BS: UK political parties for oblivion?

Subject: RE: BS: UK political parties for oblivion?
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Mar 13 - 05:06 AM

:0)....Good one Allen.....but I dont think MacDiarmid would have much truck with some of the career politicians who are steering the SNP

We need a bit more "heart and soul"....the revival was based on a new beginning, no more foreign wars, out of NATO,a start made on the irradication of poverty, drugs and the underclass.

We seem to be engaged in playing politics now and losing the support of the Scottish people. They are not unintelligent and can spot a careerist a mile away.

If we're not careful that revival will melt "lik sna' aff a dyke"

Subject: RE: BS: UK political parties for oblivion?
From: Musket
Date: 21 Mar 13 - 04:56 AM

You are right about one thing though Allan. It isn't true about my wife and I paying for Scotland because I never ruddy well said that in this thread. You are listening to that chip on your shoulder rather than reading what I put. I reckon in another thread I may have asked the question, based on conflicting statistics leading to nobody being certain of their stance.

I have relatives in Norway, (ironically, they moved there from Edinburgh but I digress.) We shall see how that place pans out when they run out of gas and the EU don't have to pander to them any more. The Norwegian government reckon 2023...

If Haggis Republic is "offensive" I must remember that satire can always be classed as offensive. I suppose if you put your poem without translation, I can't find that quite as offensive hey? No matter. Haggis Republic isn't my original phrase anyway. Billy Connolly used it on his last tour...

If every inhabitant of the Hoots Mon! Och Aye The Noo' Wannabe Republic are going to be so touchy about being wound up, looks like I am going to enjoy the coming months.

Even Dick Gaughan took time out from siding with the Lairds and Gentry he reckons to despise in order to say, with a lovely sense of irony, "If the English want their independence, let them have it."

Political parties for oblivion? What price SNP after the referendum?

Subject: RE: BS: UK political parties for oblivion?
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 21 Mar 13 - 03:55 AM

"I suggest you recognise the humour of the poem rather than snide remarks about a haggis republic"

The first verse of a MacDiarmid poem springs to mind as Musket continues to think he keeps Scotland afloat.


Tell me the auld, auld story
O' hoo the Union brocht
Puir Scotland into being
As a country worth a thocht.
England, frae whom a; blessings flow
What could we dae withoot ye?   
Then dinna threep it doon oor throats   
As gin we e'er could doot ye!
My feelings lang wi' gratitude
Ha'e been sae sairly harrowed
That dod! I think it's time
The claith was owre the parrot!

Subject: RE: BS: UK political parties for oblivion?
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 21 Mar 13 - 03:48 AM

"Scotland is no different to any other geographical groupings of constituencies"

Scotland is not just a group of constituencies though. It is a nation within the union. Of course the UK parties are relevant here but the political landscape is totally different so I kind of get what Jim was getting at. As to your comments about haggis republic etc well they do verge towards the offensive side but as the debate within the Scotland itself is largely at least civil then no doubt we can live with someone on the sidelines making childish remarks. Your comments about you and your wife paying for Scotland are again simply not true. As to the Ireland and Iceland remarks then one can also point towards Norway. Ireland doesn't have Scotland's vast natural resources. Not all small countries have failed and not all larger ones are stunning successes - points towards Spain and Italy! As to the Westminster v Holyrood thing then yes theoretically the Westminster govt could wind up the Scottish Parliament tomorrow. Realistically though it is not an option which would be considered. It wasn't within Holyrood's powers to hold a binding referendum. Theoretically the UK govt could have blocked it altogether. Instead they chose to do no more than tinker with the details. Politically it wasn't an option to block it just as it wouldn't be an option to dismantle devolution against the will of the Scottish people.

Subject: RE: BS: UK political parties for oblivion?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 06:54 AM

""England could have no choice but to bomb Scottish airports in order to defend itself from attack if Scotland became independent, the former Solicitor General for Scotland has warned.""

Jesus H Christ!

You couldn't write that as a theme for a bloody sitcom.

I'm very pleased to see that idiot is a former Solicitor General.

They should increase his medication.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: UK political parties for oblivion?
From: GUEST,Musket sans cookie
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 06:45 AM

I would have thought a 30 year old document even deeper...

Well you have your vote and you will exercise it based on your take. You claim in many other threads that you are swayed by cold facts so just make sure some of your rationale is more up to date and relevant. It's the money not the soundbites that count. Oblivion of political parties may be the title of this thread but long term irrelevance is already upon us.

Hence I remain bemused about an argument over whether a scone gets local cream.

Subject: RE: BS: UK political parties for oblivion?
From: akenaton
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 04:42 AM

We trust the intelligence of the Scottish people Ian, but I certainly dont trust the UK media or government to present the facts to them.

However, for the obstacles, I hope to see Scotland an independent nation once again.
Come independence, were going to make Jim Knowlege our national bard, as his whimsical humour seemes a bit to deep for the English.

Subject: RE: BS: UK political parties for oblivion?
From: GUEST,Musket sans cookie
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 03:13 AM

So long as voters are deprived of 'truth.'

Where have I heard that before.

Bloody hell. I started baiting our tartan correspondent purely because of the smug way he felt that UK political parties were irrelevant in a remote part of The UK.

Looks like I was onto something.   So you don't trust the intelligence of your compatriots to reach a decision without your prescribed literature?

McGraw of Harlow is right in his question above. Just that it isn't my comments that will wind up the voters. Is it Jim?

Subject: RE: BS: UK political parties for oblivion?
From: Jim McLean
Date: 19 Mar 13 - 03:07 PM

Backwoodsman, as long as the Scottish public are deprived of truth (The McCrone Reort) you are perfectly correct.

McCrone report
The McCrone report was a dossier written in 1974 by Professor Gavin McCrone, a leading government economist, for the Conservative UK government into the viability of an independent Scotland.
The report predicted that North sea oil revenue would have given an independent Scotland one of the strongest currencies in Europe and a large tax surplus. On this basis, it went on to say that officials advised government ministers on how to take "the wind out of the SNP sails". The incoming Labour administration classified the document as secret over fears it could give a further boost to the SNP's policy of Scottish independence.[1][2][3]
Thirty years later oil production had peaked and during the decade to 2012 declined by 6% per year, though due to increasing oil prices the annual tax revenue take remains considerable, coming in at around £35 billion in 2011-2012.[4][5]
The dossier came to light in 2005 when the SNP obtained the report under the Freedom of Information Act 2000. The full provisions of the Act came into force on 1 January 2005.[1]

Subject: RE: BS: UK political parties for oblivion?
From: GUEST,Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Mar 13 - 09:49 AM

Stop fretting, it'll never happen. The intelligent, sensible majority in Scotland will tell the SNP where to shove its referendum and vote to remain in the Union.

Subject: RE: BS: UK political parties for oblivion?
From: Jim McLean
Date: 19 Mar 13 - 08:13 AM

How about this, Don T!


England could have no choice but to bomb Scottish airports in order to defend itself from attack if Scotland became independent, the former Solicitor General for Scotland has warned.

Lord Fraser of Carmyllie said if Scotland was left undefended, the enemies of England could use it as a base from which to launch air raids over the border, The Herald reported.

"If that were to happen what alternative would England have but to come and bomb the hell out of Glasgow airport and Edinburgh airport," he said.

Subject: RE: BS: UK political parties for oblivion?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 19 Mar 13 - 07:51 AM

Careful Jim!

That could all too easily be prophetic.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: UK political parties for oblivion?
From: GUEST,Jim Knowledge
Date: 19 Mar 13 - 07:31 AM

I `ad that Colonel Chinstrap in my cab this morning. `e was fair bristling with `is waxed moustache and `is swagger stick under `is arm.
I said, "Morning Colonel, What`s got you all `ot and bothered then?"
`e said, "I`ve been keeping tabs on the Mudcat, Jim. They`re going on about the politico Johnnies, left, right, centrists, sausages, taxes, duties, train fares. They`ve even got Jimmie bringing haggis and Rabbi Burns into the forum and yet not one of them has an inkling as to how or what to do to bring about meaningful change."
I said, " Fair dooz, Colonel, What`s your answer to it all then."
`e said, "Simple ,Jim. What we need is a Bloody Good War!!


Whaddam I Like??

Subject: RE: BS: UK political parties for oblivion?
From: GUEST,Musket sans cookie
Date: 18 Mar 13 - 12:13 PM

That last one with a link wasn't from me.

Dunno what it is or whether I agree. Won't look at it on principle.

Only sans cookie cos phone won't hold them.

Subject: RE: BS: UK political parties for oblivion?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Mar 13 - 01:53 PM

Is Musket deliberately trying to encourage any Scottish Mudcatters to vote for leaving what would be left of theUnion.

Subject: RE: BS: UK political parties for oblivion?
From: GUEST,Musket sans cookie
Date: 17 Mar 13 - 10:38 AM

Three points to me.

No need to shoot myself Jim. I don't qualify to vote and need to go back four generations before seeing my lot wearing skirts and blowing up a cat's arse.

But if you are being so touchy about someone pointing out Scotland is no different to any other geographical groupings of constituencies I can't wait for the referendum because I am allowed a view and that view is that it is a stupid idea formed by misty eyed historians who are in danger of inflicting misery on a hell of a lot of people if Scotland runs a pad saw between Berwick and Carlisle.

Uk parties for oblivion? At least their leaders see the dangers in getting smaller when business and economy depend on globalisation.

Subject: RE: BS: UK political parties for oblivion?
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Mar 13 - 10:28 AM

Nae good Jim! :0(......it's completely impervious to irony.

Subject: RE: BS: UK political parties for oblivion?
From: Jim McLean
Date: 17 Mar 13 - 07:10 AM

Musket, go          shoot yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: UK political parties for oblivion?
From: GUEST,Musket sans cookie
Date: 17 Mar 13 - 06:34 AM

The place I come from doesn't have a Tory MP either and never has done.

Anyway. How come an almost illegible poem by the bloke who more than anyone linked Haggis with Scotland is recognisable humour but Haggis Republic isn't? I suppose the word dour is a Scottish one. Lighten up fer chrissake. You will get far more ridicule when Salmond starts the referendum speeches. Comics and commentators can't wait for his gaffes. Haggis Republic too much for you? Then how's about a Celtic Tiger and axis with Ireland and Iceland?

Oh. Alex beat me to it. Damn...

Subject: RE: BS: UK political parties for oblivion?
From: Jim McLean
Date: 16 Mar 13 - 01:44 PM

I didn't suggest Scotland wasn't a part of the UK political parties debate ... on the contrary, I was pointing out that Scotland is governed from Westminter which has one Tory MP in Scotland. No arrogance, merely a statement of fact. The thread asks a question which I answered. You obviously deliberately misunstood or rather misconstrued a humerous poem by Burns (which I included to go along with the secondary debate regarding sausages). I suggest you recognise the humour of the poem rather than snide remarks about a haggis republic.

Subject: RE: BS: UK political parties for oblivion?
From: Musket
Date: 16 Mar 13 - 01:28 PM

It wasn't abuse Jim. It was fairly provocative yes, but pointing out the absurdity of saying Scotland doesn't have the mainstream political parties in any big way.

You do.

That is what the ruddy independence vote is all about!

There are many people south of the border who don't have Tory or LibDem MPs but still are governed by a coalition. The Scottish Parliament is, like it or lump it, a sub committee of Westminster. If it weren't, there would be no need for a vote, with or without a stiffy. (Mind you, the swingometer is another story.)

I didn't suggest political motive, I suggested arrogance. Arrogance in suggesting Scotland is not part of the UK political parties debate. It is until the people speak. My "childish" post was written in that way because I laughed at the smug "already a Haggis republic" stance that you posted. If you represented yourself wrongly, then fair enough, but I posted based on what you wrote..

Subject: RE: BS: UK political parties for oblivion?
From: Jim McLean
Date: 16 Mar 13 - 12:46 PM

Musket, I made a perfectly sensible comment about the state of affairs regarding political parties and your answer is a mild form of abuse. There was nothing in my reply suggesting any political motive but you have made yours perfectly,and rudely, clear. I'm sure the Scottish economy would be delighted to accept your hard earned money but your childish comments will be less welcome.

Subject: RE: BS: UK political parties for oblivion?
From: GUEST,Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Mar 13 - 11:56 AM

That was me, BTW - damn this iPad!

Subject: RE: BS: UK political parties for oblivion?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Mar 13 - 11:55 AM

"Indeed, Backwoodsman, we leave it to others and trust them to get it right, and the others in question aren't fiddling around with ingenious "pretty clever financial properties" to try and avoid paying taxes."

Fair point, can't dispute that!

I would say, though, that I was one of the 'others' who always played a straight bat, and never got involved in the more dubious stuff that some of the other 'others' get up to! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: UK political parties for oblivion?
From: Musket
Date: 16 Mar 13 - 11:51 AM

Jim.

You are subject to Westminster. You are ultimately governed by a coalition of Conservative and Liberal Democrats, with Labour leading "Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition."

If that weren't the case, people wouldn't be getting a stiffy rising from their kilts over a vote to be governed otherwise. The present Scottish Parliament is a legal instrument of Westminster and was signed into existence by a Minister's pen in Whitehall.

And can be unsigned too. But we English, who tolerate you (this is aimed at your compatriot above) have the good grace to give you the opportunity to bugger off. So long as my wife and I can still prop up your economy on our holidays without getting visas, that's fine by me.

Subject: RE: BS: UK political parties for oblivion?
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Mar 13 - 08:29 AM

Well said Jim, but I wish Eck and Nick wid stick tae the "steemin' entrails" an' lee the cauld quiche alane!

Subject: RE: BS: UK political parties for oblivion?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Mar 13 - 06:54 AM

Indeed, Backwoodsman, we leave it to others and trust them to get it right, and the others in question aren't fiddling around with ingenious "pretty clever financial properties" to try and avoid paying taxes.

Subject: RE: BS: UK political parties for oblivion?
From: Jim McLean
Date: 16 Mar 13 - 06:18 AM

The thread says UK political parties but so far the post seem only to deal with England. The Conservative and Liberal parties have all but disappeared already from Scotland, and as far as sausages go remember Burns:

Ye Pow'rs, wha mak mankind your care,
And dish them out their bill o' fare,
Auld Scotland wants nae skinking ware
That jaups in luggies;
But, if ye wish her gratefu' prayer
Gie her a haggis!

Subject: RE: BS: UK political parties for oblivion?
From: GUEST,Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Mar 13 - 03:38 AM

"That "surely" mightily if you know your way round the system, like an accountant, or perhaps a lawyer. But most people, including me, haven't the faintest idea of how tax allowances and exemptions work. I suspect that most people could avoid any amount of tax if they knew all the nooks and crannies and fiddles that the rich use."

Not really, Kevin. If you're paying in to an occupational pension scheme, or even a personal scheme, your employers or the brokers will have taken care of the tax-relief aspect, either by notifying HMRC of your entitlement to tax relief on your contributions, or by reducing the amount you actually pay in each pay-period by the tax relief amount, whilst the scheme providers credit your account with the full, un-reduced, contribution.

There's no need for Mr. Average-Contributor to know "all the nooks and crannies and fiddles" in respect of tax-relief on contributions to a pension scheme, that's what those accountants you mentioned are for. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: UK political parties for oblivion?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Mar 13 - 08:36 PM

I wouldn't dream of trying to diminish the work of New Labour in carrying on the Tory project for all those years, and preparing the way for the return of the Tory nightmare.

While I detest the Tories and despise the LibDems I despair for Labour.

But there is something particularly disgusting about the way the present shower have set out to demonise vulnerable people and to stir up a yob mob against "shirkers and cheats" - and at the same time they are themselves the worst cheats of all.

Not just in big ways, in shabby petty ways, as demonstrated in that clip - you only even become liable for inheritance tax if your estate comes to a very considerable sum. And only then if you aren't crafty enough to fiddle your way out of paying it, and to rip-off the state for the kind of benefits that are now being cut to pieces, because you have conned them you are poor.

And we should not forget that last year George Osborne, a millionaire, got caught travelling in a First Class compartment with a Second Class ticket. A well-heeled oik.

Subject: RE: BS: UK political parties for oblivion?
From: akenaton
Date: 15 Mar 13 - 07:40 PM

Well said Mr Mcgrath....but we must not diminish the work of Messrs Blair and Brown in continuing the destruction.

In reality, "clever financial products" were all we had in the locker to keep this crazy economic and social system staggering on into a credit wilderness,

Politicians of all "brands" are simply tools...Marx said that this system would destroy itself....its is the natural progression of a system built on greed and financial inequality.

The strange thing is how long it took to come about, and the horror is what is to become of those who served it.

Subject: RE: BS: UK political parties for oblivion?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Mar 13 - 04:05 PM

Actually I had another look - the date on which Osborne was saying that, with such a roguish giggle as he talked about the "pretty clever financial products", was in fact 15 May 2003.

That was at a time when his crooked friends in the City were still wrecking the place without being unmasked, and the Tories were crying out for still more deregulation of the financial casino. (And of course they were still swearing blind that no Tory government would ever cut benerfits or public services.)

Subject: RE: BS: UK political parties for oblivion?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Mar 13 - 03:36 PM

That blue clicky wasn't blue. This one should be a bit better - look at him sniggering about how "there are some pretty clever financial products" that he really shouldn't be telling ordinary people about. This was in 2009 - after the time that other "pretty clever financial products" had brought the world to its knees.

Subject: RE: BS: UK political parties for oblivion?
From: GUEST,Musket sans cookie
Date: 15 Mar 13 - 02:48 PM

Granted. But you raise it in order to fund your ideas. The ideas are there to spend it.

Just a thought.

Subject: RE: BS: UK political parties for oblivion?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Mar 13 - 02:32 PM

Surely you get tax relief on pension contributions, don't you? Within limits. If so, private pension saving is treated more favourably than state pension saving.

That "surely" mightily if you know your way round the system, like an accountant, or perhaps a lawyer. But most people, including me, haven't the faintest idea of how tax allowances and exemptions work. I suspect that most people could avoid any amount of tax if they knew all the nooks and crannies and fiddles that the rich use.

Here is a link to lovely. George Osborne advising people how to bleed the system - that was when he was in opposition of course < a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qjBec3fpBI&feature=player_embedded"> What a lovely man!

Subject: RE: BS: UK political parties for oblivion?
From: GUEST,Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Mar 13 - 02:13 PM

It was a rhetorical question, Don, with more than just a touch of irony! :-)

Musket, there are two questions - both how they raise taxes and how they spend them - surely?

Subject: RE: BS: UK political parties for oblivion?
From: GUEST,Musket sans cookie
Date: 15 Mar 13 - 01:53 PM

As we are talking political parties. Surely the question is not how they raise taxes but how they spend it?

Subject: RE: BS: UK political parties for oblivion?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 15 Mar 13 - 01:42 PM

""Whatever happened to the basic principle of 'no double-taxation'?""

It never has existed is the short answer.

If you buy anything which is VAT rated (or purchase tax previously), you are paying a second tax on already taxed income.

If you drive a car you have for years been paying VAT on fuel duty, a double tax.

And if you save your pennies and leave more than a pittance when you pop your clogs, there are death duties on all that money on which you paid income tax, and tax on the interest accrued, a triple tax.

What basic principle?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: UK political parties for oblivion?
From: GUEST,Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Mar 13 - 05:23 AM

"Not just state pension.
You save money out of your taxed income and put it into a pension fund, and they tax it again when you draw it out!"

Nope, not so. Your fund contributions are subject to tax relief, either by netting against the amount you pay in to the fund or by an increase to your tax coding. So you're only taxed once, i.e. when you draw out.

Subject: RE: BS: UK political parties for oblivion?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Mar 13 - 04:17 AM

Surely you get tax relief on pension contributions, don't you? Within limits. If so, private pension saving is treated more favourably than state pension saving.

Subject: RE: BS: UK political parties for oblivion?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Mar 13 - 04:02 AM

Not just state pension.
You save money out of your taxed income and put it into a pension fund, and they tax it again when you draw it out!

Subject: RE: BS: UK political parties for oblivion?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Mar 13 - 03:29 AM

They'll do what they're doing here...start to 'co-operate' merge, and become the across the pond chapter of the New World Order....like it was all a bright new idea! New currency, and even a new form of money and financial transactions, new laws, new everything that will also suppress the people from ever being able to do a damn thing about it.

Me??..I'm just going to keep playing and composing.....

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: UK political parties for oblivion?
From: GUEST,Musket sans cookie
Date: 15 Mar 13 - 03:23 AM

Yes they can. VAT if it is sold hot. Tote tax if it contains traces of Shergar.

Subject: RE: BS: UK political parties for oblivion?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Mar 13 - 02:45 AM

Maybe I should make those bastards pay me in sausages - they'd have a problem trying to tax those!   :-)

Subject: RE: BS: UK political parties for oblivion?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Mar 13 - 02:43 AM

Absolutely correct, McG, the 'taking x number of people out of tax' ruse is one that's been used by successive governments in an attempt to appear to be looking after the poor, but which has absolutely no benefit whatsoever for the poorest - those whose income is so low they don't pay tax anyway.

On a parallel with Wolfhound person's point above, it drives me nuts that I have to pay tax on my state pension - a clear case of the state giving with one hand and taking with the other! WTF? I paid tax in the form of national insurance for 49 years to build up a fund for my retirement, which they then tax again when I start to draw on it! Again I say, WTF?

Whatever happened to the basic principle of 'no double-taxation'?

Subject: RE: BS: UK political parties for oblivion?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Mar 13 - 08:53 PM

I suppose you can argue it either way. You can say people are taxed on their full income, but there are tax allowances that get taken off that, including one currently for £9440 for the first bit of income, or you can say that you are only taxed on the income over. And above £9440. It comes to the same thing.

One thing that does get blurred is the fact that when politicians in the present government preen themselves on taking people out of tax by raising the tax floor, as a counter to other cuts aimed at the poorest, that tax cut goes to everyone, including the very richest. If you didn't earn enough to pay tax at all, of course, none of that tax cut comes your way, while the benefit cuts certainly do. Most of any income tax cut is always going to go to people earning well above the new tax threshold.

Subject: RE: BS: UK political parties for oblivion?
From: GUEST,Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Mar 13 - 12:54 PM

I was the unnamed guest, forgot to reset my cookie.

"Yeah, guest, but 40 hours at 6.19 per hour, 50 weeks of the year (ie a full time job) is 12380.00.UK pounds

Which is taxed. "

No. Only the difference between £9,440 and £12,380 is taxed. The first £9,440 is free of tax (assuming the standard personal tax allowance applies).

I don't disagree with your argument that the minimum wage is inadequate, I'm just making the point that your original premise that the minimum wage is taxed is not quite correct, and that only part of it is taxed, if at all.

Subject: RE: BS: UK political parties for oblivion?
From: Wolfhound person
Date: 14 Mar 13 - 12:41 PM

Yeah, guest, but 40 hours at 6.19 per hour, 50 weeks of the year (ie a full time job) is 12380.00.UK pounds

Which is taxed. And that's the minimum wage needed to live on according to the govvy. Not the acceptable living wage which is 3k or so higher.

The tax threshold should be at least 12380.10 . My gripe stands.

Paws

Subject: RE: BS: UK political parties for oblivion?
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Mar 13 - 04:21 AM

'if the minimum wage is that - the minimum necessary to live (exist?) on - why is it taxed?'

It's only taxed if the recipient works sufficient hours to bring their earnings above the personal tax allowance. If they don't reach that threshold, which for tax year 2013/4 is £9,440, they don't pay tax.

Subject: RE: BS: UK political parties for oblivion?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Mar 13 - 11:12 AM

Having to agree with Musket here. Cor blimey guv'nor.