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Subject: RE: An Open Letter to Michelle Shocked From: Johnny J Date: 19 Mar 13 - 06:20 PM MtheGM says "You may think Prince Charles a fool...........He happens, among all else, to hold an Upper Second degree from Cambridge" Personally, I don't believe the man is a fool although his degree wasn't in architecture. Incidentally, I also have a 2:1 Honours degree plus a few other qualifications. I say this NOT to brag but I would also wish to point out that, unlike Prince Charles or Michelle Shocked for that matter, I do not have a platform from where to spout my views on whatever subect I choose..whether they be sensible and acceptable or otherwise. Members of The Royal Family and celebrities in general have this opportunity and, by all means, let them have their say but they should remember that they are in a privileged position and behave responsibly. In the case of Ms Shocked's outburst, the audience didn't have the right of reply or the opportunity to go up on stage and say their piece. They could only to vote with their feet.... |
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Subject: RE: An Open Letter to Michelle Shocked From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe Date: 19 Mar 13 - 06:37 PM Michael, for the record, anarchy is not chaos, but order without control... Michelle Shocked has the right to say what she wants. When she abuses that right by using hate speech, she creates the bed she then has to lie in, and chances are in this case it will be a very uncomfortable bed. With rights come responsibilities - another central tenet of anarchism. Anarchism, to me, means not only the denial of authority, not only a new economy, but a revision of the principles of morality. It means the development of the individual as well as the assertion of the individual. It means self-responsibility, and not leader worship. - Voltairine de Cleyre |
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Subject: RE: An Open Letter to Michelle Shocked From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 19 Mar 13 - 06:57 PM Well expressed letter, Dan.....I was not pleased to hear(read)her rant, but only because I thought it was rather a tacky way she expressed herself. One can only imagine what it was like for her to be free to be over her homosexuality!...can you imagine what it must have felt like to her, when the popular notion is floating around that it is 'genetic', and no way out? All the more power to her...but I hope in the future she could be just as direct..but a bit more 'diplomatic'! GfS |
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Subject: RE: An Open Letter to Michelle Shocked From: Steve Shaw Date: 19 Mar 13 - 07:27 PM Personally, I don't believe the man is a fool although his degree wasn't in architecture. Incidentally, I also have a 2:1 Honours degree plus a few other qualifications. I say this NOT to brag but I would also wish to point out that, unlike Prince Charles or Michelle Shocked for that matter, I do not have a platform from where to spout my views on whatever subect I choose..whether they be sensible and acceptable or otherwise. Members of The Royal Family and celebrities in general have this opportunity and, by all means, let them have their say but they should remember that they are in a privileged position and behave responsibly. In the case of Ms Shocked's outburst, the audience didn't have the right of reply or the opportunity to go up on stage and say their piece. They could only to vote with their feet.... I agree. Sadly, such people's egos have been massaged to such an extent that they actually do believe in their guruhood. Witness McCartney and his veggieness and Bono with his simplistic pontificating about world poverty or whatever he thinks he's rattling on about. I've got no issue with them expressing their views but a good dose of appropriate humility would dictate that they kept their gobs shut. Still, if they want to spout, well who am I... |
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Subject: RE: An Open Letter to Michelle Shocked From: Jeri Date: 19 Mar 13 - 07:33 PM Some of you guys just can't talk about anything you haven't rehearsed, can you? Have the common decency to start your own thread when "An Open Letter to Michelle Shocked" doesn't interest you, and you want to shove the thread into being about homosexuality, religion, the royal family, "free speech" or any other garbage fight that's been done-to-death here. Please. |
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Subject: RE: An Open Letter to Michelle Shocked From: Steve Shaw Date: 19 Mar 13 - 07:37 PM Michael dear boy, I have no more right than you or anyone else to adjudicate as to Big Ears' opinions, which is probably a good job as I'm unlikely to get the chance to expound mine on the Beeb. Architecture and organic husbandry (though I believe there are dubious aspects to his involvement in the latter) are an idle rich man's hobby horses in his case. It would be utterly amazing had he no useful opinions on either, given that he's had all the time in the word to indulge these passions of his. He isn't that bright though, is he. He couldn't really not get that degree, could he. When I got my degree in 1972 I had no family influences to bring into play... |
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Subject: RE: An Open Letter to Michelle Shocked From: Steve Shaw Date: 19 Mar 13 - 07:42 PM Whoa, Jeri. We are generally keeping to the spirit of the thread by discussing people who apparently use their position to talk about topics which are beyond their purview. I think the topic has stayed on track better than most, so far at least. |
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Subject: RE: An Open Letter to Michelle Shocked From: Steve Shaw Date: 19 Mar 13 - 07:46 PM "He couldn't really not get that degree, could he, without a bit of pressure from Dad and whoever was prime minister at the time." Apologies. |
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Subject: RE: An Open Letter to Michelle Shocked From: frogprince Date: 19 Mar 13 - 07:49 PM Michelle Shocked has in the past either actually known herself to be homosexual, or gone through a youthful period of confusion as to her orientation. I doubt that any of us can know for certain which. She has "progressed" from that to a state of a best very questionable mental health and an apparent inability to behave appropriately socially. Isn't it wonderful when a person can be "set free" like that! gfs, how many people were you, as a counsellor, able to do that for? |
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Subject: RE: An Open Letter to Michelle Shocked From: frogprince Date: 19 Mar 13 - 07:53 PM ...at best... |
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Subject: RE: An Open Letter to Michelle Shocked From: GUEST,DrWord Date: 19 Mar 13 - 08:33 PM different musician, similar situation: when I mentioned a certain female Maritime fiddler, my daughter, who lives in that part of the world, showed immediate signs of revulsion|disgust. She said that she had been earwitness to an off-stage remark by N.M which was virulently homophobic. Current thread: I'm Shocked at her remarks. Kudos to Dan for his open letter. keep on pickin' dennis |
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Subject: RE: An Open Letter to Michelle Shocked From: Big Al Whittle Date: 19 Mar 13 - 08:35 PM Of course Prince Charles is a twit. 'Of course one wonders what we are leaving to our grandchildren' he said in his posh mutter the other day on telly. Well in your case Charlie, Buckingham Palace and an attic full of Van Dykes. he really does see no connection with his huge wealth, and the fate of poor people. Eye of a needle....ring any bells Charlie boy? Michelle S. is obviously bonkers. After dancing round onstage with Billy Bragg, dressed as a gay activist - she comes up with this load of crap. Bit like David Eycke. |
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Subject: RE: An Open Letter to Michelle Shocked From: Joe Offer Date: 19 Mar 13 - 08:43 PM I've always enjoyed the music of Michelle Shocked, although I admit I haven't followed her much in the last ten years or so. I really loved her Arkansas Traveler album, but I haven't heard anything she's done since. Never in my life, would I have dreamed that she would turn out to be such a homophobe. It has always seemed to me, that if there is one place in the world that should be a safe haven for homosexuals, it should be San Francisco. Rome should be safe for Catholics, Mecca should be safe for Muslims, Jerusalem should be safe for.....everybody. And San Francisco should be safe, completely safe, for gays. But lately, the anti-gays seem to be making a bid for San Francisco, and that's upsetting. And I say that with knowledge that my Catholic church appointed an anti-gay bishop to San Francisco. That should not have happened. And I still can't believe that enlightened California would pass Proposition 8, the initiative outlawing gay marriage. I thought we would be the first state to make gay marriage legal, but we have passed two anti-gay election initiatives in the last twenty years. I am embarrassed by both my church and my state. -Joe in California- And yes, Prince Charles is a twit, but that's none of my business, since I'm not British. |
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Subject: RE: An Open Letter to Michelle Shocked From: Lonesome EJ Date: 19 Mar 13 - 10:49 PM She could earn a few bucks appearing at Chic-Fil-A "Family Saturday"s. |
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Subject: RE: An Open Letter to Michelle Shocked From: MGM·Lion Date: 20 Mar 13 - 06:08 AM ...yes, Prince Charles is a twit,---- .,,. What your basis for this assertion? Knowledge of him? Qualification to make such a judgment? Your 'biznis' or not, Joe: justify or withdraw. ~M~ |
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Subject: RE: An Open Letter to Michelle Shocked From: Steve Shaw Date: 20 Mar 13 - 07:19 AM Calm down, Michael now. The man is not of this planet, what with his wacky, bee-in-bonnet views on architecture and his questionable running of his vast estates. He's reached near-retirement age with nothing to do (except walk down lines of cheery fenced-in natives, waving and asking "and what do you do then?" because Mumsie has hung on for so long. He treated the feckless ingenue Diana like merdre from the night before he married her, and he reckons he has to be seen to be doing something or other that looks beneficent-ish. All-in-all, "twit" is a fairly mild way of characterising someone from whom a few decades of silence would have been welcome and who I'd personally reserve a stronger word for. Perhaps, in the cause of economy, with just one letter different. |
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Subject: RE: An Open Letter to Michelle Shocked From: Steve Shaw Date: 20 Mar 13 - 07:22 AM Apologies for the alien bracket! |
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Subject: RE: An Open Letter to Michelle Shocked From: MGM·Lion Date: 20 Mar 13 - 07:59 AM Well, must admit cannot defend treatment of poor Diana, whom he should never have married; but not entirely his fault that marriage to the one he should have married delayed till recently by wrong sort of pressure from his father [whom I personally regard, along with the insufferable late Margaret, as the really bloody one of the lot of them] et al. Have nothing to say either as to some of the eccentricities like talking to plants - tho its benefits constitute a superstition held by many gardeners of my acquaintance. But the architectural views strike me as perfectly tenable, representing some quite widely-held views. Cannot regard them as in any way twittish or misplaced. Still ~ assure you, Steve, I am perfectly calm. Still wondering tho about basis of Joe's expressed contempt. Joe? ~M~ |
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Subject: RE: An Open Letter to Michelle Shocked From: Steve Shaw Date: 20 Mar 13 - 08:09 AM Doesn't he also conduct symphonies with a real baton in front of his wardrobe mirror? |
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Subject: RE: An Open Letter to Michelle Shocked From: Dan Schatz Date: 20 Mar 13 - 08:43 AM Um, thread drift much? Dan |
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Subject: RE: An Open Letter to Michelle Shocked From: MGM·Lion Date: 20 Mar 13 - 09:36 AM True Dan ~~ but one of the familiar hazards of the forum, no? To be honest, Steve blushblushblush so did I, when young. Didn't everybody? Isn't that what fantasies & bedroom mirrors are for?! ☝ ♪♪♪♩~M~♪♪♪♩ ☝ |
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Subject: RE: An Open Letter to Michelle Shocked From: MGM·Lion Date: 20 Mar 13 - 10:31 AM 'He couldn't really not get that degree, could he. When I got my degree in 1972 I had no family influences to bring into play..." "He couldn't really not get that degree, could he, without a bit of pressure from Dad and whoever was prime minister at the time." Apologies'. ,.., Bit of a slow burn, but honestly can't follow the point you were making here, Steve. He had to get the appropriate entrance A-level grades, like anyone else; sit the same papers for his degree as all the other students in his faculty. What had his father & the PM to do with his succeeding in these things, just as, as you say, did you & I without any paternal or prime-ministerial influences to bring to bear? Do you imagine Prince Philip & whoever it was sitting in the exam hall leaning over his shoulder & whispering the answers in his ear*? Or what? Genuinely no conception of what you are on about... ~M~ *The size of which is quite irrelevant BTW; your fatuous, facetiously iterated "Big Ears" is a pathetic infantile silliness way beneath you of which you should really be ashamed. Oh for such times as when such impertinences would have resulted in your own, doubtlessly small but perfectly formed, aural appendages being painfully removed... |
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Subject: RE: An Open Letter to Michelle Shocked From: Johnny J Date: 20 Mar 13 - 10:42 AM "He had to get the appropriate entrance A-level grades" See http://www.princeofwales.gov.uk/the-prince-of-wales/biography/education "The Prince, the first Heir to The Throne to sit public examinations, took his GCE O Levels at the age of 16, passing English language, English literature, Latin, French and history - and later mathematics. He took his A Levels in July 1967, getting a B in history and a C in French, also gaining a distinction in an optional special paper in history." I am still not suggesting that the man is stupid but it can't be said that he lacked any opportunities. Very few of us here would be able to attend Gordonstoun and many have far better qualifications who wouldn't have a hope in hell of being accepted into Cambridge University. |
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Subject: RE: An Open Letter to Michelle Shocked From: katlaughing Date: 20 Mar 13 - 11:31 AM i was set to disagree with jeri until i read on. while i am enjoying the material, it has gone from being an "aside" to taking over the thread with rudeness to boot even with a kind reminder from the OP. pick an old thread to add to on the subject of your choice" or help this one get back on track. thanks, kat |
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Subject: RE: An Open Letter to Michelle Shocked From: MGM·Lion Date: 20 Mar 13 - 12:16 PM Thread drift is a tradition on this forum, as all well know. Often regrettable, it nevertheless is sometimes necessary to correct misapprehensions which may be tangential, and so it happens. The main thread still continues, as it were in parallel, so no-one is any the worse off IMO. Wherefore, Johnny J: Your point is a valid one; but the grades you have looked up, tho many others may have had better ones, were nevertheless well within the minimum specified by the University as prerequisite for admission; and if nobody who has not got 3 straight A's or whatever is to get in nonetheless, what would be the object of establishing & publishing such minimum requirements in the first place? Having been admitted, the Prince justified his place by achieving a perfectly respectable degree result, as good as, or better than, those of most of the higher previously qualified candidates who were his Cambridge contemporaries, did he not? ~M~ |
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Subject: RE: An Open Letter to Michelle Shocked From: Dan Schatz Date: 20 Mar 13 - 03:13 PM *SIGH* Well at least it keeps the thread current. I've been amazed at the resonance this letter seems to have had - and the many fruitful conversations in various forums it has led to! Dan |
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Subject: RE: An Open Letter to Michelle Shocked From: Bonnie Shaljean Date: 20 Mar 13 - 03:33 PM Here's Michelle's reaction to all the hoo-ha as of 4 hours ago: http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/music/2013/03/19/michelle-shocked-anti-gay-ti She apparently tweeted that she was "... abiding, letting everyone's true colors show before I undertake a personal response to each & every tweet." and "Am neither against a woman's right to choose nor gay marriage". Really? And "everyone else's true colours? I always wonder - IF she offers an apology - whether she's genuinely sorry for the intolerance and pain caused, or just for the trouble she's got herself into, and the harm she's done her career? It often rings pretty hollow. |
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Subject: RE: An Open Letter to Michelle Shocked From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 20 Mar 13 - 03:56 PM Maybe she was exercising her 'right to choose' not to pursue the homosexual lifestyle any longer, and it was a burden lifted from her. Nobody HAS to be locked into forever...but it is amazing, that people who claim to be 'liberally minded' feel so betrayed..when it is really none of their business, who she fucks or why..is it? GfS |
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Subject: RE: An Open Letter to Michelle Shocked From: Jeri Date: 20 Mar 13 - 04:09 PM I've seen comments on your blog about her being bi-polar. It's entirely possible, and people should think about how much control she really had. But... maybe entertaining a whole audience-load of people who've paid to hear her and have an idea what to expect isn't the best career for a loose cannon. Not if she's going to use their patronage to bitch-slap the lot of them. I remember the incident Bat Goddess mentioned. I don't really care much about this, because I'm not ever going to try too hard to hear her music. I think many of her fans won't try any longer. It's one thing to just piss off people who may not have liked you much to begin with, and another to betray those who though they were on the same side. People want a reason to forgive though, so who knows what will happen in the future. I suspect she won't be big in San Fran for quite a while. |
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Subject: RE: An Open Letter to Michelle Shocked From: Joe Offer Date: 20 Mar 13 - 04:44 PM Charles a twit? Well, as I said, I'm an American and really have no opinion nor right to an opinion. I just found it interesting that Charles came up in a discussion of Michelle Shocked and homosexuals. Sorry if I offended you, Michael. I was just being goofy. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: An Open Letter to Michelle Shocked From: Don Firth Date: 20 Mar 13 - 05:23 PM Worth a read. I have never met a "cured" homosexual who was not psychologically screwed up in one way or another. And, as a matter of fact, a follow-up study on a group of "cured" homosexuals verifies my observation. For the vast majority in the study, after "therapy," simply reverted to their former behavior. A large percentage bailed out, gave up sexual activity entirely, and became celibate. And more than a quarter of the sample began to suffer from serious anxiety and depression. There were six suicides. So it would appear that Michelle Shocked might be one of "the cured." Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: An Open Letter to Michelle Shocked From: bobad Date: 20 Mar 13 - 05:28 PM Hmm....Sincere or an attempt to salvage a career? Statement From Michelle Shocked: "I do not, nor have I ever, said or believed that God hates homosexuals (or anyone else). I said that some of His followers believe that. I believe intolerance comes from fear, and these folks are genuinely scared. When I said "Twitter that Michelle Shocked says "God hates faggots," I was predicting the absurd way my description of, my apology for, the intolerant would no doubt be misinterpreted. The show was all music, and the audience tweets said they enjoyed it. The commentary came about ten minutes later, in the encore. And to those fans who are disappointed by what they've heard or think I said, I'm very sorry: I don't always express myself as clearly as I should. But don't believe everything you read on facebook or twitter. My view of homosexuality has changed not one iota. I judge not. And my statement equating repeal of Prop 8 with the coming of the End Times was neither literal nor ironic: it was a description of how some folks – not me – feel about gay marriage. The show, and the rant, was spontaneous. As for those applauding my so-called stance that "God Hates Faggots," I say they should be met with mercy, not hate. And I hope that what remains of my audience will meet that intolerance with understanding, even of those who might hate them. Folks wonder about my sexuality, but denying being gay is like saying I never beat my husband. My sexuality is not at issue. What is being questioned is my support for the LGBT community, and that has never wavered. Music and activism have always been part of my work and my journey, which I hope and intend to continue. I'd like to say this was a publicity stunt, but I'm really not that clever, and I'm definitely not that cynical. But I am damn sorry. If I could repeat the evening, I would make a clearer distinction between a set of beliefs I abhor, and my human sympathy for the folks who hold them. I say this not because I want to look better. I have no wish to hide my faults, and – clearly – I couldn't if I tried." |
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Subject: RE: An Open Letter to Michelle Shocked From: Joe Offer Date: 20 Mar 13 - 06:06 PM Now, THAT's an interesting development, bobad. Did Michelle Shocked have a history of attacking gays, or is this a one-time thing that was misinterpreted? The plot thickens....or does it? -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: An Open Letter to Michelle Shocked From: Bonnie Shaljean Date: 20 Mar 13 - 06:28 PM So she's more or less denying that she said it? In spite of the fact that the entire audience heard her, and must have recorded it on their phones & stuff? It's gone viral and YouTube's bound to be full of it (haven't the heart to go look). Or is she so divorced from reality that she thinks no one will pick up on the disconnect? Or really believes she didn't say all that stuff? A zillion witnesses can't be wrong, surely. |
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Subject: RE: An Open Letter to Michelle Shocked From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 20 Mar 13 - 06:31 PM Froth: "I have never met a "cured" homosexual who was not psychologically screwed up in one way or another." That's nothing!....Ever talked to a recovered alcoholic in AA about alcohol??? ....So what??..we need a new name to call people??...ummm...alcohala-phobes maybe, huh? Get over it..The cracks in the 'movement' might just be starting to show! GfS |
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Subject: RE: An Open Letter to Michelle Shocked From: GUEST Date: 20 Mar 13 - 06:37 PM It's interesting to me that a Mudcatter played at one of her shows in Toronto a few years back. While he was congratulated by a few folks from here he garnered many fewer posts congratulating him than this thread has saying whatever. That tells me much about this place. http://music.yahoo.com/blogs/stop-the-presses/michelle-shocked-hatemonger-misunderstood-provocateur-005432281.html?fb_action_ids |
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Subject: RE: An Open Letter to Michelle Shocked From: Bonnie Shaljean Date: 20 Mar 13 - 07:17 PM I do wish she'd stated her defense sooner. Still not sure which to believe. Only film footage would really tell us - but is there any? |
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Subject: RE: An Open Letter to Michelle Shocked From: Joe Offer Date: 20 Mar 13 - 07:26 PM Max changed our policy and we now allow anonymous messages, but I think the anonymous message posted at 6:37 PM is particularly cowardly. I suggest that rest of us should ignore it, if the poster does not have the courage to include his/her name when posting such a slanderous message, not that it's all that clear what the poster is talking about. -Joe Offer-
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Subject: RE: An Open Letter to Michelle Shocked From: GUEST,Morris-ey Date: 20 Mar 13 - 07:33 PM No one causes offence; people choose to be offended. Why should anyone care what a singer says and, if you do you have the walk out option, don't you? Otherwise perhaps those who argue for equality here might tell us all what not to think and what not to say... |
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Subject: RE: An Open Letter to Michelle Shocked From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 20 Mar 13 - 07:53 PM Guest, Morris-sey; "Otherwise perhaps those who argue for equality here might tell us all what not to think and what not to say..." Well they do all the time, and VERY blocked, hardheadedly. They have NO tolerance for ANYONE who thinks outside their little boxes, and unless you repeat some sort of 'liberal mantra' over and over again, without thinking, of course, then you are branded, either a 'racist' bigot, homophobic, or Tea Partier...all in the name of independent thinking and equality!! The 'so-called' liberal left, at present, and in this country, are more closed minded and stubborn about it than virtually ANYONE I've met in my life! To them, it's perfectly OK to have a 'Gay Rights' Parade in public, not giving a rat's ass of who they may offend, even going as far as 'shock value' in offensiveness to heteros...but if a recovered homosexual speaks against homosexuality, from experience, mind you, they go into a full tilt blown tizzy fit! They expect you to burn incense to EVERY little cause, even bogus ones, that attaches themselves to what used to be real liberalism....and if ya' don't go along with it..well, you might as well be looking at a lynch mob out your window! I think Michelle Shocked exercised he free speech, much the way the real liberals did in the '60's....but what today's 'so-called' liberals don't seem to clock, is that THEY are the establishment...and if you rock their boat, they have aggressive 'remedies' for you, that would make the old Goldwater radicals applaud with absolute glee! OK..you can close your minds, and go back to sleep.....dream of who you can hate enough.. GfS |
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Subject: RE: An Open Letter to Michelle Shocked From: Jeri Date: 20 Mar 13 - 08:38 PM "Slanderous"?! How the fuck was that slanderous? I wish you had ignored it, Joe, but you obviously wanted to call attention to it. MS seems to have also just been looking for attention. The sad fact is that more people know about that rant and will remember that rant than will ever know her music. One becomes known for their abilities in their chosen field or their personalities. My only reply to that is that I might miss saying "good job" on the occasion of someone playing a gig. There are quite a few threads I don't post to. I also don't think numbers of people who respond matter much. Jerks write more than respectable folks, anyway. If it were me, I'd rather one knowledgeable person said something than 1,000 impersonal-but-kind people said "Wow. Cool!" Morris-ey, you said "Why should anyone care what a singer says and, if you do you have the walk out option, don't you?" Well, yeah, that's what happened, isn't it? I don't understand what you're saying. Me, I've heard a few of her songs, and I'm pretty sure I liked them. But I'm not a fan. I don't have to decide whether I think she believed what she said or not. I also know that nothing I say will have any effect one way or another, except for here, at Mudcat. I don't want it to. Her rant will either affect her career or it won't. |
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Subject: RE: An Open Letter to Michelle Shocked From: GUEST,hg Date: 20 Mar 13 - 11:04 PM Random thought from a drop-in I'd like to hear Janie's take on MS but the quotes from her biography suggest she has ongoing emotional troubles of some sort. Wow, Max changed the anon policy,,,why? Charles is not a twit. I wish queenie would make him king. she's a bit of a control freak. Why vilify a folks singer just because her views are unpopular and not cool? We're only allowed to be liberals????? The brits are still trying to drown us out..... |
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Subject: RE: An Open Letter to Michelle Shocked From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 20 Mar 13 - 11:33 PM I think this thread is what is sometimes termed a "moral panic". Strange that in these days of Smart Phones and all that no one seems to have put up a video clip of this incident on YouTube - there's a audio clip, but I couldn't make out too much. I wasn't trying too hard. She does seem to have gone on rather. One lesson,maybe, is never try to say anything complicated to an audience. And avoid any kind of irony except possibly in the British Isles or Australia... |
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Subject: RE: An Open Letter to Michelle Shocked From: GUEST,Stim Date: 20 Mar 13 - 11:43 PM Good point about the Smart Phones, McGrath. It seems impossible that it wasn't videoed. |
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Subject: RE: An Open Letter to Michelle Shocked From: GUEST,hg Date: 20 Mar 13 - 11:52 PM I just listened to and read the "rant". I don't know if she usually talks that much in her gigs but she does sound aus though she is having a breakdown. How sad for her to have the whole world watching and judging it. She needs compassion. It is most probably a breakdown. or in the jargon, a psychotic break. My two cents from forty years of mh work. |
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Subject: RE: An Open Letter to Michelle Shocked From: Dan Schatz Date: 21 Mar 13 - 12:25 AM As others have pointed out, Michelle Shocked has released a statement apologizing for being unclear, and saying that she meant to portray how other people felt about the lgbt community. Audio of the concert has been released that is very confused. I've added an update and details to my initial open letter to her. I am willing to take her word for what she meant to say. In my letter I tried to be very careful in my initial letter to speak from a place of concern, rather than judgment. Hearing the audio, I remain concerned. Dan |
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Subject: RE: An Open Letter to Michelle Shocked From: Bonnie Shaljean Date: 21 Mar 13 - 04:26 AM Do people in the throes of a mental meltdown have enough self-awareness to do "irony"? (Genuine question, not a sarcastic one, but it's fair to ask.) I picked up on the film-footage issue too, and have been wondering the same thing as McGrath and Stim, ever since I read her own side of the story - though I don't understand why she took so long in preparing it. Why didn't she defend herself at the time? At least via a spokesperson. Everyone could see the internet exploding around her. She could have helped herself a lot when she saw how her rant was going down with her listeners by stopping her speech right then and explaining herself. It takes something to make an audience of fans who have paid money to see you to walk out in droves, and it's pretty hard to miss as a reaction. Why wait for days to give your side of the story, while the internet explodes around you? I know it's illegal to live-record concerts, but that's never stopped anyone, so the lack of footage is strange. But apologies/explanations made late, under duress, can also be done for the sake of saving face (or one's career) so there's a motive there too. Since I didn't see her make these statements, I am suspending judgement and cutting her lots of slack. But these are fair questions, so I can't say I'm 100% convinced. Roshomon, internet-style. Wow. |
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Subject: RE: An Open Letter to Michelle Shocked From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 21 Mar 13 - 06:34 AM Listening to the audio I'd call it more of a ramble than a rant. |
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Subject: RE: An Open Letter to Michelle Shocked From: Bonnie Shaljean Date: 21 Mar 13 - 06:44 AM Anybody got a link? |
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Subject: RE: An Open Letter to Michelle Shocked From: TheSnail Date: 21 Mar 13 - 07:17 AM Entire recording: Michelle Shocked Homophobic Rant at Yoshi's San Francisco |
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