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BS: Translations

Rana 04 Nov 99 - 08:07 AM
Wolfgang 04 Nov 99 - 08:13 AM
Rana 04 Nov 99 - 09:40 AM
sophocleese 04 Nov 99 - 09:50 AM
Rana 04 Nov 99 - 10:33 AM
lamarca 04 Nov 99 - 11:09 AM
katlaughing 04 Nov 99 - 03:03 PM
Micca 04 Nov 99 - 04:19 PM
Wolfgang 05 Nov 99 - 06:33 AM
Micca 05 Nov 99 - 07:11 AM
Wolfgang 05 Nov 99 - 11:00 AM
Murray on Saltspring 05 Nov 99 - 01:04 PM
Joe Offer 05 Nov 99 - 01:07 PM
Micca 05 Nov 99 - 01:54 PM
sophocleese 05 Nov 99 - 03:18 PM
Murray on Saltspring 05 Nov 99 - 05:24 PM
sophocleese 05 Nov 99 - 05:30 PM
Wolfgang 07 Nov 99 - 03:55 PM
Freddie Fox 07 Nov 99 - 05:03 PM
Escamillo 08 Nov 99 - 04:26 AM
Micca 08 Nov 99 - 09:16 AM
MMario 08 Nov 99 - 10:01 AM
McGrath of Harlow 08 Nov 99 - 02:35 PM
Mark Cohen 08 Nov 99 - 11:33 PM

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Subject: Translations
From: Rana
Date: 04 Nov 99 - 08:07 AM

I was just curious how the translation routine worked, so I chose a passage (apologies if necessary to the author), translated into French, and then back to English.

This is the final result

The street Patrick was not " English ", he was the " English ". The " English " (who " Saxon " called it British) had only arrived just to Great Britain at the medium of life of street Patrick (circa 385 - the circa 461 -- that I am not held on the obiit in theory 491.) In the same way in its life " Scotus " meant " Irishman " independently from where Irishman lived (if in Ireland or Great Britain). To say thus that Patrick was removed by slavers of " Scots " is only as long truth as no correspondence towards Scotland (which did not exist yet) is implied.

The street Patrick, in his writings, is considered Christian initially, the second Roman, and English third. Thus in its life the English were still Roman, though the emperor did not have direct authority in Great Britain of it since the 400' S early.

and this is the original

St. Patrick was not "English", he was "British". The "English" (whom the British called "Saxons") were only just arriving in Britain in the middle of St. Patrick's lifetime (circa 385 - circa 461--I don't hold to the obiit in 491 theory.) Similarly in his lifetime "Scotus" meant "Irishman" regardless of where the Irishman lived (whether inIreland or in Britain). So to say that Patrick was kidnapped by "Scots" slavers is true only as long as no connection to Scotland (which did not yet exist) is implied.

St. Patrick, in his writings, considers himself Christian first, Roman second, and British third. So in his lifetime the British were still Roman, even though the Emperor hadn't had any direct authority in Britain since the early 400's. ld be called and "English" town

Rana


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Subject: RE: BS: Translations
From: Wolfgang
Date: 04 Nov 99 - 08:13 AM

That's fun, Rana, click Klementine for further laughs of the same kind.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Translations
From: Rana
Date: 04 Nov 99 - 09:40 AM

Hi Wolfgang, Thanks for the link - I had just started my vacation then and totally missed the thread. Oh well, I've been scooped on this idea!

It does remind me of a story in the Book of Failures of a French man, I believe, who published an English Spanish dictionary, not being able to speak either language. He used existing French-English, French-Spanish dictionaries.

(I may have the countries wrong 'cos I lent the book out to someone (who I forget) and it wasn't returned.

Rana


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Subject: RE: BS: Translations
From: sophocleese
Date: 04 Nov 99 - 09:50 AM

I have The Book of Heroic Failures, the most inspiring book on my shelves, and it lists Pedro Carolino as one of the all time greats. He wrote an English - Portugese phrasebook with very little knowledge of English. The Book of Heroic Failures gives these phrases as examples; "Dress your hairs. This hat go well. Undress you to. Exculpate me by your brother's. She make the prude. He has tost his all good. " He has a section called 'Idiotisms and proverbs': "Nothing some money, nothing of Swiss. He eat to coaches. The stone as roll not heap up not foam." And finally my favourite "To craunch a marmoset." Apparently he used a Portugese -French dictionary and a French - English one.


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Subject: RE: BS: Translations
From: Rana
Date: 04 Nov 99 - 10:33 AM

Hi Sophocleese,

This was indeed the example I was thinking about - now if only I could find another copy of it.

Rana


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Subject: RE: BS: Translations
From: lamarca
Date: 04 Nov 99 - 11:09 AM

I think Mark Twain wrote a parody of such a work, called "English As She Is Spoke". I have vague memories of giggling my way through the first several pages, but being unable to finish it due to hysterical tremors and a short attention span...


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Subject: RE: BS: Translations
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Nov 99 - 03:03 PM

You can find a copy of that book HERE.


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Subject: RE: BS: Translations
From: Micca
Date: 04 Nov 99 - 04:19 PM

I dont know if this counts as a translation but it has amused me since I found it I dont know if the formatting will work

.

DER JAMMERWOCH
Es brillig war. Die schlichte Toven
Wirrten und wimmelten in Waben;
Und aller-mumSige Burggoven
Die mohmen Rath' ausgraben.

Bewahre doch vor Jammerwoch!
Die Zahne knirschen, Krallen kratzen!
Bewahr' vor Jubjub-Vogel,
Vor Frumiosen Banderschnatzchen!

Er griff sein vorpals Schwertchen zu,
Er suchte lang das manchsam' Ding;
Dann, stehend unten Tumtum Baum,
Er an-zu-denken-fing.

Als stand er tief in Andacht auf,
Des Jammerwochen's Augen-feuer
Durch tulgen Wald mit wiffeln kam
Ein burbelnd Ungeheuer .

Eins, zwei! Eins, zwei ! Und durch und durch
Sein vorpals Schwert zerschnifer-schnUck,
Da blieb es todt! Er, kopf in Hand,
Gelaumfig zog zuruck. .

Und schlugst Du ja den Jammerwoch ?
Umarme mich, mein BOhm'sches Kind!
0 Freuden-Tag! 0 Halloo-Schlag!
Er chortelt froh-gesinnt.

Es brillig war, &c.

Macmillan's Magazine, Feb. I872

(This version of Jabberwocky appears in a letter signed , Thomas Chatterton', and has been attributed to Dr. RobertScott, then Dean of Rochester.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Translations
From: Wolfgang
Date: 05 Nov 99 - 06:33 AM

Retranslation of the 'German' Jabberwocky into 'English' Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Translations
From: Micca
Date: 05 Nov 99 - 07:11 AM

ROFLMAO Many thanks Wolfgang the transalator probably would have done a better job if I could have included the Umlauts. nd where it didn't get a word its probably because of Caroll and his "translator2 using nonsense or "made up" words. Many thanks for a good laugh .I will preserve this with my copy of the original. Micca


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Subject: RE: BS: Translations
From: Wolfgang
Date: 05 Nov 99 - 11:00 AM

The European Union commissioners have announced that an agreement has been reached to adopt English as the preferred language for European communications, rather than German, which was the other possibilty.

As part of the negotiations, Her Majesty's Government conceded that English spelling had some room for improvement and has accepted a five-year phased plan for what will be known as EuroEnglish (Euro for short). In the first year, "s' will be used instead of the soft "c". Sertainly sivil servants will resieve this news with joy. Also, the hard "c" will be replaced with "k". Not only will this klear up konfusion, but typewriters kan have one letter less.

There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year, when the troublesome "ph" will be replaced by "f". This will make words like "fotograf' 20 per sent shorter. In the third year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expekted to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are possible. Governments will enkourage the removal of double letters, which have always ben a deterent to akurate speling.

Also, al wil agre that the horible mes of silent "e"s in the languag is disgrasful, and they would go. By the fourth year, peopl wil be reseptiv to steps such as replasing "th" by z" and "w" by v. During ze fifz year ze unesesary "o" kan be dropd from vords kontaining "ou', and similar changes vud of kors be aplid to ozer kombinations of leters. After zis fifz yer, ve vil hav a reli sensibl riten styl.

Zer vil be no mor trubls or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi tu understand ech ozer. Ze drem vil finali kum tru.


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Subject: RE: BS: Translations
From: Murray on Saltspring
Date: 05 Nov 99 - 01:04 PM

Stimulating discussion! But what the DICKENS is "To craunch a marmoset"???


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Subject: RE: BS: Translations
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Nov 99 - 01:07 PM

Gee, Wolfgang, your final product sounds like American actors trying to sound like Germans in TV comedies like "Hogan's Heroes." Truly frightening, but darn funny....
OK, now tell us - did you make that up yourself, Wolfgang?
-Joe Offer, chortling-


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Subject: RE: BS: Translations
From: Micca
Date: 05 Nov 99 - 01:54 PM

In the version of the story about the Portugese-French-English Translation story that I have, it included (as well as the "craunch a Marmoset", I don't know what it means either) the immortal phrase "he will be pleased to slay you up a wish". I just love this word play!! It also reminds me of a news story shown on the BBC a few years ago when a pointed question about mainland China's attitude to Taiwan and whether they wanted to reunite the island with the mainland politically, was asked by the interviewer, The Beijing official answered for about a minute with much gesturing. The interpreter listened and translated "No"


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Subject: RE: BS: Translations
From: sophocleese
Date: 05 Nov 99 - 03:18 PM

To craunch is to grind with the teeth, to munch, to pulverize (I'm getting this from websters and something else that I've forgotten). I hope this clears up the meaning of this well known and familiar phrase.


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Subject: RE: BS: Translations
From: Murray on Saltspring
Date: 05 Nov 99 - 05:24 PM

Okay, Soph, but doesn't explain the marmoset.


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Subject: RE: BS: Translations
From: sophocleese
Date: 05 Nov 99 - 05:30 PM

marmoset; n. small, tropical Amer. monkey of family Callithricidae, with bushy tail. {f. OF marmouset; grotesque image, of unkn. origin}

This was from the Shorter Oxford Dictionary. Is everything clear now?

I thought politicians throughout the world used the expression whenever they were talking of dire financial straits. We'll be craunching marmosets soon if we don't cut welfare payments etc.


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Subject: RE: BS: Translations
From: Wolfgang
Date: 07 Nov 99 - 03:55 PM

Joe, no, I found it but I forgot where. Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Translations
From: Freddie Fox
Date: 07 Nov 99 - 05:03 PM

The proverb 'out of sight out of mind' was translated into Russian, and came back as 'invisible idiot'...

You should try instruction books for foreign makes of washing machines, though.


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Subject: RE: BS: Translations
From: Escamillo
Date: 08 Nov 99 - 04:26 AM

You are so lucky not having to suffer the incredible translations (supposedly professional) from English to Spanish, in almost all the so-called cultural TV channels. These are some examples from HBO, Discovery channel, and others:
- Those primitive tribes had made mention to their sacred star, which turned to be the SERIOUS BEE (La abeja seria), (for SIRIUS B, the companion star to Sirius which is a binary star system)
- These airplane carriers weigh up to 90 tons (for 90,000 tons)
- Now we put a TV screen in front of the flame, and... (for a fabric screen)
- The size of the known universe is now estimated at more than 15 thousand light-years (for 15 thousand millions)
- Let's say a size of 5.08 centimeters (for "a couple of inches")

This may be for another thread: Do you in USA and UK suffer the huge advertisement campaign for "fat reducers", "fat busters", and pseudo-pharmaceutical products which have long been demonstrated as ABSOLUTELY FALSE ? In Argentina they've found the failure in the laws, and they advertise as "dietary supplement", and this has opened the media doors. The cost of those products reaches the hundred dollars for a one-month "treatment". Why this people are not in jail ?
Best regards, Andrés Magré (zapping the TV to find Beavis & Butthead)


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Subject: RE: BS: Translations
From: Micca
Date: 08 Nov 99 - 09:16 AM

Speaking of translations this came in this mornings postfrom a friend, Eye halve a spelling chequer.
> It came with my pea sea. .
> It plainly marques four my revue.
> Miss steaks eye kin knot sea. .
>.
> Eye strike a key and type a word.
> And weight four it two say.
> Weather eye am wrong oar write. .
> It shows me straight a weigh. .
> > As soon as a must ache is maid.
> It nose bee fore two long.
> And eye can put the error rite.
> Its rare lea ever wrong. .
> > Eye have run this poem threw it. .
> I am shore your pleased two no.
> Its letter perfect awl the weigh; .
> My chequer tolled me sew. .


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Subject: RE: BS: Translations
From: MMario
Date: 08 Nov 99 - 10:01 AM

regarding Wolgang's post of 5 November. I have seen versions of this going back at least as far as 1972; including one published in Reader's Digest. I suspect it is older then that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Translations
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Nov 99 - 02:35 PM

I don't suppose there's a babelfish equivalent for any other languages? Gaelic, Latin and Middle English would be the ones I'd really like. Or Klingon (Im reckon that my name, with six consonents and only one vowel, would serve quite well in Klingon)

Actually using babelfish to translate into a language you sort of know, and then manually translating back can work quite well to get a different angle on a piece of writing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Translations
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 08 Nov 99 - 11:33 PM

Speaking of Mark Twain (I'm sure somebody was, a few postings back), he wrote a wonderful essay called "The Awful German Language." It concludes with a piece called "Tale of the Fishwife and Its Sad Fate" that purports to be a literal translation of a German story. He plays on the fact that German nouns have genders that don't always seem to make common sense to us non-German-speakers. It's a dizzying whirl of "he", "she", and "it" that always has me in stitches. He also did a back-translation from a French translation of his own "The Celebrated Jumping Frog of Calaveras County." I wish I could remember it. I do recall that it started "It there was one time..." (Il y avait une fois...)


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