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BS: Prisoner X - an Australian prisoner dies

freda underhill 17 Feb 13 - 06:40 PM
GUEST,999 17 Feb 13 - 07:49 PM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 18 Feb 13 - 06:41 AM
Dead Horse 18 Feb 13 - 06:34 PM
freda underhill 19 Feb 13 - 04:16 AM
GUEST,999 19 Feb 13 - 12:12 PM

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Subject: BS: Prisoner X - an Australian prisoner dies
From: freda underhill
Date: 17 Feb 13 - 06:40 PM

Julian Assange, David Hicks, Mamdouh Habib and now Prisoner X - Australians in overseas jails don't get much help from Australia.

Australians first heard about Prisoner X last week - two years after he died in an overseas prison. Australian diplomats seem to universally avoid any sensitive or challenging situation that Australians find themselves in overseas. He was unrepresented and his existence was unknown to the Australian people. By all accounts, he was a kind-hearted family man, loved by his friends and family. Knesset Member Eitan Cabel said the defence establishment had questions to answer over making "people vanish".

Prisoner X turned out to be Ben Zygier, a Jewish Australia who disappeared two and a half years ago. Zygier was recruited by Mossad sometime in 2001 but was allegedly speaking with ASIO (Australia's internal intellegence agency) about Mossad's practice of using fake Australian passports for espionage operations when he was arrested.

n his first public comment on the death of Mr Zygier, Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu defended the country's security services and warned that "the over-exposure of security and intelligence activity could harm, sometimes severely, state security".

"We are not like other countries ... we are more threatened and face more challenges; therefore, we must maintain proper activity of our security agencies," he said after the government's weekly cabinet meeting on Sunday, describing the security forces as operating with "endless dedication and commitment" to Israel's safety.

In Australia, ASIO has the same attitude.

While governments hold pseudo enquiries, security agencies around the world now have powers to act outside any legal framework. They are completely unaccountable and therefore any torture, death or abuse that happens under their watch cannot be investigated, challenged or punished. As soon as someone is labelled a security risk or terrorist, they are fair game.

It may be that cover-ups are about protecting a country's security. They could also be about protecting mistakes and abuse by agencies from being investigated, but we will ne4ver no. There needs to be a security ombudsman in every country, with powers to fully investigated claims of torture, disappearance and unlawful detention.


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Subject: RE: BS: Prisoner X - an Australian prisoner dies
From: GUEST,999
Date: 17 Feb 13 - 07:49 PM

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:S3930:


Been law in the USA for seven years now, but no one is concerned.


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Subject: RE: BS: Prisoner X - an Australian prisoner dies
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 18 Feb 13 - 06:41 AM

""We are not like other countries ... we are more threatened and face more challenges; therefore, we must maintain proper activity of our security agencies,""

To include taking any action, internationally legal or not, which we choose. In short we do as we like, and the rest of the world can like it or lump it!

Certainly the most arrogant national government since 1945.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Prisoner X - an Australian prisoner dies
From: Dead Horse
Date: 18 Feb 13 - 06:34 PM

"Certainly the most arrogant national government since 1945."
I could name about 2 dozen that would vie for that award mate.


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Subject: RE: BS: Prisoner X - an Australian prisoner dies
From: freda underhill
Date: 19 Feb 13 - 04:16 AM

Thanks for the link, Bruce. I think most security agencies have this view Don, frustrating as it is. I agree, Dead Horse, I don't think it's an Israel problem, I think it's a security agency problem. They all interact with each other and their info sharing is based on assurances of secrecy.

These international security agencies have too much power and no accountability. I hope the day comes when they are constrained by the law as the police are, and when they have to prove their concerns using a legal format, including natural justice/ procedural fairness for the suspects. At present, they can commit abuses, travesties of justice, and no-one will ever know.

I feel for this man's family, they had to quietly bury him without the usual honours and remembrances that the departed are entitled to.


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Subject: RE: BS: Prisoner X - an Australian prisoner dies
From: GUEST,999
Date: 19 Feb 13 - 12:12 PM

A thread you may wish to see follows. Notice that most of the posters didn't seem to mind the National Defense Authorization Act.

thread.cfm?threadid=142509


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Mudcat time: 18 May 1:28 AM EDT

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