Public Domain? prefix

Subject: Public Domain? prefix
From: Alice
Date: 05 Nov 99 - 11:37 AM

Since I have been searching lately to see whether some songs being requested from me are really by unknown authors, I began to think it would be helpful to have a prefix here for threads searching on whether a song is in the public domain. For those of us who are performing and publishing what we think is traditional music or our adptation of a traditional song, it would be good to know whether there is a 'known author' and whether the song is in the public domain. Who would have thought when I asked about Spancilhill that there really was the complete story about Michael Considine that Robbie McMahon provided? With so many recorded and published products with the non-original Spancilhill lyrics, it seemed to everyone that the song was an old trad song.

I think it was a real sroke of luck that Frank McGrath was reading the Mudcat and made the connection, but I am wondering how many other songs have a copyright or at least a known origin that many of us assume are traditional old songs.

I'm sure there are more "stories" behind the lyrics of songs that many of us think are lost stories, and just maybe someone who enters the Mudcat could provide the answer. This would be helpful to writers who are concerned about their own lyrics being preserved with their name as well as performers knowing whether or not the songs they are singing are in the public domain.

So, my first query about whether there is a known author is for "Kitty of Coleraine". It's from county Derry. "Oh, Barney McCleary, you're sent as a plague..." Anyone have any idea how old this song is? My printed source does not provide an author. I'll start a thread with that query and the title if no one provides it here.

alice

Subject: RE: Public Domain? prefix
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 05 Nov 99 - 12:28 PM

Alice- Sadly, there's no way of knowing whether most songs are PD or not. In theory, anything that can be demonstrated to have been printed prior to 1900 is PD, but that doesn't stop Pete Seeger from copyrighting Cindy, or Peter Kennedy from copyrighting Greensleeves or Oscar Brand from copyrighting Yankee Doodle. You could probably defeat any of these in court if you were willing and able to take them to court .

Subject: RE: Public Domain? prefix
From: Metchosin
Date: 05 Nov 99 - 01:56 PM

All this s**t thats coming down in Round 2 has Buffalo Springfielded me back to the 60's. Anyway here's my rant, but I didn't know exactly which thread to put it under. I was so excited about finding this site after months in the ethernet wasteland, that I've been high for a couple of weeks. God, finally a place where where the people were erudite, had a sense of humor, were discussing subjects that I could relate to and were doing something for posterity that I could really support. I'd finally found my way back home and I'm really pissed off and upset that corporate greed and legal beagle ambulance chasers could take it away. Your right Dick, just look at what Paul Simon did to Bert Jansch and the lyrics to Scarborough Fair. Since it all boils down to money and greed, why not offer them their percentage on royalties from the "profits" of the DT and the Mudcat, seeing thats what they're really after, and if there are no profits? Well blow me! You could run that by your lawyer, and do get one, preferably one who's also a musician. Oh yeah, I have sent in a small donation to the "fund" and put my money where my moth is.

Subject: RE: Public Domain? prefix
From: Micca
Date: 05 Nov 99 - 02:24 PM

Alice re-Kitty of Coleraine there is a reference to it, by name, in Rudyard Kiplings "Stalky and Co" in the chapter called "The Moral Reformers" published at or about the turn of the century.My copy says pocket edition 1908 but I'm sure it was first published before 1900.

Subject: RE: Public Domain? prefix
From: Alice
Date: 05 Nov 99 - 02:45 PM

Thanks, Micca.