it--but different.

The world-wide name that pope bingo player winner [WWNTPBPW] would get to, well, name that pope.

I'm onto something here. Stay tuned . . . .


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: selby
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 10:26 AM

I am sorry to have to inform you that unfortunately the post has already been assigned to Tony Blair (ex UK Prime Minister) he is currently in conclave with that well known people person and pacifist George W Bush to take on the role as enforcer,sorry special responsibilities for peace in the world

Keith


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: GUEST,999
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 10:33 AM

As a bonus prize, if you make a cross -> + <- in the first eight numbers called you receive one bonus card that can be used for any letter. If you make an ex -> X <- your card is declared null and void and you're out of the contest.

I'd suggest that the Dalai Lama be the official caller and the Archbishop of Canterbury be given the franchise to sell Nevada tickets.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 02:19 PM

I kinda like Cardinal Sin for Pope.

But I was going to post this nice map of where the cardinals all are and which can vote etc.

I'd like to see a nonwhite pope now that we've had two nonitalians in a row...


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: GUEST,Musket sans cookie
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 02:35 PM

2/1 Joe Offer
5/1 An old bloke in a pointy hat
10/1 Shergar

Time to buy shares in Durex regardless


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 03:42 PM

I would love an African pope. I think one mentioned is past the age cutoff. There is one in Nigeria I know nothing about. THis Turkson needs to be totally investigated to see exactly what his support is of the "kill the gays" legislation in Uganda. He has had some defense of it. It is unclear to me exactly what his support is. But we need to see this as a huge warning light..a pope who at least indirectly endorses the killing of gays? It is too early in the game for me to know much so everyone I believe is obligated to search this out for themselves. It can not happen that he be made pope if it is true. Bad enough we had indirect killing of child abuse victims through their subsequent suicide..but direct killing? It is beyond belief.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 03:59 PM

Nigerian new cardinal...was nominated for NObel peace prize. I know nothing about him. Will google him tonight. If he is a decent honest man with no desire to kill anyone such as gays and an ability to sort out the mess and has no child abuse problems hidden in the wings..and I suspect Africa is absolutely full of them, as is French Canada by the way...I will totally support him if he is at least a moderate and somewhat sensible about birth control etc.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 04:29 PM

Cardinal Turkson comes from Ghana, which is a long way from Uganda. He might or might not have expressed views about that country, but than that applies equally to every cardinal, and indeed everyone.

If A is true than B is possibly true, which means that C is possibly true - and that would be terrible...


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: Dead Horse
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 04:36 PM

Ian Paisley.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: GUEST,Jack Sprocket
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 06:29 PM

I'd go for Joe Offer personally, he's got all the tick boxes, apart from being old (in cardinals' terms Joe's a sprogling)and vicious (unless Joe confesses that he was once in the McCarthy Youth).

But what does it matter who's Pope if he or she are:

legal - address historical abuse by (or condoned by) the church without holding back
truthful - admit it without reservation
decent- don't do it again.
honest - abolish the Holy Office (inquisition) and open up the archives unredacted.

And of course be open to accept real loving people in the world for what thay are.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 06:58 PM

If St. Malachy be accurate, the next pope will either have - or take - the name of Peter. :)


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: gnu
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 07:08 PM

The "frontrunner" as reported by some news sources is a black African... sounds like a cool dude to me. Talked to a relative earlier today and he said no way an African black man could get the nod... odd... pisses me off. But I didn't say that to him.

The only thing that matters is "goodness", right? Well, if that's the case, I am pretty sure the Canuck cited as in the top picks in the draft can skate and double up on defense so as long as The Cherry says he's the guy to lace up, I am pullin for him.

GO HABits!

Keep yer stick on the ice eh?


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: Elmore
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 07:56 PM

John xxiv.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: gnu
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 08:58 PM

Don Cherry is a snappy dresser and a bit more conservative in deportment so... Pope Don?


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 09:38 PM

I can't say I believe much in anything that attempts to foretell the future, but Wikipedia has an interesting article on the Prophecy of the Popes. The prophecy is attributed to St. Malachy of Ireland (1094-1148). It was published in 1595, after it was allegedly found in the Roman Archives. The list is amazingly accurate up to 1590, but its predictions after 1590 are a bit of a stretch. Ex post facto predictions usually have a high degree of accuracy.....

Duh.


-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Feb 13 - 03:58 AM

that leaves us with turkson or erdo


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: bubblyrat
Date: 15 Feb 13 - 07:15 AM

In the 1960s , I was on an aircraft carrier . In 1967 we got a new Captain . His name was Pope . He assumed command of the ship on Ascension Day !! ( Really !).


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: Ebbie
Date: 15 Feb 13 - 11:42 AM

But he didn't become the Pontiff, now did he? I never read of a Pope Pope...


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: Ed T
Date: 15 Feb 13 - 04:23 PM

The related Eastern Orthodox Church, officially called the Orthodox Catholic Church get's along quite fine without a pope - as the Anglican's do.

Why not cut costs and try doing without one for a few years, and see if one is really needed. After all, J Offer seems to often indicate their role is not that locally significant any more anyway (I also note Sinead O'Connor also seems to indicate a pope is not needed anymore).

BTW, an interesting interview of Sinead from 2010:

Sinead O'Connor


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Feb 13 - 07:19 PM

Well, the Eastern Orthodox Churches have patriarchs, and the lead patriarch is the Patriarch of Constantinople, head of the Greek Orthodox Church (although he's in Turkey). The Bishop of Rome is also the Patriarch of Rome, and was "first among equals" among the patriarchs until the split in 1054.

Even though Catholic parishes had a large degree of local autonomy, it's nice to have some sort of Prime Minister for the worldwide organization. The Second Vatican Council spelled out the principles of subsidiarity (decisions made at the lowest appropriate level) and collegiality (decisions made by consensus of equal colleagues). Most modern communities of nuns adhere to these principles very well, and it works very well for them. The "boys" aren't as willing to give up turf and adhere to these principles.

The Orthodox churches seem to be quite collegial in their style of management; but from what I've seen, they appear to be very much a "men's club," perhaps even more so than the Romans.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: Mike in Brunswick
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 12:15 AM

I thought it was Istanbul, not Constantinople. In any case, here's E. J. Dionne on the subject.

Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: GUEST,Musket sans cookie
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 02:20 AM

All this talk of not needing a Pope any more.

Anyone willing to make the next mental leap?


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 05:31 AM

Make the next mental leap? Actually, Musket, no.

It seems that far too many people who don't belong to the Catholic Church and have no idea what it's all about, want to abolish it.
One wonders why.

If people don't want to be Catholic, that's fine. If they want to destroy the Catholic Church, that's another matter. Every single human endeavor is seriously flawed. If we were to destroy every endeavor because of imperfections, what would be left?

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: MartinRyan
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 05:45 AM

If we were to destroy every endeavor because of imperfections, what would be left?

Or, more particularly, round here - what would there be left to be to the left of! ;>)>

Regards


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: gnu
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 07:14 AM

Joe... "it's nice to have some sort of Prime Minister"

You can have Stephen Harper. He THINKS he's the Pope.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: Ed T
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 08:22 AM

Comparing the Pope to a Prime minister is interesting. In the RC example it's is like having one Prime Minister for all democracies in the world (considering there are other religions and christian denominations). How much sense does that make? Not much IMO.

""Roman Catholics recognize the Pope as infallible in matters of doctrine and the Pope has supreme authority over all churches and can, for example, contradict or usurp the power of a lower-ranking church leader, such as a priest, bishop or cardinal. The Eastern Orthodox Church also has various bishops, with one being the highest-ranking bishop. Its highest-ranking bishop, or archbishop, is not considered to be infallible, nor does he have supreme authority over all of its congregations.""

In both churches important decisions are made on matters affecting the whole Church in an inclusive manner. In the RC church these decisions have been historically negated by the pope, and still can be overturned. This cannot happen in the Orthodox church under any circumstance. So, it seems to me that democracy is "more alive" in the Orthodox church. If RC s get a "head strong" pope, major actions could occur. A dfference-yes a huge one.

As to the role of women in bith churches,they both have it wrong in discriminating against the full involvement of women.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 08:39 AM

"I thought it was Istanbul, not Constantinople."

Same place. But the patriarchs go back to a long long time before the modern version of the name came to be used.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: Lighter
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 08:42 AM

All I know is that CNN showed lightning suddenly striking the dome of St. Peter's just a few hours after the Pope's announcement.

But he hasn't changed his mind about resigning.

Darn!


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: Ed T
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 09:37 AM

""CNN showed lightning suddenly striking the dome of St. Peter's just a few hours after the Pope's announcement""

If you believe in messages "from above" (which I am sure all do not), you should also be open to a variety of messages which could be intended.;)


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: Ed T
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 09:57 AM

An interesting perspective on popes and the future pope.


Pope Richard 1


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 11:39 AM

Perhaps it will be someone who will give a little rope, hopefully use soap, who will not grope and will not take dope, and as far as a lady pope is concerned - the answer is nope!!!!!!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: Ed T
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 12:39 PM

Some people have asked why non-RCs are interested in the pope?

I suspect for some it's the same reason as they are interested in celebrity folks who are in the spot light, like queens, kings and lesser titled, actors, entertainers, singers, artists, and entertaining leaders and business folks. Other well known religious folks, like the Dalai Lama likely also falls into this group.

The pope also commands over a church with a significant following which impacts some world affairs.

Since the RC church is historically related to other religions,there is some common ground. I suspect that stimulates some interest (just like USA folks have a historic link and interest in what is going on in England which is frequently more of a love hate relationship).

Some folks are possibly looking for a message or a sign of things to come from a religious leader, even though they are not of that faith.

Some folks dislike the RC church and the pope. To them, the pope is a symbol of something bad from the past (recent and far away), not something good. This stimulates interest to fuel negativity, not positive thoughts.

Just some thoughts.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: gnu
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 01:58 PM

Ed... I think someone else may have said that. >;-)

Ed... "Roman Catholics recognize the Pope as infallible in matters of doctrine and the Pope has supreme authority over all churches and can, for example, contradict or usurp the power of a lower-ranking church leader..."

Re "infallible". Hey, somebody has to make the final decisions and that is what the Boss gets paid to do. In this case, the Boss can only be fired by one guy and that guy is every Catholic in unison. As for Supreme Authority, it's kinda the same but localized and there are property issues.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: Ed T
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 02:04 PM

""Hey, somebody has to make the final decisions and that is what the Boss gets paid to do. In this case, the Boss can only be fired by one guy and that guy is every Catholic in unison. As for Supreme Authority, it's kinda the same but localized and there are property issues.""

gnu, I remind you of your frequent complaint of your current Prime Minister.LOL


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: Ed T
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 02:06 PM

""Ed... I think someone else may have said that. >;-)""

If it is worth saying once, it is worth saying again. Or, on Mudcat, again, and again and again.....
;)


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: Ed T
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 02:19 PM

""Hey, somebody has to make the final decisions and that is what the Boss gets paid to do. In this case, the Boss can only be fired by one guy and that guy is every Catholic in unison. As for Supreme Authority, it's kinda the same but localized and there are property issues.""

gnu, at least with Prime Ministers, there is some potential way to get rid of them (the bad ones) in a reasonable time frame. Unfortunately, death seems to be the most common route to rid the RC of bad popes. Which may be a main reason behind selecting the ones that are really old?   :)


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: Ed T
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 02:31 PM

""When someone in a position of power, and sugnificant trust, reaches an advanced age -for example 80+, the concern should not be about the decisions they make, but who is making the decisions for them.""
Quote Ed.T


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: Mike in Brunswick
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 02:58 PM

"Same place. But the patriarchs go back to a long long time before the modern version of the name came to be used."

I was referring to the popular song of the 1950s. The one that ends with "Why did Constantinople get the works? That's nobody's business but the Turks."

Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: gnu
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 05:05 PM

Ed.... "Which may be a main reason behind selecting the ones that are really old?   :)"

Oh dear! That is baaaaaad! Hahahahahaahehehehehehe!!! Oh, shit!... I am going to hell. Forgive Father, for I have laughed. Hey... yer laffin too, ain'tchya?


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 06:34 PM

An aside about Papal infallibility as an awkward doctrine

(In about 1967, I wrote a long paper on the 1st Vatican Council and the disputes over how & whether to declare the doctrine. I got an A- on the paper, but research in an average college library didn't gain half as much material as in the above link. Even if you object to the viewpoint expressed in the article, it is well worth reading to appreciate the logical conundrums the church faced in dealing with 'practical' theology.)


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: Joe Offer
Date: 17 Feb 13 - 04:07 AM

I would imagine that the Patriarch of Constantinople will never, ever be the "Patriarch of Istanbul." I don't think that change would be readily accepted by the Greeks. It's my understanding that there are only about 500 Greek Orthodox in Istanbul, along with the Patriarch. It's kind of a patriarchate-in-exile since the Greeks were expelled from Turkey in the 1920s. It's an interesting story - the Greeks, who had lived in Asia Minor since the time of Homer, thought they could get the upper hand on the Turks. They ended up losing everything, and Greece could not absorb all the Greeks who were exiled from Turkey. Many emigrated to the U.S., particularly to Detroit.

It's a bit "iffy" to say that the Pope himself is infallible, because that creates all sorts of misunderstandings. It's the doctrines he promulgates under certain very specific circumstances, that can be deemed infallible. Since the doctrine of infallibility was declared by the First Vatican Council in the 1870s, there has been only one clear-cut infallible doctrine, the assumption of Mary into heaven. And that's one of those doctrines that makes no nevermind to me. Who cares? Still, the Doctrine of Infallibility is an embarrassment to me. We Catholics would be better off without it.

Note that the First Vatican Council was held at the same time the Pope was losing ownership of the Papal States, so that he was no longer a political leader of any consequence. Was that the reason for the paranoid spirit of Vatican I? That council was called to oppose a long list of things that worried Pius IX, which he called the heresy "modernism." One particularly despicable aspect of modernism was "Americanism."

Papal politics is a fascinating spectator sport. It's important not to take it too seriously. After all, membership and obedience in the Catholic Church are voluntary. I wish Catholics would remember that. It would make Catholicism a lot more fun for them.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: mg
Date: 17 Feb 13 - 05:22 AM

I take it seriously...it has huge consequences for the world, especially with overpopulation etc. And it is cruel to expect people to have to figure out the birth control thing for themselves after being told they'll go to hell for it. And this guy in Ghana is giving me the creeps with his linkage with the "kill the gays" legislation in Uganda. This needs to be totally investigated and unless there is some logical explanation, he needs to be told in no uncertain terms he will never be pope and he can turn in his fancy cardinal hat furthermore. This is the most appalling thing to come out of a cardinal's mouth in my lifetime...and people are calling it normal homophobia..unfortunately homophobia is rampant, but it generally means we are going to denounce you and not let you marry, but it does not generally mean we support legislation that would kill you..or arrest you if you support gay rights. I hope that we do not have another wicked pope..just an ordinary one would be fine.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 17 Feb 13 - 05:33 AM

Raving catholics are just that - raving!!


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: Ed T
Date: 17 Feb 13 - 10:34 AM

"membership and obedience in the Catholic Church are voluntary"

I suspect so, as membership in life itself is voluntary, and seems from the outside relatively simple to leave. (It brings to mind puzzling situations where battered women, while often can voluntarily leave, but choose to stay).

But, as Steve Shaw and other posters in various threads explains, it is not always that simple, given early conditioning and family and social forces in many world areas. (and, we do not all face and react to such pressures and challenging decisions in the same way).

Regardless of who, in the rank and file, leaves or remains aligned to the RC church, (or, who follows it at what level) the impact of the church world-wide likely remains much the same. Given that, I would not expect external pressures for change to end soon. And, IMO, that is a good thing, as most aspects of secular world affairs are open to change as communication and knowledge increases - and, I mostly see that as a good thing.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Feb 13 - 12:58 PM

his linkage with the "kill the gays" legislation in Uganda.

If you check the stuff beneath the headlines it doesn't remotely add up to what you suggest there. Basically he seems to have said that it's important to understand the cultural background to stuff like that. That's not the same as defending it - in fact if you don't understand something you've tied one hand behind your back in trying to change it.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: gnu
Date: 17 Feb 13 - 02:22 PM

McGrath of Harlow... indeed. My first thought was ""Kill" don't sound right. Wires must be crossed."


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Feb 13 - 06:17 PM

turkson , his odds have shortened from 5 to 0ne to 9 to4, cardinal turkson will be the next pope


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: mg
Date: 17 Feb 13 - 06:23 PM

He said more than that, and in the context of a United Nations meeting. But it is important for him and the pope as one of his last acts to tell us exactly what is meant by him. This is not saying we are not going to marry you...it is at the very least failing to condemn open season on LB GT people..and those who fail to turn them in. And if, God forbid, he does become pope, think of the permission it gives people to abuse and commit violence on others..well, God said it was OK through the pope.

I am appalled at the apologists for this, until we get total assurance that it was somehow a misunderstanding. Gays themselves do not seem to be taking it as a cultural fluff.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-becker/catholic-bishops-suddenly-silent-as-lgbt-ugandans-face-possible-death_b_2131576.html


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Feb 13 - 07:01 PM

The fixed consensus of the Catholic Church is that the death penalty is not acceptable in any circumstance, founded on the principle that human lfe is sacred and to be protected. That applies just as much in Uganda as it does elsewhere.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: gnu
Date: 17 Feb 13 - 10:58 PM

Well, if clarification by someone regarding what they did not say is required without proof that they said what they did not say then I am gone... bless all and gnightgnu.

And... no write-in ballots for me, eh? If elected, I will not serve. Well, after I see what's in the wine cellar. I'll bet there is some really tasty grape juice kickin around in the basement.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 Feb 13 - 02:43 AM

I don't imagine we'll know any more about the inner workings of this papal election, than we have about previous ones. All the proceedings take place in secret. The cardinals will gather in Rome on March 1, the day after Benedict's resignation is effective. They'll spend every morning together, discussion about the Catholic Church and where it's going, and they will have lunch and dinner together every day - scoping each other out to evaluate possible candidates. This is supposed to go on for fifteen days, and then the voting begins. Since Benedict's resignation was announced well in advance, the 15-day initial period may be shortened.

I have to say that I don't put a whole lot of stock in people who say that so-and-so shouldn't be Pope because he hasn't said the right words on such-and-such an issue. No candidate will be perfect in the eyes of all. If the candidate is a Catholic bishop (and especially if he's an African bishop), he's not likely to be totally open to all LBGT issues. We also can't expect to find a candidate who is unscarred by the child molestation scandal - there were at least a few instances of child molestation in every diocese in the world, and the scandal was mishandled worldwide. I'm afraid it's very unlikely that the next Pope will be a liberal, or even as moderate as Benedict - there has been a turn to the right in the Catholic Church worldwide, not that I like that fact. The best we can hope for is a generous, tolerant person who is willing to listen.

Then again, nobody expected John XXIII.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 18 Feb 13 - 04:24 PM

Who will be the next Easter Bunny's representative on Earth?


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: Ed T
Date: 18 Feb 13 - 05:00 PM

""Good leaders make people feel that they're at the very heart of things, not at the periphery....Failing organizations are usually over-managed and under-led"".
- Warren G. Bennis


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 18 Feb 13 - 05:04 PM

We are talking about legislation that would possibily kill gays, and give others who fail to report them a 7 year prison sentence. We have one of the top two or three contenders for popeship failing to condemn this, and actually appearing to support it. Unless this is totally clarified, how could he possibibly be pope? Gays are already not safe in some countries, including some parts of the US.

I am not saying he has to marry them, approve of them, stop making moral judgements about their lifestyle. I assume that goes with the territory. But I am saying, and I would think anyone with a conscious would say, we can not have a pope who condones them being killed..not just by the government...once it was a law in one country and the pope seemed to endorse it, it would spread to other countries, and to vigilante groups as well. When one is not free, no one is free. This is beyond serious. It is catastrophic if it is true, and at the very least we need to find out what the truth is...which is not a strong point of this particular church at this particular time. Jason Berry, Maureen Dowd...please to find out.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Feb 13 - 05:30 PM

If you find somewhere he has indicated he is in favour of legislating to kill gay people...

Spun interpretations of what he has said and what he has not said are not the same thing.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 18 Feb 13 - 06:29 PM

http://www.news.va/en/news/card-designate-onaiyekan-simplicity-of-heart-humil

Perhaps this is a better choice..he was nominated for a nobel prize and seems OK from a cursory glance. New cardinal but bishop for 40 years. I can not imagine electing another 80 year old as Arinze is..but it is interesting that Turkson has said that he is not eligible for pope, but he actually is and you would think a cardinal would know that...especially one of the top contenders, who seems, along with an American pope (not so much now, but earlier) to be running.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: gnu
Date: 18 Feb 13 - 07:03 PM

"I can not imagine electing another 80 year old..."

Think of the money just in swag. New tshirts and mugs and whatever. And when he bites his last wafer... MORE money! It's modern marketing.

I told Father Sloan he should suggest another marketing tip "up along"... the Vatican could sell Pope swag... the robes, the mitres, the caps... whatever... AND, if ya get one autographed AND on top of that, if any of these were actually worn during a mass... $$$!!! I tell ya, the Vatican marketing department needs a kick in the rosary!

Hail Mary, full of grace... HOW many?


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Feb 13 - 08:13 PM

Cardinal Onaiyekan was only born in 1944. It's the other Nigerian Cardinal Arinze who was born in 1932, and at 80 would not be eligible to take part in the Conclave.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 Feb 13 - 09:40 PM

It would be highly unlikely to find a Roman Catholic Cardinal who would support Uganda's death penalty for homosexual acts. I'd almost say that to suggest such a thing is ludicrous. As McGrath says above, the death penalty itself is contrary to Catholic teaching. And while Catholic teaching does not approve of homosexual acts, there are official Catholic documents that denounce discrimination or intolerance against homosexuals - and Cardinals almost always uphold such documents. I'm sure, however, you could find a Reuters reporter who could twist a cardinal's words to make it sound that the cardinal approves of the Ugandan law. Reuters seems to make a hobby of that.

Seems like Huffington Post does the same, saying in a photo caption, "Cardinal Peter Turkson of Ghana has defended anti-gay legislation, like Uganda's 'Kill the Gays' bill." The text of the article says only that Turkson said it is understandable "why some African governments have created legislation against homosexuality." That's a far cry from giving approval to the death penalty for homosexual acts in Uganda.

It is true that many African cultures have strong taboos against homosexuals. A couple of years ago, I had a discussion of homosexual marriage with a friend of mine, who is a fairly young Catholic priest from Rwanda. He was quite surprised that I could say that I thought that homosexual marriage should be legal here in California - it was like he was stunned at what I said, but he accepted it [without agreeing] because he respected me (he respects everybody). He could not imagine that homosexual marriage could be a good thing, and he said that there are deep cultural prohibitions against homosexuality in most parts of Africa. I got the impression that this is not a Christian thing, that it goes back long before the advent of Christianity in Sub-Saharan Africa. My friend is humble and loving, with a wonderful laugh and a great sense of humor, and a deep but simple spirituality. I can't imagine him hating or even disliking anyone. But for some reason, homosexuality is abhorrent to him - although he has learned to get along with homosexuals here in California. I've known him for over five years, since just after his arrival in the U.S. It has been interesting to watch him struggle to accept the extravagances of American culture. And I admit that I have forced him to struggle by challenging him with ideas that make him uncomfortable. I tend to do that to young priests. I think somebody has to force them to grow up.

So, is my friend therefore disqualified from leadership in the Catholic Church?

Large segments of the population in Europe and North America are very tolerant of homosexuality, but I gather that's not the case in many parts of the Third World.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: Bert
Date: 18 Feb 13 - 10:09 PM

Well I was going to say Spaw 'cos he is kind and generous and loving and has that degree of irreverence that all good people should have.

BUT, having read Joe's words above I think that I will change my mind and vote for Joe.

Again, that is only because they count the balls of the Pope, otherwise my vote would go to my darling katlaughing.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: Bert
Date: 18 Feb 13 - 10:16 PM

OK, let's make this real. Post this thread on every other wall that you use. Think of how much better the world would be if Joe was Pope.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 Feb 13 - 10:17 PM

Katlaughing would make a VERY interesting Pope. I'd vote for her. If anybody could get rid of the taboos and hangups in one big helluva hurry, it would be her.

I can hear her first sermon: "People, stop all this intolerance shit and love one another. Amen."

....except that I can't really picture katlaughing saying "shit." She's too nice.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Feb 13 - 02:15 PM

My wife was reporting on an online forum she's been following recently, and she said that while it was a bit bad tempered and boring at times, it was alright really, because there were a few people there a bit like katlaughing.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: olddude
Date: 19 Feb 13 - 02:32 PM

I think it will be our Sins ... I have seen her dressed up like a NUN in several pictures and the word on the street is she has little nuns all over the house so why not be the next Pope

how about Sins


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Feb 13 - 02:20 PM

I get a right-wing publication online so that I can see what is being said over there. Whenever I can stomach it- my tolerance seems short-lived.

Be that as it may, this morning there was a headline on just WHY the pope is resigning along with dark hints on intrigue in the Vatican.

But like practically every story there, it 's a bait and switch thing- one has to become a member or something to get the WHOLE story. I didn't - and don't - go there; there is no way I'm going to add to their coffers.

Incidentally, the story also offered information on the likely front-runner. That too was buried in the next link.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Feb 13 - 03:28 PM

"I get a right-wing publication online ..."

This one? http://www.thetrumpet.com/ They have stuff to say about the pope, and ummmm.... other things.
I saw a copy of their print edition in a dentist's office recently. Startled me.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Feb 13 - 03:37 PM

I wouldn't feel too safe with a dentist like that..?


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Feb 13 - 07:18 PM

I can only hope he's like Ebbie and only gets it for 'information about the other side'.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Feb 13 - 08:18 PM

I wasn't thinking so much about political differences. That kind of thing doesn't matter too much. I'd be worried it was perhaps a sign he was dangerously unhinged...


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: Ed T
Date: 25 Feb 13 - 04:28 PM

""Britain's most senior Catholic cleric, Scotland's Cardinal Keith O'Brien, has resigned his position as archbishop of Edinburgh and St. Andrews amid allegations of "inappropriate behavior" just days before he would have taken part in the conclave to elect the next pontiff....O'Brien was had been taking advice from lawyers after British newspaper The Observer reported that three priests and a former priest had filed complaints to the Vatican alleging that the cardinal approached them in an inappropriate manner.""




One less vote


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Feb 13 - 05:06 PM

latest odds
Cardinal Peter Turkson (Ghana)         11/4
        
Cardinal Claudio Hummes (Brazil)         50/1
        
Cardinal Crescenzio Sepe (Italy)         100/1
Archbishop Angelo Scola (Italy)         3/1
        
CardinalGiovanni Battista Re (Italy)         66/1
        
Cardinal Philippe Barbarin (France)         100/1
Cardinal Marc Ouellet (Canada)         6/1
        
Archbishop Vincent Nichols (England)         66/1
        
Cardinal Ivan Dias (India)         100/1
Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone (Italy)         6/1
        
Cardinal Norberto Rivera Carrera (Mexico)         66/1
        
Cardinal Jaime Lucas Ortega y Alamino (Cuba)         100/1
Cardinal Angelo Bagnasco (Italy)         8/1
        
Cardinal Joao Braz de Aviz (Brazil)         66/1
        
Archbishop Pietro Parolin (Italy)         100/1
Cardinal Leonardo Sandri (Argentina)         12/1
        
Archbishop Piero Marini (Italy)         66/1
        
Cardinal Wilfrid Napier (South Africa)         100/1
Cardinal Gianfranco Ravasi (Italy)         14/1
        
Cardinal Agnostino Vallini (Italy)         66/1
        
Cardinal Donald Wuerl (United States)         125/1
Cardinal Peter Erdo (Hungary)         16/1
        
Archbishop Pier Luiga Celata(Italy)         66/1
        
Cardinal Silvano Piovanelli (Italy)         125/1
Cardinal Christoph Schonborn (Austria)         18/1
        
Cardinal Antonio Canizares Llovera (Spain)         66/1
        
Cardinal Geraldo Majella Agnelo (Brazil)         125/1
Cardinal Odilo Scherer (Brazil)         20/1
        
Cardinal Dionigi Tettamanzi (Italy)         66/1
        
Cardinal Julian Herranz Casado (Spain)         125/1
Cardinal Oscar Rodriguez Maradiaga (Honduras)         20/1
        
Cardinal Andre Vingt-Trois (France)         66/1
        
Cardinal Giacomo Biffi (Italy)         150/1
Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio (Argentina)         25/1
        
Archbishop Pier Luiga Celata (Italy)         66/1
        
Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O'Connor (UK)         150/1
Cardinal Francis Arinze (Nigeria)         25/1
        
Cardinal Angelo Amato (Italy)         80/1
        
Cardinal John Njue (Kenya)         150/1
Cardinal Timothy Dolan (United States)         33/1
        
Cardinal William Levada (United States)         80/1
        
Cardinal Walter Kasper (Germany)         150/1
Cardinal Luis Antonio Tagle (Philippines)         33/1
        
Cardinal Raymond Burke (United States)         80/1
        
Archbishop Nicolas de Jesus Lopez Rodriguez (Dominican Republic)         150/1
Patriarch Bechara Peter Rai (Lebanon)         40/1
        
Cardinal Attilio Nicora (Italy)         80/1
        
Cardinal Francis George (USA)         200/1
Cardinal Sean O'Malley (United States)         40/1
        
Cardinal Juan Luis Cipriani Thorne (Peru)         80/1
        
Archbishop Gerhard Ludwig Muller (Germany)         200/1
Cardinal Paolo Sardi(Italy)         50/1
        
Cardinal Antonio Maria Rouco Varela (Spain)         100/1
        
Cardinal Daniel DiNardo (USA)         200/1
Cardinal Albert Malcolm Ranjith (Sri Lanka)         50/1
        
Cardinal Karl Lehmann (Germany)         100/1
        
Cardinal Angelo Sodano (Italy)         200/1
Cardinal George Pell (Australia)         50/1
        
Archbishop Diarmuid Martin         100/1
        
Richard Dawkins (UK)         666/1
Cardinal Mauro Piacenza (Italy)         50/1
        
Cardinal Thomas Collins (Canada)         100/1
        
Father Dougal Maguire (Craggy Island)         1000/1
Cardinal Robert Sarah (French Guinea)         50/1
        
Cardinal Jose Da Cruz Policarpo (Portugal)         100/1
        
Bono (Ireland)         1000/1

top
BETSLIP Selections: 0 Help


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Feb 13 - 05:21 PM

Any offers "Elton" 1 ?


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 25 Feb 13 - 08:33 PM

I will vote for Mahony and O'Brien before I vote for the one from New York. I think it is very good that all this stuff is coming out...and it is not pretty and there is undoubtedly more. This O'Brien stuff is very interesting..he just a few days ago said priests should be able to marry..perhaps he knew his days were numbered and wanted to get the truth out..I don't know. His seems to be a very tragic case...strongly anti-gay..I think he was sending out a very strong message that priests are asked to give up too much in many cases..either straight or gay. Shonborn has spoken up, as I believe the cardinal from the Philipines...

I think we have to keep pressure on the cardinals to at least get an honest, decent man or woman..one who can clean house without being mean or unmerciful or screechingly homophobic.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: GUEST,999
Date: 26 Feb 13 - 02:22 AM

I strongly suspect Cardinal Angelo Scola will be the next Bishop of Rome.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Feb 13 - 03:33 AM

yes, could be , he is amongst the front runners in the betting, it would explain why paddy power has offered to refund any bets if a black pope is elected , because they know it will not happen


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: GUEST,999
Date: 26 Feb 13 - 05:11 AM

The tie around his collar may also be the rope around his neck: Communion and Liberation and his past but not present association with it. Church and State often meet at the corner of Money and Influence. The Cardinals may opt for a benign Pope like Oulette, but given Italy's recent 'political instability', it's possible Scola will be seen as the Great White Hope and subsequently find himself the successor of St Peter. Beats me.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 26 Feb 13 - 02:59 PM

I would not be surprised over either of them..or O'Malley or Erdo..know almost nothing about either but have not heard bad things. Shonborn seems the best to me so far..also one from Philippines seems OK but I don't know. I do not know why Bertone is even mentioned but he is in the top 4 now I think...isn't he a big part of the problem..the various multiple interacting problems? One who should never ever be is the one from New York. I get the heebie jeebies from him and he is mentioned as one of the top three by SNAP as do not elect hands are not clean.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 26 Feb 13 - 03:04 PM

If I had to put money down right now I would say O'Malley..he has worked with the abuse situation..not perfectly according to victims' groups but not horrifyingly either. I could go for a pope that did not horrify me. He is in the top 10 or 15 or 20 depending on where you look.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: kendall
Date: 27 Feb 13 - 02:42 PM

I wonder if they will do a background check? :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 27 Feb 13 - 03:28 PM

I vote for background check. Also a poll from the people he or she now leads...is he/she respected amongst locals? Of course that would not work for the curia. I am befuddled by why Bertone is listed. I think he is considered part of the mess in the vatican. I am supersticious enough to not want anyone called Peter..leaves out Turkson, Erdo and Bertone..middle name. Turkson has problems. Bertone has problems. Oulette has impending huge scandals in Quebec he must face. SNAP has listed 3 to not elect and I will go with their call..New York, one from Mexico and one from Honduras.

Who does that leave? Erdo, although he is a Peter, Scola, a couple of other Italians, probably O'Malley, Tagle is rising, oh..Shonborn seems OK. I think from scant knowledge that SHonborn is the most amenable to necessary reforms.

I want to know more about O'Brien..timing is significant where he says priests should perhaps marry and celibacy wither away. Then come accusations and demotion. What is cause and effect? Some say he was demoted for calling for marriage. It could be coincidence..he was retiring anyway and probably wanted to get his truth out..but who knows. I think this is a very tragic situation..if allegations are true (involving seminarians, not children) he was probably a tormented man who was very outspoken on homosexual issues (not supporting them) but was said to be a nice man himself. This is very confusing to me...We have a lot to fix...


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Feb 13 - 05:03 PM

" I am supersticious enough to not want anyone called Peter."

That's a very strange superstition on your part... Do you apply it generally, or is it just for popes?

What's SNAP?


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: GUEST,999
Date: 27 Feb 13 - 05:46 PM

SNAP is the lead singer in Crackle and Pop.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 27 Feb 13 - 06:27 PM

Big disputed prediction by St. Malachy or his followers or faked on his behalf that last pope will be Peter and he only listed 112 popes and this is the one...so 3 out of top ten have peter in their name..hope he meant papal name and hope no one takes it. I am a good Catholic actually when it comes to believing scary supersticious things.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: Bill D
Date: 27 Feb 13 - 06:34 PM

All of this betting, speculation and analysis is from those who will not be in the enclave and doing the voting. I'm sure many can be eliminated, and some of those odds reflect that, but I'd sure not risk any money on even a group of 5-10.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 27 Feb 13 - 07:17 PM

Ha ha...I bet there is some going on in the enclave.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Feb 13 - 07:34 PM

Well, I thought that seein' as all the bishops are checkin' in here at Mudcat to see who they should be voting for that I'd go on record of sayin' that if elected, I will not serve so...

...don't waste yer votes... I ain't even Catholic...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Feb 13 - 07:36 PM

Betting on the name rather than the person might be a change.

I'd make a guess at Leo - which would be a nod in the direction of the last Leo, who wrote the encyclical Rerum Novarum, a title best translated as Revolution.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: GUEST,999
Date: 27 Feb 13 - 10:01 PM

If I'm nominated I will not run, and if I'm elected I will not serve.

Pat Paulsen


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 Feb 13 - 03:42 AM

So, what's this enclave thing? I suppose it's correct to say that the Vatican is an enclave (a territory entirely surrounded by another territory), but what's that got to do with electing a Pope?
I think the word you want is conclave.
-Joe Pedant-


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 28 Feb 13 - 07:27 AM

who cares? W (lutheran)


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: GUEST,Roger Knowles
Date: 28 Feb 13 - 10:57 AM

I'm with Wilfried Schaum - who cares? I don't


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Feb 13 - 11:11 AM

arrrggghhh ..Yes, Joe... "conclave". Old brain picked that other word from some vague list. Coulda been brave, rave or Burma Shave

Anyway, I read that the general 'practice' is that cardinals don't directly campaign or ask for support about specific choices, but rather just 'discuss' obliquely in ways that suggest good ideas. No doubt that results of first ballots will focus the general mood.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Feb 13 - 02:26 PM

,"who cares"?" By definition, to some degree, anyone who takes the trouble to post on this thread, including Wilfried and Roger, I would suggest.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: The Sandman
Date: 28 Feb 13 - 05:36 PM

i was hoping for informed opinion so i could win some money.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: GUEST,jaze
Date: 28 Feb 13 - 07:39 PM

I read somewhere the actual rules are ANY Catholic man can become pope. How about a write in campaign for Joe?


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: GUEST,999
Date: 28 Feb 13 - 09:03 PM

"I read somewhere the actual rules are ANY Catholic man can become pope. How about a write in campaign for Joe?"

All ya gotta do is convince 78 Cardinals to go along with the idea.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: mg
Date: 06 Mar 13 - 03:34 AM

This is getting interesting. Supposedly two feuding cardinals of curia, Bertone and Sodona, are scheming to get in the German from Brazil..Sherer?? Bertone is number 3 in gambling sites, which horrifies me, as does number two, Turkson. I am hopeful that Shonborn seems to be stable around the top ten. I don't know about Tagle but he seems OK. O'Malley is up to something. He seems like a decent sort but he is going to appear on a SNAP list tomorrow of dirty dozen..is accused mostly of delaying abuse things but also gets credit for doing aan lot of cleanup. But he is pontificating all over the place now..and I don't get the impression he is running for pope, like the one from New York seemed to be a few months ago..thank heavens that has recided..I think someone told him to shut up...anyway, the "vatican" issues statemennts about things and O'Malley just casually disregards them..which I thhink is wonderful...he is sending some sort of message to the curia..hopefully that their days are numbered..anyway, it is very interesting to watch. I think he has many qualitries a pope needs b ut would be better running a retreat center somewhere but I am OK with him for pope.he seems amiable but also sly like a fox...also PROB Tagle and definitely Shonb orn is probably my favorite.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 06 Mar 13 - 07:53 PM

Oh this O'Malley thing is getting more interesting..they have essentially shut him down..along iwth others who are commenting to the press but I think he is the main target...he is hitting close to the bone in a skillful way..he is an artist at this..like a chess player...saying to the entire world, oh I am sure we'll get lots of information on the top secret locked in a safe 300 page document that allegedly caused Pope Benedict to resign sooner than planned...and while official word was they wanted to hurry the election through he is saying..oh we'll take whatever time we need..he is coming as close as I have seen in my life to a higherup in the church telling the truth..mirable..mg


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Mar 13 - 08:21 PM

Once again I ask - what is SNAP? I googled this, and it just came up with stuff like Spay Neutral All Pets and Supplementary National Assistance Program, which I suspect aren't too likely to be relevant...

No point worrying about who's going to get elected. Pick your favourite and pray... Being picked as a likely winner tends to mean not much chance of getting the white smoke.

Personally I'm hoping it'll be a black pope ths time. My wife was talking to a couple of black fellow parishioners the other day, qand she was taken aback to learn that they've run into some people who make a point of not shaking their hands at the Sign of Peace. Which is a bit strange since about one in three of the people at Mass are black or brown.   A black pope would really piss off those kind of people.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: mg
Date: 06 Mar 13 - 10:10 PM

survivors of child abuse....and i am not against a spay/neuter program for some offenders.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: mg
Date: 06 Mar 13 - 10:34 PM

snap has been very active in this papal election and good for them. they have a suite in a hotel in rome..or the vatican..probably rome...they are releasing the names tomorrow of 3 people who have better records in this area..i am guessing shonborn of austria, martin of ireland..darned if i can think of a third..there was a retired australian and retired american who were considered good. we are electing a pope of one billion or so people..and can't come up with more than 3 names?????????? I am sure many are either quite capable or innocent or their work does not demand action in this area..but they have not spoken out for the most part. they have not complied with law enforcement in many many cases...not my only issue in electing a pope but certainly one of the top ones..along with Mafia involvement and money laundering etc. You should c basicallyompare the cardinals from new york and boston when asked what top issues were..new york went on and on and basically said nothing..boston said fix the sex abuse and reform the curia.


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Subject: RE: Test Your Knowledge of the Bible
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 Mar 13 - 01:08 AM

Kevin, SNAP is Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests, not the easiest acronym to tie to the actual name of the group. Click here for SNAP's "dirty Dozen" list. I agree with some of the organization's choices, but their charges against O'Malley are pretty flimsy. My top choice is still O'Malley, although I don't think he has a chance against the Europeans. I've never been impressed by Dolan. Dolan seems to fit the European stereotype of Americans - loud and lacking insight.

The other major US organization dealing with the child molestation crisis is http://www.bishop-accountability.org/, which maintains a database naming all U.S. priests, nuns, and church officials accused of sexual misconduct.

I tend to think of SNAP as more than a little bit brash. They seem bent on attack, rather than on resolving the problem of child molestation and healing the victims. bishopaccountability.org seems to be more an information provider, and it seems to seek a balanced, factual approach (which is still damning).

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: mg
Date: 07 Mar 13 - 02:21 AM

i think the new york transplant..don't blame new york on him..has pathology and it terrifies me he could be pope..and he seemed to be running for it..he is a bully it seems and a liar for sure..but fortunately people seem to be wise to him and he probably has been told to tone it down because he won't be elected due to the law on his tail. i hope to never have to lizten to one of his letters he makes the priests read from the pulpit. o'malley seems to have lots of great qualities..one of which i discovered when i had insomnia..just put on a youtube of him speaking and it is like a high dose of melatonin...


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Mar 13 - 02:54 AM

Have just got back from Dublin after seeing 'Mea Maxima Culpa' - Silence in the House of God, a documentary on the emerging of the earliest revelations of the clerical abuse scandal that (hopefully) will remove any temporal influence the church may have on the lives of any human being anywhere on this planet.
The film begins with the systematic abuse of deaf children by Milwaukee priest, Father Lawrence Murphy. It goes on to describe the lengths three of the abused children went to to bring these crimes to the attention of the public, and the lengths the church went to to cover up the abuses and to keep Father Murphy in office so he could continue to work with deaf children and continue to abuse them.
The last section of the film shows how the Vatican reacted to the revelations of world-wide clerical abuse, from refusing to co-operate with the investigation of these crimes, to denying access to relevant documents and information, even to declaring The Vatican a separate State and therefore immune to prosecution for or implication in any of these crimes.
The retiring pope, who denied any knowledge of these crimes until the abuses became public knowledge, in fact lied. As an archbishop he was put in charge of dealing with all reported child abuses by clerics - every single reported case of clerical child abuse that became known to the church, or even suspected, passed through his hands.
Up to the present day The Vatican holds these and many other such documents in its archives and refuses access to them in order to protect the abusers and the reputation, wealth and (remaining) influence of church.
One interesting fact (to me at least) revealed by the film was that the earliest recorded case of child abuse by a cleric took place 1,700 years ago - it's been going on a long, long, long time.
I don't know who the next pope will be but I hope it is somebody honest, decent and brave enough to deal with these massive number of serial crimes, acknowledge the church establishment's role in them and bring some sort of closure to the surviving victims - but somehow, I doubt it.
I would make MEA MAXIMA CULPA - Silence in the House of God obligatory viewing to anybody who doubts the facts of these crimes; in fact, it wouldn't be any harm for anybody working with and having influence over children to treat themselves to a couple of hours worth of unremitting horror.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 Mar 13 - 04:49 AM

You know, Jim, I don't know anybody who "doubts the facts of these crimes." The disagreement is about how or whether such crimes can be prevented, and about the extent of culpability of church leaders who employed molesting priests. In many ways, it seemed that many dioceses, including Milwaukee, took extensive efforts beginning in the 1960s to root out seminarians who were potential molesters, and to provide long-term, inpatient psychiatric treatment to priests who had been accused of molestation. The trouble is, the screening and the treatment didn't work. Treatment programs were abandoned in the US in the 1990s, and most dioceses set up zero-tolerance policies. Priests who were accused, were suspended immediately and reported to the police. You will notice that there was a dramatic drop in priest molestation cases beginning in the 1990s. The zero-tolerance policies became uniform and nationwide in the U.S. in 2002.

You mentioned the Milwaukee priest, Fr. Lawrence Murphy, director of St. John's School for the Deaf. I didn't hear anything about occurrences there until a year or two ago. However, in 1962-63, I attended school in the seminary building next door to the school for the deaf. I never, ever saw anybody outside on the grounds of that school, and I sometimes wondered why that was. I mean, you'd think they would go outside to play or something. There was always activity on the seminary campus, and it did seem a bit spooky that there was no human activity at all on the grounds of the school for the deaf.

I knew a girl from Montana who moved to Milwaukee when her brother went to the school for the deaf, but she didn't say anything about any problems there.

There were several Fr. Murphys among the 600-some priests in the Archdiocese of Milwaukee. I knew a few Murphys among the many dozens of priests I knew, but don't think I ever met Fr. Lawrence Murphy. I think child molesters can try to make themselves invisible. I knew the priests in the parish church across the street - why didn't I know the priest who ran the school right next door? Why didn't I ever see a living soul on the grounds of that school?

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Mar 13 - 05:08 AM

Joe
Nobody does doubt these facts any more, what they do doubt is the extent of them and the complicity of the Vatican in covering them up and allowing them to continue.
The Pope lied - and no discussion on the papacy should ever cover up that fact
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Mar 13 - 11:20 AM

Go see the film Joe and let me know what you think of it - please.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 07 Mar 13 - 02:22 PM

If it weren't built on such tragic crimes, horrors, depravity..it would be fascinating from just a human interest point of view. The long awaited fresh breeze that was supposed to waft through the church has turned into a big f'in hurricane and not a minute too soon. I am gleeful about what Cardinals Mahoney and DiNardo and Sr. Walsh and perhaps others did to just go on camera and start dropping hints. It is important to watch what Sodano and Bertone (who still is listed as about #3 in gambling sites) are up to..no good it seems. SNAP is doing wonders getting people talking..the third person they have named (good guys) is Tagle..I had a hunch..should have said so and then I would have named all three...Schonborn and Martin being the others. Others will speak up...the dam has essentially been broken. Are they all going to excommunicate each other? Ha ha..no pope and it is the best time to clean things up and make things right by our ancestors, who would be turning over in their graves...

I also want to hear from Keith O'Brien..he started to talk, perhaps as he knew his days were numbered. He has a lot to say about the torment of gay closeted priests and clergy and the type of acts it can lead them too (not pedophilia in this case but abuse of his power over young seminarians apparently).


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: gnu
Date: 12 Mar 13 - 04:19 PM

THANK GOODNESS Canucks can now rest easy! I have just heard on CBC that Peter Mansbridge and whatshername will be in Rome soon to keep us up to date with live coverage. WHEW! That was close. Sorry I couldn't simulate the dramatic accompanying music.

I can just feel the tension...

Pete : No white smoke yet. Stay tuned.

Fookin rivitin, eh?


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: Songwronger
Date: 12 Mar 13 - 10:20 PM

I've read some articles that claim the resignation and all is due to banking issues. The Vatican bank is insolvent or close to it, and in order to secure a loan from the Anglo-American banking cartel, pope Ratzinger had to go. If the next pope is from a former English colonial country, then the City of London will have succeeded in putting their CEO in the Vatican. Or so some people think.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: mg
Date: 12 Mar 13 - 11:45 PM

Interesting headlines about Scola and Mafia friend and police raid in his diocese..hard to figure out what the story is but it happened i guess before they were locked in. it at least brings up questions, which are obvious with at least one very major cardinal but not necessarily with scola. He was number 1 contender. Also about number 7 or so..Schonborn, my favorite...his mother has spoken up and said her son is too kind hearted to be pope and does not like dishonest people and would not be able to handle all the bitchiness in the vatican. would love to see the entire interview. Ratings fluctuate but seem to be approximately scola, sherer, being pushed by vatican hcuria, possibly because he is docile to them but he looks very severe..turkson, bertone, going down thank heavens, oullet. Next a cluster of pretty nice seeming ones who fluctuate..tagle, shonborn, o'malley, ravasi, erdo.

I do not want a peter because of the prophecies, so leaves out turkson and erdo and one or two have pedro or similar as middle names. if someone takes the name peter after all these prophecies he is just thumbing his nose at us all i believe. bertone is too damaged.

Interesting face analyses ..asked people who they wanted for pope based on facial features..perhaps honesty?? O'Malley was first of the group, I think followed by Erdo and Tagle. O'Malley wildly popular with Italianhs and his own parish people have good things to say about him. But I think Shonborn is the best..very kind looking man, has taken on Sodano who is not a nice person it seems, was scolded by the pope, has spoken out about priests marrying I think or was it celibacy..is Austrian so probably can figure out mess left behind and still attended to by Ratzinger and Gaswein...it would probably baffle a Filipino or Argentinian..too much to sort out between the Curia and the German legacy..I think another German or close cousin is needed.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 13 Mar 13 - 12:48 AM

BS: who will be next pope????

Pope Ah-hah the 39th

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 13 Mar 13 - 08:59 PM

And now we know!


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: GUEST,999
Date: 14 Mar 13 - 04:57 PM

After weeks of heavy thinking, I figure whoever it is will be from Argentina.


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Subject: RE: BS: who will be next pope
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Mar 13 - 04:05 PM

I don't think they'll go for two from Argentina in a row


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