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Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan

GUEST,chris 20 Mar 13 - 10:37 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 20 Mar 13 - 10:45 AM
GUEST 20 Mar 13 - 11:35 AM
nickp 20 Mar 13 - 11:38 AM
John MacKenzie 20 Mar 13 - 11:39 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 20 Mar 13 - 11:50 AM
Manitas_at_home 20 Mar 13 - 12:01 PM
Acme 20 Mar 13 - 12:10 PM
GUEST,JHW 20 Mar 13 - 12:20 PM
kendall 20 Mar 13 - 12:28 PM
nickp 20 Mar 13 - 02:05 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 20 Mar 13 - 02:43 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 20 Mar 13 - 02:46 PM
McGrath of Harlow 20 Mar 13 - 02:56 PM
JohnInKansas 20 Mar 13 - 02:57 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 20 Mar 13 - 03:10 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 20 Mar 13 - 03:16 PM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 20 Mar 13 - 03:40 PM
GUEST,trews 20 Mar 13 - 04:40 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 20 Mar 13 - 04:43 PM
Jim Dixon 20 Mar 13 - 05:36 PM
Joe Offer 20 Mar 13 - 06:01 PM
Joe Offer 20 Mar 13 - 06:12 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 20 Mar 13 - 06:39 PM
GUEST,trews 20 Mar 13 - 07:07 PM
JohnInKansas 20 Mar 13 - 07:46 PM
Suegorgeous 20 Mar 13 - 07:58 PM
GUEST,leeneia 21 Mar 13 - 10:51 AM
bobad 21 Mar 13 - 11:02 AM
bobad 21 Mar 13 - 11:04 AM
Acme 21 Mar 13 - 10:52 PM
EBarnacle 22 Mar 13 - 01:36 AM
Joe Offer 22 Mar 13 - 01:59 AM
nickp 22 Mar 13 - 04:56 AM
EBarnacle 22 Mar 13 - 09:35 AM
GUEST,chris 22 Mar 13 - 12:31 PM
JohnInKansas 22 Mar 13 - 02:10 PM
JohnInKansas 22 Mar 13 - 02:15 PM
GUEST,JHWstill on XP and still with a full height 22 Mar 13 - 04:38 PM
Manitas_at_home 23 Mar 13 - 04:00 AM
Suegorgeous 26 Mar 13 - 07:58 AM
EBarnacle 27 Mar 13 - 10:43 AM
GUEST,JHW(cookie still on old computer) 28 Mar 13 - 06:19 AM
JohnInKansas 28 Mar 13 - 06:34 AM
kendall 28 Mar 13 - 07:16 AM
JohnInKansas 29 Mar 13 - 03:06 PM
Steve Gardham 29 Mar 13 - 05:00 PM
JohnInKansas 29 Mar 13 - 05:37 PM
Steve Gardham 29 Mar 13 - 05:47 PM
GUEST,surreysinger sans cookie 29 Mar 13 - 06:49 PM
Joe Offer 29 Mar 13 - 08:50 PM
wysiwyg 01 May 13 - 01:17 PM
JohnInKansas 01 May 13 - 02:49 PM
Acme 01 May 13 - 10:56 PM
JohnInKansas 02 May 13 - 01:43 AM
Acme 02 May 13 - 10:57 AM
JohnInKansas 02 May 13 - 01:28 PM
John J 02 May 13 - 01:39 PM
Joybell 02 May 13 - 07:33 PM
JohnInKansas 03 May 13 - 07:06 AM
wysiwyg 03 May 13 - 08:56 AM
wysiwyg 03 May 13 - 12:01 PM
JohnInKansas 03 May 13 - 01:20 PM
Joybell 03 May 13 - 08:22 PM
JohnInKansas 03 May 13 - 08:44 PM
EBarnacle 09 May 13 - 05:04 PM
JohnInKansas 09 May 13 - 09:25 PM
wysiwyg 11 May 13 - 08:24 AM
Acme 11 May 13 - 05:26 PM
JohnInKansas 11 May 13 - 06:21 PM
Acme 12 May 13 - 12:35 AM
JohnInKansas 14 May 13 - 04:52 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 14 May 13 - 05:36 PM
JohnInKansas 14 May 13 - 07:29 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 14 May 13 - 07:41 PM
JohnInKansas 15 May 13 - 12:42 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 15 May 13 - 05:18 AM
Howard Jones 15 May 13 - 08:04 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 15 May 13 - 08:09 AM
John J 15 May 13 - 09:23 AM
Greg F. 15 May 13 - 09:33 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 15 May 13 - 10:37 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 15 May 13 - 11:15 AM
GUEST,wisc guest 15 May 13 - 04:57 PM
Acme 15 May 13 - 05:00 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 15 May 13 - 05:18 PM
JohnInKansas 15 May 13 - 09:08 PM
Acme 15 May 13 - 10:58 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 16 May 13 - 03:49 AM
Acme 16 May 13 - 02:32 PM
Acme 17 May 13 - 01:04 PM
JohnInKansas 19 Jun 13 - 12:33 PM
Acme 19 Jun 13 - 04:44 PM
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Subject: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: GUEST,chris
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 10:37 AM

Now microsoft in their 'wisdom' have decided that my 'hotmail' has become 'outlook' - I expect that isn't going to be any more of an improvement than the Windows 8 debacle. It seems a pity that microsoft can't find a better use for their employees than 'digging holes and filling them in'
chris (fast becoming a technophobe)


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Subject: RE: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 10:45 AM

Yeah, they've been threatening me with that too. I keep getting screen-covering nag boxes which won't let me see my mail until I click something. So far I've just hit the piss-off-I've-got-work-to-do button, but wonder how long the luxury of that option will last?

Anybody caught (as in "catch" the flu) the update yet? Whassit like?


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Subject: RE: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 11:35 AM

I think it would be OK if you could make the font smaller and darker. It's rather grey annd makes up for the difficulty in reading it by having a large font. Consequently it looks like something a kid has designed. Perhaps they did...

I've had worse, one of the webmails I use (certainly until very recently) used to 'keep' the login email address and because it was loading adverts would often drop you into a Google search box if you were too quick - or too slow. That meant anyone watching could see you paswword because ou were searching for it. It did complain and had a few e-discussions with some support staff but they didn't see it as a problem...


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Subject: RE: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: nickp
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 11:38 AM

Oops that was me!


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Subject: RE: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 11:39 AM

I have been using Outlook as an address book for years, and find it very good for that. Never used it as a mail programme, I prefer Thunderbird.


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Subject: RE: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 11:50 AM

This is a browser-screen version (at least mine is) rather than a computer programme. Yes, I like T-Bird too.

Nick, what webmail programme was that? So I know to avoid it...


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Subject: RE: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 12:01 PM

Since they've been touting the web version to the commercial sector for years it would look odd if they didn't use it 'in-house'. They don't have to allocate resources to maintaining 2 email apps.


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Subject: RE: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Acme
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 12:10 PM

The switch doesn't seem to cause any problems for my account, but I don't use it for email, I use it for the cloud storage.

SRS


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Subject: RE: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: GUEST,JHW
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 12:20 PM

By saving the old url and putting it back in I'm still on the old Blue Yahoo email which is far more lucid than the newer Purple one. Alas I didn't do that for Hotmail so don't use it anymore. You used to be able to click a batch of emails then delete the lot but that seems to have gone so they'll have to keep them all. Its probably hidden somewhere but I reckon its the computer's job to remember things for me, not mine for it. Like when they hide stuff in supermarkets I can't be bothered to go looking.
Anyway I thought the whole idea of these web freebies was to sell advertising alongside so why deter users?


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Subject: RE: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: kendall
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 12:28 PM

It sucks big time, and I told them so. I see no way to forward an email. A pox on the bean counters who do this.


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Subject: RE: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: nickp
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 02:05 PM

Bonnie, don't know particularly is it is 'actual' webmail but it's from the UK company that begins with Tis....

Thankfully its latest version seems a little more sensible.


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Subject: RE: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 02:43 PM

You could try Mail2Web, which is pretty good, though it's not the fastest horse in the west, and is now getting very advert-y lately. You can forward stuff, reply (if you want a copy of your own message you're sending you need to remember to tick a box) etc. And it will download your mail into your desktop client next time you open it.

Only thing is, if you delete something while in Mail2Web, it zaps it off the server so it's gone forever. But if you just close things without deleting, they'll still be waiting there for you next time. Overall it's useful enough for those accounts which live in one computer rather than, say, Gmail.

They're a Micro$oft outfit, but I've been happy enough in stopgap situations for my non-IMAP (or whatever they call it) accounts. URL is

http://www.mail2web.com/


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Subject: RE: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 02:46 PM

Or do I mean IMAP accounts? POP accounts? The ones that aren't website-based hence don't travel from puter to puter with you.


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Subject: RE: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 02:56 PM

gmail seems ok for me. .


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Subject: RE: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 02:57 PM

Microsoft announced some time ago that Hotmail was to be discontinued and I believe some reports said the name would be changed to Outlook.

The chief difference is that the former Hotmail server(s) are being shut down, and the mail will now come and go on server(s) named Outlook(?).

The switchover is/was supposed to be "automatic" but there haven't been any details about what changes to server settings might be required (or imposed). Microsoft says "trust us."

Previous reports are that existing Hotmail email accounts and addresses will remain usable, but that all new accounts will be called outlook accounts and new user addresses will be outlook addresses.

Some confusion is likely, since "Outlook" has been (and still is) the name for a program you can use to handle email on your own computer, regardless of what email service you use, with a "sister program" that was once called "Mail" but then changed to "Outlook Express" and then changed back to "Mail" that offered "simpler" features than the Outlook program with less "instant messaging" (that in the Outlook program kept turning itself back on every time you turned it off).

The Outlook service is apparently NOT the same thing as the Outlook program and the Outlook service is a subset or adjunct to the "Live Mail" service which is also the name of a program that they can't get anyone to use much since they've never actually told anyone what it is.

The bottom line is that your Hotmail email address will (for now) remain the same and you can continue to use it, but the server you connect to will be a different one (or the same one with a different name and address). You will not be able to get a new Hotmail address but will be able to get a new Outlook account and address that will be pretty much the same thing as a Hotmail one - until they change all the names again the next time.

You may be assured that if you're still confused Microsoft will soon** release full and complete explanations for all the new features that the change will make available to you.

** soon means When Hell Freezes Over, global warming is believed by a Republican, and the Pope sends you your personal invitation to his wedding. (All three are necessary conditions and must all happen, but expect to hear from the Pope first.)

John


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Subject: RE: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 03:10 PM

Kevin, Gmail's fine. I'm talking about picking up mail from older accounts (POP ??) that download into a desktop programme and don't travel from computer to computer, which is what I use M2W for if I'm on another machine and still want to read/send mail.


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Subject: RE: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 03:16 PM

Thanks for the clarification JiK - I have a Live account which ends ---@live.com and also two others which end ---@hotmail.com

Can I assume that all these email addresses will stay usable as they are, or do I have to change the server suffix? (I'm not even sure how I GOT a "Live.com" account. I signed on for Hotmail and that's just what they gave me...)


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Subject: RE: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 03:40 PM

""(I'm not even sure how I GOT a "Live.com" account. I signed on for Hotmail and that's just what they gave me...)""

live.com is the E-Mail you get when you use Microsnot's Windows Live.

My wife has a live.co.uk address.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: GUEST,trews
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 04:40 PM

WHY IS THIS IN THE MUSIC SECTION!


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Subject: RE: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 04:43 PM

Computer/Tech-related stuff often is.


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 05:36 PM

I have switched over with no difficulty whatsoever.

Actually, I think it was my wife who initially accepted the offer to switch, but that must have caused some cookies to be set which made me switch, too. We have different email accounts and we use different browsers but we both use the same computer, at least for email.

Furthermore, this is the second time we've gone through a transformation, more or less forcibly. We started out with MSN as a provider, and our email addresses are still xxxxxxxx@msn.com. Then the website we had to use became known as Hotmail. Now I see the name Hotmail has gone away and the only thing I see is Outlook.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 06:01 PM

I've had my MSN e-mail address since about 1996, when I got MSN dialup service. It's a POP3 account that can be used on a variety of e-mail software packages, but I've always used the Web-based setup that was provided. MSN was merged with Hotmail, and then it was live.com, and now outlook.com - but I have always had the same e-mail address. I pay $22 a month for slightly better service and no ads.

Microsoft Office has had an Outlook e-mail client for at least 20 years, and it also used to offer a package called "Outlook Express" for free. I've used Web-based e-mail for 15 years or so because I can access it from any computer, and because it doesn't download a message to my computer unless I want to look at it - that stops most Spam and viruses from being downloaded to my computer.

Windows 8 has an Outlook function that I don't like, but I do like the Web-based e-mail client at outlook.com. It's a little sloppy about handling groups of e-mail addressees like my song circle e-mail list, but it's otherwise well-suited to my needs.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 06:12 PM

Trews, as Bonnie Shaljean says, tech stuff is often in the music section. It's actually the usual spot for tech stuff, since the "tech" label is set to direct threads in that category to the top of the page - same with obituaries. Moderators routinely move non-music obits to the non-music section when they see them. For the most part, tech threads are left in the top section unless they're really just BS chit-chat. It's just one of those arbitrary things, not a hard-and-fast rule. We see no need to argue about whether a thread should be "above the line" or "below the line."

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 06:39 PM

Especially when the thread title makes it crystal-clear exactly what it contains, so people can easily just bypass it.


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: GUEST,trews
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 07:07 PM

a fair point. no problem


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 07:46 PM

The majority of email programs (email clients is another term) do use the POP3 protocol.

In nearly all of them that I've seen, you can "export" or "save as" individual messages as a single file. "Mail" which turned into "Outlook Express" and then turned back into "Mail" again exports each file as a .eml file. Outlook (the program/email client) uses a different file extension but still works mostly the same. You get a single file that you can put anywhere on your computer that contains just one email. The file should open your regular email client/program when you double-click it.

A difficulty some have had is that the exported file had a "database filename" that was an illegible string of hex numbers so you needed to change the file name (but not the file extension) to be able to tell what they were. In Windows 7 (and maybe before) if you put them all in a folder you can click the top bar in Windows Explorer and choose to have the subject, sender, recipient, or a whole bunch (~128) of different things displayed where the filename would be the most usual thing. The exported files still have to be handled pretty much one at a time, and you still need an email client of some kind to open them, although you don't really have to use that client/program for the email that you send/receive in normal ways.

In older Windows versions, Outlook Express or Mail were included by default in the standard/default installations. In recent versions you probably need to download Mail (which is essentially the same thing as Outlook Express) but it should still be free from Microsoft.

All the reports that I've seen have indicated that the "new systems" will continue to accept (and forward automatically) email that uses an email address from one of the older systems. You don't (they promised) have to get a new email address. Any new accounts/addresses will have to be named for the new "widgetry."

"Windows Live" is a new (about 2 year old?) hallucination dreamed up by Microsoft and never really explained, but so far as I've been able to figure it out you can sign up for "Windows Live" and if you log in on your "Live" account the login is supposed to be valid "anywhere you go" (at participating sites) on the internet. There was an earlier version of this but I've successfully suppressed the memories to the point that I don't even remember what it was called.

IF YOU GET AN EMAIL ACCOUNT from "Windows Live" it's a Windows Live Email account. It appears that you can have a Windows Live account as a "browsing aid" (if you can figure out why you want to?) but get your email account from anywhere else. If you want a new free email account from Microsoft without being signed up for Windows Live and/or without signing in and getting it there it will now be an "Outlook" account with and you'll have an Outlook email address, instead of Hotmail.

Note that this is all my "interpretation" of what I've seen in the news; but I checked the mail today and haven't received anything from Rome, so a clear Microsoft explanation is apparently still being developed for future release.

John


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 20 Mar 13 - 07:58 PM

Kendall - if you click the Reply button at the top, you then have the option to Forward.

Have to say, I utterly loathe the new Outlook that I've been forced to move to. Large fonts and too much white space are hard on the eyes and make things harder to find.

Sue


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 21 Mar 13 - 10:51 AM

Large fonts? Try clicking on a white space and press Ctrl -.

Or look for Options somewhere above the e-mail texts. You may be able to change the font to what you like.

I got my e-mail provider the old-fashion way. I looked in the Yellow Pages and searched for Internet Service Providers. I selected a local company which is staffed by nice young guys named Brad or Chad. They speak clear English. When I need help (not often), they answer the phone and talk to me. There are no ads on my e-mail page.

I intend to stick with them for as long as possible.


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: bobad
Date: 21 Mar 13 - 11:02 AM

Kendall

To forward click on "options" in the top right corner of your email message and select "forward" from the list that appears in the drop down menu - simple.


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: bobad
Date: 21 Mar 13 - 11:04 AM

Sorry Kendall - that should read click on "actions" in the top right corner of your email message.


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Acme
Date: 21 Mar 13 - 10:52 PM

I use the resident Mozilla program called Thunderbird to manage most of my email accounts that will allow downloading (all gmail based.) Yahoo won't let me do that, and neither will Microsoft. I'd have to pay them an annual fee and I don't like their programs enough to bother.

Thunderbird can do POP3 (that's how I do it on my home computer) or IMAP (I have the program installed on my work computer, but it doesn't download everything into the computer, it just accesses the mail while I'm online.)

SRS


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: EBarnacle
Date: 22 Mar 13 - 01:36 AM

I've had Outlook now for a couple of days and loathe it. On the older computer I am using at the moment it tends to freeze. When it does not freeze it simply responds slowly. It also interferres with internet explorer, not allowing other windows to open on this computer.
I also had the large type issue, then looked at the lower right hand corner and remembered that the percentage number in the lower right hand corner allows you to adjust the size of the type face.
So far, as far as I am concerned, this latest migration is a loser.


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Joe Offer
Date: 22 Mar 13 - 01:59 AM

EBarnacle and Suegorgeous, are you using the "outlook" mail program that comes with Windows 8, or the one at outlook.com? I hate the first, don't mind the second.

John in Kansas, I think live.com is no more. That URL takes me to outlook.com

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: nickp
Date: 22 Mar 13 - 04:56 AM

The CTRL + & - I knew about but that means changing in and out of the font manually between outlook and other web page. I'd rather hoped there might be some outlook specific 'preference' I could use.

Finding the 'print' option took a while too!


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: EBarnacle
Date: 22 Mar 13 - 09:35 AM

This machine is still on XP. It works reasonably well on my Windows 7 machines.


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: GUEST,chris
Date: 22 Mar 13 - 12:31 PM

They've now flashed up 2 notes asking for feed back!! I suggested that instead of digging holes then filling them that they might find a better use for their staff. I've been polite - so far. The next one is likely to get a bit abusive - not that they'll read them I guess!!!!
chris (getting irritable)


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 22 Mar 13 - 02:10 PM

As usual, Microsoft has changed the names of just about everything, and as usual they've used the names of other things that they previously called by the same names they are now using for the old things that are now called by the new names, using names that duplicate the names of old things, and some of the old things that used to use those names are the same things they still use and call by new names that are the same names that were used for different old things. They are now using the names previously used for some old things that now have new names, while others of the old things that still use the same old names are things which are no longer still used but that you can continue to use if you want to, provided that you don't confuse the old things that always used that old name with the other old things that are now using that name or with the old things that now use another old name from something else that may still use the old name or may now use a different old name.

You'll probably need to read the above at least three times to reach full understanding of Microsoft's recent changes.

Unfortunately, since several people here will only read the first paragraph once and will try to skip ahead, not everyone will know what old thing they're talking about when the think they're describing the old thing that now uses the same name as the old thing that used to use that name instead of the other old thing that has always used that name, and those who respond will talk about the wrong old thing that used to use the name that is now used by the other old thing that now uses the old name.

IS THAT CLEAR?

If it's not, you probably should start over and CONCENTRATE until you understand the situation. Alternatively, you may want to risk proceeding and hope something sinks in.

I'll try to post some further explanation in a next post, due to length of the rant.

John


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 22 Mar 13 - 02:15 PM

MANY PEOPLE read their email in their browser and the messages are delivered in HTML formatted files. You must set up your account on an html server, but no program is required on your own computer except a browser and usually an account file to log you onto the server where your mail is sent/received. Some html services do require installation of a (proprietary) "reader" but it's not technically required and usually is mostly so that the service can get more information about what you do so that they can "sell you" to more advertisers.

HTML mail offers simplicity, but can make some things that "sophisticated" users like, such as local reliable archiving of messages on their own machines somewhat more difficult. You can work around the problems, in most cases.

MORE RELIABLE and for some, more convenient, email is achieved by using an "email client." This is a program installed on your own computer that sends and receives your mail, nearly always in a database record format although most client programs can handle html mail as well. Most email client programs are, or can be, set up to copy all messages to your own local machine, and archiving is mostly pretty simple (once you figure it out). If you choose to use an email client with "real mail" protocols, you usually have to connect to a different server than the one you would use for HTML mail, but nearly all internet services provide both kinds. In a few cases the same server may be able to provide either kind, but so far as I know it's rare.

If you use HTML mail, the "language" in which emails are sent to you or that you use to send emails is, of course, html.

If you use an email client program installed on your own computer, the "language" (protocol) used for transmitting messages is nearly always POP3. Sometimes the transmission is HTML one way, and POP3 only for messages going the other way. You set the "protocols" in your account settings for whatever email service you use. YOU CAN generally use a client program either for database formatted (POP3) mail or for HTML mail, but most people who have a reason to use a client program will probably want to use POP3.

OUTLOOK has been the name of Microsoft's main email client program since before there was Windows. A "simplified" Microsoft email client program you could use was called "Mail" prior to Win95, but the name was changed to OUTLOOK EXPRESS until Vista(?), when its name was changed back to MAIL. BOTH OUTLOOK, and MAIL or OUTLOOK EXPRESS, were included in default Windows Installations automatically so you could just register an account in either and start sending mail.

Microsoft does not include the renamed MAIL program by default now. I believe the change was made in Vista but may not have happened until Win7. You must download the MAIL email client program from Microsoft if you want it, but it was free the last time I looked and should still be.

MSN, MSN-Live, Hotmail, gmail, and other similar names generally apply to an email SERVICE that you can connect to and use to send/get your email. Various of these may require you to use a CLIENT PROGRAM on your computer in order to make the connection. Sometimes the client program is proprietary to the service, but usually you can use any email client program you choose.

Since Microsoft has decided that the name of their new SERVICE will be OUTLOOK, but OUTLOOK remains the name of a very popular EMAIL CLIENT PROGRAM you can use with any service, if you ask a question about OUTLOOK it is absolutely necessary that you know which one you're asking about and clearly state which it is when you ask. If you don't distinguish between the two when you ask for help, at least 80% of the "answers" you get will be about the other one and may cause harm to your setup if you try to follow them (based on recent mudcat threads).

If you attempt to ANSWER a question about something that can have a typical "Microsoft ambiguity of name," caution is required to make sure you're fixing the right thing. (And Microsoft isn't the only place where they've fired all the people that used to know what they were talking about, or where nobody knows how to say what they do mean even when they get the subject right.)

John


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: GUEST,JHWstill on XP and still with a full height
Date: 22 Mar 13 - 04:38 PM

'To forward click on "options" in the top right corner of your email message and select "forward" from the list that appears in the drop down menu - simple.'

You shouldn't have to remember what to click to find something else. Its the computer's job to remember things.
There should be a readily visible and clearly labelled button for everything you might want to do. That's simple


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 23 Mar 13 - 04:00 AM

HTML is a format protocol not a mail protocol. HTML mails can still be sent by POP3, MAPI, SMTP etc as can plain text.


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 26 Mar 13 - 07:58 AM

Joe - I'm not sure which of those.... It says Outlook.com... all I know is that I was (fairly) happily on Hotmail, then they forced me onto Outlook. Didn't choose it.

"Forward" doesn't appear on my Options list. I can only access Forward via the Reply button.

I think the Ctrl- thing reduces the page size, not the font size? and doesn't give me my helpful separating lines back. I can see no percentage number in the bottom right corner :(

Just hate the thing!


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: EBarnacle
Date: 27 Mar 13 - 10:43 AM

I just sent them a new message telling how much I dislike "features" of the new system--how difficult it is to send mail to various people on my list, how difficult it is to get rid of spam mail, that fershlugginer right pane which gives no useful information but decreases the size of the reading pane, etc. It's pretty bad.


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: GUEST,JHW(cookie still on old computer)
Date: 28 Mar 13 - 06:19 AM

Hey don't forget there are people out there trying to earn an honest crust by spoiling all this stuff. Facebook has just moved the stuff you might read to the right of the page and put all the backstage stuff about friends and such at the top right, where a newspaper would put its headline. Of course its idiotic but it keeps folks in work.
If they just put up a good website and left it alone they'd have no job. We all have to eat.


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 28 Mar 13 - 06:34 AM

There still seems to be some confusion about just what is happening to Hotmail/Outlook. One of the few older news reports (18 Feb) that might help clarify things for some people (posted elsewhere at mudcat) might bear repeating here:

Ding-dong, Hotmail's dead: All accounts switching to Outlook.com by summer
Wilson Rothman, NBC News

It's official: Outlook.com will fully replace Hotmail as Microsoft's webmail service. The company will begin to auto-update accounts, and hopes they will be fully migrated from Hotmail to Outlook.com by this summer.

The move was spurred by surprise growth in the Outlook.com mail service, which has amassed 60 million active users in just six months. Microsoft will also remove the "customer preview" label on the product, and launch a multimillion-dollar marketing campaign.

I know the first thing you're thinking: "Does this mean my Hotmail address will just go away?" No. It just means that when you go to hotmail.com, you will be re-routed to Outlook.com, and when you log in on the Web, you will get the Outlook.com experience. You can keep your @hotmail.com email address forever, but you can also use that account to create multiple new @outlook.com email addresses, too, if you so desire.

And let me tell you, you shouldn't wait for Microsoft to switch your old Hotmail service over to Outlook.com. I am an unabashed Hotmail hater, but who can forgive the original webmail service for being so far behind the times? Even when Microsoft spent millions on a "new Hotmail" ad campaign a scant two years ago, nobody was fooled: You still had to refresh the thing every time you wanted to know if you had mail.

Enter Outlook.com, which really can give Gmail a run for its money. It's a very smart service with a very streamlined design, tasteful social integration and auto organization features such as inbox "sweep" and scheduled cleanup. Because of this last bit, it's ideal for use either as a main email or as a "spam account," the kind you provide to online retailers and other data collectors.

(Switching your account over takes almost no effort: Just log into Hotmail then click Settings at the top right — you will see the option to convert to Outlook.)

Though Microsoft was pleased at the sudden growth of Outlook.com users, I grilled David Law, director of product management for Outlook.com, about how many of the 60 million users were just converts from Hotmail's existing 350 million or so accounts. My supposition is that this represents almost all of them, but while Law wouldn't tell me the number, he did say I would be surprised how many were totally fresh.

Law was forthcoming about a different statistic, one that demonstrates Microsoft's target: About one third of the current Outlook.com users are — or, at least, were — also Gmail users.

Outlook.com is a very welcome email option, and — when partnered with the company's SkyDrive cloud storage services — a sign that Microsoft may well regain some traction with consumers looking for reliable Web services.

One of its only obvious problems is that of branding: Because it's called "Outlook," many people (naturally) assume that it is some kind of Web client for managing any email account. It's not. It's a free service, like Gmail or Yahoo mail or, yes, Hotmail, that provides you with an email account. So don't go asking if you can create an Outlook.com account and then add your corporate email to it, because that's like asking if you can take Google Maps and stick Mapquest into it.

Wilson Rothman is the Technology & Science editor at NBC News Digital.

John


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: kendall
Date: 28 Mar 13 - 07:16 AM

I switched from gmail to hotmail because gmail was a pain in the ass. Now, I'm forced to use Outlook. I don't like change for change's sake. It seems like they just can't leave anything alone!

Anyway, I still have my yahoo email to fall back on.


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 29 Mar 13 - 03:06 PM

A new report (3 hours? ago from MSNBC) might be of interest to those using "free email" and who might consider a change between the several available.

This doesn't seem like anything major, and gmail users have probably already seen the "optional" new feature called the "compose window."

According to this report, the "option" will soon be mandatory.

Like it or not, Google's forcing the new Gmail compose window on you

FWIW

John


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 29 Mar 13 - 05:00 PM

The new Outlook is fine for me. I can't see anything missing that I used before. The only quibble I have is that on my computer I could go straight from Favourites to Hotmail emails without logging in.
Now I've got the extra arse of logging in every time, unless you know how to avoid this? BTW I'm technically incompetent!


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 29 Mar 13 - 05:37 PM

Steve G -

Recent Windows versions, and many antimalware programs, include "password vaults" where you can store your passwords and they'll be automatically provided when you connect to the site that requires them. Generally, the passwords are "encrypted" so they're reasonably safe from discovery. If your experience is limited, setting one up could be a little confusing.

If you use an AV program that has this feature you probably could find specific instructions at the provider's website.

Microsoft has "instructions" but what I've seen of them implies that they're written by "softies" with limited ability to communicate with real people. It might be worth taking a look anyway if logging in is enough of a problem.

There are also some separate "vault" programs with decent reputations. Some one here may be able to suggest one they've used(?).

Nearly all "email programs" require setting up an account in the program, and if they're properly setup login should be automatic when you open the program. "Outlook" has been the name of one such for at least 30 years, although it is assumed that your reference to that name meant "the new other Outlook" - i.e. Outlook.com - and you're using your browser for email. Some browsers may permit setting up automatic logins for specific web sites, but I haven't looked at that possibility.

John


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 29 Mar 13 - 05:47 PM

Thanks, John. I got the basic gist.


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: GUEST,surreysinger sans cookie
Date: 29 Mar 13 - 06:49 PM

Anybody know how to reduce the width of the wretched right hand box they've introduced? At the moment on my 11" screen on the netbook I can't read a whole line of anything ... it's a pain in the rear end!!


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Joe Offer
Date: 29 Mar 13 - 08:50 PM

Surreysinger, what are you using to view this, that you have an 11-inch screen?
I think you'll be happiest if you use a browser and not an "app," and go to www.outlook.com.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: wysiwyg
Date: 01 May 13 - 01:17 PM

I can NOT find how to add new or existing contacts to an existing group.

Or, how do I create a CSV file I can import?

~S~


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 01 May 13 - 02:49 PM

WYS -

How you add contacts usually depends on what PROGRAM you use to handle your email, and doesn't depend on where your email comes and goes from - i.e. what SERVICE you use.

We were using Outlook Express the last time we studied the problem, and went to the newer MAIL when they renamed what was called Mail before Win98 changed it to Outlook Express and then changed it back to Mail for Vista. It now says Live Mail when we open the program, although we've never created a "Live" account. Just another one of those things Mickey will explain when we meet Mrs Pope.

In Mail - or Live Mail (the PROGRAM) as it's now called, at the bottom left there is a "contacts" you can click to get the option to "add to contacts" to put the addy for whoever sent the email you're looking at, or open your contacts list to do more general editing. YOU MAY NEED TO SCROLL DOWN in that left "bar" to get to it, depending on your screen size, but the "Window" that lists emails, the "Window" that displays the current selected email (if you allow previewing), can have stuff run off the screen so you have to select one to scroll in it.

Again, in the Live Mail program the top left tab (that doesn't have a name but has a little "pieceofmail" icon, you should get a dropdown list that includes "Export" where you can export any or all mail. I haven't looked recently but the options included export as .eml or .csv the last time I got into it.

If you're using another PROGRAM to read your mail you'll need to tell us what it is for someone to offer anything useful.

With recent Windows Programs, Microsoft has claimed that all your "contacts" will be kept in a single folder and all Microsoft programs will be able to use any of the data from that folder. You should be able to put an address in a document or create mailing lists in Word using the address for anyone who's sent you an email = if you completed all of the data entries when you added their email address to your contacts.

The "advertising claim" has been that you can go to the folder at username\contacts and double click on any record to edit it for addy changes or to add more info. Depending on how you view stuff in Windows Explorer, you should be able to right-click in the right panel and get "New|contact," or click File|New|contact at the top, if you want to add something "from scratch." When you create a new contact there, the entry of data should be the same as if you did it in an email program that uses that set of contacts

I can't say that all email viewing programs can use that same contacts list, but you might be able to figure out where to find something similar somewhere else if you have a program that makes its own lists.

John


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Acme
Date: 01 May 13 - 10:56 PM

I updated to the IE 10 today and was locked out of my SkyDrive. The program crashed every time I tried to get there. I went into Control Panel and to my updates and uninstalled back to IE 9.

I don't get enough mail there to give that a real test. I liked the look of the old screen better. This is to big a clunky-boxy.

SRS


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 02 May 13 - 01:43 AM

They slammed me with IE10 a few weeks ago. I don't use the browser for email, and so far it hasn't shown anything noticeable that's different from IE9 as a browser. When they sneaked the "upgrade?" into a regular security download Microsoft still showed IE10 as "in beta" for Win7 on their website, only a couple of weeks after their IE web page quit saying it wasn't suitable and not to download it for Win7.

I haven't been using it long enough to be sure, but it's possible that IE10 CRASHES a little less often than IE9 was doing.

For your SkyDrive connection to crash with IE10 and not with IE9, the most likely thing may be just in settings you had in IE9 that helped SkyDrive identify you that didn't get transferred into IE10. The extreme case is that it may look, to SkyDrive, like you're using a different computer(?????).

A change in appearance could just indicate that installing IE10 reverted to default settings that are different than what you used in IE9?. (I use mostly defaults, but haven't the foggiest idea what I did for the few things I have changed.)

You probably can use IE10 okay if you can get the SkyDrive setup/login cleaned up in IE10; but I can't give any detailed suggestions since I don't use any web storage - - or any of those "managers" that promise ... well I don't believe they know more about where I want my stuff than I do so I'll leave the reasons for later.

For me, in Win7, IE10 does seem a little more stable, although my final evaluation on that point is "pending." They claim it's "more secure," although they don't explain what security differences it adds. On my machine IE10 doesn't look a bit different than IE9 did.

IFF you're using an OS version earlier than Win7 there could be some disconflugelties but Mickeysoft hasn't been too upfront - or up to date - on what "compatibility problems" might occur with an older OS.

One peculiarity that I don't remember ever seeing when I had IE9 up is that when I "open using Word" for a .txt file it asks what encoding to use. Previously it always seemed to just pick "Windows default" so all I had to do was confirm. but since IE10 entered the picture it often (between 10% and 30% of the time perhaps?) thinks all text files are in one of the rather strange "Japanese" something or other encodings and I have to change the selection before confirming. Maybe IE10 speaks Japanese better than IE9 did, but I don't know why IE10 should want to convince me that Japanese is better than ... .

John


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Acme
Date: 02 May 13 - 10:57 AM

I can get to SkyDrive from other browsers, and I can get in there with the IE9 again. But the switch back dropped all of my cookies so I have to log onto everything new again.

Darn.

SRS


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 02 May 13 - 01:28 PM

Assurance from program suppliers that their "improvements" will be so smoothly implemented that you'll never notice the change have to be assumed to have come from the advertising department rather than from anyone capable of providing technical advice.

Unfortunately Microsoft's advertising and promotional departments now seem to have grown past the point where anyone who knowns anything about how their stuff works appears unlikely to have much voice in what the users should be told.

I had little difficulty with the switch to IE10, but I don't contend with needing multiple browsers and don't have many places where I don't, by choice, do manual logins anyway, I wouldn't be likely to notice loss of cookies except for a very few of them. My few places where cookies are used to identify me don't say what causes a need for more than usual login steps, but just go to "second step" authentication - and sometimes to a third all automatically.

"Tossing your cookies" seems like something that should not have happened, but after all it was Microsloth, so maybe some allowance is required based on reasonable expectations ... (?).

John


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: John J
Date: 02 May 13 - 01:39 PM

I've used Hotmail for a number of years without any problem.
Since the 'upgrade' to Outlook it's become a pain in the derriere, slow and unresponsive.
I would MUCH rather have the old version, at least it was useable.

JJ


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Joybell
Date: 02 May 13 - 07:33 PM

I have a problem with Hotmail that I don't think has been covered here. Maybe it will go away if I wait long enough. I'm not allowed to get in unless I give them another "trusted" email address which I don't want to provide. Alternatively I can give them a phone number. If I type in my phone number they tell me it's not correct !!**$$$# It IS correct and all. Area code, country code, number, all correct.
I am managing to fool them by clicking on the word "save", after the word "change"(not having changed anything.) Usually I have to do this three times. Like an old magic spell. Bit of a laugh really. Makes me feel clever. Time wasting though.
Cheers, Joy


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 03 May 13 - 07:06 AM

The change in Hotmail was announced by Microsoft some time ago, and there were posts here giving advance notice. Those posts may have been in threads about other things, so they may have escaped notice.

A few other changes have been announced, and like the hotmail switch the schedules have been vague.

Errors that might possibly affect some in a way looks like a problem due to the hotmail change may actually be due to one of the other changes.

A particularly "interesting" (not in the best sense of the word) change was the announcement that Microsoft will be migrating some things to "double security." The Microsoft announcements attempt to pretend that this is something "new," however it's the same system used, perhaps a little differently, by many sites that require a login.

In most cases, if there's a question about your identity, you may be asked a "personal question" that presumedly only "the real you" can answer. When you set up an account that uses this system, you will have been asked to "pick a few" questions, and provide your personal answer to each. Some who use this method even allow you to make up your own questions.

IFF Microsoft is in the process of converting some or all of the affected hotmail accounts to this new system, and if they want to be it's really use the first time you log in after the change, they might be asking a "personal question" that they imagine you would know an answer for, based on your previous personal information. A phone number recorded in their account setup information would be a logical bit of "personal info." If your information has changed since the account was updated last, of course you may not give the answer they expect. For any question that asks "what is ..." you would have to give the answer to "what was ... when you created this account."

The usual workaround when there's a problem of this kind is to request a reset of your login password, and/or an update of your personal information. The "forgot password" button often will get you to the right place to do this, although since we're talking about Microsoft ... ???.

Speculatively, with not much good reason, Joybell's last problem may be because Microsoft wants to start using their "double authentication" system, and they're guessing what answer will be given when it's not now a correct answer. They probably expect the answer you would have given the last time they were up to date, and after all you're dealing with Microsoft, so .... ... ... .

"The experts" advise that when creating question/answer combinations for one of these setups, you should NEVER TELL THE TRUTH. You might tell a story publicly that mentions who a favorite teacher was, which is one pretty standard "question." Every one who sees that will expect it to be the answer you'd give for a login authentification. So LIE and pair something completely ridiculous that NobodyCouldEverGuess for any "authentication" question. (But do remember what answer you give in case they ask that question at a later login.)

This may not be the problem with Joybell's login, but IFF Microsoft is serious about this "double authentification" it will come up for someone soon.

John


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: wysiwyg
Date: 03 May 13 - 08:56 AM

JiK, I was referring to the thread topic, "hotmail becomes outlook," and am using what had been Hotmail, was Windows Live next, and is now Outlook webmail. I'm usually in regularly-updated Firefox on my desktop and laptop, and on Android tablet and phone.

I need my email and calendar to stay on the web, because in ministry you never know where you will be or whether your phone is charged, to get calendar access and prompts onto whichever device you may have on hand. I am not a fan of Google-everything-mail so I had preferred to stick with Windows Live after THAT screwed up my calendar, so I just want to find where the webmail will allow proper handling of Group addresses OR to know how to create a CSV file so I can upload a key mailing list.

~S~


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: wysiwyg
Date: 03 May 13 - 12:01 PM

CSV solved, I think. But I WOULD like to be able to click emailers' addies into my contact list like Hotmail and Live easily allowed.

~S~


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 03 May 13 - 01:20 PM

JiK, I was referring to the thread topic, "hotmail becomes outlook,"

The comments on changes to Microsoft logins are specifically related to the thread topic, since they describe (enough to help you know how to recognize them) an associated Microsoft change that may look like it's caused by the hotmail change but is caused by "something else" that is very likely to change at the same time.

How you handle contacts from inside your email depends on what application you use to manage your email. I don't know what, if any, default Hotmail/Live/Outlook/whatever-they-call-it-today uses, and there are different places for the "button" in the many "email client" programs, but there almost certainly is a simple way to add a contact for anyone who exchanges email with you. Since Microsoft "simplified" the "Mail client that used to be Outlook Express but was also previously Mail," it only requires a sequence of five clicks, the first four of which are completely "non-intuitive" for me for one way of getting to contacts, but "it's easy once you poke enough unintelligible icons to stumble into it" which is "the new way at Microsoft."

A search from inside my Office/Word for "contacts" gets a link to How to Insert Outlook Contacts Into a Word Document (I think it means the Outlook email client rather than the Outlook email service, but didn't look hard enough to be sure.) Initial comments mention using an exported CSV list so for that program how to import a CSV list will probably be in the same location.

That article, or others in the Help return may give you a clue about how to get to your contact list (or may not if you're using a client application from a marginally compliant service?). An adjacent "hit" in the same search result indicates "how to create an online contacts list" that might be generic enough to help you and might work regardless of what service/client you use.

Since any "always online" contact list probably requires you to be enrolled with a "Cloud" service, instructions from that service may be more helpful than looking in your email client, and is more likely to get you a "universal contacts list" that links into your email and any other place where you use contact lists, just like the one that's under your username at "contacts" in any recent Windows.

We can't give much help on the rules without knowing what game you're playing (and in which League).

In my "Mail" client, clicking "contacts" in the left sidebar (assuming you scroll down far enough to see it) gets a top toolbar with both "import" and "export" icons, both of which let you choose CSV. In many other client applications (including web browsers) the "File" or equivalent selection often includes both import/export. In some you can select CSV first, but in others you have to choose what to import/export before the choice of format is available.

YMMV

Another potential "interacting problem" that could "look like" the Hotmail change was at fault is mentioned in recent newsletters.

The "Babylon Toolbar" is a well-known "application" that many people find annoying but have been unable to remove. This toolbar is "bundled" with several downloads, with specific mention being to "at CNET" which is a "usually reliable" place where many people get driver downloads and other useful stuff.

Once on your computer, it may block other search engines and redirect you to Babylon Search, change your home page arbitrarily, and otherwise interfere (as with cleaning up email account changes). It is technically NOT MALWARE so your AV won't detect it as such, and can't remove it. It can make anything you try to do that includes a browser "do something else."

If "Babylon search" or a "Babylon Toolbar" or a "Babylon Translator" is on you're computer, it may be messing up your Hotmail transition, along with some other things. One set of instructions for removal, lengthy and with helpful(?) graphics precluding posting here, is at How to Remove Babylon Search Toolbar. It's not really difficult, but requires a lot of steps all in the right order. Even some not affected by the Hotmail flap might want to take a look at that removal.

John


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Joybell
Date: 03 May 13 - 08:22 PM

Thanks, John. Over the years your help has been much appreciated. I'll watch and wait. For what it's worth I've had my account for over 10 years and my phone number hasn't changed. I fondly remember the days when technology served us, and machines worked without constant attention for which we need to exhaust our creative energy. I see where some bright young man has invented a robot to give old folks interactive experiences. Please don't let them give me one of those. I'd rather talk to the 'fridge.
Joy


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 03 May 13 - 08:44 PM

In an announcement that appeared this afternoon Microsoft has officially announced that Microsoft has completed all transfers of Hotmail messages, accounts, and apps to Outlook and Microsoft has told Microsoft it was a job well done, since no users had any problems at all with the change.


????

I'd bet that makes y'all happier'n a duck under a street light when the Junebugs 'r a matin' up.

John


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: EBarnacle
Date: 09 May 13 - 05:04 PM

I just sent them another feedback note. I had to send off information about marine radio use to about 50 people. To do this, I had to laboriously way through the alphabet, finding confusing duplications in almost every letter. This made me have to ask myself whether I had included that individual earlier.

No complaints--bolshoi. Slower and more cumbersome for business uses.


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 09 May 13 - 09:25 PM

The "new" Outlook email service should be pretty much like any other service, and its only function is to receive mail addressed to you, when you connect it downloads what's been received and receives what you have to be sent, and forwards the outgoing to whoever you addressed it to.

To look at what comes to your computer and to create and send mail to others requires an email client. The "client" determines what you see, where the buttons are, and most of what you can do at "your end" of the email process, for mail that's coming or going.

A common client is just your web browser, which may connect to an "email page" at the server, usually in your account with your name on it, where there are some "helpful buttons" for a few things, but sometimes not much else.

If you use your web browser to handle your email, the "look and feel" of your email will generally depend entirely on the "page" that the email service sets up for you.

You can, with most email services, use any of a number of other email clients. Most of these are a "program" that resides on your own computer, and connects to the email service you use. Instead of opening your browser and going to your email, you usually just open the client program and it connects automatically (once you've set it up) to your email service.

If you use a client program, the "look and feel" of your email management is whatever is provided by the client you choose to use, and what you can do and how you do it is determined by the program, largely independent of the email service.

Microsoft's main email client is called Outlook. It provides lots of whistles and bells, and allows you to do pretty much anything that can be done with email. It can send/receive "instant messages," subscribe to "feeds," and even send and receive email, sort incoming, make mailing lists, and all the rest.

A "simplified" little brother to Outlook was originally called Mail, then renamed Outlook Express, and more recently back to Mail. It omits some of the "social features" (that were mostly just annoying for us) but otherwise provides nearly all the same email features. We've been using this one for about 20 years, but it's up to you whether you like it.

Thunderbird is often mentioned as a third email client, that offers lots of services and conveniences. I haven't used it, but it appears to allow (or require) you gather up "apps" to tailor its features to what you like. It may be more "configurable" than others but someone else will have to advise you.

There are a number of other client programs, but those are "the big three" so far as I know.

Iff you use a client program, the "look and feel" of your email management is whatever that client program gives you, and should be the same regardless of what email service you hook it to.

Lots of people just use their browser, and find various levels of satisfaction with that. Using the right client program can completely change the whole experience - and some like that better than others do.

In the past, not all email services allowed you to use all email clients, but I haven't heard any complaints about that recently.

For those who may never have used a client program, a recent "tip sheet" gives enough pretty pictures and instructions for how to do almost a fistful of things in the Outlook client, that might help in deciding whether you want to try one.

Take a look at Get Organized: 5 Tips for Microsoft Outlook

"When it comes to email overload, Microsoft Outlook sometimes feels like part of the problem, but with these five essential features, it will once again be part of the solution.
By Jill Duffy
May 6, 2013"

The article only covers a very few Outlook features, but the idea here is just for you to get a peek at one client.

If that looks good, Outlook should be in your default Windows installation.

The "simplified" verson, now Mail, used to be in the default Windows automatically, but with recent OS versions you'll need to go to Microsoft and download it.

Thunderbird is also a download.

John


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 May 13 - 08:24 AM

Outlook via Android is a huge mess that crippled my communications, scheduling, and getting to an appointment during a road trip this week-- all functions that had been working smoothly. Only desktop and laptop access are working, which means my purse-size road gear are now obsolete! and it's back to laptop-toting. Firefox on tablet MAY work now, but I am pretty sure that the older tablet will soon be unable to handle the online Outlook access.

This experienced trend-spotter sees Microsoft about to unveil their next Apple-competitive, expensive toy..... like THAT has ever been behind their "little boo boos."

Don't forget that Soylent Green prognostication, now....

~S~


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Acme
Date: 11 May 13 - 05:26 PM

I have used Mozilla Thunderbird for years. I have five or six accounts that feed into it. On my home computer it downloads all of them; on my work computer I use the IMAP version (doesn't download).

I used to use Pegasus Pmail, but though it had complex features, it never got easier to use.

I have Microsoft Office, so I have Outlook, but I don't use it on my home computer. I use it at work and it has a lot of strengths, but Outlook was a target for spam and harvesting mail for so long that I never adopted it for my personal mail.

SRS


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 11 May 13 - 06:21 PM

Although the Outlook email client comes with Windows, we've found that its ability to spam us with "text messages" (not quite the same as email), "Instant Messages," and other "features" were more a handicap than a help.

The Simpler "Mail" (formerly Outlook Express) client lets us send and receive email, "mailing list" addressing is fairly simple, and all contacts are replicated in the Windows\User\Contacts folder where they're usable for lookups and/or for things like snail mail addressing in other Office programs. Of some importance to our previous business use was that "backup" of messages (on our own computer - off the web) was also easy, although that's less important now.

You do have to go to Microsoft to download the "Mail" program for recent Win versions (may be called "Mail-Live" now?.

We've found that "what we need and NOTHING ELSE" is much better than something that "does everything" when most of their "everything" is just junk for us (and advertising dollars for them, of course).

YMMV, obviously.

John


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Acme
Date: 12 May 13 - 12:35 AM

If it was easier to get the phone to connect to my cloud space I wouldn't mind uploading my photos there. As it is my various photo accounts have apps that I've tried - but they all have drawbacks. They start uploading at an inconvenient time, or they want to download everything that is on the web site as a thumbnail in the phone.

I've been using Microsoft's SkyDrive from my computer, but haven't had luck getting to it via my phone.

SRS


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 14 May 13 - 04:52 PM

A Possible(?) Benefit(??) from the switch from Hotmail to Outlook.com is reported:

Outlook.com to let users engage in IM chats with Gmail users

Microsoft says this new feature is 'one more reason to make the switch' from Gmail to Outlook.com

By Juan Carlos Perez | 14 May 13

Microsoft is upgrading its new Outlook.com webmail service so that its users can communicate with Gmail users via instant messaging.

...

More at the link, including some links to other articles on the subject of the whole mess.

You'll have to decide for yourselves whether IM directly to/from your email reader is a big deal.

John


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 14 May 13 - 05:36 PM

Well, I totally hate it. All it does is reduce my screen-size and lop off a couple of inches on the right, to make way for a Chat/IM column that I ain't never gonna use. Can't figure a way to order the damn thing go away, either. There doesn't seem to be any Hide option. So I'm just left with a wasted blank grey area which eats up space for info I want, like senders' names, subject headings, and other inconsequential frivolities. John please please tell me there's a way to Disappear it, which I've managed to miss...


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 14 May 13 - 07:29 PM

Since I don't have any intention of ever using it, it's unlikely I'll ever get a good look at what controls are available, but in most such programs, if there is a "files," "view," or "tools" selection that may be where you'll find options to turn "features" on or off. With the "modern" trend to unintelligible icons and an icon for everything you're allowed to do, about all I can suggest is click everything one at a time and see if you can guess what happened. (30% right indicates you're an idiot, 10% is a pretty good score, if you get a zero it means you really understand. - Microserfs all have to beat 94% to get paid this week.)

Of course with the Win8 influence you're supposed to be able to just "wave things on and off the screen" so "jump down, turn around, ..." well you probably know the rest of that song better than I do. I think the Microsoft idea is that if you don't wiggle and waggle until you're dizzy and daft it's not supposed to do anything, because otherwise you'd realize it doesn't actually do much of anything very useful.

John


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 14 May 13 - 07:41 PM

Can't find any. But I did find my Account Settings. And when I click on it, it takes me to a blank inert screen with "Error" buried in amongst general URL gibberish. Really inspires confidence -


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 15 May 13 - 12:42 AM

Given Microsoft's recent support reputation, I almost hate to suggest it; but have you tried looking through their FAQs for Outlook.com?

Regardless of how bad, or how good, a program is, you have to get to know it in order to drive on the right side of the bomb craters. You likely won't find answers to the questions that seem most important to you now; but the things you do find may help you get sufficiently more acquainted with how it works to make it easier to work around the nits until you do find your answers.

If you wanna know how it works, ya gotta waste some time with it.

John


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 15 May 13 - 05:18 AM

Yep. Nada that I could see. I shouldn't need to go on a major expedition for something as basic as a screen display option!

Think I'll just live with the damn blanked-out space on my screen. That isn't my main email programme anyway - and this sort of time-wasting annoyance is a good indication of why. My Account Settings (where this selection may be lurking) don't even work!

They should give us a clear, visible Show/Hide option (the other programmes can manage it, why can't M$?) just as there should be - as has already been pointed out above - a clear, visible Forward button which you shouldn't need to go hunting for in the menus. These are basic commands and there's plenty of room on the screen to display them. They just haven't bothered. They must assume that when I see an Instant Message while I'm trying to write or process email (which is spam, often as not) I'll think Ooooohh Goodie! An interruption! Just what I want! As if I'm not totally capable of distracting myself…

If Micro$oft imagines I'm going to spend my good worktime and limited supply of patience floundering around in their sea of Help info (which often isn't - I've already been there and looked for this, though superficially) then they need to wake up to the fact that I'll just take that time elsewhere. As I mainly do.

Thanks as always for the tecchie support anyway. Even on stuff you don't use, you're helpful!


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Howard Jones
Date: 15 May 13 - 08:04 AM

There's a rectangular speech-bubble icon at the top-right of the page, next to the settings cogwheel, which turns the messaging pane on and off. However, if you turn it off you're still left with empty space where Outlook wants to display the name of the contact and allow you to connect on Facebook. You can turn off the setting in Facebook which allows it to connect to outlook but it doesn't seem to get rid of the blank pane> Annoying.


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 15 May 13 - 08:09 AM

Yeh! Been there, done that. WHY they want to annoy people who've *told* them they don't want Messaging is beyond me -


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: John J
Date: 15 May 13 - 09:23 AM

Like many people, I'm finding the Hotmail / Outlook thing to be an absolute pain in the derriere.

The frequent messages telling me that 'We can't connect to Outlook at the moment. Please try again later.' just winds me up. It very rarely happened before the change-over.

Hotmail was perfectly adequate and functional for my purposes before, but in it's present guise it's bloody awful.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Many thanks to John in Kansas for his input. John posts are always informed, and you just KNOW that what he says is worth reading.

JJ


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 May 13 - 09:33 AM

Thunderbird.


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 15 May 13 - 10:37 AM

But that's just a client. This came attached to a hotmail account I already had and liked perfectly well until now. I use that email address in several situations which I don't want to have to get a new one and change to. It's not my main account so it's easier to just put up with the crap and spend as little time there as possible. Which is probably not the response Microsoft are looking for.


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 15 May 13 - 11:15 AM

PS: Does anybody wanna bet that the blank column isn't being reserved for advertising?

Didn't think so -


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: GUEST,wisc guest
Date: 15 May 13 - 04:57 PM

It is amazing how effective washing the fone with my laundry (and then replacing the rice-resurrected fone) was in making Outlook work better. The HUGE new memory capacity, newer Android version, and superb processor may not have hurt either.

;-¦

:S


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Acme
Date: 15 May 13 - 05:00 PM

I don't think Hotmail or Outlook can be downloaded into Thunderbird, can they? Just like Yahoo mail. Those free versions require that you either use the paid-for Outlook version or you use the web access to the account. It was startling and refreshing that gmail would not only make it easy to download your account mail into an email client, that they would put up instructions and make it so easy. Now with Thunderbird it knows how to set up Gmail accounts in a way that it is almost seamless.

Yahoo lets you download if you pay an annual fee for the Yahoo account (or they used to - it has been years since I used Yahoo mail much.) I don't know about Outlook - is there a way to pay a fee to download the messages into a client like Thunderbird?

SRS


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 15 May 13 - 05:18 PM

I have the free non-premium version and found this option, which doesn't say anything about needing to pay a fee. So it looks like if you have some other account in T'bird, you could access your Outlook mail through that. Page sez:

Email forwarding Inbox > Options > Email forwarding

You can forward your mail to one other email account.
Important note: Please sign in at least once every 365 days—otherwise your account looks inactive and could be deleted.

[TICK BOXES & DIALOGUE WINDOW]:

Don't forward

Forward your mail to another email account

Where do you want your messages to be sent?
Example: name@example.com

Keep a copy of forwarded messages in your Outlook inbox.


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 15 May 13 - 09:08 PM

I tried looking for information on "Outlook.com" at Microsoft and didn't find anything. The only "result" took me to a sign-in page to "go to my email." (I don't have any of that there to log in to, but it did convince me the setup is incredibly UGLY.)

A Google search for "What is Outlook.com" got quite a bit of commentary, and wasting some time in those might get some clues that would help with how to use your new toy(s). Sometimes what people say about something is helpful and sometimes it isn't.

The Wiki article in the Google returns in particular gives a "list of things you can do" that might be helpful, but no info about how to do them.

A conspicuous feature of the results for that particular search was that the first few pages of "returns" included absolutely NOTHING from Microsoft. (What a surprise!)

John


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Acme
Date: 15 May 13 - 10:58 PM

Forwarding is not the same as a straight download from the original mail server. You would have to forward it to a site (like gmail or a commercial provider of your Internet service) that lets you freely download into Thunderbird.

SRS


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 16 May 13 - 03:49 AM

Yes, I know - but that's all I could find on the subject, premium OR free. They'll import things readily enough, I notice -


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Acme
Date: 16 May 13 - 02:32 PM

They're hoping for brand loyalty, people who got Outlook with their Microsoft Office, to have them bring outside accounts into Outlook. I have a friend who used to pay for AOL years ago and still uses their web site for his email. They still have a browser, but I suspect it isn't updated much. I still haven't convinced him to use one of the other browsers, so he regularly complains that some file can't be opened or viewed - and has to be reminded to use Firefox, etc. He's the kind of customer they want - who continues to use a dead technology out of loyalty.

SRS


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Acme
Date: 17 May 13 - 01:04 PM

Just sorted through the header of an email, supposedly from an old friend, who has (according to the poorly written text, remarkable for this talented writer) says she needs Euros to pay for a relative's surgery in South Africa.

The header and the traffic seems to point at the MSN site, but it's all a hack. And I suspect that she uses Outlook, which is probably still a primary target of phishing viruses.

SRS


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 19 Jun 13 - 12:33 PM

A NEW CHANGE in Outlook.com has been announced. The article is rather long, and probably will have little effect on most users here, but may be of interest to a few. There also are some links to peripherally interesting subjects vaguely related to email topics.

If interested, take a look at:

Microsoft kills linked accounts in Outlook.com

The gist of the article is that Microsoft is ending "linked accounts" but will substitute "aliased accounts." It might be of interest if you know the difference - or can figure it out from the article. They claim it improves security.

John


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Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Acme
Date: 19 Jun 13 - 04:44 PM

Thanks, John!


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