Tech: Dragon Naturally Speaking

Subject: Tech: Dragon Naturally Speaking
From: gnu
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 06:53 PM

First things first. I have DNS12 and Win 8. Whaddya got?

I hope this thread will aid users of DNS. It might. It might not. But it's worth pooling our resources. I find sifting thru help pages very time consuming so I thought I would try this approach.

eg... click You Tube... danny bhoy Australia.... THEN what?

Subject: RE: Tech: Dragon Naturally Speaking
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 06:56 PM

I've given up on current Dragon releases. They crash XP, Vista and 8 (all of which I have).

IBM viavoice was stable on XP and 98SE (ish)

Subject: RE: Tech: Dragon Naturally Speaking
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 12:26 PM

Don Firth and Katlaughing both use Dragon software and have reported success.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Dragon Naturally Speaking
From: gnu
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 08:54 PM

I like this kind of interaction. I have 30 DAYS FROM PURCHASE TO RETURN IT AND BUY BETTER IF IT'S AVAILABLE.

But... last night I had a major hiccup. Tried to correct it a dozen times and it just kept saying, "Huh?" Shut it off and went to bed.

Subject: RE: Tech: Dragon Naturally Speaking
From: vectis
Date: 15 Feb 13 - 08:30 AM

Windows 8 is causing major problems, primarily because it is designed for tablets and similar touch screen machines and it does not work well on standard non touch screen computers and causes hangups and glitches galore.

I have had Dragon for years and it works very well. The problem is that I have used it to write out the words of songs and ballads for so long that it does archaic language very well but writes 'ere instead of air when writing letters. Darnit!

Subject: RE: Tech: Dragon Naturally Speaking
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Feb 13 - 12:03 PM

I am going to stick with Win7 and bypass the Win8 software. As vectis said, Win8 is trying to do all things for all devices, and I still do the lion's share of my computer on a desktop PC powerhouse (compared to laptops and tablets and phones.) I tend to skip operating systems (I used XP through the Vista years until I upgraded to Win7). Windows seems to alternate between systems and their audience. I want the robust Pro or Ultimate versions of workhorse software. Ever since I got burned by the crap that was Windows ME (Millennium Edition). And read the box - does the Dragon software name your OS? Then you probably can't install it. Check online to see if Dragon has software for Win8 and see if you can return or exchange it.

When you buy a device the operating system matters. Personally, while it's under warranty, I would ask if the company can install Win7 and forget the Win8 stuff.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Dragon Naturally Speaking
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 15 Feb 13 - 06:17 PM

Windows 7 does a "sort of good" job of running many "legacy programs," but does require you to "Run as Administrator" for a number of programs, and even for several that are "box labelled" (and carry Microsoft's own name) as being Win7 compatible.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Dragon Naturally Speaking
From: gnu
Date: 15 Feb 13 - 06:24 PM

vectis... set up two users and that will avoid your problems. I set up three... professional spelling gnu, storytellin gnu and under the influence gnu. DUI gnu (Dictating Under the Influence ganew) don't work real good but at least I can read it.

SRS! Again the voice of wisdom and reason.... thanks! Not something that futureshit.ca might normally do but I think Dave can get the job done if I ask him. Dave is a cool guy. I shall ask. I can't even print squat or "do things" with my other 4 PCs although that's to be expected in a way.

Subject: RE: Tech: Dragon Naturally Speaking
From: gnu
Date: 15 Feb 13 - 06:30 PM

JiK... I posted on another thread. Western Digital external has a WIN 8 sticker on the package... nuh-uh! 9 times out of ten WIN 8 Says "   ". Then, it finds the drive on the tenth try. I think SRS has the best solution. I shall think hard about it for a few days.

Plus, my ISP FREE security suite does not like WIN 8 (for AT LEAST 3 months). I bought Kaspersky for $30 on sale but haven't opened it. $30 is $30.

Subject: RE: Tech: Dragon Naturally Speaking
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 08:12 AM

gnu -

I had a couple of WD externals that worked fine, but the last one I bought (or that I'm ever likely to buy) made a change NOT INDICATED IN ANY WAY ON THE EXTERNAL PACKAGING.

They incorporated a "separate partition" formated as an optical disk that took 20% off the usable drive size indicated, where they put all the "trashware." The optical disk connects as a separate drive, and since it's hard-wired READ ONLY you can't delete what's on it or reformat it.

Every time something pings the USB hub, Windows runs through all the USB connected stuff, and it when it finds an optical drive with a disk in it (obviously in this case that's every time) it pops up the whaddayawannado message. Unfortunately, "discovery" of this drive dumps the connection to one or two other things EVERY TIME, so I have to reboot my scanner and reconnect it, and sometimes reset a couple of other things. It appears that PNP can't get a consistent separate identity from either the "Optical" or the normal HD part of this Piece of Shit, since it tells the computer there are two devices with the same identity - or something like that.

WD says you can "eliminate" the "optical drive" with a BIOS update, (leaving you with 2/3 of the drive you paid for) but after several tries at the WD site I've never been able to determine whether they're talking about the BIOS in the drive or whether they mean a change to the computer BIOS.

Seagate is about the only other thing available from local storefronts, and I've had no problems with them. There are several other makers I could buy on the web, but my browser doesn't go to anything WD anymore.

Unless there's some kind of phony stuff in the WD, maybe the same as I found or some other grand hallucination they came up with, all your computer/USB should care about is that it's a drive formatted in something compatible, and it has a "unique identity."

It is possible that you've connected too many USB devices to the same hub, but that's pretty hard to do. The spec limit is 8, but sometimes a hub gets confused with fewer and some computers have a lower limit for arcane reasons I've never looked at. You can "daisy chain" another hub from a port on the machine or from one hub to another to get more (and I prefer using only powered hubs), although there is a limit in the spec (>20?)on the total number chained off a single port.

With external drives you probably will want to assign (map) a drive letter if you want to keep track of which one you're using, and it's probably a good idea to "name" the drive the first time you bring it up. Windows should use a name derived from the USB identity if you don't add one of your own, but if you've got more than one from the same maker it can be hard to keep them straight with only the generic name. A name that you assign to it should be written onto the drive and will stay the same everytime you hook up (although it won't show in all the places where it'd be handy), while a drive letter that you map it to may sometimes change if you connect more than one at a time and change the order in which you plug them in.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Dragon Naturally Speaking
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 11:14 AM

The running as an administrator bit is important - because many people, me included this time around - use their computers as administrators. If you set up the administrator account for installing software and such and do your browsing and work on a separate regular user account then malware (or software you shouldn't be installing) can't write to your registry to install itself. You have to do that in administrator mode (assuming the administrator knows what they're doing.)

I use WinPatrol to keep an eye on my registry - any time anything is installed, and when programs update, the little scotty dog pops up and asks if I want to do that. If something tries to sneak in and install itself that I wasn't aware of and don't want, I click No and the program can't install. I would then run Malwarebytes and scan with a couple of other programs I use to make sure nothing noxious is in there.

gnu, unless the company swaps out the operating system you'll probably end up having to pay for the new one, and they aren't cheap. For experienced computer users you can go to someplace like NewEgg and buy an OEM version, but those are meant to be put in new computers by people building computers who will then offer any assistance, Windows doesn't support OEM products, other than updates and such.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Dragon Naturally Speaking
From: gnu
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 12:53 PM

Jik... if I knew what you were talking about (I have a good idea), I would be at it ASAP as their are 3 USB ports (2 are 3.0). But, I'll read up on it and I thank you greatly for pointing out something I was unaware of. As far as the WD Passport, I can't quite recall how much storage was available. I'll wait on that until there is a sale on them to get back to seeing if they work and I will definitely research what you said regarding that as well. Thanks.

SRS... ditto on the "I did not even think of that". Even tho I know how to do it, I didn't see the use in it. I am gonna do it. Thanks.

Subject: RE: Tech: Dragon Naturally Speaking
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 01:49 PM

gnu -

If you have one of the WDs with the "optical partition" in it, you'd see TWO Drives come up when you plug it in instead of the one expected. The default name for the optical part would probably be something like "WD Smartware" and it would show NO FREE SPACE (right click on the drive and Properties) since you can't write anything to it.

Lots of external USB devices get their power from the USB socket that they're plugged into, but the amount of power the socket can supply is limited. A few devices (example - external DVD burners) come with a "pigtail" lead so you can plug into two separate USB sockets, one of which supplies only power while the other does the signal stuff and whatevr additonal power is needed.

You can plug an external USB HUB into any socket and plug several devices into the hub, and if you use an external powered hub, with a wall wart to provide power from a wall socket, the power drain on the computer's socket will be minimized. If you use a "passive hub" all the power for all of the USB devices you hook to the hub has to come from the single computer socket you plug the hub into.

It's rare, but overloading a USB socket can burn out (or permanently degrade performance for) the socket or its controller. Unlikely as it is, if you should happen to overload a powered external hub enough to hurt it, it's $15 bucks for a replacement, but if you smoke the one in the computer it's major surgery.

Overloading a passive hub is more likely to affect the built-in port than the external hub, since all the power for everything that's plugged into the passive slave hub has to come from that computer port, and some single individual USB devices need about all the power a single port is supposed to be able to provide.

If your USB devices are having trouble being recognized it's possible that your USB manager in the computer has gotten fouled. This usually happens if you've unplugged and replugged things without using the "safely remove hardware" button. The recommended procedure is to disconnect all of the USB devices and then go into Device Manager and DELETE ALL THE USB STUFF. Reboot, and connect USB devices one at a time and let PlugNPlay rebuild the setup.

Note though that when you delete all the USB controllers, your keyboard and mouse, both of which probably go through a USB port even if you're "wireless," will disappear. The ports aren't labeled in Device Manager so that you can tell what device is on which port, so it's guess work to get the mouse last, and getting a "clean" shutdown after you've disabled both mouse and keyboard is a little bit of a puzzle.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Dragon Naturally Speaking
From: gnu
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 09:02 PM

Just saw your post, Jik. I will read it tomorrow. Not that I will understand it then but I know fer sure I shant tonight. Thanks in advance.

Subject: RE: Tech: Dragon Naturally Speaking
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 29 Jan 14 - 05:34 AM

While the thread has drifted from the original subject, this is the only thread I found (within the past year) that shows DNS as the subject.

Several people here have mentioned using DNS with good results. Massive advertising (in emails I receive and on my local TV) claim that the newest versions are "greatly improved." (?)

An apparent "spinoff" on the idea of voice recognition appears in an ad in the latest issue of Smithsonion Magazine, for a telephone featuring "amplified sound" and a "simultaneous" real-time display of the text spoken. (The magaxine is quite reputable, but not all the advertisements are as reliable as I like to be able to believe.)

The ad claims no requirement for the caller (unlike TTY, which has been around for years), with all text-conversion done by your own (receiving) phone. Identification of the producer/seller is a bit vague, with only a (US) 877- phone number given for "more information." The most positive point I noted is that they don't claim "Medicare will pay for it, if you're hearing impaired" as any competent scammer would probably do.

I'll omit further details (which were sparse in the ad) pending indications of interest, but will try to keep the ad where I can find it for a while in case someone wants more. The idea of a speech-recognizing 'phone is interesting enough that similar devices may appear soon, if these people show some success (?) although this is the first one I've seen. It's also possible that something similar is already known by those who've needed something of the kind(?).

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Dragon Naturally Speaking
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 29 Jan 14 - 06:07 AM

I have DNS.

It is a pain to use.

If you can type 30 wpa ... your typing will be better.

1. Reading the text speech piece from Mark Teain over and over will take several hours.

2. What you dictate will not be what you get. You will use proofread and spell check over and over and then need to format and paste.

3. It is far better to keyboard it in directly...since that is what you will end up doing. DNS looks like you spilled the typesetting box before you got a galley proof.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: Tech: Dragon Naturally Speaking
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 29 Jan 14 - 01:07 PM

A concern with the "text displaying 'phone" would be that DNS (and other specch recognizing programs) generally require "training" to allow the program to recognize your own dictation. It would seem unlikely that the phone could do a "perfect translation" of a call from an unknown speaker (???), especially from someone whose speech you have difficulty understanding.

Text-to-voice translation (not a named feature of the 'phone) would depend on the accuracy of the "text." Many "documents" are likely to be in .pdf files, in which the text is in a hidden layer under the visible picture," and the "text" version may have been produced by an OCR program from an image scan of the original. In a good PDF program, you can use the "text selector" to copy the actual text layer, paste it into something like Word, and see whether the OCR produced something legible or just created "the usual mess." This doesn't give much help with the problem, but may give a better idea of why the conversion to voice is less than satisfactory.

Other formats, as for the popular "book readers" may use a similar setup, but I've been unable to find sufficient details on those formats to tell whether they display "pictures" or actual "text." (LiK has asked about converting other forms to use on her Nook, but she's got about 300 "Nook books" she hasn't read yet so I haven't given the problem much priority.)

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Dragon Naturally Speaking
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 29 Jan 14 - 09:39 PM

JO in Kansas.

Interesting you should bring up OCR.

There are similar DNS issues to OCR.

There is a substantional amount of time devoted to both to "clean up" of text and reformat for standard usage.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

there is a perverse pleasure in watching a university student squirm when their feet are placed to the fire because a younger sibling used the university student's previously plagerized paper. Not a new area for academic senates...can a previously granted degree be revoked?. But quite wonderful when a German head-of-state is toppled.

Subject: RE: Tech: Dragon Naturally Speaking
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 29 Jan 14 - 11:16 PM

I've been doing quite a lot of scanning of textbooks to pdf. Since the scanner produces an image, OCR is necessary to convert it to "searchable text," which is one of the real advantages of having it digital. The ABBYY OCR that came with my scanners does a much better job than previous others, but still leaves quite a few "clinkers."

The converter provided with the scanners for conversion from image to pdf is from Nuance, the makers of DNS, and also includes the ability to convert between .jpg, .pdf, Word, and a couple of other formats. Conversion accuracy is heavily dependent on the accuracy of the OCR for scanned documents.

Best results probably are obtained when the starting point is "plain text," either Word documents or .txt, with "formatted text" (.rtf) fairly close. In a very few cases I've made the pdf from .jpg, converted .pdf to .txt, corrected the errors, and then made a new .pdf from the corrected text; but that's only justified for "very important documents" that just don't come out right straight from the .jpg scan to .pdf.

I haven't messed with text-to-voice or voice-to-text, so only know what I've seen in the comic books (called advertisements - or more often "marvelous special offers" - by the authors).

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Dragon Naturally Speaking
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Jan 14 - 06:48 PM

Dragon is still shit if you speak upper middle class English. I believe it can cope with American spoken English and whatever passes for spoken English in Delhi, maybe even lower class English. It's shit for me. IBM ViaVoice was miles better.

Subject: RE: Tech: Dragon Naturally Speaking
From: gnu
Date: 31 Jan 14 - 01:52 PM

I talks yer Kent County backwoods trash n she pulls tha sled like me ol horse Tiny. Had ta train Tiny too n she was 2200 pound a pissed off horse.

Subject: RE: Tech: Dragon Naturally Speaking
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 31 Jan 14 - 02:40 PM

I used a rather expensive IBM OCR for a while some time ago, that I bought to replace what came with an earlier scanner. I'll agree with RB that IBM has made some really weird sh*t, but in this case it was a little better than the other one.

That was several years ago, and the current ABBYY is greatly improved over either of those, although still not fully error free.

It has to be assumed that any such "transmogrifier" needs a "dictionary" of what words there are in the language you're using, in order to guess well. Maybe "upper middle class English (yUK style) isn't a mainstream language (at IBM et. al.).

The Microsoft Press Book Developing International Software, in the edition for Win95 (©1995), shows 47 different keyboards (an incomplete list) and most of those can be used for multiple languages/dialects.

My most spectacular recent OCR failure was on the scan of The Dictionary of Egyptian Hieroglyphics, Vol I. Even Microsoft doesn't have a keyboard for those chars, and there's no UNICODE character definitions for them, so far as I've found. UK English probably lies somewhere between heiroglyphics and other real languages. (Just takin' a poke at RB. I've heard a number of UK speakers, and some of it really was mostly intelligible.)

John