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BS: Let's hope this isn't true...

alanabit 28 Feb 13 - 05:43 AM
GUEST,999 28 Feb 13 - 10:15 AM
artbrooks 28 Feb 13 - 10:40 AM
Bill D 28 Feb 13 - 10:45 AM
Ebbie 28 Feb 13 - 10:49 AM
Wolfhound person 28 Feb 13 - 11:38 AM
MGM·Lion 28 Feb 13 - 12:33 PM
Ebbie 28 Feb 13 - 01:17 PM
MGM·Lion 28 Feb 13 - 01:45 PM
gnu 28 Feb 13 - 02:28 PM
Bill D 28 Feb 13 - 06:05 PM
Greg F. 28 Feb 13 - 07:16 PM
MGM·Lion 01 Mar 13 - 12:47 AM
GUEST,Rog Peek 01 Mar 13 - 04:11 AM
MGM·Lion 01 Mar 13 - 04:49 AM
alanabit 01 Mar 13 - 05:42 AM
Rog Peek 01 Mar 13 - 07:09 AM
MGM·Lion 01 Mar 13 - 11:15 AM
Bill D 01 Mar 13 - 11:56 AM
GUEST,skivee-guesting in 02 Mar 13 - 01:39 AM
Don Firth 02 Mar 13 - 01:52 AM
MGM·Lion 02 Mar 13 - 01:57 AM

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Subject: BS: Let's hope this isn't true...
From: alanabit
Date: 28 Feb 13 - 05:43 AM

This is how religious nutcases think you should deal with a severely traumatised fifteen year old girl. I hope this story is not true, but I fear that it is: Rape Victim to be Flogged

I have seen this reported from more than one source, so I fear the worst.


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Subject: RE: BS: Let's hope this isn't true...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 28 Feb 13 - 10:15 AM

Go to News and enter the following:

Maldives, rape and sharia law

It brings up many good newspapers/agencies with the story.

They call that law?


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Subject: RE: BS: Let's hope this isn't true...
From: artbrooks
Date: 28 Feb 13 - 10:40 AM

This situation is unfortunately not unusual in many places where Islamic fundamentalists have imposed their own version of Sharia.


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Subject: RE: BS: Let's hope this isn't true...
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Feb 13 - 10:45 AM

Anytime a country allows religion to determine the basic approach to morality, crime, punishment, and general societal morés, there WILL be unfair treatment and abuses. Only the details and severity will vary.

I repeat for perhaps the 27th time:

From false premises, anything follows.


I don't know the solution.... I suppose only time & education will do anything.


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Subject: RE: BS: Let's hope this isn't true...
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Feb 13 - 10:49 AM

"The local Haveeru newspaper quoted an unnamed official from the prosecutor's office saying that the fornication charge was unrelated to the rape which had been separately dealt with." From the link

The story is bad enough without adding sensationalism.


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Subject: RE: BS: Let's hope this isn't true...
From: Wolfhound person
Date: 28 Feb 13 - 11:38 AM

I suppose getting tourists to boycott the Maldives, and say why, would be a start of a way to go, but how.....

Paws


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Subject: RE: BS: Let's hope this isn't true...
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Feb 13 - 12:33 PM

What 'sensationalism' has been expressed which you object to, Ebbie?

~MichaeL~


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Subject: RE: BS: Let's hope this isn't true...
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Feb 13 - 01:17 PM

Not 'expressed', exactly, but to my mind it is implied that the rape victim is threatened with flogging because she was raped.


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Subject: RE: BS: Let's hope this isn't true...
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Feb 13 - 01:45 PM

Not this time ~~ though such an outcome has been known, in Islamist N Nigeria IIRC, whence I recall reports a few years ago of a girl who had given birth as a result of rape being publicly punished with 100 cane strokes on her bare buttocks. But in this instance, it appears that the previous unchastity was discovered as a result of the rape investigation: a time when, even if she had previously had intercourse, surely some regard should have been paid to her obviously traumatised instant condition?

~M~


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Subject: RE: BS: Let's hope this isn't true...
From: gnu
Date: 28 Feb 13 - 02:28 PM

That's the way I read it too. However, the lash or cane is still barbaric.

"In September, a Maldivian court ordered a public flogging for a 16-year-old girl who confessed to having pre-marital sex. Her 29-year-old lover was sentenced to 10 years in prison."

Ditto.


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Subject: RE: BS: Let's hope this isn't true...
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Feb 13 - 06:05 PM

In some cultures, rape & abuse are ... ummm.. 'tolerated' by perpetuating the attitude that women who are raped somehow deserve it by being tempting..etc... and that men somehow must be excused because of their 'needs'. This allows abuse to be continued, as most men feel safe from blame. Any male in position of authority has either been guilty themselves or has friends or relatives who they wish to protect.... thus, it takes a LOT of pressure and bravery for courts or police to take action.


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Subject: RE: BS: Let's hope this isn't true...
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Feb 13 - 07:16 PM

And, of course, only Muslim fundamentalists - and not Christian [sic] fundagelicals or loonies of any religious delusion you care to name - are responsible for these sorts of atrocities?

Gimmie a break, willya?


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Subject: RE: BS: Let's hope this isn't true...
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 01 Mar 13 - 12:47 AM

There aren't many of those in control of state governments, GregF, so that such abuses are judicially committed with the full force of the law, as in Saudi, Mali, N Nigeria, Maldives, parts of Malaysia... Give us a break right back, eh!

~M~


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Subject: RE: BS: Let's hope this isn't true...
From: GUEST,Rog Peek
Date: 01 Mar 13 - 04:11 AM

Not too long ago of course and not a million miles away in a christian country, young girls were 'sentenced' without trial, to an indeterminate term of hard labour for the crime of being raped, and far less. Wickedness and evil perpetrated in the name of religion it seems knows no bounds.

Rog


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Subject: RE: BS: Let's hope this isn't true...
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 01 Mar 13 - 04:49 AM

Yes, we all know about Magdalene Laundries, which survived into the 1980s, godhelpus. But 'whataboutery' is a vain pursuit. If there is anyone who can't see

that adducing the occasional abuse of that sort as some sort of justification for the persistently ongoing institutionalised persecution and punishment of young women in Islamic countries where Sharia Law is dominant, for 'offences' which are not even illegal in most parts of the world,

goes no distance whatsoever to justifying such persecution's continuance with almost no kind of protest from the worldwide community [we need their bloody oil, don't we!], then I greatly pity such a person's lack of proportionate perception of reality.

~M~


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Subject: RE: BS: Let's hope this isn't true...
From: alanabit
Date: 01 Mar 13 - 05:42 AM

Indeed MGM.
And Ebbie, this time, I don't think that the case has been sensationalised at all. The point about the rape (probably true - but not certain) is that this unfortunate teenage girl has born and lost a child and is clearly (rape or no rape) in a desperate situation. To flog anyone involves a debasement of our own basic humanity. Flogging a traumatised teenager beggars belief for most of us - as I am sure it does for you.
This girl is being picked on by the lowest dregs of humanity - and that is so clear that it is impossible to defend the beasts who are doing it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Let's hope this isn't true...
From: Rog Peek
Date: 01 Mar 13 - 07:09 AM

MGtM, I'm diappointed you should have interpreted my comments as "justification for the persistantly ongoing persecution and punishment of young women in Islamic countries......". I abhore and condemn this sort of abuse, no matter where it takes place and by whom. Unfortunately, it is all too often perpetrated in the name of religion.

"....into the 80s." I believe the last Magdalane Laundry closed in 1996, and furthermore, it surprises me that you describe it as "occasional abuse"!

Rog


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Subject: RE: BS: Let's hope this isn't true...
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 01 Mar 13 - 11:15 AM

I meant 'occasional' in the sense that such abuses, while lamentable, are not as widespread in some parts of the world as in others. I was not suggesting that the abuse which occurred within them was not unhappily perpetual.

Unacceptable practices committed in the name of religion are unfortunately far too widespread indeed, and I agree not only in one religion. But I still maintain that there is one influential and large segment of one particular religion in which they seem to far too great an extent to be one of the faith's raisons-d'être, rather than an exception to its generally declared intention or modus operandi; and that an element of false equivalence may be suggested by making the comparison without sufficient moderation or qualification.

~M~


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Subject: RE: BS: Let's hope this isn't true...
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Mar 13 - 11:56 AM

As I re-read this today, a line I remember from many years ago popped into my head.

"Men- if you want to marry a virgin, LEAVE SOME!"


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Subject: RE: BS: Let's hope this isn't true...
From: GUEST,skivee-guesting in
Date: 02 Mar 13 - 01:39 AM

My recollection is that 100 honest strokes would more than kill a sailor.
If that is correct the woman is being sentenced to death.


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Subject: RE: BS: Let's hope this isn't true...
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 Mar 13 - 01:52 AM

I've got to agree with alanabit here. This is barbaric!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Let's hope this isn't true...
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 02 Mar 13 - 01:57 AM

If you see the videos made of such punishments on some such website as Corpun (which considers the topic of judicial castigations in a serious and non-sensational and non-exploitative fashion), you will find that the cane strokes are fairly moderately administered, to hurt enough that the offender will know she is being caned, but not to injure seriously; humiliation [the public punishment on the bare seat] rather than intense pain seems to be the object; certainly to cause no danger of death or even serious injury. The full-force lashes of the 'cat' given in olden times to soldiers and sailors were of quite a different, and in no way comparable, order of severity.


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