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Question, Kishman's galley

Related threads:
(origins) Help: Who Was Kishmul? (Kishmul's/Riever's Galley) (29)
Req: Kishmals/Kushmels/Kishmul's/Kishmael's Galley (20)
Lyr Req: Kishmules Galley? / Kishmul's Galley (39)
Lyr req: Kishmul's Galley (22)


GUEST 06 Mar 13 - 07:14 AM
Dave MacKenzie 06 Mar 13 - 12:39 PM
Paul Reade 06 Mar 13 - 01:57 PM
GUEST,DonMeixner 06 Mar 13 - 02:50 PM
Dave MacKenzie 06 Mar 13 - 04:29 PM
Lighter 06 Mar 13 - 06:01 PM
Allan Conn 06 Mar 13 - 06:27 PM
Tattie Bogle 06 Mar 13 - 07:12 PM
kendall 06 Mar 13 - 07:19 PM
Lighter 06 Mar 13 - 09:33 PM
Rumncoke 07 Mar 13 - 04:12 AM
kendall 07 Mar 13 - 06:26 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 07 Mar 13 - 06:52 AM
Peterr 07 Mar 13 - 07:02 AM
Lighter 07 Mar 13 - 07:41 AM
Jack Campin 07 Mar 13 - 07:45 AM
Megan L 07 Mar 13 - 09:13 AM
Lighter 07 Mar 13 - 09:58 AM
Tattie Bogle 07 Mar 13 - 10:12 AM
Megan L 07 Mar 13 - 01:38 PM
GUEST 07 Mar 13 - 03:16 PM
McGrath of Harlow 07 Mar 13 - 04:31 PM
GUEST 07 Mar 13 - 07:21 PM
McGrath of Harlow 07 Mar 13 - 08:53 PM
kendall 08 Mar 13 - 06:50 AM
Roger the Skiffler 08 Mar 13 - 08:38 AM
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Subject: Question, Kishman's galley
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Mar 13 - 07:14 AM

What is the point of this song? It seems like that tv show, Seinfeld.


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Subject: RE: Question, Kishman's galley
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 06 Mar 13 - 12:39 PM

What's the point of this question, and which song to you mean? Kishmul's Galley?


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Subject: RE: Question, Kishman's galley
From: Paul Reade
Date: 06 Mar 13 - 01:57 PM

Why should any song have to have a "point" - surely it's just the composer / singer expressing how he / she feels?


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Subject: RE: Question, Kishman's galley
From: GUEST,DonMeixner
Date: 06 Mar 13 - 02:50 PM

If your larger question was "What is the point of Seinfeld?" I am with you. I never saw a point to it. As I remember it was funny twice, once involving wheelchairs and scooters. Some folks were entertained by it. I never was.

Regards Kishmul's Galley as done by The Corries(?). Maybe no point either but Roy Williamson was so much fun to watch play and to hear him and Ronnie singing harmony was always a lesson in singing. Not my favorite Corrie's song by a long shot but better than many others.

Don


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Subject: RE: Question, Kishman's galley
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 06 Mar 13 - 04:29 PM

Kishmul's Galley is a Marjory Kennedy-Fraser arrangement of a traditional waulking-song, for which the raison-d'etre is to provide a rhytmic framework to a traditional occupation.


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Subject: RE: Question, Kishman's galley
From: Lighter
Date: 06 Mar 13 - 06:01 PM

> surely it's just the composer / singer expressing how he / she feels?

In that case, why should we care? I know how *I* feel ar all times, but I'm much too considerate to demand that others pay attention.

Much more here: thread.cfm?threadid=8189


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Subject: RE: Question, Kishman's galley
From: Allan Conn
Date: 06 Mar 13 - 06:27 PM

I for one don't understand the question. Why would anyone think this particular song was any more or less pointless than any amount of other songs?


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Subject: RE: Question, Kishman's galley
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 06 Mar 13 - 07:12 PM

Try this version in Gaelic: nice pics of Kishmul's Castle at Castlebay on Barra:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrWpWsLgsvE
You can also find the Corrie's version on Youtube and various others, as well as stuff about Kishmul's Castle on Wikipedia. After that and reading the earlier thread, you might start to see the point, Guest!


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Subject: RE: Question, Kishman's galley
From: kendall
Date: 06 Mar 13 - 07:19 PM

I once sang "Lonesome Robin" in a group and a guy remarked, "Why would anyone write such a song"? It's one of my favorites but it didn't do a thing for him.

I prefer songs that have something of interest to say, a story to tell, a look into an historical event.
I like the Corries but Kishman's Galley is not one of my favorites. Hearing the Gaelic version didn't help.


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Subject: RE: Question, Kishman's galley
From: Lighter
Date: 06 Mar 13 - 09:33 PM

It may be sheer coincidence, but the opening bars of MKF's "Kishmulm" sped up, sound a lot like the major theme of Richard Rodgers' "Victory at Sea."


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Subject: RE: Question, Kishman's galley
From: Rumncoke
Date: 07 Mar 13 - 04:12 AM

It is one of the earliest songs I wrote down, but in my youth I was a stick and rag sailor - there was a motor but it was not reliable so we were at the mercy of wind and tide - reaching our mooring after a trip was sometimes a relief, though always tinged with some regret.

The song makes my heart leap - what other reason could a song need to be sung?


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Subject: RE: Question, Kishman's galley
From: kendall
Date: 07 Mar 13 - 06:26 AM

Thats reason enough. If everyone liked the same thing we would run out of chocolate ice cream in a week.


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Subject: RE: Question, Kishman's galley
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 07 Mar 13 - 06:52 AM

I was baffled by the question too. There's a lovely harp arrangement of it by the fine Scottish harpist and teacher Jean Campbell, which my students all like. I wonder if the fact that it's an instrumental version exempts it from the charge of lacking a "point" since it also lacks words?

But - the power of Mudcat - even an apparently pointless *thread* can generate interesting and worthwhile responses. Still no wiser as to what the problem is though...


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Subject: RE: Question, Kishman's galley
From: Peterr
Date: 07 Mar 13 - 07:02 AM

I've loved this song since hearing Sean Cannon perform it , pre-Dubliners. Point? The words I know are welcoming a galley home.
Thanks Tattiebogle for pointing to the Gaelic, lovely singing.


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Subject: RE: Question, Kishman's galley
From: Lighter
Date: 07 Mar 13 - 07:41 AM

Tunes don't need a point.

Words do.

Just sayin'.

However, the words of "Kishmul's Galley" are not at all pointless, as most everyone here agrees.


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Subject: RE: Question, Kishman's galley
From: Jack Campin
Date: 07 Mar 13 - 07:45 AM

Maybe the problem is that the point is not something people want to have sung at them. This song is at least as gratuitously amoral as anything in rap. When I hear it I think, why would anybody ever want to glorify people like that?


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Subject: RE: Question, Kishman's galley
From: Megan L
Date: 07 Mar 13 - 09:13 AM

One of the few things I like about mudcat is that ocassionally it gets me asking questions, this time it was the word hoop among what was obviously parts of a ship that was answered by this site Birlinn

Now I am trying to figure out the reference to Benachie which is a hill in aberdeenshire which makes no sense if the watcher was looking at its return to kisimul castle on the island of Barra. Strangely there is a Bara Castle not far from Benachie in Oldmeldrum but the castle is not on the coast. oh the joys of going round in circles


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Subject: RE: Question, Kishman's galley
From: Lighter
Date: 07 Mar 13 - 09:58 AM

Jack, it depends on what you mean by "glorify." That suggests to me exalting a certain kind of person or behavior as exemplary and worth emulating.

Does "Kishmul" really persuade anybody, today, to set out to be a sea raider? I doubt it. Flora MacNeil, who knew the song for decades, seemed pretty peaceable. As far as I know.

It's just pretend. Moreover, the song celebrates the power of the waves, the appeal of feasting, the sight of local "heroes" successfully battling the elements at a time and place when the number of hero candidates to choose from was limited. The melody makes it all seem beautiful.

Now, if the song celebrated killing and raping and abusing and drug dealing and generally sociopathic attitudes, I'd agree that it was offensive, no matter what century it was set in. If the song praised Kishmul's men for laughing as they lopped off innocent heads, I'd say the song was sick.

But it doesn't. It's just brave guys in a boat. As a music-lover, what the real Kishmul may have been like is of no importance to me. Except for a few specialists, most of us don't know or care who Kishmul was.

On the other hand, if it were Hitler or Stalin in the boat, that would be different, because everybody knows - and many can remember personally - what Hitler and Stalin were like. In a contemporary context, that alone would suggest the song was bizarrely "glorifying" them.

When people say they're offended or irritated by art, I believe them. But I don't see anything offensive, or that urges the rich pirate oppressor lifestyle on me, in the song itself.

Just my two cents.


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Subject: RE: Question, Kishman's galley
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 07 Mar 13 - 10:12 AM

if you go back to the other threads on KISHMUL'S (not Kishman's!) Galley, it's actually Beinn A' Cheathaich (which might be pronounced as Benachie) and means Misty Mountain.
If you want to go back a bit further than Marjorie Kennedy-Fraser, here is the song from which Kishmul's Galley was probably derived:
http://www.tobarandualchais.co.uk/en/fullrecord/24097/8;jsessionid=C0743594FFFEB061E5D693912BB1BA55


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Subject: RE: Question, Kishman's galley
From: Megan L
Date: 07 Mar 13 - 01:38 PM

Thanks lass thats cleared that up


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Subject: RE: Question, Kishman's galley
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Mar 13 - 03:16 PM

Different strokes for different folks. It's really that simple.

Analyzing a joke to see why it is funny is like dissecting a frog to see how it jumps. You may learn something in the process, but it's tough on the subject.


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Subject: RE: Question, Kishman's galley
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Mar 13 - 04:31 PM

What a strange thread. Why should anyone question what is the point of a welcome home, let's celebrate song ?


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Subject: RE: Question, Kishman's galley
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Mar 13 - 07:21 PM

Things are only strange to those who don't understand.


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Subject: RE: Question, Kishman's galley
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Mar 13 - 08:53 PM

Sometimes the closer to understanding you get, the stranger it gets.


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Subject: RE: Question, Kishman's galley
From: kendall
Date: 08 Mar 13 - 06:50 AM

That's for sure.


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Subject: RE: Question, Kishman's galley
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 08 Mar 13 - 08:38 AM

Probably best played using a Fishmule's pickup!

RtS


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