Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Jun 13 - 04:44 PM

Thanks, John!

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 19 Jun 13 - 12:33 PM

A NEW CHANGE in Outlook.com has been announced. The article is rather long, and probably will have little effect on most users here, but may be of interest to a few. There also are some links to peripherally interesting subjects vaguely related to email topics.

If interested, take a look at:

Microsoft kills linked accounts in Outlook.com

The gist of the article is that Microsoft is ending "linked accounts" but will substitute "aliased accounts." It might be of interest if you know the difference - or can figure it out from the article. They claim it improves security.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 May 13 - 01:04 PM

Just sorted through the header of an email, supposedly from an old friend, who has (according to the poorly written text, remarkable for this talented writer) says she needs Euros to pay for a relative's surgery in South Africa.

The header and the traffic seems to point at the MSN site, but it's all a hack. And I suspect that she uses Outlook, which is probably still a primary target of phishing viruses.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 May 13 - 02:32 PM

They're hoping for brand loyalty, people who got Outlook with their Microsoft Office, to have them bring outside accounts into Outlook. I have a friend who used to pay for AOL years ago and still uses their web site for his email. They still have a browser, but I suspect it isn't updated much. I still haven't convinced him to use one of the other browsers, so he regularly complains that some file can't be opened or viewed - and has to be reminded to use Firefox, etc. He's the kind of customer they want - who continues to use a dead technology out of loyalty.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 16 May 13 - 03:49 AM

Yes, I know - but that's all I could find on the subject, premium OR free. They'll import things readily enough, I notice -

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 May 13 - 10:58 PM

Forwarding is not the same as a straight download from the original mail server. You would have to forward it to a site (like gmail or a commercial provider of your Internet service) that lets you freely download into Thunderbird.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 15 May 13 - 09:08 PM

I tried looking for information on "Outlook.com" at Microsoft and didn't find anything. The only "result" took me to a sign-in page to "go to my email." (I don't have any of that there to log in to, but it did convince me the setup is incredibly UGLY.)

A Google search for "What is Outlook.com" got quite a bit of commentary, and wasting some time in those might get some clues that would help with how to use your new toy(s). Sometimes what people say about something is helpful and sometimes it isn't.

The Wiki article in the Google returns in particular gives a "list of things you can do" that might be helpful, but no info about how to do them.

A conspicuous feature of the results for that particular search was that the first few pages of "returns" included absolutely NOTHING from Microsoft. (What a surprise!)

John

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 15 May 13 - 05:18 PM

I have the free non-premium version and found this option, which doesn't say anything about needing to pay a fee. So it looks like if you have some other account in T'bird, you could access your Outlook mail through that. Page sez:

Email forwarding Inbox > Options > Email forwarding

You can forward your mail to one other email account.
Important note: Please sign in at least once every 365 days—otherwise your account looks inactive and could be deleted.

[TICK BOXES & DIALOGUE WINDOW]:

Don't forward

Forward your mail to another email account

Where do you want your messages to be sent?
Example: [e-mail]

Keep a copy of forwarded messages in your Outlook inbox.

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 May 13 - 05:00 PM

I don't think Hotmail or Outlook can be downloaded into Thunderbird, can they? Just like Yahoo mail. Those free versions require that you either use the paid-for Outlook version or you use the web access to the account. It was startling and refreshing that gmail would not only make it easy to download your account mail into an email client, that they would put up instructions and make it so easy. Now with Thunderbird it knows how to set up Gmail accounts in a way that it is almost seamless.

Yahoo lets you download if you pay an annual fee for the Yahoo account (or they used to - it has been years since I used Yahoo mail much.) I don't know about Outlook - is there a way to pay a fee to download the messages into a client like Thunderbird?

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: GUEST,wisc guest
Date: 15 May 13 - 04:57 PM

It is amazing how effective washing the fone with my laundry (and then replacing the rice-resurrected fone) was in making Outlook work better. The HUGE new memory capacity, newer Android version, and superb processor may not have hurt either.

;-¦

:S

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 15 May 13 - 11:15 AM

PS: Does anybody wanna bet that the blank column isn't being reserved for advertising?

Didn't think so -

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 15 May 13 - 10:37 AM

But that's just a client. This came attached to a hotmail account I already had and liked perfectly well until now. I use that email address in several situations which I don't want to have to get a new one and change to. It's not my main account so it's easier to just put up with the crap and spend as little time there as possible. Which is probably not the response Microsoft are looking for.

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 May 13 - 09:33 AM

Thunderbird.

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: John J
Date: 15 May 13 - 09:23 AM

Like many people, I'm finding the Hotmail / Outlook thing to be an absolute pain in the derriere.

The frequent messages telling me that 'We can't connect to Outlook at the moment. Please try again later.' just winds me up. It very rarely happened before the change-over.

Hotmail was perfectly adequate and functional for my purposes before, but in it's present guise it's bloody awful.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Many thanks to John in Kansas for his input. John posts are always informed, and you just KNOW that what he says is worth reading.

JJ

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 15 May 13 - 08:09 AM

Yeh! Been there, done that. WHY they want to annoy people who've *told* them they don't want Messaging is beyond me -

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Howard Jones
Date: 15 May 13 - 08:04 AM

There's a rectangular speech-bubble icon at the top-right of the page, next to the settings cogwheel, which turns the messaging pane on and off. However, if you turn it off you're still left with empty space where Outlook wants to display the name of the contact and allow you to connect on Facebook. You can turn off the setting in Facebook which allows it to connect to outlook but it doesn't seem to get rid of the blank pane> Annoying.

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 15 May 13 - 05:18 AM

Yep. Nada that I could see. I shouldn't need to go on a major expedition for something as basic as a screen display option!

Think I'll just live with the damn blanked-out space on my screen. That isn't my main email programme anyway - and this sort of time-wasting annoyance is a good indication of why. My Account Settings (where this selection may be lurking) don't even work!

They should give us a clear, visible Show/Hide option (the other programmes can manage it, why can't M$?) just as there should be - as has already been pointed out above - a clear, visible Forward button which you shouldn't need to go hunting for in the menus. These are basic commands and there's plenty of room on the screen to display them. They just haven't bothered. They must assume that when I see an Instant Message while I'm trying to write or process email (which is spam, often as not) I'll think Ooooohh Goodie! An interruption! Just what I want! As if I'm not totally capable of distracting myself…

If Micro$oft imagines I'm going to spend my good worktime and limited supply of patience floundering around in their sea of Help info (which often isn't - I've already been there and looked for this, though superficially) then they need to wake up to the fact that I'll just take that time elsewhere. As I mainly do.

Thanks as always for the tecchie support anyway. Even on stuff you don't use, you're helpful!

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 15 May 13 - 12:42 AM

Given Microsoft's recent support reputation, I almost hate to suggest it; but have you tried looking through their FAQs for Outlook.com?

Regardless of how bad, or how good, a program is, you have to get to know it in order to drive on the right side of the bomb craters. You likely won't find answers to the questions that seem most important to you now; but the things you do find may help you get sufficiently more acquainted with how it works to make it easier to work around the nits until you do find your answers.

If you wanna know how it works, ya gotta waste some time with it.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 14 May 13 - 07:41 PM

Can't find any. But I did find my Account Settings. And when I click on it, it takes me to a blank inert screen with "Error" buried in amongst general URL gibberish. Really inspires confidence -

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 14 May 13 - 07:29 PM

Since I don't have any intention of ever using it, it's unlikely I'll ever get a good look at what controls are available, but in most such programs, if there is a "files," "view," or "tools" selection that may be where you'll find options to turn "features" on or off. With the "modern" trend to unintelligible icons and an icon for everything you're allowed to do, about all I can suggest is click everything one at a time and see if you can guess what happened. (30% right indicates you're an idiot, 10% is a pretty good score, if you get a zero it means you really understand. - Microserfs all have to beat 94% to get paid this week.)

Of course with the Win8 influence you're supposed to be able to just "wave things on and off the screen" so "jump down, turn around, ..." well you probably know the rest of that song better than I do. I think the Microsoft idea is that if you don't wiggle and waggle until you're dizzy and daft it's not supposed to do anything, because otherwise you'd realize it doesn't actually do much of anything very useful.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 14 May 13 - 05:36 PM

Well, I totally hate it. All it does is reduce my screen-size and lop off a couple of inches on the right, to make way for a Chat/IM column that I ain't never gonna use. Can't figure a way to order the damn thing go away, either. There doesn't seem to be any Hide option. So I'm just left with a wasted blank grey area which eats up space for info I want, like senders' names, subject headings, and other inconsequential frivolities. John please please tell me there's a way to Disappear it, which I've managed to miss...

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 14 May 13 - 04:52 PM

A Possible(?) Benefit(??) from the switch from Hotmail to Outlook.com is reported:

Outlook.com to let users engage in IM chats with Gmail users

Microsoft says this new feature is 'one more reason to make the switch' from Gmail to Outlook.com

By Juan Carlos Perez | 14 May 13

Microsoft is upgrading its new Outlook.com webmail service so that its users can communicate with Gmail users via instant messaging.

...

More at the link, including some links to other articles on the subject of the whole mess.

You'll have to decide for yourselves whether IM directly to/from your email reader is a big deal.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 May 13 - 12:35 AM

If it was easier to get the phone to connect to my cloud space I wouldn't mind uploading my photos there. As it is my various photo accounts have apps that I've tried - but they all have drawbacks. They start uploading at an inconvenient time, or they want to download everything that is on the web site as a thumbnail in the phone.

I've been using Microsoft's SkyDrive from my computer, but haven't had luck getting to it via my phone.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 11 May 13 - 06:21 PM

Although the Outlook email client comes with Windows, we've found that its ability to spam us with "text messages" (not quite the same as email), "Instant Messages," and other "features" were more a handicap than a help.

The Simpler "Mail" (formerly Outlook Express) client lets us send and receive email, "mailing list" addressing is fairly simple, and all contacts are replicated in the Windows\User\Contacts folder where they're usable for lookups and/or for things like snail mail addressing in other Office programs. Of some importance to our previous business use was that "backup" of messages (on our own computer - off the web) was also easy, although that's less important now.

You do have to go to Microsoft to download the "Mail" program for recent Win versions (may be called "Mail-Live" now?.

We've found that "what we need and NOTHING ELSE" is much better than something that "does everything" when most of their "everything" is just junk for us (and advertising dollars for them, of course).

YMMV, obviously.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 May 13 - 05:26 PM

I have used Mozilla Thunderbird for years. I have five or six accounts that feed into it. On my home computer it downloads all of them; on my work computer I use the IMAP version (doesn't download).

I used to use Pegasus Pmail, but though it had complex features, it never got easier to use.

I have Microsoft Office, so I have Outlook, but I don't use it on my home computer. I use it at work and it has a lot of strengths, but Outlook was a target for spam and harvesting mail for so long that I never adopted it for my personal mail.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 May 13 - 08:24 AM

Outlook via Android is a huge mess that crippled my communications, scheduling, and getting to an appointment during a road trip this week-- all functions that had been working smoothly. Only desktop and laptop access are working, which means my purse-size road gear are now obsolete! and it's back to laptop-toting. Firefox on tablet MAY work now, but I am pretty sure that the older tablet will soon be unable to handle the online Outlook access.

This experienced trend-spotter sees Microsoft about to unveil their next Apple-competitive, expensive toy..... like THAT has ever been behind their "little boo boos."

Don't forget that Soylent Green prognostication, now....

~S~

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 09 May 13 - 09:25 PM

The "new" Outlook email service should be pretty much like any other service, and its only function is to receive mail addressed to you, when you connect it downloads what's been received and receives what you have to be sent, and forwards the outgoing to whoever you addressed it to.

To look at what comes to your computer and to create and send mail to others requires an email client. The "client" determines what you see, where the buttons are, and most of what you can do at "your end" of the email process, for mail that's coming or going.

A common client is just your web browser, which may connect to an "email page" at the server, usually in your account with your name on it, where there are some "helpful buttons" for a few things, but sometimes not much else.

If you use your web browser to handle your email, the "look and feel" of your email will generally depend entirely on the "page" that the email service sets up for you.

You can, with most email services, use any of a number of other email clients. Most of these are a "program" that resides on your own computer, and connects to the email service you use. Instead of opening your browser and going to your email, you usually just open the client program and it connects automatically (once you've set it up) to your email service.

If you use a client program, the "look and feel" of your email management is whatever is provided by the client you choose to use, and what you can do and how you do it is determined by the program, largely independent of the email service.

Microsoft's main email client is called Outlook. It provides lots of whistles and bells, and allows you to do pretty much anything that can be done with email. It can send/receive "instant messages," subscribe to "feeds," and even send and receive email, sort incoming, make mailing lists, and all the rest.

A "simplified" little brother to Outlook was originally called Mail, then renamed Outlook Express, and more recently back to Mail. It omits some of the "social features" (that were mostly just annoying for us) but otherwise provides nearly all the same email features. We've been using this one for about 20 years, but it's up to you whether you like it.

Thunderbird is often mentioned as a third email client, that offers lots of services and conveniences. I haven't used it, but it appears to allow (or require) you gather up "apps" to tailor its features to what you like. It may be more "configurable" than others but someone else will have to advise you.

There are a number of other client programs, but those are "the big three" so far as I know.

Iff you use a client program, the "look and feel" of your email management is whatever that client program gives you, and should be the same regardless of what email service you hook it to.

Lots of people just use their browser, and find various levels of satisfaction with that. Using the right client program can completely change the whole experience - and some like that better than others do.

In the past, not all email services allowed you to use all email clients, but I haven't heard any complaints about that recently.

For those who may never have used a client program, a recent "tip sheet" gives enough pretty pictures and instructions for how to do almost a fistful of things in the Outlook client, that might help in deciding whether you want to try one.

Take a look at Get Organized: 5 Tips for Microsoft Outlook

"When it comes to email overload, Microsoft Outlook sometimes feels like part of the problem, but with these five essential features, it will once again be part of the solution.
By Jill Duffy
May 6, 2013"

The article only covers a very few Outlook features, but the idea here is just for you to get a peek at one client.

If that looks good, Outlook should be in your default Windows installation.

The "simplified" verson, now Mail, used to be in the default Windows automatically, but with recent OS versions you'll need to go to Microsoft and download it.

Thunderbird is also a download.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: EBarnacle
Date: 09 May 13 - 05:04 PM

I just sent them another feedback note. I had to send off information about marine radio use to about 50 people. To do this, I had to laboriously way through the alphabet, finding confusing duplications in almost every letter. This made me have to ask myself whether I had included that individual earlier.

No complaints--bolshoi. Slower and more cumbersome for business uses.

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 03 May 13 - 08:44 PM

In an announcement that appeared this afternoon Microsoft has officially announced that Microsoft has completed all transfers of Hotmail messages, accounts, and apps to Outlook and Microsoft has told Microsoft it was a job well done, since no users had any problems at all with the change.


????

I'd bet that makes y'all happier'n a duck under a street light when the Junebugs 'r a matin' up.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Joybell
Date: 03 May 13 - 08:22 PM

Thanks, John. Over the years your help has been much appreciated. I'll watch and wait. For what it's worth I've had my account for over 10 years and my phone number hasn't changed. I fondly remember the days when technology served us, and machines worked without constant attention for which we need to exhaust our creative energy. I see where some bright young man has invented a robot to give old folks interactive experiences. Please don't let them give me one of those. I'd rather talk to the 'fridge.
Joy

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 03 May 13 - 01:20 PM

JiK, I was referring to the thread topic, "hotmail becomes outlook,"

The comments on changes to Microsoft logins are specifically related to the thread topic, since they describe (enough to help you know how to recognize them) an associated Microsoft change that may look like it's caused by the hotmail change but is caused by "something else" that is very likely to change at the same time.

How you handle contacts from inside your email depends on what application you use to manage your email. I don't know what, if any, default Hotmail/Live/Outlook/whatever-they-call-it-today uses, and there are different places for the "button" in the many "email client" programs, but there almost certainly is a simple way to add a contact for anyone who exchanges email with you. Since Microsoft "simplified" the "Mail client that used to be Outlook Express but was also previously Mail," it only requires a sequence of five clicks, the first four of which are completely "non-intuitive" for me for one way of getting to contacts, but "it's easy once you poke enough unintelligible icons to stumble into it" which is "the new way at Microsoft."

A search from inside my Office/Word for "contacts" gets a link to How to Insert Outlook Contacts Into a Word Document (I think it means the Outlook email client rather than the Outlook email service, but didn't look hard enough to be sure.) Initial comments mention using an exported CSV list so for that program how to import a CSV list will probably be in the same location.

That article, or others in the Help return may give you a clue about how to get to your contact list (or may not if you're using a client application from a marginally compliant service?). An adjacent "hit" in the same search result indicates "how to create an online contacts list" that might be generic enough to help you and might work regardless of what service/client you use.

Since any "always online" contact list probably requires you to be enrolled with a "Cloud" service, instructions from that service may be more helpful than looking in your email client, and is more likely to get you a "universal contacts list" that links into your email and any other place where you use contact lists, just like the one that's under your username at "contacts" in any recent Windows.

We can't give much help on the rules without knowing what game you're playing (and in which League).

In my "Mail" client, clicking "contacts" in the left sidebar (assuming you scroll down far enough to see it) gets a top toolbar with both "import" and "export" icons, both of which let you choose CSV. In many other client applications (including web browsers) the "File" or equivalent selection often includes both import/export. In some you can select CSV first, but in others you have to choose what to import/export before the choice of format is available.

YMMV

Another potential "interacting problem" that could "look like" the Hotmail change was at fault is mentioned in recent newsletters.

The "Babylon Toolbar" is a well-known "application" that many people find annoying but have been unable to remove. This toolbar is "bundled" with several downloads, with specific mention being to "at CNET" which is a "usually reliable" place where many people get driver downloads and other useful stuff.

Once on your computer, it may block other search engines and redirect you to Babylon Search, change your home page arbitrarily, and otherwise interfere (as with cleaning up email account changes). It is technically NOT MALWARE so your AV won't detect it as such, and can't remove it. It can make anything you try to do that includes a browser "do something else."

If "Babylon search" or a "Babylon Toolbar" or a "Babylon Translator" is on you're computer, it may be messing up your Hotmail transition, along with some other things. One set of instructions for removal, lengthy and with helpful(?) graphics precluding posting here, is at How to Remove Babylon Search Toolbar. It's not really difficult, but requires a lot of steps all in the right order. Even some not affected by the Hotmail flap might want to take a look at that removal.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: wysiwyg
Date: 03 May 13 - 12:01 PM

CSV solved, I think. But I WOULD like to be able to click emailers' addies into my contact list like Hotmail and Live easily allowed.

~S~

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: wysiwyg
Date: 03 May 13 - 08:56 AM

JiK, I was referring to the thread topic, "hotmail becomes outlook," and am using what had been Hotmail, was Windows Live next, and is now Outlook webmail. I'm usually in regularly-updated Firefox on my desktop and laptop, and on Android tablet and phone.

I need my email and calendar to stay on the web, because in ministry you never know where you will be or whether your phone is charged, to get calendar access and prompts onto whichever device you may have on hand. I am not a fan of Google-everything-mail so I had preferred to stick with Windows Live after THAT screwed up my calendar, so I just want to find where the webmail will allow proper handling of Group addresses OR to know how to create a CSV file so I can upload a key mailing list.

~S~

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 03 May 13 - 07:06 AM

The change in Hotmail was announced by Microsoft some time ago, and there were posts here giving advance notice. Those posts may have been in threads about other things, so they may have escaped notice.

A few other changes have been announced, and like the hotmail switch the schedules have been vague.

Errors that might possibly affect some in a way looks like a problem due to the hotmail change may actually be due to one of the other changes.

A particularly "interesting" (not in the best sense of the word) change was the announcement that Microsoft will be migrating some things to "double security." The Microsoft announcements attempt to pretend that this is something "new," however it's the same system used, perhaps a little differently, by many sites that require a login.

In most cases, if there's a question about your identity, you may be asked a "personal question" that presumedly only "the real you" can answer. When you set up an account that uses this system, you will have been asked to "pick a few" questions, and provide your personal answer to each. Some who use this method even allow you to make up your own questions.

IFF Microsoft is in the process of converting some or all of the affected hotmail accounts to this new system, and if they want to be it's really use the first time you log in after the change, they might be asking a "personal question" that they imagine you would know an answer for, based on your previous personal information. A phone number recorded in their account setup information would be a logical bit of "personal info." If your information has changed since the account was updated last, of course you may not give the answer they expect. For any question that asks "what is ..." you would have to give the answer to "what was ... when you created this account."

The usual workaround when there's a problem of this kind is to request a reset of your login password, and/or an update of your personal information. The "forgot password" button often will get you to the right place to do this, although since we're talking about Microsoft ... ???.

Speculatively, with not much good reason, Joybell's last problem may be because Microsoft wants to start using their "double authentication" system, and they're guessing what answer will be given when it's not now a correct answer. They probably expect the answer you would have given the last time they were up to date, and after all you're dealing with Microsoft, so .... ... ... .

"The experts" advise that when creating question/answer combinations for one of these setups, you should NEVER TELL THE TRUTH. You might tell a story publicly that mentions who a favorite teacher was, which is one pretty standard "question." Every one who sees that will expect it to be the answer you'd give for a login authentification. So LIE and pair something completely ridiculous that NobodyCouldEverGuess for any "authentication" question. (But do remember what answer you give in case they ask that question at a later login.)

This may not be the problem with Joybell's login, but IFF Microsoft is serious about this "double authentification" it will come up for someone soon.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Joybell
Date: 02 May 13 - 07:33 PM

I have a problem with Hotmail that I don't think has been covered here. Maybe it will go away if I wait long enough. I'm not allowed to get in unless I give them another "trusted" email address which I don't want to provide. Alternatively I can give them a phone number. If I type in my phone number they tell me it's not correct !!**$$$# It IS correct and all. Area code, country code, number, all correct.
I am managing to fool them by clicking on the word "save", after the word "change"(not having changed anything.) Usually I have to do this three times. Like an old magic spell. Bit of a laugh really. Makes me feel clever. Time wasting though.
Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: John J
Date: 02 May 13 - 01:39 PM

I've used Hotmail for a number of years without any problem.
Since the 'upgrade' to Outlook it's become a pain in the derriere, slow and unresponsive.
I would MUCH rather have the old version, at least it was useable.

JJ

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 02 May 13 - 01:28 PM

Assurance from program suppliers that their "improvements" will be so smoothly implemented that you'll never notice the change have to be assumed to have come from the advertising department rather than from anyone capable of providing technical advice.

Unfortunately Microsoft's advertising and promotional departments now seem to have grown past the point where anyone who knowns anything about how their stuff works appears unlikely to have much voice in what the users should be told.

I had little difficulty with the switch to IE10, but I don't contend with needing multiple browsers and don't have many places where I don't, by choice, do manual logins anyway, I wouldn't be likely to notice loss of cookies except for a very few of them. My few places where cookies are used to identify me don't say what causes a need for more than usual login steps, but just go to "second step" authentication - and sometimes to a third all automatically.

"Tossing your cookies" seems like something that should not have happened, but after all it was Microsloth, so maybe some allowance is required based on reasonable expectations ... (?).

John

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 May 13 - 10:57 AM

I can get to SkyDrive from other browsers, and I can get in there with the IE9 again. But the switch back dropped all of my cookies so I have to log onto everything new again.

Darn.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 02 May 13 - 01:43 AM

They slammed me with IE10 a few weeks ago. I don't use the browser for email, and so far it hasn't shown anything noticeable that's different from IE9 as a browser. When they sneaked the "upgrade?" into a regular security download Microsoft still showed IE10 as "in beta" for Win7 on their website, only a couple of weeks after their IE web page quit saying it wasn't suitable and not to download it for Win7.

I haven't been using it long enough to be sure, but it's possible that IE10 CRASHES a little less often than IE9 was doing.

For your SkyDrive connection to crash with IE10 and not with IE9, the most likely thing may be just in settings you had in IE9 that helped SkyDrive identify you that didn't get transferred into IE10. The extreme case is that it may look, to SkyDrive, like you're using a different computer(?????).

A change in appearance could just indicate that installing IE10 reverted to default settings that are different than what you used in IE9?. (I use mostly defaults, but haven't the foggiest idea what I did for the few things I have changed.)

You probably can use IE10 okay if you can get the SkyDrive setup/login cleaned up in IE10; but I can't give any detailed suggestions since I don't use any web storage - - or any of those "managers" that promise ... well I don't believe they know more about where I want my stuff than I do so I'll leave the reasons for later.

For me, in Win7, IE10 does seem a little more stable, although my final evaluation on that point is "pending." They claim it's "more secure," although they don't explain what security differences it adds. On my machine IE10 doesn't look a bit different than IE9 did.

IFF you're using an OS version earlier than Win7 there could be some disconflugelties but Mickeysoft hasn't been too upfront - or up to date - on what "compatibility problems" might occur with an older OS.

One peculiarity that I don't remember ever seeing when I had IE9 up is that when I "open using Word" for a .txt file it asks what encoding to use. Previously it always seemed to just pick "Windows default" so all I had to do was confirm. but since IE10 entered the picture it often (between 10% and 30% of the time perhaps?) thinks all text files are in one of the rather strange "Japanese" something or other encodings and I have to change the selection before confirming. Maybe IE10 speaks Japanese better than IE9 did, but I don't know why IE10 should want to convince me that Japanese is better than ... .

John

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 May 13 - 10:56 PM

I updated to the IE 10 today and was locked out of my SkyDrive. The program crashed every time I tried to get there. I went into Control Panel and to my updates and uninstalled back to IE 9.

I don't get enough mail there to give that a real test. I liked the look of the old screen better. This is to big a clunky-boxy.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 01 May 13 - 02:49 PM

WYS -

How you add contacts usually depends on what PROGRAM you use to handle your email, and doesn't depend on where your email comes and goes from - i.e. what SERVICE you use.

We were using Outlook Express the last time we studied the problem, and went to the newer MAIL when they renamed what was called Mail before Win98 changed it to Outlook Express and then changed it back to Mail for Vista. It now says Live Mail when we open the program, although we've never created a "Live" account. Just another one of those things Mickey will explain when we meet Mrs Pope.

In Mail - or Live Mail (the PROGRAM) as it's now called, at the bottom left there is a "contacts" you can click to get the option to "add to contacts" to put the addy for whoever sent the email you're looking at, or open your contacts list to do more general editing. YOU MAY NEED TO SCROLL DOWN in that left "bar" to get to it, depending on your screen size, but the "Window" that lists emails, the "Window" that displays the current selected email (if you allow previewing), can have stuff run off the screen so you have to select one to scroll in it.

Again, in the Live Mail program the top left tab (that doesn't have a name but has a little "pieceofmail" icon, you should get a dropdown list that includes "Export" where you can export any or all mail. I haven't looked recently but the options included export as .eml or .csv the last time I got into it.

If you're using another PROGRAM to read your mail you'll need to tell us what it is for someone to offer anything useful.

With recent Windows Programs, Microsoft has claimed that all your "contacts" will be kept in a single folder and all Microsoft programs will be able to use any of the data from that folder. You should be able to put an address in a document or create mailing lists in Word using the address for anyone who's sent you an email = if you completed all of the data entries when you added their email address to your contacts.

The "advertising claim" has been that you can go to the folder at username\contacts and double click on any record to edit it for addy changes or to add more info. Depending on how you view stuff in Windows Explorer, you should be able to right-click in the right panel and get "New|contact," or click File|New|contact at the top, if you want to add something "from scratch." When you create a new contact there, the entry of data should be the same as if you did it in an email program that uses that set of contacts

I can't say that all email viewing programs can use that same contacts list, but you might be able to figure out where to find something similar somewhere else if you have a program that makes its own lists.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: wysiwyg
Date: 01 May 13 - 01:17 PM

I can NOT find how to add new or existing contacts to an existing group.

Or, how do I create a CSV file I can import?

~S~

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Joe Offer
Date: 29 Mar 13 - 08:50 PM

Surreysinger, what are you using to view this, that you have an 11-inch screen?
I think you'll be happiest if you use a browser and not an "app," and go to www.outlook.com.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: GUEST,surreysinger sans cookie
Date: 29 Mar 13 - 06:49 PM

Anybody know how to reduce the width of the wretched right hand box they've introduced? At the moment on my 11" screen on the netbook I can't read a whole line of anything ... it's a pain in the rear end!!

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 29 Mar 13 - 05:47 PM

Thanks, John. I got the basic gist.

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 29 Mar 13 - 05:37 PM

Steve G -

Recent Windows versions, and many antimalware programs, include "password vaults" where you can store your passwords and they'll be automatically provided when you connect to the site that requires them. Generally, the passwords are "encrypted" so they're reasonably safe from discovery. If your experience is limited, setting one up could be a little confusing.

If you use an AV program that has this feature you probably could find specific instructions at the provider's website.

Microsoft has "instructions" but what I've seen of them implies that they're written by "softies" with limited ability to communicate with real people. It might be worth taking a look anyway if logging in is enough of a problem.

There are also some separate "vault" programs with decent reputations. Some one here may be able to suggest one they've used(?).

Nearly all "email programs" require setting up an account in the program, and if they're properly setup login should be automatic when you open the program. "Outlook" has been the name of one such for at least 30 years, although it is assumed that your reference to that name meant "the new other Outlook" - i.e. Outlook.com - and you're using your browser for email. Some browsers may permit setting up automatic logins for specific web sites, but I haven't looked at that possibility.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 29 Mar 13 - 05:00 PM

The new Outlook is fine for me. I can't see anything missing that I used before. The only quibble I have is that on my computer I could go straight from Favourites to Hotmail emails without logging in.
Now I've got the extra arse of logging in every time, unless you know how to avoid this? BTW I'm technically incompetent!

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 29 Mar 13 - 03:06 PM

A new report (3 hours? ago from MSNBC) might be of interest to those using "free email" and who might consider a change between the several available.

This doesn't seem like anything major, and gmail users have probably already seen the "optional" new feature called the "compose window."

According to this report, the "option" will soon be mandatory.

Like it or not, Google's forcing the new Gmail compose window on you

FWIW

John

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: kendall
Date: 28 Mar 13 - 07:16 AM

I switched from gmail to hotmail because gmail was a pain in the ass. Now, I'm forced to use Outlook. I don't like change for change's sake. It seems like they just can't leave anything alone!

Anyway, I still have my yahoo email to fall back on.

Subject: RE: Tech: hotmail becomes outlook - groan
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 28 Mar 13 - 06:34 AM

There still seems to be some confusion about just what is happening to Hotmail/Outlook. One of the few older news reports (18 Feb) that might help clarify things for some people (posted elsewhere at mudcat) might bear repeating here:

Ding-dong, Hotmail's dead: All accounts switching to Outlook.com by summer
Wilson Rothman, NBC News

It's official: Outlook.com will fully replace Hotmail as Microsoft's webmail service. The company will begin to auto-update accounts, and hopes they will be fully migrated from Hotmail to Outlook.com by this summer.

The move was spurred by surprise growth in the Outlook.com mail service, which has amassed 60 million active users in just six months. Microsoft will also remove the "customer preview" label on the product, and launch a multimillion-dollar marketing campaign.

I know the first thing you're thinking: "Does this mean my Hotmail address will just go away?" No. It just means that when you go to hotmail.com, you will be re-routed to Outlook.com, and when you log in on the Web, you will get the Outlook.com experience. You can keep your @hotmail.com email address forever, but you can also use that account to create multiple new @outlook.com email addresses, too, if you so desire.

And let me tell you, you shouldn't wait for Microsoft to switch your old Hotmail service over to Outlook.com. I am an unabashed Hotmail hater, but who can forgive the original webmail service for being so far behind the times? Even when Microsoft spent millions on a "new Hotmail" ad campaign a scant two years ago, nobody was fooled: You still had to refresh the thing every time you wanted to know if you had mail.

Enter Outlook.com, which really can give Gmail a run for its money. It's a very smart service with a very streamlined design, tasteful social integration and auto organization features such as inbox "sweep" and scheduled cleanup. Because of this last bit, it's ideal for use either as a main email or as a "spam account," the kind you provide to online retailers and other data collectors.

(Switching your account over takes almost no effort: Just log into Hotmail then click Settings at the top right — you will see the option to convert to Outlook.)

Though Microsoft was pleased at the sudden growth of Outlook.com users, I grilled David Law, director of product management for Outlook.com, about how many of the 60 million users were just converts from Hotmail's existing 350 million or so accounts. My supposition is that this represents almost all of them, but while Law wouldn't tell me the number, he did say I would be surprised how many were totally fresh.

Law was forthcoming about a different statistic, one that demonstrates Microsoft's target: About one third of the current Outlook.com users are — or, at least, were — also Gmail users.

Outlook.com is a very welcome email option, and — when partnered with the company's SkyDrive cloud storage services — a sign that Microsoft may well regain some traction with consumers looking for reliable Web services.

One of its only obvious problems is that of branding: Because it's called "Outlook," many people (naturally) assume that it is some kind of Web client for managing any email account. It's not. It's a free service, like Gmail or Yahoo mail or, yes, Hotmail, that provides you with an email account. So don't go asking if you can create an Outlook.com account and then add your corporate email to it, because that's like asking if you can take Google Maps and stick Mapquest into it.

Wilson Rothman is the Technology & Science editor at NBC News Digital.

John