Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Donal Og (Young Donald) From: GUEST,Judith Date: 24 May 00 - 12:03 AM I was so pleased to come across the discussion of this song, though it is quite late in the thread. Nice to finally see the lyrics written out, since I invariably mis-hear something in every set of lyrics. I don't know if she ever recorded it, but I heard Bonnie Shalgeen (sp?) sing it during an interview with her & Packy Burn twenty or more years ago. She used verses 1,5,7,& 8 of Stewie's originally posted set (using "when first I saw you" rather than "when last I saw you"), plus the extra stanza that Wolfgang sent (inserting this between 5 & 7). (If anyone knows the proper spelling of her name, I'd appreciate knowing it. And does anyone know if Packy has passed on by now?) |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Donal Og (Young Donald) From: AoifeO Date: 07 May 00 - 03:06 PM There is a lovely version of this song on an album by Georgia Rose and Suzannah Armstrong-Park, daughters of Jenny Armstrong. It is indeed a gorgeous song. This version is particulary heartfelt and moving. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Donal Og (Young Donald) From: Stewie Date: 06 May 00 - 10:41 PM Unfortunately, they remain unavailable in any format. We will have to wait until the cretin who holds the rights to the Leader/Trailer catalogues decides to release them (if ever). So far only a couple of Dransfields tracks and a Dave Burland LP have surfaced. --Stewie. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Donal Og (Young Donald) From: GUEST,Fred Date: 06 May 00 - 05:59 PM Got your message. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Donal Og (Young Donald) From: GUEST,Trevor Webster Date: 06 May 00 - 05:54 PM I have Al O'Donnell 2 on vinyl. I have been told in both England and Ireland that both 1 and 2 have been deleted. Does anyone know if they exist on tape or CD as Al O'Donnell is one of my favourite traditional singers and my album is getting worn and scratched. |
Subject: tune add: Donal Og (Young Donald) ^^ From: alison Date: 11 Dec 99 - 08:39 PM Tune for Donal Og now available at Mudcat MIDIs ^^ slainte alison |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Donal Og (Young Donald) From: Date: 10 Dec 99 - 05:23 PM To my ears, there's a slight difference between the tune published by Kennedy (and sung by Conamara Irish singers such as Máire Áine Ní Dhonnchadha and Seosamh Ó hEanaí) and that sung by Al O'Donnell. Although the Sands and Fisher families sing the Frank O'Connor translation and Al O'Donnell sings the Séamas Ennis translation, they use the same air. I think there is enough difference between the tunes Alison will get from John (for Irish language) and from Wolfgang (for English language) be worth doing midis for both. She can judge that for herself when she examines them. [I wrote this before I saw that John had posted his midi]
|
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Donal Og (Young Donald) From: John in Brisbane Date: 09 Dec 99 - 08:31 AM Sorry, should have mentioned that the version I wrote out comes from Kennedy's fine book. |
Subject: Tune Add: DONAL OG / YOUNG DONALD From: John in Brisbane Date: 09 Dec 99 - 08:27 AM Here's the toon. My email is playing up, but I'' get it to MUDI as soon as I can. REgards, John
MIDI file: donaldog.mid Timebase: 96 Text: Donal(d) Og This program is worth the effort of learning it. To download the January 15 MIDItext 98 software and get instructions on how to use it click here ABC format: X:1
|
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Donal Og (Young Donald) From: Wolfgang Date: 09 Dec 99 - 06:48 AM Fine, let's both go on, John. Wolfgang |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Donal Og (Young Donald) From: John in Brisbane Date: 09 Dec 99 - 05:06 AM Wolfgang, I'd better not deny Alison a marvellous gift from you - so please send the tape as planned, but I'll notate the tune in the next few hours. I don't know the song at all, so I'm looking forward to playing it. Regards, John |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Donal Og (Young Donald) From: Wolfgang Date: 09 Dec 99 - 04:55 AM Alan, I'll send a tape to Alison within the next two weeks with the Al O'Donnell LP on one side, both for this tune and for 'Lord Abore and Mary Flynn' (and for other beauties). Wolfgang |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Donal Og (Young Donald) From: Alan of Australia Date: 03 Dec 99 - 08:37 PM G'day, If anyone had a MIDI (or ABC or anything)go to the Mudcat MIDI site and email me a copy. I'll post it on the site.
Cheers, |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Donal Og (Young Donald) From: Gerry Date: 03 Dec 99 - 02:40 PM Chantan singer, Christine Kydd, has a good version of Donal Og in her CD 'Primary Colours'. The whole CD is very good actually. |
Subject: RE: Dónal Óg (Young Donald) From: Philippa Date: 03 Dec 99 - 01:29 PM The Seán Lucy translation is also published in S. Lucy,ed. "Love Poems of the Irish", Cork: Mercier, 1967 And I hear that Patrick Pearse also translated "Dónal Óg" |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Donal Og (Young Donald) From: Philipp Date: 26 Nov 99 - 02:39 PM Thanks, Daniel, for reminding me about Archie Fisher. On the Topic recording, The Fisher family, Joyce Fisher sings "Donal Ogue", accompanied I believe by Archie Fisher on guitar. She sings the Frank O'Connor translation, the same version Ann Sands sings with her family. I gather that O'Connor translated more verses than are sung here, because the Fisher Family album notes say that "a full version of the text can be found in Frank O'Connor's 'Kings, Lords and Commons' |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Donal Og (Young Donald) From: Liam's Brother Date: 24 Nov 99 - 06:30 PM I can add that Ray Fisher sang Donal Ogue on the Topic LP, The Fisher Family (12T137). Donal is Daniel in English. All the best, Dan |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Donal Og (Young Donald) From: Philippa Date: 24 Nov 99 - 05:18 PM The Lady Gregory translation can also be found in Kathleen Hoagland, ed. "1000 Years of Irish Poetry", Old Greenwich, Conn: Devin-Adair (out of print) |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Dónal Óg (Young Donald) From: Philippa Date: 24 Nov 99 - 02:34 PM A huge omission in my previous message! The book from which I quote some verses in Irish is Seosamh Ó Duibhgeain [spelling?], "Dónall Óg", published in Dublin (Baile Átha Cliath) by an Clóchomhar in 1960 |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Donal Og (Young Donald) From: Wolfgang Date: 24 Nov 99 - 01:39 PM Philippa, thanks so much for all these informations. Wolfgang |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Donal Og (Young Donald) From: Philippa Date: 24 Nov 99 - 01:35 PM Other translations of this song are by 1) Lady Gregory (a contempory of Yeats) - "Donall Oge", published in Brendan Kennelly, ed, "Between Innocence and Peace: Favourite Poems of Ireland", Cork: Mercier (no date given, but recent publication) 2) Seán Lucy - "Donal Ogue", published in Lucy, Unfinished Sequence", Dublin: Wolfstone, 1979 nad Seán Dunne, ed., "Poets of Munster", London: Anvil and Dingle, Co. Kerry: Brandon , 1985 Both have the verse about milking the cow; here is Lady Gregory's version: O Donall Oge, it is I would be better for you Than a high, proud, spendthrift lady: I would milk the cow, I would bring help to you; And if you were hard pressed, I would stike a blow for you. In the chapter of Munster versions in the book, I found this Irish for the above verse:: A Dhomhnall Óig, b'fhearr dhuit mise agat Ná bean uasal uaibhreach iomarcach Do chrúdhfainn bó agus do-ghéanainn cuigean duit, Is, dá mba cruaidh é, do bhuailinn buille leat.
Here is the "If you come at all, come when stars are peeping" verse in Irish, from one of the Munster versions published in (Munster is the southern-most province of Ireland.) |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Donal Og (Dónall Óg) From: Philippa Date: 05 Nov 99 - 07:28 PM sorry, I left out the third line of two verses! Ennis verse 6 ~ Fuair mé póigín is ní ó chladhaire An dara póigín ag gabháil a luí dhom An triú póigín ag gabháil a luí dom Agus murach an phóg sin bheinnse i mo mhaighdean
O'Connor Black (dubh) verse ~ |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Donal Og (Young Donald) From: Philippa Date: 05 Nov 99 - 07:15 PM Ennis verse 3 ~ Dúirt mo mhaithrín liom gun labhairt leat Inniú ná amarach nó Dé Domhnaigh Is olc an tráth a dtug sí rabhadh dhom Is é dúnadh an dorais é tar éis na foghla
Ennis verse 6 ~
another verse in the O' Connor translation is |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Donal Og (Young Donald) From: Stewie Date: 05 Nov 99 - 07:09 PM Thanks Philippa. For those who may be interested, the 'black' verse mentioned above is:
Black as the sloe is the heart that's in me For you took etc |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Dónall Óg ^^ From: Philippa Date: 05 Nov 99 - 03:17 PM The Séamas Ennis translation is close enough to the literal meaning, at least for those verses for which I have the Irish, but only two of the 4 verses on the websites (links above) are in his version. The other two verses are ones I've heard Donegal singers do (to a different air than the one used in Conamara) A Dhónaill Óig, má théir thar fharraige Beir mé féin leat 's ná deán dom dearmad Beidh agat féirín lá aonaigh 'gus margaidh Agus níon Rí Gréige mar chéile leapa 'gat is equivalent to Ennis verse 1 Gheall tú dom-sa ní nach dearn tú Fáinne óir a chur ar 'ach méar domh Seisreach óir fána hanlaí airgid Agus muileann siúchra ar 'ach sruth in Éirinn You promised me things you didn't do, to put gold rings on each of my fingers... and sugar mills on each stream in Ireland
B'fhurast dom aithne nach tú bhí i ndán dom I easily realised you weren't intended for me; you sent me out on a stormy night, ...you didn't welcome me or shake my hand
Bhain tú soir 'gus bhain tú siar dom is equivalent to the final verse in the Ennis/O'Donnell rendering
Ennis' verse 2 is verse 7 as sung by Máire Áine Ní Dhonnchadha on "Deora Aille" (Claddagh Records):
Ennis verse 4 ~ Ní Dhonnchadha verse 2:
Ennis verse 7 ~ Ní Dhonnchadha verse 3 |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Donal Og (Young Donald) From: Wolfgang Date: 05 Nov 99 - 09:49 AM Stewie, no this verse is not in my printed version. My one version is a xerox from a record cover without further information and only few verses, the other version is in Jake Walton, Keltische Folksongs, which seems to be a reliable source, as far as I can tell. The notes say Copyright Seamus Ennis, tune (and Gaelic lyrics): trad. The book gives two further recordings, The Fureys on 'A dream in my hand' and Ray Fisher (no title). I have no idea, whether additional verses have been added to the translation or whether all versions we have are just subsets of the original translation. My version from the book has this order of verses: Verse 1 (your version), verse 7, my additional verse, verse 4, verse 5, verse6, verse 8. None of these verses are identical to the ones you posted, but mostly the differences are minor. The largest difference is in your verse 7, my verse 2, which would make no sense at position 2 with O'D's words. Jake Walton prints:
Well I saw you first on a Sunday evening, Wolfgang |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Donal Og (Young Donald) From: Stewie Date: 05 Nov 99 - 09:14 AM Wolfgang, I found the McKenna version, but it's not the one I'm looking for. The McKennas have your extra verse and also the fine verse that contains the great line about 'Black as a footprint in shining hallways' which I now recall also. Isn't that in the printed version that you have? Have extra verses, possibly from the versions in Irish, been added to Ennis' translation? |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Donal Og (Young Donald) From: Stewie Date: 05 Nov 99 - 08:53 AM Thanks, Wolfgang. You are quite right - on listening to it carefully a few more times, he is saying 'you' but, on the surface, it sounds like 'he'. I know that extra stanza that you quote very well and it puzzled me why it wasn't there because I thought O'D sang it. I must have it on some version somewhere in my collection, but I don't know by whom. I had all my stuff on a database until my old computer had a complete meltdown a couple of years ago and I haven't had the inclination to do it all again. Since I have been concentrating on oldtimey over the last few years, my memory of what I have, or where, in Irish and UK material is somewhat deficient. It will probably annoy me now till I find it. Cheers, Stewie. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Donal Og (Young Donald) From: Wolfgang Date: 05 Nov 99 - 06:27 AM This is for me one of the best songs ever writting. I relistened last night Al O'Donnell singing it and it was as great as ever. BTW, Stewie, I hear the "you" in verse 6, which makes more sense and is in both written versions I have. Al O'Donnell has a strong aspiration for that syllable and it sounds more like "hue" but I'm sure he's trying to sing "you". Seamus Ennis is not just the "source" for this version, he is the author of the (this?) English translation. I have a printed version (in a German book on 'celtic' music) which has not all of the verses above, but has the following additional verse (before verse 4 above):
Oh and Donal Og you'll not find me lazy, Wolfgang |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Donal Og (Young Donald) From: johntm Date: 04 Nov 99 - 04:16 PM Joe Heaney has a version in Irish in The Best of Joe Heaney My Tradition Shanachie records |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Donal Og (Young Donald) From: Wolfgang Date: 04 Nov 99 - 09:06 AM There is a version as well (English) on the LP 'The McKenna Brothers life at O'Donoghue's'. Can't be called 'easily available' though. I prefer the Al O'Donnell version by far. Until now, I only had lyrics close to his version. Thanks a lot, Stewie, for changing this. Wolfgang |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Donal Og (Young Donald) From: Peter T. Date: 03 Nov 99 - 12:09 PM thanks for the prompt responses! I will send you a message, Stewie, if it isn't too much trouble. yours, Peter T. |
Subject: Dónal Óg From: Philippa Date: 03 Nov 99 - 09:52 AM Al O'Donnell's recording is good, all the songs on it. another English translation of Dónal Óg is sung by the Sands Family (Ann Sands sings Dónal Óg) on "You'll Be Well Looked After", EMI Green Label LEAF 7005; Gerry Shannon sings in English on "Shannon Waves" (Cló Iar-Chonnachta); June Tabor, The Peel Sessions, Strange Fruit SFPS 015; Sheila Chandra, Weaving My Ancestors' Voices Suasan McKeown on Bushes and Briars (Alula Records)(I don't know which language she sings the song in) in Irish: Seosaímhín Ní Bheaglaoich on Taobh Na Gréine-Under the Sun Breandán Ó Beaglaoich (Begley)(a brother of Seosaimhín) on We Won't Come Home 'Til Morning Kells Music Máire Aine Ní Dhonnchadha on Ceirníní Cladaigh / Claddagh Records Noirín Ní Ríain on Celtic Soul The Ulster version is quite different from the better known Conamara version. I think Daithí Sproule may have recorded it. I've heard Lilis Ó Laoire and Mairéad Ní Mhaonaigh sing it, but I don't think either of them has recorded this song. Some of the Irish language verses are at Liam Hart's pages and at this Irish Folksongs site |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Donal Og (Young Donald) From: Stewie Date: 03 Nov 99 - 09:19 AM Peter, I'm not sure. I will look for you, but none springs to mind in my collection because I felt the O'Donnell version was so good - in fact, it probably my all-time favourite folksong. I can make a tape of the O'D version for you, though, if you send me a personal message with an address. Cheers, Stewie. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Donal Og (Young Donald) From: Peter T. Date: 03 Nov 99 - 09:00 AM Lovely song -- Stewie, do you know any versions of it on record that are easily available? yours, Peter T. |
Subject: Lyr Add: DONAL OG / YOUNG DONALD^^ From: Stewie Date: 03 Nov 99 - 06:45 AM 'Donal Og' is surely one of the most moving of Irish love songs. A song of betrayal, obsession and grief – a young girl's cry as desolate as the moonscape of the Burren – and Al O'Donnell's stunning performance of it was one of the high points of the folk revival. It is a disgrace that his albums are no longer available. DONAL OG (Young Donald)
O Donal Og when you cross the ocean
O lad of fairness, O lad of redness
My mother ordered me to shun you
O you said you would meet me, but you were lying
If you come at all, come when stars are peeping
I got the first kiss and from no craven
The last time I saw you was a Sunday evening
For you took what's before me and what's behind me Traditional. Source: Al O'Donnell 'Al O'Donnell 2' The Leader Tradition LTRA 501. A version in Irish (with translation) may be found in Peter Kennedy (Ed) 'Folksongs of Great Britain and Ireland' Cassell, London 1975. One of the 'big' Gaelic songs, it is also found in Scots tradition. There are myriad versions of the song and, in fact, a book has been devoted entirely to it: 'Donal Og' by Seosamh O Duibhginn Dublin 1960. A number of translations are sung and Al learned this poignantly beautiful version from Seamus Ennis.
I not sure whether the change of person in the third last stanza was deliberate or merely a slip on the singer's part. |
Share Thread: |
Subject: | Help |
From: | |
Preview Automatic Linebreaks Make a link ("blue clicky") |