What is a Curbly / Curbly main ?

Subject: What is a Curbly / Curbly Main ?
From: GUEST,Seaking
Date: 15 Feb 13 - 03:17 PM

Matt McGinns Miners' lullaby 'Coorie Doon' refers to 'the Curbly Main'. Can anyone tell me what this is referring to please?

Thanks
Chris

Subject: RE: What is a Curbly / Curbly main ?
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Feb 13 - 03:45 PM

It is possibly a fictional name of a mine.

From the List of Scots Collieries there are several:

Ayrshire: Coylton : Littlemill district. Shieldmains Nos. 6, 7, 8, 12 and 14
Midlothian: Musselburgh : Dalkeith district. Fordel Mains

from The Scottish Mining website

http://www.scottishmining.co.uk/Indexes/1944listofmines.html

http://www.scottishmining.co.uk/Indexes/ListMines1893.html

there are other lists for 1854,1860 and 1866 as well

However there doesn't appear to be a Curbly Main listed.

My Grandfather lived in Musselburgh not far from Fordel Mains.

CC

Subject: RE: What is a Curbly / Curbly main ?
From: Anne Neilson
Date: 15 Feb 13 - 03:52 PM

The text in "McGinn of the Calton" (published by Glasgow District Libraries in1987) has it has CURLBY Main.

Like the previous poster, I always took it to refer to the name of a particular pit or mine.

Subject: RE: What is a Curbly / Curbly main ?
From: Megan L
Date: 15 Feb 13 - 03:53 PM

I havent been able to find a list of seams at the pit of coalburn in west lanarkshire to confirm it but I was told it refered to this mine. I will try some other sources to see if I can confirm or debunk it.

Subject: RE: What is a Curbly / Curbly main ?
From: GUEST,Seaking
Date: 15 Feb 13 - 04:13 PM

I'd googled the lyrics and it came up with Curbly. I listened to a very old version of this sung by Luke Kelly and it definitely sounds like he's singing Curbly. I thought perhaps Curbly may be some sort of mining slang for the thickest seam of coal, rail track, or similar, rather than a place.

Subject: RE: What is a Curbly / Curbly main ?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 15 Feb 13 - 04:21 PM

As the OP's question is 'What is ......' I take this to mean an important pit head as opposed to a subsidiary one. Some of the Yorkshire pits had 'Main' appended as in Denaby Main. But there are many others on here with more knowledge on the subject than me. Chip in, Ray!

Subject: RE: What is a Curbly / Curbly main ?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 15 Feb 13 - 04:49 PM

Just had a scan through the Scottish Mining websites and the nearest sounding name to this is 'Carberry'. However I can't find any uses of 'Main' in the Yorkshire pit context. Are you sure it doesn't say 'Mine'?

Subject: RE: What is a Curbly / Curbly main ?
From: GUEST,Lynn W
Date: 15 Feb 13 - 05:27 PM

According to this site-
http://www.mysongbook.de/msb/songs/c/cooriedo.html
-
"This was one of two songs that came out of a visit to a Yorkshire pit in 1962. (Notes Stramash, 'McGinn of the Calton')"
Perhaps when he was at Huddersfield TTC?
I don't know of a Curbly in Yorkshire but it could have been a mishearing of Kirby or he could have just made it up!

Subject: RE: What is a Curbly / Curbly main ?
From: Snuffy
Date: 15 Feb 13 - 05:37 PM

Ive always took it to be the name of the pit, which I heard (and sang) as "Coral Bay Main". Having just re-listened, it still sounds like Coral Bay to me, so it probably is Curlby. Definitely not Curbly - the L comes before the B, not after.

Subject: RE: What is a Curbly / Curbly main ?
From: Commander Crabbe
Date: 15 Feb 13 - 06:12 PM

Sorry the first guest post was me "sans cookie"

I have just listened to Matt singing it on you tube and it definitely sounds as if he is singing Carlby or Carleby.

That said. I can still find no reference to Carlby Main.

There is a village in Lincolnshire called Carlby but I haven't found any references to a coalmine near there as yet.

CC

Subject: RE: What is a Curbly / Curbly main ?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 15 Feb 13 - 06:25 PM

Nearest Yorkshire pit that sounds similar is Cadeby main.

Subject: RE: What is a Curbly / Curbly main ?
From: Commander Crabbe
Date: 15 Feb 13 - 06:30 PM

There is also:

Carlton Main, Barnsley, Yorkshire and Derbyshire Coal and Iron Co.

CC

Subject: RE: What is a Curbly / Curbly main ?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 15 Feb 13 - 07:02 PM

The book definitely says Curlby. Which isn't known to Google.

McGinn might have made it up, but pits often had familiar names that didn't appear on any map. Two in Fife (near the Frances colliery and closed around the time it opened) were affectionately known by the miners who worked them as "Hell's Arse" and "The Cunt". The local name for the Frances, the "Dubbie", doesn't appear on Google either, despite being in use for century.

Contrariwise, "Main" implies a farm, and is the sort of placename you wouldn't expect to go unrecorded if it was real. Farms are worth money and get registered.

Subject: RE: What is a Curbly / Curbly main ?
From: GUEST,Seaking
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 01:21 AM

Luke Kelly singing Coorie Doon

This is the version that triggered my original question. It's possible Luke Kelly sang his own interpretation of the song. I'm offshore so haven't got the best sound system but still sounds like 'Curbly' and 'Main'.

Interesting discussion, thanks for all the detective work.
Chris

Subject: RE: What is a Curbly / Curbly main ?
From: GEST
Date: 03 Jan 16 - 12:32 PM

From Dictionary of the Scots Language: "Main Coal - so called from its possessing all the good qualities found in any of the other strata in the country. It contains rough coal, splint, and parrot, or jet coal, and is preferred, by the consumers, to all the others, as the most profitable."

Subject: RE: What is a Curbly / Curbly main ?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 03 Jan 16 - 06:07 PM

After the early days of "bell pit" mining, the more developed collieries consisted of several pits (mineshafts) dug down to the coal seams, with different purposes. Some were for getting men (and women and children) down to the coal, and hoisting the coal they won to bank. Some were for pumping water out of the mine. Some were for ventilation. They often changed purposes over the years. The colliery was named after the most important winding pit, which was usually the founding pit of the colliery, and this was called the Main.

Good website for those who are interested.

Subject: RE: What is a Curbly / Curbly main ?
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 03 Jan 16 - 07:15 PM

South Kirkby is a town in West Yorkshire, England. In 1988, South Kirkby Colliery along with many of the other coal mines in the immediate area closed and later cleared for redevelopment. These included South Kirkby-Ferrymoor Riddings Drift, Frickley Colliery (Carlton Main), Kinsley Drift (formerly Hemsworth Colliery), and Grimethorpe Colliery.

Subject: RE: What is a Curbly / Curbly main ?
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 04 Jan 16 - 10:02 AM

Only just seen this thread SG and others ~ frankly I don't know but will see what makes sense

Curbly ~ i would hazard a guess at Coal or as we say in Barnsley Coil so simply where the coal is:

Main as is suggested here the Main or first/original shaft dug and giving access to the coal seam

Ray

could be wrong research needed

Subject: RE: What is a Curbly / Curbly main ?
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 04 Jan 16 - 10:17 AM

From the context of the song Curbly could easily convey a "comfortable" position, as imagined by the mother to her child where she thinks her husband is working and equates that with the childs warm bed ~ to get the child to sleep!

Ray

Subject: RE: What is a Curbly / Curbly main ?
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 04 Jan 16 - 10:51 AM

Steve Gardham: However I can't find any uses of 'Main' in the Yorkshire pit context. Are you sure it doesn't say 'Mine'?

There were many "Main" shafts or collieries in Yorkshire:

- Markham Main
- Maltby Main
- Dinnington Main
- Edlington Main

to name just a few, and others further north in Durham etc such as:

- Tyne Main
- Bewick Main

A lot of collieries had Main seams or shafts, even if there was no "Main" in the colliery name. It was a very common appellation in northern coalfields.

I strongly suspect he was referring to the main seam at South Kirkby colliery, which was running at the time of McGinn's visit to a "Yorkshire mine in 1962"...South Kirkby's quite close to Huddersfield.

Subject: RE: What is a Curbly / Curbly main ?
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 05 Jan 16 - 03:23 AM

Yes yes Rob ~ Main is a common addition as in Barnsley Main just a 15 mins walk from where I live ~ but WHY Main was my concern, cannot find an explantion as to why some had Main and others not, I suggest it was the parent/original/first/main shaft sunk and which could well have access by the cage/pit head to the coal workings ~ many pits also had underground access to other pits

Grimethorpe and Ferrymore I believe were close to each other and North Gawber and Woolley were also

By why some Main and others not?

Ray

Subject: RE: What is a Curbly / Curbly main ?
From: GEST
Date: 05 Jan 16 - 11:36 AM

@Ray ~ From Dictionary of the Scots Language: "Main coal - so called from its possessing all the good qualities found in any of the other strata in the country. It contains rough coal, splint, and parrot, or jet coal, and is preferred, by the consumers, to all the others, as the most profitable. Kirkby Main makes sense to me.

Subject: RE: What is a Curbly / Curbly main ?
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 06 Jan 16 - 02:18 AM

Yes Gest, makes sense Main being first or best quality and so where the pit head was sunk, presumably after some research

Ray

so what in the context of the song?