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help for people using partial capos

The Sandman 31 Mar 13 - 05:40 AM
The Sandman 31 Mar 13 - 05:49 PM
Midchuck 31 Mar 13 - 06:46 PM
The Sandman 01 Apr 13 - 12:48 PM
GUEST,Best Partial Capo 01 Apr 13 - 02:53 PM
GUEST,Gibsonboy 01 Apr 13 - 03:28 PM
The Sandman 01 Apr 13 - 04:05 PM
The Sandman 01 Apr 13 - 05:04 PM
Midchuck 01 Apr 13 - 07:50 PM
Richard Bridge 02 Apr 13 - 04:59 AM
The Sandman 02 Apr 13 - 03:50 PM
GUEST,Gibsonboy 02 Apr 13 - 04:43 PM
Richard Bridge 02 Apr 13 - 07:15 PM
PHJim 03 Apr 13 - 01:26 AM
Richard Bridge 03 Apr 13 - 02:22 AM
Continuity Jones 03 Apr 13 - 02:52 AM
The Sandman 03 Apr 13 - 05:10 AM
Richard Bridge 03 Apr 13 - 05:27 AM
Richard Bridge 03 Apr 13 - 06:28 AM
The Sandman 03 Apr 13 - 10:33 AM
Nick 03 Apr 13 - 02:20 PM
Richard Bridge 03 Apr 13 - 05:51 PM
The Sandman 03 Apr 13 - 08:25 PM
The Sandman 03 Apr 13 - 08:28 PM
Richard Bridge 04 Apr 13 - 01:23 AM
Continuity Jones 04 Apr 13 - 04:56 AM
The Sandman 04 Apr 13 - 08:36 AM
Richard Bridge 04 Apr 13 - 10:09 AM
evansakes 04 Apr 13 - 11:15 AM
The Sandman 04 Apr 13 - 12:43 PM
The Sandman 04 Apr 13 - 04:21 PM
Phil Cooper 05 Apr 13 - 04:21 PM
GUEST,John Orford 05 Apr 13 - 07:55 PM
GUEST,wrex 05 Apr 13 - 08:18 PM
GUEST,wrex 06 Apr 13 - 11:20 AM
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Subject: help for people using partial capos
From: The Sandman
Date: 31 Mar 13 - 05:40 AM

I use a shubb partial capo.
for standard Using c shape, f bar and g bar,also g 6 works.
if you are playing in dadgad with partial capo, equivalent as if you were in d [dropped whole tone] your relative minor based on 6, would be 5 string, fret 2 up from par capo fret and 3 string2 up from partial capo, to get back to dom 7 chord, there is dom 7 modal dyad [all first and sevenths]fret 6 string at 7, 5 string open, 4 string at 7, 1 string at 7.
The thing about partial capos, USING 543 is that the sound is similar to daDgad, but the shapes are different, i have found it also very good for playing in A, [if you are tuned down a whole tone this would be g major] as standard tuning using a g6 shape, all the bass runs you use in g major likewise they are are there for the subdominant chord for which you use a c shape, for the dominant chord, you can use a standard two finger d6 shape., or one finger as in dadgad
   playing blues on the second fret in E major is good too[ if you are tuned down a whole tone this would be d major], you cane get walking basses easily for the tonic and sub dom chords
the dominant seven is a little tricky , i miss out the one string, and make a shape on the 654string, b d#aab 65432, or if you are tuned down this would be a7 ac#gga, the sub chord is g6 shape, have fun.
playing blues in a major[or g if you are dropped a whole tone] is good too, g 6 shape, c shape, first string gives added 9. or c7 shape, c7 shape moved up two frets is good too for a different dominant sound, or use a d 6 shape, all strings open, apart from 3 string fretted, on 2 up from partial capo, plus if you wish 2 string on 5 fret, this 2 string can also be played open.
i have found the partial capo in dadgad equivalent,very useful for songs with a chord progression such as lovely joan, bushes and briars, battle of bosworth field, and for songs such as hopping in kent, game of all fours, using g6 c d6, as if in standard tuning. it seems like a good dual purpose tuning. Dick Miles, 31 march 2013


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Subject: RE: help for people using partial capos
From: The Sandman
Date: 31 Mar 13 - 05:49 PM

re


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Subject: RE: help for people using partial capos
From: Midchuck
Date: 31 Mar 13 - 06:46 PM

For playing in E (or F or G with a full capo on the 1st or 3rd fret, and the "DADGAD capo" two frets further up), I can use either the DADGAD "drone D," fretting only the G string at the 2nd fret above the capo, or the full normal D chord - but still having the advantage of getting the low bass string open. For the sub-dominant, I use the "Tony Rice G" formation - index and middle fingers on the 5 and 6 strings, ring and pinky on the first two. Since all the uncapoed strings are fretted, the chord works just as well as if you had a full capo. You get an acceptable A7 by fretting just the fourth string, second fret, and the first string at what would be the third fret but is the fifth since that string isn't capoed...

Clear as mud?

Peter


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Subject: RE: help for people using partial capos
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Apr 13 - 12:48 PM

intersting,thanks i make your last chord a7, by fretting 5 string second fret, and second string 5 th fret, ec#eaee, its actually a major,
your a 7 chord seems to be ebf#abe, did you mean, fretting fourth string 3 rd fret, which wouldbe ebg abe, an acceptable cross between e minor and a 7 which should work as you say for a7.


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Subject: RE: help for people using partial capos
From: GUEST,Best Partial Capo
Date: 01 Apr 13 - 02:53 PM

Hi Folks-
Thought you might like to know that you can get any configuration of partial capoing with the Mini SpiderCapo for Banjo.
I use one and teach with it. works fine.
-pete


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Subject: RE: help for people using partial capos
From: GUEST,Gibsonboy
Date: 01 Apr 13 - 03:28 PM

Partial Capo's should not be used too much, because, as with DADGAD everything can sound a bit the same. It is very difficult to get a full range of voicing, unless of course you are Pierre Bensussan. At the basic level it is easy to use open strings and sound good by not doing that much. However, at the other end, to get away from that modal sound you need to employ some very tricky stretches and spreads to mix up the voicings. Speaking personlly I would advise beginners to become really proficient in standard tuning, before setting off down the DADGAD road, it can be a bit of a cul de sac if you don't.


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Subject: RE: help for people using partial capos
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Apr 13 - 04:05 PM

I was suggesting using it as a dual tuning, read my posts , i explain how easy it is to use certain standard shapes and play in standard with partial capo as well as dadgad equivalent.it is not difficult to use g 6 shape c shape bar f bar g and play in standard, c7 shapes work.


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Subject: RE: help for people using partial capos
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Apr 13 - 05:04 PM

http://youtu.be/2QngQ2DfByIa partial capo guitar tutor, apologies for the poor electricty supply , blame esb ireland


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Subject: RE: help for people using partial capos
From: Midchuck
Date: 01 Apr 13 - 07:50 PM

GUEST Gibsonboy: That's exactly why I like the partial capo. I use standard tuning almost all the time. At one time in the past, I got into DADGAD to the point of carrying two guitars around some of the time, so I wouldn't have to retune. At this point, though, there are only a few songs that I really think sound better with the DADGAD sound - mostly Irish or fake Irish. And I like getting that sound with those songs, but not enough to haul two instruments, or retune during a song swap or a performance.

I have listened to some singers who used a whole lot of different tunings and spent have their set changing tunings. It gets old very quickly.

Peter


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Subject: RE: help for people using partial capos
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Apr 13 - 04:59 AM

I use a banjo capo to get mock drop D for a couple of songs, but the normal partial capo (fake dadgad) on quite a lot: I find it easy to hold the drone D chord (one finger like the equivalent in true dadgad) and play melodies below that - either in the major or the minor - on several songs.

I finger the G like a single drop D G of 020033 (except it's A with the capo on), and the A (except it's a B) is a thumby chord 709807.

I can't say I fully followed Dick's opening post. I can't find a way to play C shapes (making actually D) with the 022200 capo. Obvs the true G will then be a barre F (relative to the capo)and the G (true A) as above.

If you use a Scott tuning capo or a Third Hand there is an open G tuning available - capo 300033 but playing the tunes is tricky as sometimes you want to be behind the capo and the capo gets in the way. If there was one of the G capos that did 300033, rather than 300000 or 000003, or 330000(not much use) or 000033 that might work out as there would be nothing in front of the guitar fretboard in the middle.


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Subject: RE: help for people using partial capos
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Apr 13 - 03:50 PM

c shape using 3 fingers[ 5 string, 4 string 3 string] plus little finger on ist string 5th fret.or leave out the first string altogether, do not play it, i play it a lot because i like the chord c9
   the true g major, or an inversion of it, is the g6 shape that is like the normal g in standard but the little finger frets the second rather than the first string on the third fret beyond the partial capo.
the advantage of this particular g shape is that you can do lots of walking bass runs easily, i use the bar f/ g shape as well, walking basses can be used with c shape and the one fingered e shape[that is one finger on 3 rd string beyond the partial capo 2frets up


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Subject: RE: help for people using partial capos
From: GUEST,Gibsonboy
Date: 02 Apr 13 - 04:43 PM

Midchuck, I agree 100%, like you I do use a Partial Capo, for the fake DADGAD sound, but only sparingly then its impact is all the more greater than using it all the time. I'm not a great lover of artists who continually change their tunings, as for me the guitar needs to settle and constant changing of tensions tends to stop that. I watched several major artists swoping tunings and even though the guitar is OK when they start a song, quite often its slightly out by the end. Dougie MacLean and Jez Lowe good though they maybe, are both guilty of this. Added to which I object to paying high ticket prices to listen to them trying to tune up. Tune in your own time!


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Subject: RE: help for people using partial capos
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Apr 13 - 07:15 PM

?? Usual C - 332010. Fitteth not with partial capo.


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Subject: RE: help for people using partial capos
From: PHJim
Date: 03 Apr 13 - 01:26 AM

A regular Shubb capo applied from the treble side at the 2nd fret over the first five strings will give a "drop D" effect, although it's actually "drop E". The advantage over retuning to "drop D" is that all chord shapes remain the same as in standard tuning. The disadvantage is that the first two frets of the 6th string are almost impossible to use.


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Subject: RE: help for people using partial capos
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Apr 13 - 02:22 AM

I do that and fins I can usually get my thumb onto the F# if I need to for, for example a B major or B minor


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Subject: RE: help for people using partial capos
From: Continuity Jones
Date: 03 Apr 13 - 02:52 AM

This is an interesting thread. Does anyone have any experience with the Flexi-Capis or Third Hand capos? At the moment I just use a Shubb, over 4/5 or 6 strings.


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Subject: RE: help for people using partial capos
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Apr 13 - 05:10 AM

RICHARD. if you play all 6 strings it is a c9, ecegcd,, if you only play bottom five it is a cmajor chord, turn the 1 string into a g, by fretting at 5 with your little finger you have c major, ecegcg, it may not be c major a you have encountered it before , but it is a inversion of c major, c major contains the notes CEG


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Subject: RE: help for people using partial capos
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Apr 13 - 05:27 AM

If that is with the capo making EBEABE then the fingering will make ECEC (that bit's easy) but then fretting the B string to make C will put you sort of fingering round the capo? Is that what you mean (off to try it but it sounds tricky).

Jonesy - I have a Third Hand and find it very hard to get correctly and swiftly applied. I prefer the Scott tuning capo (same principle but little lego-like blocks that lock into place) which I modify by adding little rubber pads to the string-facing surfaces. I am trying to figure out the best way to increase the curvature on the bar round which the blocks rotate.


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Subject: RE: help for people using partial capos
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Apr 13 - 06:28 AM

That C will not finger. Or hardly. It works out as

3(thumb)
3 (thumb)
2 (capo)
5 (3rd finger barre)
5   (3rd finger barre)
5    (3rd finger barre)

Or you could use ring and little finger and leave the top string open.

NOT handy in a hurry harry!


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Subject: RE: help for people using partial capos
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Apr 13 - 10:33 AM

no,
6 string open, 5 string 3rd fret up from partial capo, 4 string 2nd fret up from partial capo,3rd string open, 2nd sring open, ist stringfret with pinky on 5th fret,partial capoon second fret.
6 string is laft open and not played or ring finger moves from 5 string 3 frets above partial, to 5 frts 6 string alternating basses.
1 string with pinky finger,2 string with index,4 string with middle, 5 and 6 string with ring


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Subject: RE: help for people using partial capos
From: Nick
Date: 03 Apr 13 - 02:20 PM

Perhaps just play a standard barre chord based on A at the third fret or is that silly?

Or play first finger on first fret above capo on 5th string, 'open' 4th string, 5th frets on 3 and 2, and leave 1st string open.

Or...

I can give you many other options that I'm sure you already know. Depends what sound you want.


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Subject: RE: help for people using partial capos
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Apr 13 - 05:51 PM

6 string open is E. I don't like C with root E.
5 string 3 up from partial is D - the 9th.
4th 2 up from partial is F#. WTF?
3rd open is not available - capo is on it at 2nd which is A
2nd open is B (what, in a C chord?)

Something is getting lost in translation here!


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Subject: RE: help for people using partial capos
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Apr 13 - 08:25 PM

the notes are e 6 string open [but not played, but which can also be fretted to make a nominal g fifth fret, 5 string 3 fret up from partial capo, which is nominal c, 4 th string 2 fret up from partial capo which is nominal e,3 string open which is nominal g, 2 nd string 3rd fret which is nominal c, this is a commomn c shape, however as you do not like the open top string which gives us a nominal c9, you can try first string fretting with 5 th fret with pinky finger, this gives you a nominal g note, that is a c major shape, however because of the partial capo, you are in fact playing a d chord.
when i am playing like this i am thinking as if i am in g major c major and d major ,
however i am really in a major, d major, and e major. now i am not a basher or strummer of the guitar but a finger picker, with finger picking it is not necesaary to play all the strings.
so i might pick just the middle four strings 5432 of the nominal c chord[which in fact is tonally d major] or if i want to play 6 string i move my finger from the fifth to the sixth[5 frt], and fret the first string on the fifth fret with my little finger, as i do not play all 6 strings at once this works.
i suppose it depends upon your style of playing what i advocate works for finger picking or even for advanced plectrun playing where the plectrum imitates finger style. it may not work if the player wanst to strum or whack all 6 strings together


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Subject: RE: help for people using partial capos
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Apr 13 - 08:28 PM

NICK, read carefully my posts i suugested that as another alternative, however it does not give you the opportnity for those lovely bass runs that the g6 shape does


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Subject: RE: help for people using partial capos
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Apr 13 - 01:23 AM

Right - if you are playing key of A, the bottom 4 strings of 6th you speak of for the A chord are

E
A
F#
A

But what are you then putting in on the B string? You really want the C# but it does not fall to hand.

And the E on the top string is right for the A chord.

It looks as if you are talking about the A chord and teh D chord at the same time.

Can you please state the actual notes or fret positions of the A chord (the one I use with the partial capo is 042255) and teh D chord (I've never found a good one) and the E chord (022400)?

And can you also please stop denigrating chord players by referring to them as "bashers or strummers"? The use of a different technique from yours does not make us inferior.


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Subject: RE: help for people using partial capos
From: Continuity Jones
Date: 04 Apr 13 - 04:56 AM

Thanks for the info re Scott tuning capo, I'll track one down.


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Subject: RE: help for people using partial capos
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Apr 13 - 08:36 AM

a major chord
6 string 5 th fret,5 string 2 frets up from partial capo, second string5 th fret, notes are ac#eaee, you can also use bar f shape at 5 th fret, the d chord make a c shape on 542 strings, your ring finger than come over and play 6 string fifth fret if desired,
little finger is added to play 1 string fifth fret, 5 tring is d, 4 string is f#,3 string is a, 2 string isd 1 string is a, this is a d major chord.
the same shape taken up 2 frets becomes e 7, with little finger with on 4 string, five up from capo, an open six string, e bass.
there is an e modal chord with one finger on 3 string 2 up from partial capo, which does for e major and because you are only using one finger,the ring, you can do a walking bass, open 6 string, 6 string 4 fret, 5 string open, 5 string 2 up from partial capo, using that bass run whch includes g # gives it a major feel if desired. IF YOU WISH TO INTERPRET IT AS A DENIGRATION THAT IS YOUR PERCEPTION, not mine


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Subject: RE: help for people using partial capos
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Apr 13 - 10:09 AM

The A (in a G shape) works - but I still prefer 042255.

The D is less practical - it gives a 4 or 5 bottom string D at 55403 - but then there is an open top E string and no finger available to fret it with! Or you could as you say aim for x54235 but I cannot get my thumb over for the A on the bottom E string and still have the top two strings clean.

Yes, the E diad is easy I use that all the time. And then there's the B that I mentioned.

You say calling someone a basher is not denigratory? Funny dictionary you have there.


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Subject: RE: help for people using partial capos
From: evansakes
Date: 04 Apr 13 - 11:15 AM

You can get more interesting variations using the partial (or butchered) capos at the fourth fret and playing in C or G (actual E or B).

It works pretty well with the capo covering top 5, middle 4 or 3 strings (either way round).

Also try tuning the guitar in DADGAD and then adding the partial capo at 2nd fret and playing in C...some interesting sounds become possible. Randall Williams is the master at this sort of thing. He uses Kyser capos which I personally don't care for much. They presumably pay him well though.

This video
is a bit of an eye-opener


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Subject: RE: help for people using partial capos
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Apr 13 - 12:43 PM

richard, i keep explaining for the d chord the ring finger alternates between 5 string and six string, played by thumb or picked out individually by a plectrum or thumb pick, you do not have to play the six string open at all, the fingering is 5 string ring, 4 string middle, 2 string index, 1st string pinky.
that is interesting twick folk thanks, i will investigate.


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Subject: RE: help for people using partial capos
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Apr 13 - 04:21 PM

twick folk, that is really cool, fourth fret, capo 543,great for playing g shapes and c shapes, it means you can play in b major, and have all those lovely g bass runs, the c 7 shape works well too, played up two frets higher and in normal c 7 position, interesting inversion for the dmajor chord, thanks a lot.
this is what mudcat should be about, thats brilliant


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Subject: RE: help for people using partial capos
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 05 Apr 13 - 04:21 PM

Check out Randal Williams. He does workshops on use of partial capos, I believe he has instructional videos as well.


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Subject: The Good Soldier Švejk
From: GUEST,John Orford
Date: 05 Apr 13 - 07:55 PM

What partial capos have to do with the good solder I can't think. The spelling Schweik is a German version that leads to a wrong pronunciation. The name was Švejk, the caron over the "S" giving it the "sh" sound and the whole roughly "Shvake". If you spell it the wrong way you have probably been reading a bad and mildly bowdlerised version - get the Švejk translation, which is both ruder and funnier.


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Subject: RE: help for people using partial capos
From: GUEST,wrex
Date: 05 Apr 13 - 08:18 PM

Guest John Orful - EH!!!!!!


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Subject: RE: help for people using partial capos
From: GUEST,wrex
Date: 06 Apr 13 - 11:20 AM

it's RandaLL


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