Lyr Req: Guy Fawkes: children's rhymes

Subject: Guy Fawkes: children's rhymes
From: Penny S.
Date: 05 Nov 99 - 07:15 AM

Alongside the common please to remember rhymes, there are some given in the Opie's Lore and Language of Schoolchildren, which I don't have. Has anyone access to any traditional rhymes for today?

Penny

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Guy Fawkes: children's rhymes
From: AndyG
Date: 05 Nov 99 - 07:29 AM

You could do worse than the Horrible Conspiracy pages for a starting point. There's evan a rhyme on the first page.

AndyG

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Guy Fawkes: children's rhymes
From: AndyG
Date: 05 Nov 99 - 07:32 AM

However it seems to be a very busy site today, for some reason :)
So here's the rhyme:

"Please to remember / The 5th November:
Gunpowder, Treason and Plot.
We know no reason / Why Gunpowder Treason
Should ever be forgot."

AndyG

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Guy Fawkes: children's rhymes
From: Wolfgang
Date: 05 Nov 99 - 07:38 AM

Chant of the Center for Fawkesian pursuits Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Guy Fawkes: children's rhymes
From: Penny S.
Date: 05 Nov 99 - 08:32 AM

Thanks Andy, I had been there. Wolfgang, I can't get in there, and one of the other sites is also filtered. I need to go to a cafe to try again.

Thanks, anyway.

Penny

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Guy Fawkes: children's rhymes
From: Jo Taylor
Date: 05 Nov 99 - 07:03 PM

Guy Fawkes came to the Houses of Parliament
With powder and tinder, for it was his intent
To blow up the Houses, the Houses of Parliament
Bow wow wow, bold Guy Fawkes and a bow wow wow

That one just popped out of the memory bank - might have been from "Singing Together" at Primary School...

Jo

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Guy Fawkes: children's rhymes
From: Margaret\W
Date: 06 Nov 99 - 03:37 AM

Penny

As children we used to carry a Guy Fawkes effigy round the village reciting the rhyme

'Gi's a penny for our lantern, And a penny for the guy, A penny for your soul And we'll pray for you forbye'

That was 30 years ago, and I haven't heard it recently in the village.

Margaret

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Guy Fawkes: children's rhymes
From: Penny S.
Date: 06 Nov 99 - 03:07 PM

Jo and Margaret, thank you. Jo, yours seems to be related to the Sussex one my parents half taught me (well, I half learned it).

Margaret, as I posted. I noticed the absence of penny for the guy collectors recently. I can't remember when I last saw any. I have a suspicion that this may be due to the growth of Trick or Treating.

Penny

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Guy Fawkes: children's rhymes
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 06 Nov 99 - 03:18 PM

Penny for the Guy is still around the East end of London, although it is worth giving the 'guy' a surreptitious kick in the leg, because nine times out of ten, it is just some scruffy kid with a mask on, and no way am I giving any amount of pennies for that!! Besides, it's just another form of begging, and that is something that really gets up my nose.....

LTS

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Guy Fawkes: children's rhymes
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 06 Nov 99 - 03:21 PM

Oh, another version of the rhyme, slightly more appropriate for these times, but a parody none the less, courtesy of the Kipper family:

Remember, remember the fifth of November, Gunpowder, treason and plot. There must be a reason to remember this season, But whatever is was, I forgot.

A great excuse to revive ancient fire festivals in honour of the only man to enter parliament with the right idea.....

LTS

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Guy Fawkes: children's rhymes
From: Penny S.
Date: 06 Nov 99 - 04:15 PM

Isn't it a shame we need a reason to go up a hill and light a great big fire and set off those better and better rockets? (I've just seen a glimpse of those at the Festival of Britain - not up to much.) Wouldn't it be nice to just do it when we felt like it? And I heard a programme this afternoon which pointed out that Bonfire Night was a pressure valve in which bad behaviour and social comment was "allowed", so that worse did not happen.

Penny

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Guy Fawkes: children's rhymes
From: Llanfair
Date: 07 Nov 99 - 04:08 PM

Penny, I'm really glad that people don't let off fireworks when they feel like it, I've just spent the last three evenings with a shaking labrador cross sitting on my knee.
Bonfire night USED to be just the fifth of November, now it lasts all weekend! Hwyl, Bron.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Guy Fawkes: children's rhymes
From: Penny S.
Date: 08 Nov 99 - 01:07 PM

Actually, I agree, Llanfair. I didn't mean all the time. And I was thinking more of organised displays. I'm surprised at how many people still have garden fireworks. It isn't fair on animals or small children, and they aren't safe. They're getting more expensive, and they aren't as effective as the display pieces. What I was thinking of was that the roots of this one have got mixed up with something unpleasant instead of the fire festival which it must have been to start with. It was Diwali this weekend, as well, which may have had something to do with the long spell of them. Diwali is closely connected with the Samhain fires, I understand.

Penny

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Guy Fawkes: children's rhymes
From: Llanfair
Date: 09 Nov 99 - 03:56 AM

Oh yes, they were talking about that on "The Archers" on Sunday. It,s unlikely that people would be celebrating Diwali here, as there are very few people from ethnic minorities in Mid-Wales, except the English, of course! (I'm joking, 40% ofthe population here are Welsh-speaking)
Benson, the scaredy-cat dog, has recovered now, and is helping Tess, the collie cross, see off the dustbin men from behind the front door as I am typing! Hwyl, Bron.

Subject: Lyr Add: GUY FAWKES
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 09 Nov 99 - 06:45 AM

Well, here's my two-penn'orth. It's a celebration of the fine old English custom of burning Roman Catholics. Actually, letting of fireworks is actually breaking the law in the UK: it contravenes the Explosives Act; this is why the Americans and other foreigners were ahead of us in the Space Race even before the War ...

This goes to the tune of The Drummer and the Cook, or any of the other hundreds of songs that sound the same.

I sing a doleful Tragedy, Guy Fawkes the Prince of Sinisters,
Who once blew up the House of Lords, our King and all his ministers.
At least, he would have blown them up, and we should ne'er forget him,
His Will was good to do the Deed, if only they'd have let him!
Chorus: Tow-row-row, tol-de-rol-de-riddy, tol-de-rol, tol-de-ray.

Now Guy Fawkes left from Southwark side, wishing the State was undone,
And crossing over Vauxhall Bridge, that way comed into London.
At least, he would have come that way to perpetrate his Guilt, Sir,
Just one thing prevented him: that Bridge had not been built , Sir!

Now, creeping through those dreary Vaults with his portable Gas-light, Sir,
He thought to touch the fatal Train at the witching-hour of Night, Sir.
At least, he would have used the Gas, but in this was prevented:
For Gas, you see, in Guy Fawkes' time had not been invented!

And when they caught him in the Act so very close the Crown's end,
They straightway sent to Bow Street for that brave old Runner Townsend.
At least, they would have sent for him, for Fear he is no starter at,
But Townsend wasn't living then, 'cause he wasn't born till arter that!

God bless her Gracious Majesty, also her royal Son, Sir,
And may he never get blown up when to the Throne he come, Sir.
But if he does, why, then he will, so prophesies my Song, Sir;
And if he don't, why, then he won't, and still I shan't be wrong, Sir!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Guy Fawkes: children's rhymes
From: Penny S.
Date: 09 Nov 99 - 02:47 PM

Well didn't I see a lot of lawbreaking in the streets the other day, with the police all standing by then?

Thanks for the words - look moe fun than some I've come across.

Penny

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Guy Fawkes: children's rhymes
From: Llanfair
Date: 09 Nov 99 - 05:11 PM

Well, Blow me!!!!! Someone else is having a firework party tonight!! Nov 9th!!! Guy Fawkes week is it, now!!!!Benson's gone all twitchy again, and my hens will go off lay. Humph!!!!!! Hwyl, Bron.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Guy Fawkes: children's rhymes
From: Micca
Date: 09 Nov 99 - 05:49 PM

Here in East London close to a large asian community we have had explosions every night(Diwali and Guy Fawkes) , including tonight, for 10 days. My other half is in bed with an very bad cold and does not like fireworks much anyway., and is not sleeping at night through coughing. So I'm thinking maybe we threw the wrong figures on the bonfire after all andtradition fine but this is ridiculous!! I Hope Bron's pets are OK, I sat a couple of Labs and a Siamese cat for 5 Nov once and it was very difficult, Bron are you near where the Red Kites are? if yes, you Jammy B,

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Guy Fawkes: children's rhymes
From:
Date: 10 Nov 99 - 12:22 AM

When was Guido Faux turned into Guy Fawkes?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Guy Fawkes: children's rhymes
From: Llanfair
Date: 10 Nov 99 - 03:09 AM

Yes, Micca, and I've seen them, and heard them over the town. Our friend next door works for the wildlife trust and tells me they are doing very well, provided the farmers don't start shooting them again!! Hwyl, Bron.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Guy Fawkes: children's rhymes
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 10 Nov 99 - 03:25 AM

I realised last night when I got home I'd missed out the penultimate verse - here it is:

Now Guy Fawkes he is dead and gone, but we shall long remember,
For Boys still burn him once a year in dark and drear November.
At least, they burn his effigy, for the truth is strong and steady:
Guy, alas, they cannot burn, for he is dead already!

As for Guido Faux becoming Guy Fawkes, the English are only continuing a long Classical tradition: Joshua and his mother Miriam are better known by their Roman Latinised names of Jesus and Mary.

We learn soemthing new every day on the Mudcat!!

Steve

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Guy Fawkes: children's rhymes
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 23 Oct 02 - 08:46 PM

Actually Guido was an assumed name Fawkes used while trying to get support for the plotters in Spain.
He was baptised guy in York

to read more go here....
http://www.bcpl.net/~cbladey/guy/html/mainz.html

Even a few songs and chants there too!
Enjoy!
Conrad

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Guy Fawkes: children's rhymes
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 24 Oct 02 - 04:40 AM

Isn't it fantastic that in Britain we can remember, at such a long time remove, the last man to enter the Houses of Parliament with a clear and honest intent!

Nigel

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Guy Fawkes: children's rhymes
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 03 Nov 02 - 10:26 AM

Hey these rhymes are not only for children!
They are also known as Bonfire Prayers in Lewes Sussex
here is the largest collection of them in the world enjoy.

http://www.bcpl.net/%7Ecbladey/guy/html/verse.html

Conrad

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Guy Fawkes: children's rhymes
From: Mr Red
Date: 03 Nov 02 - 10:41 AM

I have put one of my songs called "Coughton Conspiracy" which is about Guy fawkes pricipally. Try cresby.com and look for muy songs. There is text, fancy pdf and an mp3 snatch to give an idea of the tune.
Let me know if you find it usefule. - Anybody.

So what is the Fawkast for this parliament?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Guy Fawkes: children's rhymes
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 19 Sep 07 - 08:31 PM

anyone have the kipper family lyrics referred to above

Remember, remember the fifth of November, Gunpowder, treason and plot. There must be a reason to remember this season, But whatever is was, I forgot.

is there more...what recording....etc...

Many thanks!

Conrad

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Guy Fawkes: children's rhymes
From: Peace
Date: 19 Sep 07 - 08:40 PM

REMEMBER, REMEMBER THE FIFTH OF NOVEMBER

(Traditional English Rhyme - 17th Century)

Remember, remember the fifth of November
Gunpowder, treason and plot
I see no reason why gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot

Guy Fawkes, Guy Fawkes, 'twas his intent
To blow up the King and the Parliament
Three score barrels of powder below
Poor old England to overthrow
By God's providence he was catched
With a dark lantern and burning match
Holloa boys, holloa boys
God save the King!
Hip hip hooray!
Hip hip hooray!

A penny loaf to feed ol' Pope
A farthing cheese to choke him
A pint of beer to rinse it down
A faggot of sticks to burn him
Burn him in a tub of tar
Burn him like a blazing star
Burn his body from his head
Then we'll say ol' Pope is dead.
Hip hip hooray!
Hip hip hooray!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Guy Fawkes: children's rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 19 Sep 07 - 09:30 PM

I wonder if the Guy Fawkes rhymes are one source for the "build a bonfire" and "glory glory hallelujah" {burn the teacher or other school personnel} children's taunting rhymes.

I'm going to take the liberty to post an example of "build a bonfire" rhyme from a Mudcat thread:

Subject: RE: anti-school songs
From: Paul Burke - PM
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 03:23 AM

Build a bonfire out of schoolbooks,
Put the teacher on the top,
Put the prefects in the middle
And we'll burn the bloody lot.


-snip-

Thus far, I've only collected three "build a bonfire" children's rhymes {this one and another posted on Mudcat and one posted on the Annex}. I verified that the posters of the other two "build a bonfire" examples are from the United Kingdom. Given Paul Burke's use of the word "prefects" and the adjective "bloody", I believe that Paul Burke is also from the Uk. Is this right?

I'm interested in knowing if this rhyme is familiar to other people from the UK? Is it still recited nowadays? Also, do any people from the USA, Canada, Australia, and other nations remember reciting this rhyme?

**

There are also references to burning school personnel in some "Glory Glory Hallelujah" parodies. Here's one example:

Here is the version we sang when I was a kid in the 80's. Mine eyes have seen the glory of the burning of the school We have tortured all the teachers We have broken all the rules We have barbequed the janitor We've hung the principle Our truth is marching on Glory, Glory hallelujah Teacher hit me with a ruler met her at the door with a loaded 44 And she ain't my teacher no more.
-D. Jones. http://www.cocojams.com/taunting_rhymes.htm ; 3/2006

**

It's true that these two children's rhymes have nothing to do with Guy Fawkes but they definitely have something to do with bonfires. So my connecting them may not be that big of a stretch...

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Guy Fawkes: children's rhymes
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 20 Sep 07 - 05:37 AM

Azizi - I've never noticed any relationship between the Guy Fawkes rhyme and the Build A Bonfire one. The tunes are totally different and usage never overlapped.
Remember, Remember... was strictly associated with Bonfire Night (5 November) and the Gunpowder Plot.
Build a bonfire... tended to belong to the community singing of the school bus trip on a day out, along with other songs which only ever seemed to appear when sitting on the back seat of the bus.
Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Guy Fawkes: children's rhymes
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 20 Sep 07 - 08:39 AM

No mention of Guy Fawkes, but Harry Boardman (the gods be good to him) and the Oldham Tinkers used to sing 'The Cob-Coalin' Song' which I think was about a childrens' custom of collecting for Bonfire Night :

Chorus

We've come a-cob-a-coalin', cob-a-coalin' cob-a-coalin'
We've come a-cob-a-coalin' for Bonfeyer Neet.

Down in the cellar there's plenty of bugs
They've etten me stockin's an' brossen (broken) me clogs.
We's't tek a sharp knife an' we's't cut their yeds off
An''ave a grand supper of bugs yeds an' broth.

Down in the cellar there' an old umberella
An' down in the cellar there's an old pepperpot.
Pepperpot, pepperpot, mornin' til neet-
If you'll give nowt, we'll tek nowt, farewell and goodneet.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Guy Fawkes: children's rhymes
From: Azizi
Date: 20 Sep 07 - 10:32 AM

Thanks, Geoff the Duck, for that information.

I guess the only thing the Guy Fawkes song and the "build a bonfire" rhyme have in common is the bonfire reference and the fact that both feature attacks on authority figures.

Fwiw, here's a Mudcat thread on "back of the bus songs":

thread.cfm?threadid=36629#1383660

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Guy Fawkes: children's rhymes
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 20 Sep 07 - 02:24 PM

unfortunately no connection between the rhyme and the seventeenth century sources yet....it sort of starts building but never really materializes....remember oft rhymed with november as I remember the first reference is mid 18th century....some day I will get a conclusive answer. As for now I think it is not 17th century.

Bonfires started early but were used for most all ceremonial occasions.....good way to get warmth and light out of the establishment. In exchange for bonfire the wealthy could get around the law. It kept a sort of balance....I would not link generic bonfire songs to fawkes however they do turn up at bonfire events.....

CB